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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand.

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542 posts found
  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 5:57:02 PM#41
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by bcbully

 

Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.

  

Well I personally like pvp but I can EASILY (didn't you just make a post on critical thinking and that a good amount of people can't do it?) see why people don't like some pvp'ers.

I'm not talking about "some pvp'ers" I'm talking about in general. I wondered for years. The reasons I gave are the ones I've come up with. Please tell me if there are more lol. I swear I'm trying. 

 

A previous poster said something about time. I thought to myself, "Ok." Then I thought back on my 8 years of mmorpg'n and couldn't think of a time where I lost more than a few minutes, and even then, did I really lose them?

it's all about the hostile dismissive attitude of some coupled with a need to work out their own anger.

I can't tell you how many times in Lineage 2 some asshole took the chance to waste an entire noob village only to eventually be shut down and then cry about it.

I seem to remember a few times being pk'ed only to find my pk'er and exact retribution and then get the hate whispers and the crying.

Or the time we had a great bit of pvp (went on for a while) in the Cemetary outside of Aden and everyone on both sides was in pretty good spirits. We got to talking to one of the enemy and he was so good natured about the whole thing we decided to rez him. Only to have some guy come over and ask us what we were doing. We explained and he responded with "that's so f'kin carebear.

How about the time I was in tera only to see two people ganging up on a lower level player. I joined in, killed one of them as their victim found "shelter" and then the other, instead of facing me (one level above me mind you) ran. He ran like a sissy. and then gloated about it.

Unfortunately the pvp community is polluted with cowards, psychopaths, a##holes, rude little children (of a variety of ages) who don't know when to stop. I remember one guy who was just a plain sh&t. I was talking to some people who knew him in real life and essentially he really was  an unwashed, cranky, bitter Assh*le in real life.

People don't want to deal with that stuff. They just want to log in and have fun. Not make it an evening of dealing with those weren't hugged enough or can't express themselves in any postiive way. I can easily see why some people don't want to pay money and spend time dealing with others' issues.

I suspect that's why arena pvp is so popular. You get equal sides of people who are more or less geard the same and who don't speak with the other side so it's all about that one moment of pvp. I suspect that a good many people who love arena pvp don't like ffa pvp because all those barriers to all that piss poor behavior are gone.

and it's a shame becuase ffa pvp can be some of the best pvp around.

Probably why I liked EvilSeed so much. He pk'ed everyone but wasn't a sh*t about it.

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 670

6/26/13 6:01:29 PM#42
Originally posted by illorion 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

Aren't Xysom, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Mortal Online, and Warhammer Online all PvP focused and some of those completely PvP focused with little to no PvE content?

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  GrumpyHobbit

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 32

6/26/13 6:05:55 PM#43

I love PvP.

But in almost every MMO I have played to date without strict rules you do not actually get PvP. What you get is a one sided fight where you face little to no chance of winning due to an imbalance of levels or gear or numbers.

PvP to me is about the competition between 2 people or 2 groups of people where the outcome of the battle is determined by skill. Take away the ability for skill to win a fight or where the outcome is already determined before the fight because of the imbalance of gear, levels or numbers and it no longer serves it's purpose.

The ONLY time where I don't mind is when the reason for the PvP has RP behind it. The problem is, the vast majority of people who see PvP think that they MUST PvP rather than they CAN.

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5260

6/26/13 6:06:26 PM#44
Originally posted by illorion

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

You got several issues conflated issues there. There very few PvE games that have any difficulty. The PvE people want those too. There are very few MMOs that aren't just crap right out of the gate PvP or not. It's not all roses for the PvE people like you're implying there.

Originally posted by Electro057

Aren't Xysom, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Mortal Online, and Warhammer Online all PvP focused and some of those completely PvP focused with little to no PvE content?

 

The problem there is Shadowbane, broken as it was in many ways, is gone and the rest just suck. Now Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot, and Ultima Online you might make a case for but they're old and beyond updating.

 

 

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8332

 
OP  6/26/13 6:07:06 PM#45
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by bcbully

I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works. 

 

I have two separate explanations for you.  One in general and one referring to the point you make above.

 

The first and simplest is that due to base human nature and existing game design, PvP ends up taking away immersion from the world more often than it adds immersion.  PvP adds immersion because it is realistic that anyone you meet CAN attack you and kill you.  This "potential" adds immersion.  Unfortunately, it rarely stays as potential. The fact that almost everyone you ever DOES attack and try to kill you - usually for no reason whatsoever - completely ruins immersion.  The world simply isn't full psychopaths our to kill everyone they meet for the pleasure of it.   Give an FFA PvP game where killing someone has an automatic 50% chance of "being caught" and having spend a month in the game's "prison" or unable to play and you'll create a more realistic world where "everyone CAN kill you, but most WON'T"

 

That's the general explanation, it ruins immersion.  This really applies only to "non-consensual" as it's recently been called PvP.   If you walk into a fighting arena or onto a war battlefield to fight, you certainly expect to be fought - in any world.

 

Now onto your "pinnacle of multiplayer gaming".   To me, the pinnacle of MMO gaming is collaboration.  

 

Let me give you this RL example.  You are in a room with another person.  You've never met.  You don't know anything about them.  Not their skills, nor personality, not what language they speak, nothing.     What do you think is easiest to hardest to accomplish:

1.  get into a fight with this person

2.  build a house with this person

3.  fend off a bear attack in cooperation with this person

 

Getting into a fight with someone for no reason is the most primal and basic way of relating to them.  All you need is your fists and off you go swinging.  Now if you need to build a house or fight a bear together, you need to communicate with them, to complement each others' skills, etc.   

 

Of course, if you follow this same logic, then the pinnacle of MMO gaming is cooperating with another person to build a house, while fending off a bear attack and fighting other people bent on stopping you from building that house.  This I fully agree with.  But then, when it comes to playing an RPG, i also want immersion, so unless those "other people" are willing to play by the same immersion rules as me (fight only with good reason when all else fails), then i'd rather just build houses and fend off bears.

Thank you. Great post. I agree with everything you've said. 

 

I play Wushu, I don't play DF:UW. There are laws in Wushu. If you break them you will eventually be punished. 5 hours in jail a couple times keeps that "potential" conflict potential more times than not.

 

Wushu is a FFA world with consensual pvp i.g. escorts, script stealing, guild wars ect. Non consensual pvp, in Wushu can carry heavy consequences. I was pk'd for the first time in a month yesterday. 

 

FFA doesn't have to me gankfest if the developer puts a little thought into it. 

 

 

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J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 6:07:13 PM#46
Originally posted by Electro057
Originally posted by illorion 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

Aren't Xysom, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Mortal Online, and Warhammer Online all PvP focused and some of those completely PvP focused with little to no PvE content?

If could put the word "decent" in huge neon letters right now I would. Have you ever actually played MO or Xysom or shadowbane... they are awful... just god awful. Darkfall is a decent game i just dont care too much for the run around in a circle left clicking like a crackhead thing. The combat is meh and the game itself is really buggy and messy...

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1576

6/26/13 6:08:12 PM#47

Losing sucks and winning isn't that great either.  I suspect that pro pvp players don't mind dying all the time...it starts to irritate me even if I'm winning more than I'm losing.

 

I do desire open world PvP as I've grown really really bored with safe no consequences MMO's.  Treat us like adults, we can handle it.  I simply hate PvP just for PvP's sake, like instanced battlegrounds PvP.  Give me a larger goal to work towards (battling to get to my open world non instanced house, battle me for materials for that house).

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 2191

6/26/13 6:08:50 PM#48

I don't hate pvp, I really enjoy pvp. I hate pvpers.

See while a good number of pvpers are good sports and fun to play with, there's the rest of the pvpers that just want to ruin everyone elses gameplay experience just because they can.

They destroy communities, they whine incessantly on forums about which class is currently beating them more easily than they feel it should and therefore requires a nerf, they like to stop other people from playing the game in any respect (pvp included) just so they can act superior, and the worst thing about PvPers is that they don't actually want to pvp, they want to win.

It's very much like texting while driving. Everyone knows they shouldn't do it, and it is one of the most dangerous things you can do while driving for you and others . . . yet people still do it. There's always some group of jerkoffs that can't just agree that it's a bad idea and not do it. So laws have to be made in effort to stop stupid people from continuing to be stupid.

So when a new MMO comes out with PvP enabled, you KNOW it's extra douchey to kill people as they zone in because they're currently loading the area, but people will still do it. And they will keep doing it for hours, because for whatever reason, these people have no concept of excess. This happened in Age of Conan to the point where many people just rerolled to PvE servers.

You know how when you invite someone to try a game that they've never played before? Let's say Magic the Gathering. You have to play soft against them right? Because if they buy a starter deck and you bring out your tier 1 Legacy deck and smash them repeatedly into oblivion, they've not going to want to play anymore. Yeah, that's what PvPers do. They keep pissing people off (even other pvpers) to the point where a good portion of the online community just doesn't want to put up with it anymore.

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3675

6/26/13 6:08:55 PM#49
It really depends on the game....TOo often PVP is set up to where it is really unfair....Most PVPers have a bully mentally where they will only fight other players that have no chance against them.....ALso it is usually a total waste of time as you dont gain anything by it....It is also a reason why so many spends ridiculous money in cash shops and use hacks to gain unfair advantages....
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

6/26/13 6:10:54 PM#50

So like every thread so far about pvp this was never about why you don't like pvp this was really about why every mmo should be ffa pvp

We really needed another one for all of you to say the exact same things all over again.

  evilized

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 590

6/26/13 6:13:54 PM#51
Originally posted by Electro057
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Electro057
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by free2play
Nobody hates PvP. People don't like forced PvP. It's a shoddy way to throttle weak PvE content. Having to stop and entertain some jughead when all you logged in to do was chop some trees or farm some hides.

Why not beat the guy (or lose) and go about your business. You win some you lose some. YOu can even run, I'm sure there is another node right around the corner. 

Well in my experience the guy was a skull or ?? to me and killed me instantly, then kept doing it over and over and I was forced to log out and try again later or another day. And that sucks when I get home from work, have an hour or two to play...And I can't because some player that instakills me is getting his jollies. And a lot of the time you can't run away if they can pull you to them, move swiftly, teleport....Ect ect...And then there are games where if you join late like I did it's as if there are hunting groups out for new players (Darkfall.) And that pretty much gave me no incentive to keep playing.

On the other hand I love fighting with similar level players. But that rarely ever happens...It's usually me on my own in a big empty world surrounded by max level characters. And it blows chunks.

Those are bad games my friend.

 

The closet in my 8 years of mmo'ing I've come to what has happened to you, was when a rogue in RIFT was camping a lvl 20 zone. He killed me twice, then I snuck off and continued questing. It lasted a whole 4 minutes.

The same thing would happen most likely in Shadowbane, Xysom, and Mortal Online....If I was repeatedly ganked and corpse camped on games where PvP wasn't FFA and the core mechanic (WoW, Rift) then I can only assume that all FFA PvP games are like Darkfall. And that's why I dislike it really...I still play on PvP servers cause I love getting in fights with similar level folks and winning or losing, but most of the time....even on Rift which I'm playing free right now...It's just lvl 60s in groups killing me. And even if I spawn at the ressurection point they'll start killing me on it too. And I've had worse experiences with gankers...So that's what I don't like about PvP really. And in games where endgame is hunting new players....Like Darkfall, I can't see how you expect the playerbase to ever grow rather than shrink? 

 

it may surprise you to learn that for the most part in more pvp oriented games you are actually less likely to be messed with by "high levels" when you are a noob due to self policing.

 

in shadowbane we owned territories. our guild always had groups out at different spawns and if someone got attacked or saw a hostile group moving through we would all meet up and go kick the invaders around a bit then send them back to their bind points. it was relatively safe leveling in that game as long as you had a decent guild. darkfall is the same story. the alliance my clan is in owns a portion of the map and we always have pvp groups roaming around protecting the people leveling. if anybody gets messed with we all get together and go help out whoever is having problems.

 

you don't really get the level 80's camping level 10 zones. it isn't fun to stand there and 1 shot people and the people who do this are generally bad at pvp in general and fear any sort of confrontation with equal level players. you have to be responsible for yourself if you play on a pvp server / in a pvp game. if somebody is camping you, sneak away or call your friends to come help you out. pvp encourages group play and cooperation between people because it introduces a problem that players have to solve.

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 6:14:40 PM#52

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

You got several issues conflated issues there. There very few PvE games that have any difficulty. The PvE people want those too. There are very few MMOs that aren't just crap right out of the gate PvP or not. It's not all roses for the PvE people like you're implying there.

The issue is that in a massive multiplayer setting... why would a large group of people come together to do anything? It gonna be either to pvp... or to run a dungeon... thats it... you don't get 150 people together to gather mats and build a castle so everyone can just look at it forever... you build it to defend it. So the only purpose of Massive Multiplayer to non PvPers is raids... people to raid and run dungeons with... but if thats the case then why make an MMO... when a lobby game would serve the exact same purpose. 

The idea of an MMO with no PvP is just silly to me... what is the purpose... so you can watch other people play the same game you are?

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8332

 
OP  6/26/13 6:16:11 PM#53
Originally posted by Demalis

Ok help me out here is this irony, the op with the word bully in his name is asking why some people don't like pvp???

I am not sure if that would classify... But to answer your question, I play rpg's on my time, when I am level 15 getting harassed by three level capped players, it is affecting my game time. I all ways play on a pvp server, but think it is time to switch. Developers are not addressing the many down side effects of open world pvp, I likes the way dayz did the bandit skin.  If they could make pvp a little more meaningful and address the grieving factors then I could change my mind.

 

There is some real irony there lmao good eye. I'm 6'4' 260, and have been in maybe 3 fight my entire life, and I didnt start those. The name is the name of my first fantasy football team. We finished second, so I stayed with it. 

 

Kids laugh when I try to discipline them lol... Yeah though, the irony. My friends used to get a kick out the name. 

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J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 670

6/26/13 6:16:24 PM#54
Originally posted by illorion
If could put the word "decent" in huge neon letters right now I would. Have you ever actually played MO or Xysom or shadowbane... they are awful... just god awful. Darkfall is a decent game i just dont care too much for the run around in a circle left clicking like a crackhead thing. The combat is meh and the game itself is really buggy and messy...

Nah, I've never played anything in that list but Darkfall and it was sorta a horror show for me of getting hunted by mounted players on day 1...And I just kept dying and getting hunted over and over. And it was sorta like fox hunting, except I was the fox...And I'll admit I gave up after a week, but I had no idea what I was doing and I just kept dying and dying.....

Anyways I get your point, if Darkfall was the best game of the lot then I guess we should see if it's possible to make a good FFA Open World PvP game.

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  Zorgo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

6/26/13 6:18:46 PM#55
Originally posted by bcbully

It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  Is it because -

 

You lose a lot?

You can't get better?

It's scary?

To much adrenalin? 

It makes you angry?

PvP'rs are mean?

 

Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp" 

 

I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works. 

 

Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you do know the answer....

Some can't get better, so they get scared - raising their adrenaline, then become angry after losing - and then come to learn that a lot of the pvp'ers are just mean.

For some its all of the above, for some its some of the above and for some there may be just one of those things.

So I think you do understand.

Which of those is invalid? If you don't like the product, you shouldn't be forced to purchase it. If you don't like a sport, who forces you to play anyway? If you don't want to see a movie, why would you pay for the ticket?

You won't convince those that hate pvp that they need to adjust their emotions to 'like' it. I love baseball. Many don't. I don't worry about people who don't like baseball. I don't try to convince them that they're wrong . I am perfectly content that some don't enjoy the same game I do. 

Therefore, it doesn't matter to me whether people like pvp or not. They don't want to participate and I don't feel like forcing them to. Trying to understand why is like trying to figure out why Justin Bieber is popular but my favorite bands aren't. The reason is because people have different opinions. And that's OK.

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5260

6/26/13 6:20:56 PM#56
Originally posted by illorion

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

You got several issues conflated issues there. There very few PvE games that have any difficulty. The PvE people want those too. There are very few MMOs that aren't just crap right out of the gate PvP or not. It's not all roses for the PvE people like you're implying there.

The issue is that in a massive multiplayer setting... why would a large group of people come together to do anything? It gonna be either to pvp... or to run a dungeon... thats it... you don't get 150 people together to gather mats and build a castle so everyone can just look at it forever... you build it to defend it. So the only purpose of Massive Multiplayer to non PvPers is raids... people to raid and run dungeons with... but if thats the case then why make an MMO... when a lobby game would serve the exact same purpose. 

The idea of an MMO with no PvP is just silly to me... what is the purpose... so you can watch other people play the same game you are?

Maybe you get 150 people together to collect the mats to build a castle and fight a week long battle against a barbarian horde. Maybe then you have the ability to expand your kingdom. Maybe you're all fighting to put your emperor on the throne. There is a lot more possibilities to mass PvE than raids. Or there would be if designers weren't so recti-cranially inverted. Maybe some people enjoy that so much they don't have time for PvP.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2254

6/26/13 6:21:33 PM#57

I enjoy PvP a lot, especially the more open-ended forms of PvP, but I can also enjoy small-scale pvp (like arena) a lot when I have a group of friends over voice.

However, I do feel like I'm in for a break far earlier when going through PvP than when engaging in PvE.

PvP just plays much more to  the emotion of people than PvE and you inevitably run into cases where you get ganked into submissin by other players while you just wanted to do some gathering and don't have any friends around  to help you.

Or otherwiise you might just get frekking enough of the stressy asswholes on either sides (friendly and enemy) screaming about  what you need to do in their opinion..

The good thing then is to just take a few steps back, to wonder about what exactly was going on and to let all the emotions fly. PvP is in essence about how you deal with the emotions that are set free by the gameplay.

 

People who can't make those final steps of finding out  "What the hell happened with me in this fight?" or those who just think its becuase they failed in skill can often not make that jump, can't  let the emotions go free.

I can respect that, it's similar to taking people off sailing through heavy weather the first time: lots of emotions turns up when inevitably unpredicted situations become realitly. A few people people then usually manage to let go of their preconceptiosn and lose the emotion, while some others stay conflicted and a last category decides to stay behind next time.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  django-django

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 115

6/26/13 6:22:12 PM#58

I think though when players are getting quite immersed in the game the thought of PVP can be a bit too much to handle, not to mention getting upset at losing. I think the best to hone your skills though is to fight players who are better than you and accept the fact that you will lose every now and again. 

 

In my younger days when I was just starting out in PVP in World of Warcraft, it was mainly nerves that got the better of me, yeah sure players were also dicks about it, but they were also just behind a keyboard. This didn't really construe hate, rather a disliking towards PVP in general, but overtime I realized how silly it was getting so worked up over dying constantly in battlegrounds and arena matches. Just pick your virtual self up off the ground, dust off and fight back more and more.

 

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 670

6/26/13 6:23:57 PM#59
Originally posted by evilized

 

it may surprise you to learn that for the most part in more pvp oriented games you are actually less likely to be messed with by "high levels" when you are a noob due to self policing.

 

in shadowbane we owned territories. our guild always had groups out at different spawns and if someone got attacked or saw a hostile group moving through we would all meet up and go kick the invaders around a bit then send them back to their bind points. it was relatively safe leveling in that game as long as you had a decent guild. darkfall is the same story. the alliance my clan is in owns a portion of the map and we always have pvp groups roaming around protecting the people leveling. if anybody gets messed with we all get together and go help out whoever is having problems.

 

you don't really get the level 80's camping level 10 zones. it isn't fun to stand there and 1 shot people and the people who do this are generally bad at pvp in general and fear any sort of confrontation with equal level players. you have to be responsible for yourself if you play on a pvp server / in a pvp game. if somebody is camping you, sneak away or call your friends to come help you out. pvp encourages group play and cooperation between people because it introduces a problem that players have to solve.

Huh, I never really had an alliance or anything like that when I went into Darkfall, I sorta came in as a new player out of nowhere. It was one of my first MMOs to try that wasn't WoW and it didn't really leave a good impression. I just picked a random place to spawn and died over and over and over XD Maybe the next time I give a game like that a try I'll look for a group or something before playing. My assumption was like in EQ2 and WoW I could play and learn how to play as I went and find a group, but I basically got stomped into not caring near instantly. 

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  whisperwynd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1503

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

6/26/13 6:24:36 PM#60
Originally posted by illorion

 

 but if thats the case then why make an MMO... when a lobby game would serve the exact same purpose. 

The idea of an MMO with no PvP is just silly to me... what is the purpose... so you can watch other people play the same game you are?

 Conversely, why must you have PvP in a game when you can simply have a lobby game like LoL or WoT where you get all the PvP you want?

Some like being in a grand story sharing the game/story with other players, not having to shit kick them over a flag or a tower or even loot. What is the purpose of that since it'll be fought over eternally with no relevant goal.

 It's a two sided coin, simply accept the fact not everybody wants to be forced to PvP.

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