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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Character advancement

7 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8857

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/10/13 9:14:17 AM#1

I still dont understand how this hapened... Earlier MMOs ike EQ or DAoC in some sense developed systems to give people that sense of character advancement at max level, eq added AA and daoc added realmpoints.

 

why? Because players feel good when their characters get stronger...  But ever since WoW arived in 2004 this seems to be forgotten by he developers. Nowerdays you get to max level in mst MMOs and then your class stops developing any further and suddenly becoms very static. No more awesome moments of discovering new and awesome skills. 

Personally this is the part i dislike most about current day mmos, sure you can improve your gear ineffinately, but i am a firm beleiver that characters in MMOs should never stop improving, even if it takes monhs to get your next skillpoint or dvancement skill, it would still be a decent goal... 

 

This in combination with not havig a skilltree based mmo, is my biggest grasp with todays MMOs. 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

5/10/13 12:37:36 PM#2

As you gain experience, your character's level goes up. Getting all the way to the level cap means you made it to the end of the game. From there, you can continue gaining experience to get some little additional perks.

That's one way of looking at it. But the other way of looking at it is: As you gain experience, your character's level goes up. About 1/4 (?) of the way through the game, your character's level stops going up and you gain specific little perks instead of the normal level up benefits you're accustomed to. Getting all of the little perks means you made it to the end of the game.

Same exact system, just a different way of looking at it. The second model reveals what I don't particularly like about AA systems (or endgame in general). It takes the measurement you've been using to gauge your progression and does away with it partway through the game. (1/4 is just a guess. Some games have an impossibly long and rich endgame, others don't.) Levels serve a purpose. They let you know what your general power level is compared to other players and compared to challenges within the game. I'm not opposed to levelless games but I understand that that's what levels are for in a game that has levels. Saying "we're not going to use levels anymore" at an arbitrary point in the game takes that purpose away.

Now you're no longer a level 68 looking for 2 level 66-70 partners to go to the level 70 demon fortress, you're a level 80 with 5 points in Faster Casting, 5 points in Party Damage Aura, 5 points in Reduced Interruption, and 2 points in Increased Curse Duration looking for a [how do I know who I can party with?] to go to the [how do I know which area is an appropriate challenge?]. The game trains you to think of your character's potential as being distillable down to one number and then removes that number.

Endgame AA points aren't the only culprit; this is the same thing that happens with visible ilvl and GearScore and so on. I'm not sure there's any endgame system that satisfies me. I'd almost rather see the game end when you reach the level cap. DING, here's the last dungeon or whatever, and after that there's nothing. You reached the end of the game. I mean, that effectively happens anyway when you max out whatever the endgame progression is (whether it's gear based or AA points). Why not just use levels the whole way through instead of switching systems partway?

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2512

5/10/13 12:50:57 PM#3

Ah, yes, nothing quite like the classic "everything is WoWs fault" argument.

  filmoret

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 176

5/10/13 12:59:15 PM#4
Age of Wushu has solved your problem dude.  Aion might have what you want.  Everquest 2 I believe has what you want.  SWTOR has a legacy thing but I haven't looked at all the skills to see if they are worth it.  Battle of Immortals has what you want.  Just going by what you posted if you want RVR you gotta say so.  Oh yea I forgot about Shaiya.
  zwei2

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 337

5/10/13 2:58:55 PM#5
No way this is going to happen when nowadays games' selling point is 'END GAME STARTS FROM LEVEL 1!!!111!!ONE!!!"

The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1355

5/10/13 3:07:18 PM#6

Personally, I don't care about numeric advancement. At all. Yeah, now my character does 1365 DPS instead of 1246. So what? Getting cool abilities is much more fun, but it's as if gamers don't care about that.

I really liked how you got Elite skills from bosses in Guild Wars. Getting some of them actually felt like you accomplished something that matters gameplay wise, instead of getting a bigger number. IMO removing that element is the biggest screw up of GW2.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8857

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/10/13 3:19:15 PM#7

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Ah, yes, nothing quite like the classic "everything is WoWs fault" argument.

Originally posted by Scalpless

Personally, I don't care about numeric advancement. At all. Yeah, now my character does 1365 DPS instead of 1246. So what? Getting cool abilities is much more fun, but it's as if gamers don't care about that.

I really liked how you got Elite skills from bosses in Guild Wars. Getting some of them actually felt like you accomplished something that matters gameplay wise, instead of getting a bigger number. IMO removing that element is the biggest screw up of GW2.

Its not Wows fault... Because its not a fault, only a design decision greatly influenced by WoW of simplifying classes and making endgame progression totally gearbased. Ther is no way denying that fact.

 

And yes Scalpless, thats exactly the type of advancement i am talking about.  New skills and abbilities of just a higher dps number. 

 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)