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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » A true compromise on 30 day subscriptions.

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132 posts found
  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

5/10/13 6:46:09 AM#101

It's an interesting concept, but one that would take a fair bit of tweaking before actual implementation, as well as a lot (and I do mean a lot) of marketing to back it up. Still, it's a worthwhile conversation to have, if for no other reason than to help identify the precise strengths and weaknesses of the existing models, and thus allowing for more effective tweaking of payment systems over time.

The biggest hurdle aside from marketing would be figuring out how to manage the system effectively. It would take a lot of planning up front, and a considerable amount of customer service support, and that would cost a lot of extra money. Even if the transition from the traditional monthly payments didn't cause the company to lose any money directly, they would likely need to charge more to cover the additional costs, both up front and ongoing, that would certainly come with this kind of system.

In the end, it's an interesting conversation, but I don't see any big name company using it. It looks good on paper, but in practice, it would probably be more trouble than it's worth, and end up costing both the company and the consumer more money than the other options available. The main benefit I can see from the conversation, and it's a big benefit, is learning more about those other options so that more refined, streamlined systems can be designed down the road that follow the spirit of this idea while invoking more practical implementation.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4573

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 7:49:41 AM#102
Originally posted by laokoko

That is exactly how the asian market pays right?  They pay by the minute/hour.

The thing is you need to convince game studio to adapt this model.  Which many of them probably would be reluctant to use this model.  Since they probably make less money.

 

yea. due to internet cafes being the main source of access rather than the home computer, the models reflect inernet cafe practices.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7132

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/10/13 7:57:11 AM#103

The one true issue with the OP's suggestion is that it would benefit the gamer and not the shareholder or the VC investor.

And as we know, the gamer just isn't their priority.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/10/13 8:10:27 AM#104
Yeah the Asian market pays per online time.

The ops idea is slightly different, you use tokens to buy a days access, whether you play 8 hours or 1 hour that day is irrelevent.

In someways ops idea is simpler to implement. You pay for 30 days, every 24 hour period you don't play the game the deadline gets extended by a day. Mmos do this anyway when servers go down and what have you.

Think the first mmo to do this would see an increase in revenue. Also think it will make mmos cheaper to make, and lead to more innovative niche you can make a mmo that's a specialist in one or two areas, rather than having to be a jack of all trades and doing everything to keep people playing, as most people will only sub one mmo, and if they only sub one they want that one to cover all the things they like.

Combine with a purely cosmetic cash shop and I think its a winner for both developers and the majority of customers.

Only people who would loose out are the 10 hours a day content locusts, who at current are being subsidised by the casual players.
  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 363

5/10/13 8:15:39 AM#105
$15 a month is NOTHING... how can you people be so cheap?  One 2 hour movie equivalent or one person's dinner at a restaurant.. come on...
  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 363

5/10/13 8:20:04 AM#106
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by itgrowls

can see this going over well now

"in the middle of a raid. HEY what happened to bob?! Oh he'll be back in a minute he forgot to use his token before coming here. (bob clicks on token and tries to rejoin the raid but can't) BOB! NOOO!

Yeah this just wouldn't work.

 

A warning comes up on your screen telling you that you are nearing the end of your current session and 'click here' to use another token, allowing you continue uninterrupted play from within the game.

Next?

 

Just what we need... spam in the middle of playing a game about immersion...

  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 363

5/10/13 8:22:11 AM#107
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by silvermember

how is that different from a sub? 

The reason F2p and b2p exist is because a lot of players believe most MMO are not worth a sub. What you are suggesting is simply fixing a symptom of a much bigger problem. It still doesn't change the fact that I have to buy the game and keep paying money for it. The most important thing for me, is that if I don't feel playing I lose access to my character, while in other models I can still reasonably play with no issues.

Also your token model, sucks because that means people will feel the need to play in other to maximize their tokens, but I suppose that is more of a personal problem.

added: with your model, i still have to buy game+ pay sub or token+pay expansion. how it is any different from having to buy game+pay sub+ expansion? Ultimately, your suggestion doesn't really fix anything or offer any suggestions that will benefit the majority of MMORPG which is not the same as the population that post on forums like these. All it does is make people that stupidly think a sub AUTOMATICALLY makes a game better or people that have an irrational hatred of f2p, happy.

 

td;dr

You suggestion doesn't fix or even understand the reason sub games are not popular and it is simply most MMORPG are not worth their subs. 

Wrong!

 

The reason F2P and B2P exist is because we "know" subscription gaming is an antiquated proposition and a barrier to entry for anyone who plays other types of games.  Guys don't pay subscription for games like Super Mario Brothers, Quake, Call of Duty, Skyrim and any other type of single player game so why should a multiplayer game be any different?  Answer: their not, therefore MMO's ought to be going F2P or B2P to attract new players else you're competeing for the same failed and niche playerbase (the current MMO playerbase).

Umm, no.  There hasn't been a good MMO in nearly a decade.. just rehashes trying to cash in on WOW.  I won't play a game if it is "free" that is yet another wow ripoff...  Money isn't the issue.  Games sucking is.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/10/13 8:23:20 AM#108
No because what you do is
1 pay a sub as normal
2 every 24 period you don't play, the deadline gets extended by a day

Mmos do this anyway when servers go down.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/10/13 8:33:14 AM#109
Shadow
$15 a month is cheap. IF that mmo does everything you like doing and its the only mmo you play.

This ramps up the cost of mmos, as if a mmo wants a sub, it has to offer a bit of everything.

With ops proposal, you could play a mmo that specialises in pvp, say CU, then you could play say a crafting orientated pve sandbox, say a minecraft mmo, then you could play a mmo geared around running dungeons, say Neverwinter.

Now most people aren't going to pay $45 a month for all 3.

But if they were giving each one $5 they might like that a lot better than paying $15 a month to a generic jack of all trades mmo, e.g. wow.

Chuck in a cosmetic only cash shop.

These mmos could be more profitable, as
1 they cost less to make
2 some people will really like that 1 thing and pay $15 a month anyway
3 unlike f2p there won't be any freeloafers paying nothing but taking up server space
4 unlike f2p you won't scare people away with constant "buy this" annoyances
5 unlike traditional sub, you won't scare people away with "but will I get my moneys worth"
6 mmos will compete with each other for players time.
  Nephaerius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1453

5/10/13 8:34:16 AM#110
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

 Really like your idea as an alternative to the sub model OP.  Good thinking.  It's a bit more complex than other systems but it sounds like it would function well.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/10/13 8:36:20 AM#111
It doesn't need to be that complicated though, just extend the deadline automatically when you don't play, rather than mess about with spending tokens.
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1851

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/10/13 8:39:52 AM#112
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

that's basically how the asian system works.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13283

5/10/13 9:14:09 AM#113
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

it's basically an extended version of the asian model.

 

why not push it further, and charge 2 cents/hour. it's nearly the same thing, isnt it.

Charging by the hour is perhaps the natural extension of this, and it avoids the discreteness issues that the original post runs into.  But the hourly rate would be much higher than 2 cents per hour.  You'd need to calibrate it such that an average paying player pays something in the ballpark of $15/month, not so that someone who is online 24 hours per day pays $15/month.  So you'd charge something like 20 or 30 or 50 cents per hour.

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

5/10/13 9:19:19 AM#114
Originally posted by Quizzical

Charging by the hour is perhaps the natural extension of this, and it avoids the discreteness issues that the original post runs into.  But the hourly rate would be much higher than 2 cents per hour.  You'd need to calibrate it such that an average paying player pays something in the ballpark of $15/month, not so that someone who is online 24 hours per day pays $15/month.  So you'd charge something like 20 or 30 or 50 cents per hour.

exactly ...

This whole idea is good just for casuals and maybe avarage players.. but players like me, someone who plays 10+´hours each days I would have to pay 100? bucks per month or what? Cause the price is calibrated for casuals/avarage players

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13283

5/10/13 9:19:21 AM#115
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Such greedy companies that want to stay in business!  And developers who want to get their games funded!  And employees who want a paycheck!  And investors who want to make money, or at least not be guaranteed that they'll lose it!

If games couldn't charge more than 2 cents per hour, very few online games would ever be made.

-----

But it's not just game developers that are greedy.  Players are greedy, too.  Look how many replies this thread has saying something to the effect of, "They should give me everything much cheaper even if it means that they're going to unnecessarily lose money."

  Ujirik

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 457

5/10/13 9:19:26 AM#116
Honestly, I'd really like to play something with that payment model. It just sounds too convenient for the player and inconvenient for the publisher though. I can't imagine anybody actually using that payment model as it means less money from players which means less money for everybody else.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13283

5/10/13 9:22:43 AM#117
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

Good will in itself is a marketing tool, and a new payment model could very much paint someone as "the good guy" of MMOs if done right.

The people who love your company while you're giving everything away essentially for free will immediately turn on you as having betrayed them as soon as you try to make money off of your game.

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 968

5/10/13 9:22:58 AM#118

The vast majority of all 'subscriptions' in the world are done via timecards. Players purchase a card worth X amount of minutes. This gives them access to the game, and as they play, the time is used. This allows them to play a little (or as much) as they like. This is the single most common payment method in the world.

 

Now, people may think that this was never used in the west (it is predominantly used in the East). However, us old timers remember when this was 'normal'. The current monthly sub (with all the time you can use) was an evolution out of the prepaid timecard in our market.

 

The issue was once that cost per minute was so high, and availability was so low, that a flat fee seemed reasonable. However, now that people can realistically play for 20/30/40+ hours per week, and the cost is so cheap.. it makes sense to go back to the older payment method.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13283

5/10/13 9:24:30 AM#119
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

 

I would love to pay 2 cents an hour myself.  Even if you played 12 hours a day, you'd only end up paying $7.20 a month.

 

With this at least I wouldn't feel ripped off and would know it was going to actualy costs and development when it comes to my own personal use of their game/systems.

realistically it'd most likely be 5 cents/hour because they expect most players to be casual so they'll want to cash promarily on the casual playstyles. But that's speculation. more importantly, OP mentions "logging in" as step 2.

 

 

At five cents I'd just pass it by.  It would also be bad marketing and public relations for this market.  But as a whole all these ideas on improving the payment model are a welcome sight indeed.

Which is precisely the problem.  If you're unwilling to pay even a very modest amount for a game, then the only sensible thing for game companies to do is to completely ignore you, as they're never going to make money off of you anyway.

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1997

5/10/13 9:26:54 AM#120
Honestly even though I'm poor and would find it annoying to scrape up that much cash all at once I'd rather just buy a game outright for $200-ish, have no cash shop except for fluff items like clothing and then buy frequently released expansions , as long as those expansions were high quality.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

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