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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » A true compromise on 30 day subscriptions.

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132 posts found
  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1223

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 3:46:02 AM#61
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Thats not greed, that is reason. The op isnt suggesting any form of compromise, he is suggesting "how to make my mmo cheaper" with a new wrapper, which can just as easy be label'd greed.

More risks withing extra gain.

 

While at the same time P2P games are consistantly faltering.  There needs to be a new system if the payment model is to survive or even thrive.  Most who dislike it now do so because there are so many choices that cost less.  Then there are those who caught on to what their bills add up over the years.  This revelation hit my friend hard with City of Heroes.  All that money he spent on a game he was renting, not gone and lost forever to the ages.  It would be less devastating if you didn't feel ripped off and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars.

 

If anyone were to show their customers that they don't want to blatantly rip them off, I'm sure even these crowds will come back over and start playing again.  The whole thing about consumer good will is that it will tend to pay off much more than consistantly trying to milk people and rip them off over the years.  People are so burnt on most things, that a little show of good manners goes a long way.  If you take a look at the Neverwinter Facebook page when the game went offline due to stress, all you could see was people praising them for their quick responses and how they gave updates every 15 minutes on it's status.  

 

Good will in itself is a marketing tool, and a new payment model could very much paint someone as "the good guy" of MMOs if done right.

A new payment system like this isnt a bad thing per say but you DO have to be reasonable. They are taking extra risks so it really isnt unreasonable to have something in it for them which.. is the part the OP skips, he really is just wrapping making my mmo cheaper in a new wrapper.

so end up paying 20-30usd for the same 30 day worth of tokens isnt unreasonable. A a casual player still ends up playing for less and they still get something out of their risk.

 

 

It depends on how that is marketed and how the system actually is.  I wouldn't pay $20 for 30 24 hour tokens myself simply because I'll likely be losing out on 22 hours since I only play a few hours a day (if that).  If that's the point, then I'd prefer the $15 a month (that I currently boycott simply because I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in monthly fees since 1997 on all kinds of games).  As a casual player myself, I'd end up paying for more as I'd activate it every day just for a couple of hours.  It wouldn't be reasonable and it would be torn a new one on reddit and other places, with people making videos against it as well.  Then we'd all be wary of new payment models and future products will suffer from it.  It's almost like that whole DRM / cash shop thing what with one bad system ruins the thoughts of such by the majority for the future.

If the game simply gave a month of free play (as it is now) and then 720 hours of game time (that only expired when you played) for $20-25 then I might consider it and option.  But anything that is perceived as an increase in price is something that will be met with resistance.  So it wouldn't be a good business move to try such unless they had an amazing marketing team that could walk on water and speak words of sweet nectar.

 

Also there is the point in that, why should we expect to pay more for games when there are so many choices out there?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/21960-a-misconception-on-the-misconception-of-mmo-costs/

The whole issue that I think you're trying to point out is that MMOs are an expensive endeavor, and that investors want something that rips people off.  That only the big whales will be able to enter this market, and why would they if they couldn't blatantly take our money?  But that's starting to become archaic; the community is starting to wise up, and soon they will need to be on the defensive as to how they make their earning and to appease the great MMO community beast that is rising up.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

5/10/13 3:49:04 AM#62

So 30 logins...

 

Hello to 10 DC's in one day. Ouch.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4143

5/10/13 3:49:41 AM#63
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Robokapp

and eve is a tiny mmo, out there in a corner of the niche market. imagine a game like...WoW whre everyone logs in to click his '24 hours' subscription.

 

I would not call Eve a tiny mmo, its got around 500k users thats about the number that a good MMORPG sits at.. ignore wow for a second that is just a blip.. most good western MMORPGs usually sit around 300k to 500k..

well I was strictly speaking of EVE due to PLEX so in my statement it was basically "eve on one side, everyone else on the other side". at 22ish million MMORPG players, 500k is tiny. EVE itself is medium-sized (in a world where WoW is an abnormal giant and 'large' means 1mil+).

 

I was just pointing that the 'subscription coin' practive is very tiny...and if mainstreamed like OP is suggesting, the status quo might change dramatically.

yeah true true..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4680

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 3:57:29 AM#64
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Panthien

But effectively this idea would be cheaper for extreme cassual players but end up costing more for consistant players, which is very reasonable.

Is it ? think about it.

 

bulk purchases typically create bundle deals or other discounts.

 

I never found myself shopping and saw an add that said "buy 10, get 11th at double price".

 

increasing costs on your most loyal consumers, outside the drug (illegal) business, doesn't really exist.

Now this is a funny twist of words. Very creative and very flawed.

Its not buy 10 and get the 11th for double the price, it would be more like instead of paying 50 cents a day you'd pay 66cents-1usd using a time token card. Going by 66c per day, playing 21days would cost the same as a normal sub but if you play 22-30days a month is more expensive then a regular monthly fee.

So your monthly cost on your game would depend on your average days spent ( can make the equivelent for pay-per hour but the principle remains the same.)

Btw, telephone prepayed cards for instance work like this.

 

I was hoping you wouldn't notice...it crossed my mind as I was writing it but ... I was just testing you ? :)

 

well played, sir.

 

Now really, though, what effect will this have on the gameworld ?

 

first let me share an opinion that I've had since I started playing MMOs.

 

1) your monthly payment is fixed. might be lower for multiple months, but still it's fixed regardless of how much or little you spend online.

2) you can play anywhere from zero hours to all the hours in a month for that money.

so from 1 and 2 I conclude that 3) the true cost of your hourly gameplay goes down if you play more. right ? at 1 hour/month you pay $15/hour an at 100 hours/month you pay 0.15/hour. in terms of 'hours per dollar'.

 

Now this is meaningless, but if the hours themselves become taxed individually, I believe it'd have a big consequence on the ... let's call it 'persistent population' of the gameworld. "One more BG" will be replaced by "raid-logging" and the feeling of anger when your item didn't drop after a 45 minute dungeon or a game that was going well and sudenly went south and you lost might hurt extra.

 

EVE's PLEX encourages people to be online, farming, playing. taxing gameplay by short ammounts encourages ... efficient play, minmaxing which leads to fierce elitism, gear checks, community-enforced barriers to lesser players (new, bad, etc) and an overall sense of anxiety and pressur in terms of both speed and efficiency.

 

the spacebar for cutscenes, not reading quest text...will be nothing compared to the ammount of Go-Go-GO-GO-GOOOO that I feel this will lead to.

 

my feelings at least. That's why perhaps hourly would be bad but maybe 8-hour, 12-hour or 24-hour might be better. I'm alo hesitant to the 24-hour option because somewhere out there some guy will play all the 24 hours, be 20minutes short of some uber achievement, plug in one more, now he has to play it, die of exhaustion after the 20th energy drink. then the game gets blamed for it.

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:02:05 AM#65
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Thats not greed, that is reason. The op isnt suggesting any form of compromise, he is suggesting "how to make my mmo cheaper" with a new wrapper, which can just as easy be label'd greed.

More risks withing extra gain.

 

While at the same time P2P games are consistantly faltering.  There needs to be a new system if the payment model is to survive or even thrive.  Most who dislike it now do so because there are so many choices that cost less.  Then there are those who caught on to what their bills add up over the years.  This revelation hit my friend hard with City of Heroes.  All that money he spent on a game he was renting, not gone and lost forever to the ages.  It would be less devastating if you didn't feel ripped off and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars.

 

If anyone were to show their customers that they don't want to blatantly rip them off, I'm sure even these crowds will come back over and start playing again.  The whole thing about consumer good will is that it will tend to pay off much more than consistantly trying to milk people and rip them off over the years.  People are so burnt on most things, that a little show of good manners goes a long way.  If you take a look at the Neverwinter Facebook page when the game went offline due to stress, all you could see was people praising them for their quick responses and how they gave updates every 15 minutes on it's status.  

 

Good will in itself is a marketing tool, and a new payment model could very much paint someone as "the good guy" of MMOs if done right.

A new payment system like this isnt a bad thing per say but you DO have to be reasonable. They are taking extra risks so it really isnt unreasonable to have something in it for them which.. is the part the OP skips, he really is just wrapping making my mmo cheaper in a new wrapper.

so end up paying 20-30usd for the same 30 day worth of tokens isnt unreasonable. A a casual player still ends up playing for less and they still get something out of their risk.

 

 

It depends on how that is marketed and how the system actually is.  I wouldn't pay $20 for 30 24 hour tokens myself simply because I'll likely be losing out on 22 hours since I only play a few hours a day (if that).  If that's the point, then I'd prefer the $15 a month (that I currently boycott simply because I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in monthly fees since 1997 on all kinds of games).  As a casual player myself, I'd end up paying for more as I'd activate it every day just for a couple of hours.  It wouldn't be reasonable and it would be torn a new one on reddit and other places, with people making videos against it as well.  Then we'd all be wary of new payment models and future products will suffer from it.  It's almost like that whole DRM / cash shop thing what with one bad system ruins the thoughts of such by the majority for the future.

If the game simply gave a month of free play (as it is now) and then 720 hours of game time (that only expired when you played) for $20-25 then I might consider it and option.  But anything the is perceived as an increase in price is something that will be met with resistance.  So it wouldn't be a good business move to try such unless they had an amazing marketing team that could walk on water and speak words of sweet nectar.

Going by a pay per hour system would be subjected to the same principle. IF a company would impliment a system like this, they will probebly offer both pay per hour and monthly subs, depending on your hours played, pay per hour can be cheaper or more expensive, effectively giving benifid in these systems for both company and customer.

So for arguement sake, if you play upto 350 hours a month, the pay per hour system would be cheaper if you play beyone that its cheaper to go by monthly fee.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4680

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:06:19 AM#66

loosely topic-related but ... it seems that we've also begun going the same path the developers have been going, little by little.

 

here we are at 5am discussing not how to make them better but how to make them cheaper...

 

what is happening to us ? /scared

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:07:45 AM#67
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Panthien

But effectively this idea would be cheaper for extreme cassual players but end up costing more for consistant players, which is very reasonable.

Is it ? think about it.

 

bulk purchases typically create bundle deals or other discounts.

 

I never found myself shopping and saw an add that said "buy 10, get 11th at double price".

 

increasing costs on your most loyal consumers, outside the drug (illegal) business, doesn't really exist.

Now this is a funny twist of words. Very creative and very flawed.

Its not buy 10 and get the 11th for double the price, it would be more like instead of paying 50 cents a day you'd pay 66cents-1usd using a time token card. Going by 66c per day, playing 21days would cost the same as a normal sub but if you play 22-30days a month is more expensive then a regular monthly fee.

So your monthly cost on your game would depend on your average days spent ( can make the equivelent for pay-per hour but the principle remains the same.)

Btw, telephone prepayed cards for instance work like this.

 

I was hoping you wouldn't notice...it crossed my mind as I was writing it but ... I was just testing you ? :)

 

well played, sir.

 

Now really, though, what effect will this have on the gameworld ?

 

first let me share an opinion that I've had since I started playing MMOs.

 

1) your monthly payment is fixed. might be lower for multiple months, but still it's fixed regardless of how much or little you spend online.

2) you can play anywhere from zero hours to all the hours in a month for that money.

so from 1 and 2 I conclude that 3) the true cost of your hourly gameplay goes down if you play more. right ? at 1 hour/month you pay $15/hour an at 100 hours/month you pay 0.15/hour. in terms of 'hours per dollar'.

 

Now this is meaningless, but if the hours themselves become taxed individually, I believe it'd have a big consequence on the ... let's call it 'persistent population' of the gameworld. "One more BG" will be replaced by "raid-logging" and the feeling of anger when your item didn't drop after a 45 minute dungeon or a game that was going well and sudenly went south and you lost might hurt extra.

 

EVE's PLEX encourages people to be online, farming, playing. taxing gameplay by short ammounts encourages ... efficient play, minmaxing which leads to fierce elitism, gear checks, community-enforced barriers to lesser players (new, bad, etc) and an overall sense of anxiety and pressur in terms of both speed and efficiency.

 

the spacebar for cutscenes, not reading quest text...will be nothing compared to the ammount of Go-Go-GO-GO-GOOOO that I feel this will lead to.

 

my feelings at least. That's why perhaps hourly would be bad but maybe 8-hour, 12-hour or 24-hour might be better. I'm alo hesitant to the 24-hour option because somewhere out there some guy will play all the 24 hours, be 20minutes short of some uber achievement, plug in one more, now he has to play it, die of exhaustion after the 20th energy drink. then the game gets blamed for it.

Personally I think they would disable the option to skip cutscenes and text dialogs if they go by play per hour but you understand the principle.

It doesnt really matter what kind of time-frame unit is being made the principle remains the same and still would end up being mutually benificial if theres a benifid for both companies as well as customers to be able to pick to go monthy or pay-per-whatever-unit.

Knowing how human nature works.. if they scrape the monthly option entirely the average player still will end up paying more then they do now.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1223

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:17:43 AM#68
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

<snip>

 

It depends on how that is marketed and how the system actually is.  I wouldn't pay $20 for 30 24 hour tokens myself simply because I'll likely be losing out on 22 hours since I only play a few hours a day (if that).  If that's the point, then I'd prefer the $15 a month (that I currently boycott simply because I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in monthly fees since 1997 on all kinds of games).  As a casual player myself, I'd end up paying for more as I'd activate it every day just for a couple of hours.  It wouldn't be reasonable and it would be torn a new one on reddit and other places, with people making videos against it as well.  Then we'd all be wary of new payment models and future products will suffer from it.  It's almost like that whole DRM / cash shop thing what with one bad system ruins the thoughts of such by the majority for the future.

If the game simply gave a month of free play (as it is now) and then 720 hours of game time (that only expired when you played) for $20-25 then I might consider it and option.  But anything the is perceived as an increase in price is something that will be met with resistance.  So it wouldn't be a good business move to try such unless they had an amazing marketing team that could walk on water and speak words of sweet nectar.

Going by a pay per hour system would be subjected to the same principle. IF a company would impliment a system like this, they will probebly offer both pay per hour and monthly subs, depending on your hours played, pay per hour can be cheaper or more expensive, effectively giving benifid in these systems for both company and customer.

So for arguement sake, if you play upto 350 hours a month, the pay per hour system would be cheaper if you play beyone that its cheaper to go by monthly fee.

Here is what I edited in a little while ago in my last post:

Also there is the point in that, why should we expect to pay more for games when there are so many choices out there?

 

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/21960-a-misconception-on-the-misconception-of-mmo-costs/

The whole issue that I think you're trying to point out is that MMOs are an expensive endeavor, and that investors want something that rips people off.  That only the big whales will be able to enter this market, and why would they if they couldn't blatantly take our money?  But that's starting to become archaic; the community is starting to wise up, and soon they will need to be on the defensive as to how they make their earning and to appease the great MMO community beast that is rising up.

 

 

The prospects and reasons why this is happening need to be appeased.  Simply creating a new coat of paint for something will not solve the issues we're having.  People will still have access to other games, and new games will still be released with better and cheaper systems.  In the interest of perserving a monthly fee of any sort, one needs to look beyond the cash symbols in their eyes and look to the consumer.  The customer is always right, and those who only invest in this business with intent to rip of customers will soon need to get out if they don't understand how payment models are evolving.  

 

When you take a look at the future of this genre, and the future of gaming in general you need to consider many things.  One thing that we write off is the console fanbase.  Consoles for a MMO?  Haha!  That's not going to happen, right?  Except that it might.  The MMO has reached it's peak how it is now and with computer based players.  It needs new blood, and where better to get it from than the systems that  are starting to focus on social structures and internet connectivity.  In recent new we hear that the new generation games will have "free to play games" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EiXnqOUPEw ).  This should be alarming and an eye opener as to what implications this could have for all genres (especially since we'll have so much more online games, and with technology the line between MMO and Online game will be blurred as having 200+ people in one area may become the norm at one point).  

 

Add to that the fact that the PS4 has been confirmed to have these social aspects, internet games, having technology available whereby you could jump in and actually play the game for your friend (etc), we have a potentially powerful system and a host of new potential players.  What are these players used to?  Well, microtransactions (cash shops) and games that are Buy to Play.  Most are skeptical of MMOs simply because you have to rent the game you play.  I go into depth with this in my blog:  http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Yaevindusk/032013/24782_A-brief-analysis-of-MMOs-and-contextual-payment-plans-Why-World-of-Warcraft-may-want-The-Elders-Scrolls-to-go-P2P-update-2

 

We already see this happening with Defiance and Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn (a game that was remade and definitely needs to remake the cash with a subscription), and these are with ancient hardware and have nothing like the (very computer based) specs of the new generation of consoles.  We also had those rumors that the Xbox 720 will have always online requirements (which again are rumors, but one of their employees didn't see why that was a bad thing).

 

As a whole they could continue to try and rip people off or they can adapt to the situations at hand and take full well advantage of the future as it comes.  Technology is evolving, bandwidth costs are minimal and a new age is upon us.

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2943

5/10/13 4:23:12 AM#69

It's too late now for fancy subscription options :)

 

Game developers and publishers were "forced" to abandon subscription plans in favour of F2P Cash Shop funding.

 

Having discovered just how profitable F2P revenue models can be, these developers and publishers are going to be VERY reluctant to abandon them.

  Darengy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/13
Posts: 4

Cute buny cute

5/10/13 4:28:02 AM#70
What game are we talking about here? or is there a game that offers that?
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4680

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:29:01 AM#71
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

It's too late now for fancy subscription options :)

 

Game developers and publishers were "forced" to abandon subscription plans in favour of F2P Cash Shop funding.

 

Having discovered just how profitable F2P revenue models can be, these developers and publishers are going to be VERY reluctant to abandon them.

it's a bubble...it won't be here for long enough for a 'true f2p generation mmo' era to reach maturity. 

they may be reluctant but they'll have no choice. 

 

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4680

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:30:05 AM#72
Originally posted by Darengy
What game are we talking about here? or is there a game that offers that?

it's purely academic.

  Dogblaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

5/10/13 4:32:35 AM#73

your ideas makes me laught ... they are not bad but pls, if you dont like subscription, avoid p2p mmos.

I dont like many things but dont need to brag about them all the time. Its nothing personal against you but its already pretty lame seeing all these posts about subscriptions.

 

Just create your own company, develop mmo and then let us know .. dont try to make these super awesome ideas because it wont happen, not any time soon and not because of your post.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1223

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:36:30 AM#74
Originally posted by Dogblaster

your ideas makes me laught ... they are not bad but pls, if you dont like subscription, avoid p2p mmos.

I dont like many things but dont need to brag about them all the time. Its nothing personal against you but its already pretty lame seeing all these posts about subscriptions.

 

Not sure if this was really necessary.  This post was just expressing an idea, trying to move the payment model forward as opposed to what we've been stuck with for some time.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to say with the last bit, but ignoring facts as a whole is not the best way to avoid them.  New models are needed when thinking of the big picture as P2P is faltering and F2P has problems of its own.

If you want to read up on some of these problems, just read some of my previous posts on this thread.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Dogblaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

5/10/13 4:41:57 AM#75
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Dogblaster

your ideas makes me laught ... they are not bad but pls, if you dont like subscription, avoid p2p mmos.

I dont like many things but dont need to brag about them all the time. Its nothing personal against you but its already pretty lame seeing all these posts about subscriptions.

 

Not sure if this was really necessary.  This post was just expressing an idea, trying to move the payment model forward as opposed to what we've been stuck with for some time.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to say with the last bit, but ignoring facts as a whole is not the best way to avoid them.  New models are needed when thinking of the big picture as P2P is faltering and F2P has problems of its own.

If you want to read up on some of these problems, just read some of my previous posts on this thread.

For you and others they maybe are neded, but i am perfectly ok with current p2p model. Its not only applyed in mmos but for instant in my gym you have to pay one month/year and they dont care if you go 20 or 2 times. And yes some people would prefer one day passes but ye, they have to look for another one. I am jut kinda bored of reading these ideas and change request all the time :)

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1223

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:44:10 AM#76
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Dogblaster

your ideas makes me laught ... they are not bad but pls, if you dont like subscription, avoid p2p mmos.

I dont like many things but dont need to brag about them all the time. Its nothing personal against you but its already pretty lame seeing all these posts about subscriptions.

 

Not sure if this was really necessary.  This post was just expressing an idea, trying to move the payment model forward as opposed to what we've been stuck with for some time.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to say with the last bit, but ignoring facts as a whole is not the best way to avoid them.  New models are needed when thinking of the big picture as P2P is faltering and F2P has problems of its own.

If you want to read up on some of these problems, just read some of my previous posts on this thread.

For you they maybe are, but i am perfectly ok with current p2p model. Its not only applyed in mmos but for instant in my gym you have to pay one month/year and they dont care if you go 20 or 2 times. And yes some people would prefer one day passes but ye, they have to look for another one.

 

No, I'm not just speaking for me.  I'm talking business and common sense.  It's you who are just speaking for yourself, and who just came into a forum to laugh and imply the topic was stupid.  As I said, please read my other posts if you want some context on the matter as opposed to spouting out rhetoric.

 

The genre is changing, and they need to adapt.  Sometimes talking about ideas is the best way to go about this.  Even the next generation of consoles will support F2P games, have the capacity for hundreds of people in an online game, etc.  They won't even have the "MMO" tag with them.  Everything will be blurred, and we need to prepare for the future and the potential new bloods.  If we ignore those who come in, we will start to decay as an industry.

 

As for your edit, I'm sorry if you're tired of seeing posts like this.  Though you also mentioned that if people don't like something, they should just avoid it.  The same goes for here.

 

Sorry if I seem a little abrupt.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Storm_Cloud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 301

5/10/13 4:50:04 AM#77

Great idea!

As an example, SWTOR, that I quit subing to a while back, and rarely visit these days. If I can buy 30 tokens with the 24 hour rule for $15, I would be having more fun being able to use my old chars and experience the full game on those days when I decide to play.

I hope gaming companies take this into consideration.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7199

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/10/13 4:50:12 AM#78
Originally posted by silvermember

how is that different from a sub? 

The OP says very clearly how this is different from a standard sub.

The reason F2p and b2p exist is because a lot of players believe most MMO are not worth a sub.

But people find them fun enough to be worth their time? Get outta here...

This rationalisation, made to justify being too tight to pay for a hobby, is transparent for being what it is. It has just become the mantra of the freeloading section of the community because it somehow justifies in their own head riding on the backs of others.

 

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:50:41 AM#79
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

 

It depends on how that is marketed and how the system actually is.  I wouldn't pay $20 for 30 24 hour tokens myself simply because I'll likely be losing out on 22 hours since I only play a few hours a day (if that).  If that's the point, then I'd prefer the $15 a month (that I currently boycott simply because I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in monthly fees since 1997 on all kinds of games).  As a casual player myself, I'd end up paying for more as I'd activate it every day just for a couple of hours.  It wouldn't be reasonable and it would be torn a new one on reddit and other places, with people making videos against it as well.  Then we'd all be wary of new payment models and future products will suffer from it.  It's almost like that whole DRM / cash shop thing what with one bad system ruins the thoughts of such by the majority for the future.

If the game simply gave a month of free play (as it is now) and then 720 hours of game time (that only expired when you played) for $20-25 then I might consider it and option.  But anything the is perceived as an increase in price is something that will be met with resistance.  So it wouldn't be a good business move to try such unless they had an amazing marketing team that could walk on water and speak words of sweet nectar.

Going by a pay per hour system would be subjected to the same principle. IF a company would impliment a system like this, they will probebly offer both pay per hour and monthly subs, depending on your hours played, pay per hour can be cheaper or more expensive, effectively giving benifid in these systems for both company and customer.

So for arguement sake, if you play upto 350 hours a month, the pay per hour system would be cheaper if you play beyone that its cheaper to go by monthly fee.

Here is what I edited in a little while ago in my last post:

Also there is the point in that, why should we expect to pay more for games when there are so many choices out there?

 

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/21960-a-misconception-on-the-misconception-of-mmo-costs/

The whole issue that I think you're trying to point out is that MMOs are an expensive endeavor, and that investors want something that rips people off.  That only the big whales will be able to enter this market, and why would they if they couldn't blatantly take our money?  But that's starting to become archaic; the community is starting to wise up, and soon they will need to be on the defensive as to how they make their earning and to appease the great MMO community beast that is rising up.

 

 

The prospects and reasons why this is happening need to be appeased.  Simply creating a new coat of paint for something will not solve the issues we're having.  People will still have access to other games, and new games will still be released with better and cheaper systems.  In the interest of perserving a monthly fee of any sort, one needs to look beyond the cash symbols in their eyes and look to the consumer.  The customer is always right, and those who only invest in this business with intent to rip of customers will soon need to get out if they don't understand how payment models are evolving.  

 

When you take a look at the future of this genre, and the future of gaming in general you need to consider many things.  One thing that we write off is the console fanbase.  Consoles for a MMO?  Haha!  That's not going to happen, right?  Except that it might.  The MMO has reached it's peak how it is now and with computer based players.  It needs new blood, and where better to get it from than the systems that  are starting to focus on social structures and internet connectivity.  In recent new we hear that the new generation games will have "free to play games" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EiXnqOUPEw ).  This should be alarming and an eye opener as to what implications this could have for all genres (especially since we'll have so much more online games, and with technology the line between MMO and Online game will be blurred as having 200+ people in one area may become the norm at one point).  

 

Add to that the fact that the PS4 has been confirmed to have these social aspects, internet games, having technology available whereby you could jump in and actually play the game for your friend (etc), we have a potentially powerful system and a host of new potential players.  What are these players used to?  Well, microtransactions (cash shops) and games that are Buy to Play.  Most are skeptical of MMOs simply because you have to rent the game you play.  I go into depth with this in my blog:  http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Yaevindusk/032013/24782_A-brief-analysis-of-MMOs-and-contextual-payment-plans-Why-World-of-Warcraft-may-want-The-Elders-Scrolls-to-go-P2P-update-2

 

We already see this happening with Defiance and Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn (a game that was remade and definitely needs to remake the cash with a subscription), and these are with ancient hardware and have nothing like the (very computer based) specs of the new generation of consoles.  We also had those rumors that the Xbox 720 will have always online requirements (which again are rumors, but one of their employees didn't see why that was a bad thing).

 

As a whole they could continue to try and rip people off or they can adapt to the situations at hand and take full well advantage of the future as it comes.  Technology is evolving, bandwidth costs are minimal and a new age is upon us.

 

A minor detail here, Bioshock infinate for instance is estimated to have 4.6milion units sold by the end of the year. A mmo feels lucky to reach 2 million copies, most dont even get past 1 million..

Setting production cost (for arguement sake with advertisement etc etc) 100,000,000usd, they need to sell 2,000,000 units to break even (asuming game sells for 50usd)

Seeing how few mmo's actually getting past 1million units sold, they dont even get half their investment back. Granted the production cost of an mmo vary, Rift for instance was estimated to have costed 50 million and sold ~1 million units. So they broke even. Without a penny to spare, so the sub's really turned into their only actual reward for their risk and investment.

Swtor sold around 2million copies and costed 155m.

So no, I really dont agree with the pure rip-off statement, even though they actually make a profit!

 

 

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7199

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/10/13 4:53:54 AM#80
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

It's too late now for fancy subscription options :)

Game developers and publishers were "forced" to abandon subscription plans in favour of F2P Cash Shop funding.

Having discovered just how profitable F2P revenue models can be, these developers and publishers are going to be VERY reluctant to abandon them.

it's a bubble...it won't be here for long enough for a 'true f2p generation mmo' era to reach maturity. 

they may be reluctant but they'll have no choice. 

 

I pretty much agree. It's even a bubble that pretty much in the West relies on subs to support it... I wonder what many these 'F2P' (which are actually hybrid models that use both subs and cash shops to support themselves) games would look like financially if you removed the stable income of the committed monthly payer.

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