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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » A true compromise on 30 day subscriptions.

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132 posts found
  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 3:55:43 AM#41

 

I'd rather have 90 tokens of 8 hours myself.  :P

 

But in doing this people will probably start to realize the truth that they're renting games or even begin feeling like they're playing one of those old arcade machines.  At the moment we're trained to think "it's just the cost of three meals at Taco Bell" or some such.  Whereas if you look at things in terms of liquidation and business you're spending upwards of three thousand dollars for a single game that you don't even own / have access to and then feel like you wasted your time and money since you can't access the characters you spent all that time on (which is another reason why it's so hard to take things away from WoW).

 

As a whole we're starting to get into the whole "pay for what you play" that the korean market is big on.  The big companies have spent a lot of money to get us to believe that this system is bad so that they can rake in the big money with people only spending a few hours a month playing a MMO game.

 

I'm waiting for new payment models myself, and would welcome something that tries to be new.  But new things also tend to be torn a new one by the vocal minority, which sadly carries weight as people believe what they see in thread titles as they're too lazy to read the content or look up context.

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 689

5/10/13 4:00:38 AM#42
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

this is a very good idea. but i don't think publishers will ever compromise with their earning like this. who cares about convenience of the consumers? 

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4305

5/10/13 4:07:23 AM#43

If the MMO is good enough then its worth paying a sub.. most of the games released as f2p are just not worth a sub.

I have no issues paying $15 a month and not playing every day after all i can spend that going down the pub and having a few beers and that only lasts a few hours and i have a bad head the next day haha.

With a monthly sub the company knows how much cash is coming in every month, if they run a system as the OP suggests it will be harder for them to know how much cash they could have coming in so it does not make sense for a company thats out to make money.

PLus i would choose a $15 a month sub over a stupid cash shop anyday.. i dont want to buy a game and then have to buy the content as a separate DLC.

 

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:08:09 AM#44
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

it's basically an extended version of the asian model.

 

why not push it further, and charge 2 cents/hour. it's nearly the same thing, isnt it.

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:08:20 AM#45
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

Not saying its a bad idea per say but where is the compromise?

IF they would impliment a system like this you'd end up paying more per day, it would be far more likely they would charge 20-30usd for 30 days worth of tokens. This would be an actual compromise, you dont play too consistant its cheaper, if you play on a daily base, this would be more expensive.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7000

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/10/13 4:13:59 AM#46
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:16:25 AM#47
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

it's basically an extended version of the asian model.

 

why not push it further, and charge 2 cents/hour. it's nearly the same thing, isnt it.

 

I would love to pay 2 cents an hour myself.  Even if you played 12 hours a day, you'd only end up paying $7.20 a month.

 

With this at least I wouldn't feel ripped off and would know it was going to actualy costs and development when it comes to my own personal use of their game/systems.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:19:35 AM#48
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Thats not greed, that is reason. The op isnt suggesting any form of compromise, he is suggesting "how to make my mmo cheaper" with a new wrapper, which can just as easy be label'd greed.

More risks withing extra gain.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:22:50 AM#49
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

it's basically an extended version of the asian model.

 

why not push it further, and charge 2 cents/hour. it's nearly the same thing, isnt it.

 

I would love to pay 2 cents an hour myself.  Even if you played 12 hours a day, you'd only end up paying $7.20 a month.

 

With this at least I wouldn't feel ripped off and would know it was going to actualy costs and development when it comes to my own personal use of their game/systems.

realistically it'd most likely be 5 cents/hour because they expect most players to be casual so they'll want to cash promarily on the casual playstyles. But that's speculation. more importantly, OP mentions "logging in" as step 2.

 

how do you log in if you havent plugged the coin in yet ?

 

in EVE you can do something similar in functionality with PLEX. it's a 30-day subcription...'coin'. But if you have no subscription running, yet you have a PLEX in your posession you're at the mercy of GMs. I heard they ill give you a very small free timeframe to basically get in, click that PLEX, if you ask them nicely but they absolutely 100% don't HAVE TO.

 

and eve is a tiny mmo, out there in a corner of the niche market. imagine a game like...WoW whre everyone logs in to click his '24 hours' subscription.

 

perhaps a better option is to click the 'coin' in a browser on your account page ?

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

5/10/13 4:25:18 AM#50

Its 15$ a month, you cant find cheaper entertainment for less this day in age. Subscription prices for MMO's is about the only thing in the industry that hasnt gone up in price in a decade. I cant even start my car to go for a country drive for less than a day's worth of unlimited gaming (50 cents). And honestly with deals and yearly subs you can normaly knocj that price down to about 35 cents. Like thats such a huge deal..... really?

 

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:29:04 AM#51
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Here's my idea.

You buy a 30 day sub.

You login.

You have 30 "tokens" on your login/character screen.

You click the tokens and one is used.

You now have 24 hours to play with that one token, logging in/out as many times as need throughout that 24 hours.

Can't play tomorrow? No prob, your remaining 29 days are waiting for whenever you want to use them.

At $15 per 30days of tokens, you are spending $.50 for each 24 hour block.

You get all the benefits of the subscription, without feeling you've "lost" your money by only playing a few hours a week.

it's basically an extended version of the asian model.

 

why not push it further, and charge 2 cents/hour. it's nearly the same thing, isnt it.

 

I would love to pay 2 cents an hour myself.  Even if you played 12 hours a day, you'd only end up paying $7.20 a month.

 

With this at least I wouldn't feel ripped off and would know it was going to actualy costs and development when it comes to my own personal use of their game/systems.

realistically it'd most likely be 5 cents/hour because they expect most players to be casual so they'll want to cash promarily on the casual playstyles. But that's speculation. more importantly, OP mentions "logging in" as step 2.

 

how do you log in if you havent plugged the coin in yet ?

 

in EVE you can do something similar in functionality with PLEX. it's a 30-day subcription...'coin'. But if you have no subscription running, yet you have a PLEX in your posession you're at the mercy of GMs. I heard they ill give you a very small free timeframe to basically get in, click that PLEX, if you ask them nicely but they absolutely 100% don't HAVE TO.

 

and eve is a tiny mmo, out there in a corner of the niche market. imagine a game like...WoW whre everyone logs in to click his '24 hours' subscription.

 

perhaps a better option is to click the 'coin' in a browser on your account page ?

You can add another page to the launcher where you redeem a token to get to server/character sellect or creation.

You'd log in through your launcher and before clicking play you click redeem.

But effectively this idea would be cheaper for extreme cassual players but end up costing more for consistant players, which is very reasonable.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:30:09 AM#52
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Thats not greed, that is reason. The op isnt suggesting any form of compromise, he is suggesting "how to make my mmo cheaper" with a new wrapper, which can just as easy be label'd greed.

More risks withing extra gain.

 

While at the same time P2P games are consistantly faltering.  There needs to be a new system if the payment model is to survive or even thrive.  Most who dislike it now do so because there are so many choices that cost less.  Then there are those who caught on to what their bills add up over the years.  This revelation hit my friend hard with City of Heroes.  All that money he spent on a game he was renting, now gone and lost forever to the ages.  It would be less devastating if you didn't feel ripped off and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars.

 

If anyone were to show their customers that they don't want to blatantly rip them off, I'm sure even these crowds will come back over and start playing again.  The whole thing about consumer good will is that it will tend to pay off much more than consistantly trying to milk people and rip them off over the years.  People are so burnt on most things, that a little show of good manners goes a long way.  If you take a look at the Neverwinter Facebook page when the game went offline due to stress, all you could see was people praising them for their quick responses and how they gave updates every 15 minutes on it's status.  

 

Good will in itself is a marketing tool, and a new payment model could very much paint someone as "the good guy" of MMOs if done right.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2830

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

5/10/13 4:31:51 AM#53
Originally posted by silvermember

how is that different from a sub? 

The reason F2p and b2p exist is because a lot of players believe most MMO are not worth a sub. What you are suggesting is simply fixing a symptom of a much bigger problem. It still doesn't change the fact that I have to buy the game and keep paying money for it. The most important thing for me, is that if I don't feel playing I lose access to my character, while in other models I can still reasonably play with no issues.

Also your token model, sucks because that means people will feel the need to play in other to maximize their tokens, but I suppose that is more of a personal problem.

added: with your model, i still have to buy game+ pay sub or token+pay expansion. how it is any different from having to buy game+pay sub+ expansion? Ultimately, your suggestion doesn't really fix anything or offer any suggestions that will benefit the majority of MMORPG which is not the same as the population that post on forums like these. All it does is make people that stupidly think a sub AUTOMATICALLY makes a game better or people that have an irrational hatred of f2p, happy.

 

td;dr

You suggestion doesn't fix or even understand the reason sub games are not popular and it is simply most MMORPG are not worth their subs. 

Wrong!

 

The reason F2P and B2P exist is because we "know" subscription gaming is an antiquated proposition and a barrier to entry for anyone who plays other types of games.  Guys don't pay subscription for games like Super Mario Brothers, Quake, Call of Duty, Skyrim and any other type of single player game so why should a multiplayer game be any different?  Answer: their not, therefore MMO's ought to be going F2P or B2P to attract new players else you're competeing for the same failed and niche playerbase (the current MMO playerbase).

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:32:36 AM#54
Originally posted by Onomas

Its 15$ a month, you cant find cheaper entertainment for less this day in age. Subscription prices for MMO's is about the only thing in the industry that hasnt gone up in price in a decade. I cant even start my car to go for a country drive for less than a day's worth of unlimited gaming (50 cents). And honestly with deals and yearly subs you can normaly knocj that price down to about 35 cents. Like thats such a huge deal..... really?

 

with the rise of f2p and catering to casual playstyles you'll find that the problem isn't "how much it costs". it's simply that "it costs".

 

following League of legends, a very huge F2P game, you'll find that a very large ammount of players won't, don't and can't spend because they have no access to a credit card linked to a bank account that isn't watched by the account's owner or co-signer.

 

$15/mo is neglectible. If you live on anything above bread and water you can afford to cover your entire entertainment side of your life (healthy about one third of day, realistically closer to one forth for busy individuals) within 2 quarters per day.

 

If you live in Africa in a hut made of straws and shit and every day you wake up, grab your spear and go hunting breakfast I can see how you cant afford it. But you already have internet access, and a computer or you wouldn't be here telling us you can't afford it. Give up Food Channel and you'll afford it.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4305

5/10/13 4:33:01 AM#55
Originally posted by Robokapp

and eve is a tiny mmo, out there in a corner of the niche market. imagine a game like...WoW whre everyone logs in to click his '24 hours' subscription.

 

I would not call Eve a tiny mmo, its got around 500k users thats about the number that a good MMORPG sits at.. ignore wow for a second that is just a blip.. most good western MMORPGs usually sit around 300k to 500k..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/10/13 4:34:31 AM#56
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
<snip>

 

I would love to pay 2 cents an hour myself.  Even if you played 12 hours a day, you'd only end up paying $7.20 a month.

 

With this at least I wouldn't feel ripped off and would know it was going to actualy costs and development when it comes to my own personal use of their game/systems.

realistically it'd most likely be 5 cents/hour because they expect most players to be casual so they'll want to cash promarily on the casual playstyles. But that's speculation. more importantly, OP mentions "logging in" as step 2.

 

<snip>

 

At five cents I'd just pass it by.  It would also be bad marketing and public relations for this market.  But as a whole all these ideas on improving the payment model are a welcome sight indeed.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:34:40 AM#57
Originally posted by Panthien

But effectively this idea would be cheaper for extreme cassual players but end up costing more for consistant players, which is very reasonable.

Is it ? think about it.

 

bulk purchases typically create bundle deals or other discounts.

 

I never found myself shopping and saw an add that said "buy 10, get 11th at double price".

 

increasing costs on your most loyal consumers, outside the drug (illegal) business, doesn't really exist.

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:36:00 AM#58
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by Wizardry
I feel your idea is a good one and can work.I have seen this exact idea with cash shop item use.Only real problem is GREED.Some investors or board members would simply say ,why commit to a system that has no upside.

Thats not greed, that is reason. The op isnt suggesting any form of compromise, he is suggesting "how to make my mmo cheaper" with a new wrapper, which can just as easy be label'd greed.

More risks withing extra gain.

 

While at the same time P2P games are consistantly faltering.  There needs to be a new system if the payment model is to survive or even thrive.  Most who dislike it now do so because there are so many choices that cost less.  Then there are those who caught on to what their bills add up over the years.  This revelation hit my friend hard with City of Heroes.  All that money he spent on a game he was renting, not gone and lost forever to the ages.  It would be less devastating if you didn't feel ripped off and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars.

 

If anyone were to show their customers that they don't want to blatantly rip them off, I'm sure even these crowds will come back over and start playing again.  The whole thing about consumer good will is that it will tend to pay off much more than consistantly trying to milk people and rip them off over the years.  People are so burnt on most things, that a little show of good manners goes a long way.  If you take a look at the Neverwinter Facebook page when the game went offline due to stress, all you could see was people praising them for their quick responses and how they gave updates every 15 minutes on it's status.  

 

Good will in itself is a marketing tool, and a new payment model could very much paint someone as "the good guy" of MMOs if done right.

A new payment system like this isnt a bad thing per say but you DO have to be reasonable. They are taking extra risks so it really isnt unreasonable to have something in it for them which.. is the part the OP skips, he really is just wrapping making my mmo cheaper in a new wrapper.

so end up paying 20-30usd for the same 30 day worth of tokens isnt unreasonable. A a casual player still ends up playing for less and they still get something out of their risk.

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/10/13 4:38:31 AM#59
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Robokapp

and eve is a tiny mmo, out there in a corner of the niche market. imagine a game like...WoW whre everyone logs in to click his '24 hours' subscription.

 

I would not call Eve a tiny mmo, its got around 500k users thats about the number that a good MMORPG sits at.. ignore wow for a second that is just a blip.. most good western MMORPGs usually sit around 300k to 500k..

well I was strictly speaking of EVE due to PLEX so in my statement it was basically "eve on one side, everyone else on the other side". at 22ish million MMORPG players, 500k is tiny. EVE itself is medium-sized (in a world where WoW is an abnormal giant and 'large' means 1mil+).

 

I was just pointing that the 'subscription coin' practive is very tiny...and if mainstreamed like OP is suggesting, the status quo might change dramatically.

  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

5/10/13 4:42:32 AM#60
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Panthien

But effectively this idea would be cheaper for extreme cassual players but end up costing more for consistant players, which is very reasonable.

Is it ? think about it.

 

bulk purchases typically create bundle deals or other discounts.

 

I never found myself shopping and saw an add that said "buy 10, get 11th at double price".

 

increasing costs on your most loyal consumers, outside the drug (illegal) business, doesn't really exist.

Now this is a funny twist of words. Very creative and very flawed.

Its not buy 10 and get the 11th for double the price, it would be more like instead of paying 50 cents a day you'd pay 66cents-1usd using a time token card. Going by 66c per day, playing 21days would cost the same as a normal sub but if you play 22-30days a month is more expensive then a regular monthly fee.

So your monthly cost on your game would depend on your average days spent ( can make the equivelent for pay-per hour but the principle remains the same.)

Btw, telephone prepayed cards for instance work like this.

 

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