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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » "Free to play" really just means "we're not going to tell you how much we intend to make you pay or how you'll be crippled if you don't."

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342 posts found
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13433

 
OP  4/30/13 9:47:30 PM#61
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

And how did that work out for them? Greece, Spain, Cyrus ...

Germany, England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...

 

I don't think you have an argument here. It works better for some worse for others ue to factors that have nothing to di with the topic at hand.

That's really irrelevant to this thread.  Would you say that subscription games are doing well in Europe and nothing there gets marketed as "free to play"?  Because if the revenue models that MMORPGs use in Europe are about the as in the US, then you're reduced to explaining the origin of differences that don't even exist.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13433

 
OP  4/30/13 9:51:21 PM#62
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

I disagree that they're trying to hide the business model. I find that notion to be quite odd.

I get that having to download a game to find out the content of it's cash shop to be a bit of a turn off, but I wouldn't consider that "hiding" the cash shop. Just like you won't know if you like say, Skyrim, unless you spend $60 to play the game. They're not hiding the game. The only difference is that for F2Ps, you don't have to spend any money at all to play.

If they tell you that the price tag is $60, then of course they're not hiding it.  "Free to play" is more akin to saying, play for a while and then we'll tell you the price tag later.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13433

 
OP  4/30/13 9:52:54 PM#63
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

Subscription is, " We'll never tell you how bad the game's going to be or how poorly it's at launch or the fact that we'll add an additional cash shop on the side. Heck we might never add any content to the short lifespan our game has. But you'll have to blindly trust us with you 15 dollar donations up front."

 See what I did there? Stop it.

You can have a free trial on a subscription game.  Games have done that for a long time.  Now a subscription game with a free trial will be marketed as "free to play", though, which further confuses the issue.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4834

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 9:56:04 PM#64
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

swtor's f2p bugged me.  IT's the only game I played where I was constantly reminded about buying something.  The UI locks (told that is gone now though) and evey time I turned in a quest was the reward window telling you what you could get.

It just got annoying.

Notifications go away as you unlock stuff.  Hell, you can even buy unlocks with in-game credits from the GTN if you really want to get cheap about it.

 Would the reward one change?  it showed your reward and then a sub reward, think there was a 3rd one too, can't recall.  Unless you had a sub that notification wouldn't change right?

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  WW4BW

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 491

4/30/13 11:18:42 PM#65

Sorry for steering the discussion off topic... was precisely why I was loathe to get in to it in the first place. But "when someone is wrong on the internet", noone, least of all myself can leave it alone.

 Few things I want to weigh in on though:

 Americans do play F2P more often than Europeans. (or so it was when last I saw some number ages ago) If that is no longer the case, then I was trying to explain away a moot point.

 As for who started the credit crunch , burst the financial bubble, screwed us all. Well its Wall street, the banks, "homeowners who put themselves underwater thinking they could always flip the house for more later on.. And then PANIC. And for greece, retiring at 50 is probably too early for a sustainable economy. Personally Im doing fine and havent felt the whole disaster.. But then again I rent.

I was going to post something on topic.. but I just hit the wall and need sleep

 

  WW4BW

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 491

4/30/13 11:20:48 PM#66
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quizzical
 

You can have a free trial on a subscription game.  Games have done that for a long time.  Now a subscription game with a free trial will be marketed as "free to play", though, which further confuses the issue.

 With the phrase: "Play for FREE" at any rate.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

4/30/13 11:21:24 PM#67
/shrug....All I know is I have paid considerably less for f2p games than I ever did for p2p games.....I think they are a great deal though I guess I am in the minority.
  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

4/30/13 11:28:38 PM#68
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

When was the last MMO like B2P or Sub game that was any different?  Clothing, XP pots, potions, gambling box keys, etc. all show up in every MMO regradless of pay model in some form or anouther to the point where these different models are more about cost of entry than they are anything else.

B2P with a cash shop is just a F2P game with a upfront cost.  Is there really a difference between that and preordering a founders pack from a F2P game that gives you everything you need to get started?

Sub games with a cash shop just give you the features you would likely be buying anyways in a convinent monthy fee.  There are still always more items you could be buying the cash shop if you liked as well.

They are all just the same business model wrapped up slightly differently.

  User Deleted
4/30/13 11:34:59 PM#69
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

swtor's f2p bugged me.  IT's the only game I played where I was constantly reminded about buying something.  The UI locks (told that is gone now though) and evey time I turned in a quest was the reward window telling you what you could get.

It just got annoying.

Notifications go away as you unlock stuff.  Hell, you can even buy unlocks with in-game credits from the GTN if you really want to get cheap about it.

 Would the reward one change?  it showed your reward and then a sub reward, think there was a 3rd one too, can't recall.  Unless you had a sub that notification wouldn't change right?

I think you're right about that one.  I never worried about it, personally, because the "locked" reward always seemed to be a loot box (usually the basic green one).  

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1867

5/01/13 12:50:13 AM#70
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

 

I doubt it will ever become a derogatory term.   Publishers use it as a marketing term to get players to check out their game.  It really doesn't have anything to do with the business model.  P2W more accurately describes how these companies earn their money, and I see P2W becoming more of the main stream term used by players.  

 

IMHO, the only way F2P will ever disappear from advertisements is when lawmakers step in, and that time may be soon now that EA is looking in the direction of the cash shop model.  

  PAL-18

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

5/01/13 12:54:16 AM#71

p2p ,get all content for ~15$ per month.

f2p ,pay 1000$ per day and still you miss something.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
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  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

5/01/13 12:56:30 AM#72

F2P games are not free, people are blind.

Do you honestly think someone would come up with an idea, produce it, and advertize it only to give it away free?

You are either going to be gimped or pay out the butt in the cash shop. Either of those choices just suxx

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4680

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/01/13 12:59:49 AM#73
Originally posted by Onomas

Do you honestly think someone would come up with an idea, produce it, and advertize it only to give it away free?

addictinggames.com

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

5/01/13 1:02:27 AM#74
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Onomas

Do you honestly think someone would come up with an idea, produce it, and advertize it only to give it away free?

addictinggames.com

You arent honestly comparing those trashy little games to mmorpgs are you?

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6751

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/01/13 1:12:17 AM#75
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

I don't think of it like that.

If I know it's f2p, I expect I can play a good portion of the game free, however I also expect that the devs will try and get me to pay something.  How much I pay is up to me.

Doesn't seem very hidden to me. 

I don't think it will be become derogatory.  I think it was derogatory and is becoming more accepted, I expect that to continue. 

Well yes you are correect but there is more to it than that.F2P games are designed to run and operate cheaper to support the no sub model.Also with no income to recover they are going to limit how much  they invest.You are almost guaranteed an inferior product technically and overall content is most likely lacking as well.GM and support msot likely lacking as well.Content and updates probably also lacking.So many are being mislead by F2p games adding in content after releasing a very shallow game.You should not get credit for releasing  half a game then bringing in parts slowly along the way.

My point is that F2P games tend to be already a bit or a lot weaker than a full fledged subbed game.So now add in the fact the yare going to further dumb that game down to force you to pay,so now you really get an inferior product.Plus just the fact theat you are not able to play the full game as intended by design is really bad as well.

There are only two benefits to this design,one if you simply do not have money ,it allows you some access.The second thing is becuase it allows some access to players who  would not be there otherwise,it keeps the game world some what busy looking so that paying customers don't have an empty looking world.

There is absolutely no benefit to the game or it's design,only possible detriments.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

5/01/13 3:23:51 AM#76
Originally posted by Nikecow
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Yamota

In a single player or co-op game then the F2P mentality of paying whatever you feel like to pay for, might work. However in a competetive game it is completely ridicilous to allow for shortcuts, if you open your wallet.

So don't play competitively It's quite simple really.  Stop acting like playing a game is just an excuse to swing your e-peen around.  It's not.

I find this an highly idiotic statement. You can't dismiss something like that so easily. It only shows how ignorant you are.

About F2P. I hate the model. I wish Pay per month would get more popular again ;/

Sure you can, you can make a choice.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to be competitive.  It's like going out to play basketball with your friends.  You can either be hyper-competitive and probably piss everyone else off or you can just have a good time, not worry about the score and just toss the ball around.

You're choosing the first option.  I'm choosing the second.  It's your call.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  Popori

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 333

5/01/13 5:56:42 AM#77
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Onomas

Do you honestly think someone would come up with an idea, produce it, and advertize it only to give it away free?

addictinggames.com

Turn off ad-block and check out all the freeness on that site.

  jalexbrown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/13
Posts: 122

5/01/13 6:56:24 AM#78
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

Free to play means just what it sounds like - it's free to play, not free to play forever.  It's just like going to an all you can eat buffet doesn't ensure that you're going to get to eat for the rest of your life.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/01/13 7:19:09 AM#79

Free two play means to me FREE two play not part of game and if i want more i need to buy in cashshop no thx.

Same with DLC only if its a expansion that comes later not on day one that already should have been in the game at launch.

I rather pay subscription and know i get 100% then free two play and get 80% or maybe even less.

60 euro's for GW2 not one eurocent ive spent in cashshop i eventually stop playing it became a cashshop game items on trade became way to expensive rich people just bought gems to change them into gold.

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/01/13 8:21:49 AM#80
Originally posted by WW4BW
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Quizzical
 

You can have a free trial on a subscription game.  Games have done that for a long time.  Now a subscription game with a free trial will be marketed as "free to play", though, which further confuses the issue.

 With the phrase: "Play for FREE" at any rate.

 

On the contrary, free to play fits perfectly, because as you know, youre always free to not play as well.
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