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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » "Free to play" really just means "we're not going to tell you how much we intend to make you pay or how you'll be crippled if you don't."

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342 posts found
  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 497

4/30/13 7:15:28 PM#21
if you have played dragon age 2 and saw how "free" free marches region is, you have a very good idea how "free" f2p games are. in the phrase "free to play" take the word "free" losely and you will have your answer. 

No panties, No Life

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13110

 
OP  4/30/13 7:43:11 PM#22
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

Nope, simply because almost everyone already knows what the term means and most are fine with it. Never confuse the general concensus here with reality of the rest of the world.

Almost everyone knows what "free to play" means?  I certainly don't.  Just about everything gets described as "free to play" these days, even with business models that five years ago would have been called a subscription game or buy to play or some such.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1054

4/30/13 7:50:23 PM#23

So WoW, Rift, AC(big hitter here), and EVE versus 1000 other gimmicky(for the most part) games.

 

Where did this site even recieve revenue numbers. You'd have to do a fair share of digging and analyzing to even find WoW's revenues as its not a line item on the income statement or mentioned in the 10K(akaik).

 

Good luck getting Rift, and the other private games revenue numbers.

  WW4BW

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 478

4/30/13 8:08:59 PM#24

Just wondering... Who buys 3000$ worth of ingame currency in one go?

Read about an interesting experience in Age of Wushu and decided to give it a try. Got a bit to swamped with quests and kill tasks to really try and figure out the game, but I did notice that I was constantly encouraged to spend cash on something.

It especially annoyed me that I had to become a vip member or spend ingame money if I wanted to try and reach out to someone.. I had ONE conversation that I didnt have to pay for. In 10 hours of playing. Makes it really damn hard to see if there are some people out there that I would like to play with.

I did go and look at what it would cost to become VIP.. about 8$ or 30 Gold.. 3000$ would be 10000 Gold.. so good for about 333 months.. That is quite the commitment.. But when you have to pay to speak in World and Gossip chat and to train faster, I guess you can spend it quickly enough

  AeonZen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 44

Vicarious

4/30/13 8:16:27 PM#25

I prefer box + monthly sub + cosmetic shop with no pay to win items.

Simple.

I won't complain about FTP because you do get to play for free... but the FTP games don't feel as "immersive" to me.  Because "the real world" affects the "fantasy world" economy. 

I like sub games.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4665

GW2 socialist.

4/30/13 8:16:30 PM#26

Why are F2P games doing better in the US than elsewhere?  I'll tell you why, it's the same reason we're in economic hell: money just seems to burn a hole in our pockets and we spend it poorly.  That's my American point of view.  I'm not like that personally, but it seems so many people get genuinely scared when they see a F2P game because they fear it's going to open their wallet and force money out.

It's not.  You just need self control.  Don't blame video games for your poor decisions, that goes for every country in the world, but I've seen Americans complain the most.

As for the subject by the OP, I'll reiterate: DO SOME RESEARCH.  Learn what games are cash sinks, and either don't play them or blame yourself.  It takes 5 minutes.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/30/13 8:19:36 PM#27

Only western F2P games do that and that is because they are NOT F2P games, they are FREEMIUMS where they lock much of the base content.

I have never been crippled in a F2P game before, you have clearly played NONE of them.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

4/30/13 8:22:22 PM#28
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Most games are pretty up front. You can check out the cashshop the moment you first log into the game.

Which is to say, they won't tell you until after you download the game and start playing.  And even then, it takes a while to understand just how strong the things in the item mall are or aren't.  And even if you know what's in the item mall today, what's there in a month won't necessarily be all that similar--especially if they're relying heavily on random boxes with constantly changing contents.

Yeh. So?

Download is free. Playing the first few min is free. What are you going to lose? Five min?

 

  jinxxed0

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 845

4/30/13 8:25:58 PM#29
Originally posted by Rossboss

P2W is a derogatory term. F2P is not, and will never be. F2P models for MMORPGs are meant to appeal to the short term players that hop from game to game. MMORPG players are kind of notorious for "completing" MMORPGs at a massively faster rate than SRPGs. I can tell you (or someone you know) probably got burned or spent too much money on a single game.

F2P is not targetted at the traditional MMORPG gamers.

I wish there were some traditional MMOs being made so traditional MMO gamers could have something to look forward to. I have a feeling all these "sandbox" games coming out are just going to ruin the idea of sandboxes.

  KhinRunite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

4/30/13 8:33:26 PM#30
Pffft. It's a game. It's being offered for free. I don't see why one needs to ponder about business models and other trivial things. The moment a barrier comes and it's not worth the purchase I just drop the game and move on.
  Nikecow

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/11
Posts: 34

You're either in my corner, or you're with the trolls.

4/30/13 8:33:45 PM#31
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Yamota

In a single player or co-op game then the F2P mentality of paying whatever you feel like to pay for, might work. However in a competetive game it is completely ridicilous to allow for shortcuts, if you open your wallet.

So don't play competitively It's quite simple really.  Stop acting like playing a game is just an excuse to swing your e-peen around.  It's not.

I find this an highly idiotic statement. You can't dismiss something like that so easily. It only shows how ignorant you are.

About F2P. I hate the model. I wish Pay per month would get more popular again ;/

They see me lurkin' they hatin...

  WW4BW

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 478

4/30/13 8:35:25 PM#32
Originally posted by Eir_S

Why are F2P games doing better in the US than elsewhere?  I'll tell you why, it's the same reason we're in economic hell: money just seems to burn a hole in our pockets and we spend it poorly.  That's my American point of view.  I'm not like that personally, but it seems so many people get genuinely scared when they see a F2P game because they fear it's going to open their wallet and force money out.

It's not.  You just need self control.  Don't blame video games for your poor decisions, that goes for every country in the world, but I've seen Americans complain the most.

As for the subject by the OP, I'll reiterate: DO SOME RESEARCH.  Learn what games are cash sinks, and either don't play them or blame yourself.  It takes 5 minutes.

 Well, Americans are used to making that sort of decision. Same reason you dont have socialized medicine. (Almost) Dont really want to get into that discussion. But I will dip my toes.

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

 Same reason we are lousy tippers.. we simply dont realize that americans in the food industry have such a lousy minimum wage that they dont get any money after taxes if they dont get tips.

 Back to games. Sure some of them are shameless cash sinks. But I personally (and I think many others agree) believe that some of the good F2P games would have been far  more enjoyable if they had been subscribtuion based.

 And it certainly hasnt put Gold Sellers out of business that the games sell you gold themselves.. Getting even more spam in F2P games than I ever did.. But that just might be because the market is growing.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4465

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 8:37:15 PM#33
Originally posted by Nikecow
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Yamota

In a single player or co-op game then the F2P mentality of paying whatever you feel like to pay for, might work. However in a competetive game it is completely ridicilous to allow for shortcuts, if you open your wallet.

So don't play competitively It's quite simple really.  Stop acting like playing a game is just an excuse to swing your e-peen around.  It's not.

I find this an highly idiotic statement. You can't dismiss something like that so easily. It only shows how ignorant you are.

About F2P. I hate the model. I wish Pay per month would get more popular again ;/

it will. when the minimum wage is >7.50 it's hard to find yourself Online yet justify not having 15 per month.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

4/30/13 8:38:01 PM#34
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Quizzical
I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

Nope, simply because almost everyone already knows what the term means and most are fine with it. Never confuse the general concensus here with reality of the rest of the world.

Almost everyone knows what "free to play" means?  I certainly don't.  Just about everything gets described as "free to play" these days, even with business models that five years ago would have been called a subscription game or buy to play or some such.

Can you give an example of one of the free to play games where you are confused whether it is subscription or free to play? In the meantime, here's the definition of almost. ;)

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4665

GW2 socialist.

4/30/13 8:38:28 PM#35
@WW4BW - thanks for the well thought out and informative response.  Cheers, as they say.
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4465

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 8:48:11 PM#36
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Same reason we are lousy tippers.. we simply dont realize that americans in the food industry have such a lousy minimum wage that they dont get any money after taxes if they dont get tips.

by law the employer should cover the difference up to minimum wage if the tips don't get the waiter there.

 

it's very very overlooked...and while I agree to tipping and I generally tip very well...it's not a customer problem. this is between your law and your law enforcement. If you want the consumer to fix what the law cant enforce you're looking at softcore anarchy.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

4/30/13 8:49:58 PM#37
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

And how did that work out for them? Greece, Spain, Cyrus ...

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4465

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 8:51:41 PM#38
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

And how did that work out for them? Greece, Spain, Cyrus ...

Germany, England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...

 

I don't think you have an argument here. It works better for some worse for others ue to factors that have nothing to di with the topic at hand.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4684

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 8:54:43 PM#39
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

And how did that work out for them? Greece, Spain, Cyrus ...

Germany, England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...

 

I don't think you have an argument here. It works better for some worse for others ue to factors that have nothing to di with the topic at hand.

nm

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

4/30/13 9:00:01 PM#40
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by WW4BW

 Europeans are far more comfortable with the idea that you pay once (tax) and then you dont have to think with your wallet every time you feel a bit under the weather. So we know how much we spent. And we know how much we can spend on fun and food.. Getting sick might keep us from working. But it wont saddle us with crippling medical expenses on top ot that.

And how did that work out for them? Greece, Spain, Cyrus ...

Germany, England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...

 

I don't think you have an argument here. It works better for some worse for others ue to factors that have nothing to di with the topic at hand.

Isn't the debt crisis dragging everyone in the Eurozone down?

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