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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » The myth of "The PvErs" vs. "The PvPers"?

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101 posts found
  bugmeno

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 87

 
OP  4/18/13 6:38:47 AM#1
I wonder if these archetypes really exist. I rather think there is a "absolutely no PvP" vocal minority and the "play everything majority" but I might be wrong. Therefore - poll time

IN MMOS I PLAY

Both PvE and PvP I want it well merged together and I play every aspect in MMOs
I only play PvP - I despise PvE
I only play PvE - I despise PvP
(login to vote)

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/18/13 7:26:56 AM#2

I think it's entirely possible that there are people who have no interest at all in PvP or PvE in MMOs, but I feel pretty certain that there are far fewer of those people than people who want both.

I'm also going to guess that there are fewer pure PvP people than PvE people on these forums and in the world, but that's just a gut feeling. I don't really have much to back it up.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Dzone

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/12
Posts: 319

4/18/13 8:30:46 AM#3

I picked PVE cause i hardly ever did PVP in mmo. I've had a long break from mmo's though, well except when i played GW2 for 2 months then quit, cause i finished most of the pve in that one.

The game that made me fall in love with PVE was ffxi played it for years and just grew to love PVE, never could get into pvp, prolly why i quit GW2.

  Laeesh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 89

4/18/13 8:33:58 AM#4
hmmm none of these choices i guess. These choices are 50%/50% PvE/PvP , 100% PvP, 100% PvE. I would see myself as a 25% PvE and 75% PvP Player. =) But an interesting topic at all.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/18/13 9:01:45 AM#5
It's not a myth.

One need only look at the numerous "remove all pvp" threads you see during every games beta.
  mmoski

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/08
Posts: 269

4/18/13 9:11:16 AM#6
Im primarily a PvP player, but do like the odd bit of PvE, the problem i have though is that most games build around PvE, which ends up as just a tag on PvP system which normaly has bad results, and while you have "i like merged PvP&PvE", im more inclined to play PvE and PvP in a none merged context.
  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4305

4/18/13 9:13:28 AM#7

Well i said both but i lean towards PVP really..

I see a place for PVP only MMORPGS like Camelot and also PVE only games.... there is room in this world for all of them..

 

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  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1374

We live for The One, we die for The One.

4/18/13 9:19:15 AM#8
voted pve, i dont hate pvp, just dont care about it, but there is no such option
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17626

4/18/13 9:22:18 AM#9

Personally it depends on how the pvp is implemented which determins whether I will play it.

For instance, I love pvp but can't get myself to continue GW2 pvp. It just doesn't interest me.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1876

4/18/13 9:38:05 AM#10

I play both, but I prefer MMO's that are not strictly PvP to focus on PvE with PvP as a bonus.

I think the biggest myth in MMO's is open world pvp. There's really two ways it goes:

1. Little genuine pvp occurs, mostly ganking or getting ganked - typically around valuable areas (materials, instances). The common response is to go get your buddies and come back for a fight, but that's the think isn't it? No one actually wants to fight. They want to win. There's a difference. So if their group is not capable of beating your group, they just run off.  Once in a while you experience decent pvp, but the rest of the time is pretty boring.

2. Certain areas become "pvp" hotspots. It's funny that people think that instanced pvp came about because developers are mean and want to ruin your fun! No, people naturally gravitated towards certain main pvp areas. You knew that when you logged on there would most likely be a mass of people punching each other in that area. The only thing instancing did was create even numbered and equal leveled sides (which gankers hate) and take the lag out of that particular region.

 

And PvP "balance" has been the most unfun class homogenizing BS in the history of MMO's. Things get stripped down and classes lose a lot of their flavor as balacing occurs. And that's because sport style gaming requires skill to be involved. Almost everyone's fondest memories of past MMO's was before balancing occurred. Abilities could be broken when used with certain gear that the devs hadn't anticipated, or maybe they had, but not to that degree. Making odd builds that worked a certain way was fun and people loved it.

But PvPers cry more than anyone else on the planet. They have the audacity to call others carebears, but the biggest and most plentiful tears always come from the PvPers. "His spell hurts me too much, mommy!!! Nerf!" Their incessant whining, imho, has been the greatest influence on MMO design in the last decade.

  Tanemund

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 83

4/18/13 9:43:07 AM#11

I like to have the option of both, but that presents a huge problem for developers.  Its hard to balance powers/actions/abilities for both PvE and PvP. 

 

For example in the earliest days of DAoC, playing a Hibernian meant you were nothing but a target drone in RvR.  At launch Midgard dominated.  We refered to them as "Stungard" because there were no immunity timers on Crowd Control spells.  The healers could just spam stun on enemies and keep them completely incapacitated while the other Mids chopped them to pieces.  My earliest memory of RvR was watching a single dwarf healer stun my group over and over while the two zerkers she was with took turns killing the eight of us.  Mid and Alb didn't have Endurance Regeneration, so one would sit to regenerate endurance while the other killed someone and then they'd trade.  Myself and the other seven Hibs just stood there like statutes until we were all dead.

 

Albs had those chain stunning pets that were murder in RvR as well.

 

Then Hibernian Bards got insta mezz and the balance shifted horribly to the Hib side.  Add in group purge and hibernian tanks were running wild on the frontier.  If they ran with two druids (which almost ever group did) the Hib tanks were purging three times a fight and the heavy tanks, thanks to Determination, were almost immune to Crowd Control spells.  I remember Det 5 tanks referring to mezz as "about as long as a lag burp". 

 

You give a gamer too many experiences like that and they'll hate PvP.  In the history of DAoC there probably wasn't a game mechanic that created more agony and was fiddled with more than Crowd Control.  It seemed like every patch there were two new tweaks to the Crowd Control system.  A decade later and they're still mucking with it.  And this is in a game people argue as the absolute pinnacle of MMORPG PvP gaming.

 

All these mechanics worked fine in PvE, but once it got out onto the frontier they were hideously overpowered.  With that said, however, there was something else for me to do in the game (PvE) until Mythic tried to sort out the Crowd Control  problem.  And most of my most cherished MMO memories from all games come from quiet evenings spent with friends killing mindless AI over and over again.  Lots of people forget that in those early days of DAoC the people who could lead good PvE groups and raids got as much respect as the people who could lead RvR groups and zergs.  My gaming group and I spent hours exploring and pouring over maps of all the zones because when we wanted to be sure that when someone landed in one of our groups they got to see something they'd never seen before, go somewhere they'd never been before or did something they'd never done before be it in RvR or PvE.  Our message was and is still simple. 

 

Anything is fun if you have the right attitude and the company is good.

Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  dlld

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 519

4/18/13 9:49:20 AM#12

Both but it's sort of a half truth.

I do not really enjoy "battlegrounds" and the few times i end up playing them it's because of some other reward.

I do like WvW in gw2 and wintergrasp in WoW for example though.

  Katilla

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 644

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

4/18/13 9:52:41 AM#13

     I mostly play MMO's to group up with people and take on group oriented content....I love the social aspect of the genre and love logging in and making new online friends and sharing moments of accomplishment. 

     I don't really PvP because it seems to bring out the worst in people from my experience, and i HATE forced PvP and getting ganked when I am trying to quest with friends, and getting called a carebear because i want to enjoy a game without having to look over my shoulder and be paranoid everytime i step outside a city.

    PvP seems to be more geared toward end game players who hit the level cap and get bored nowadays, but the sandbox games seem to love the open PvP setting which kind of annoys me. 

     PRE-CU SWG had the system down perfectly, flag yourself if you want open faction based PvP, if not then go about your buisness without getting ganked and have fun. 

     Just my opinion, but i enjoyed the hell out of it when it was like that and wish more games would come out that are sandbox with a system in pace like this.

Just my two credits.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/18/13 9:53:22 AM#14
Originally posted by Laeesh
hmmm none of these choices i guess. These choices are 50%/50% PvE/PvP , 100% PvP, 100% PvE. I would see myself as a 25% PvE and 75% PvP Player. =) But an interesting topic at all.

None of those choices work for me, either. I play most MMOs for the PvE lately, but that's primarily because I'm not a fan of the way PvP is commonly done (level and gear based).

 

The choices seem rather extreme/skewed, however choices of "I like A therefore I despise B" probably work well here.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  danwest58

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 597

4/18/13 9:57:23 AM#15
Originally posted by bugmeno
I wonder if these archetypes really exist. I rather think there is a "absolutely no PvP" vocal minority and the "play everything majority" but I might be wrong. Therefore - poll time

You can put a poll up however there is the majority of MMO players that will never post on a MMO forum nor read a forum post.  So how do you poll those players?  Honestly You just have to look at games today.  Most of them have more PVE servers and these servers are more populated than then few PVP servers.  Yea there are one off PVP servers that have more players on than a PVE server, however that is few and far between.

  rensta

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/08
Posts: 287

"Girlfriends come and go but epic items are soulbound"

4/18/13 9:57:28 AM#16

People who want only to pvp go play shooters..... 

I love my mmos heavily pvp orianted with abit of pve....


Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1644

4/18/13 9:57:57 AM#17

The ida of a game that supports both play styles well is appealing.  I have yet to see it implemented in anything close to well.  Either one style gets little more than lip service over the other or they both suffer because of limitiations the other puts on game wide systems such as class abilities and combat flow.

I personally would much rather a developer came forward and said that the two systems fundementaly conflict with each other and short of making two different games that exist in the same world there is no good way to have both coexist well together.  The alternative is horrible hybrid PVE/PVP games where both systems suffer because the developer tried to shoehorn in systems that don't fit.

  mrrshann618

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 202

4/18/13 9:59:01 AM#18
Originally posted by Rusque

I play both, but I prefer MMO's that are not strictly PvP to focus on PvE with PvP as a bonus.

I think the biggest myth in MMO's is open world pvp. There's really two ways it goes:

1. Little genuine pvp occurs, mostly ganking or getting ganked - typically around valuable areas (materials, instances). The common response is to go get your buddies and come back for a fight, but that's the think isn't it? No one actually wants to fight. They want to win. There's a difference. So if their group is not capable of beating your group, they just run off.  Once in a while you experience decent pvp, but the rest of the time is pretty boring.

2. Certain areas become "pvp" hotspots. It's funny that people think that instanced pvp came about because developers are mean and want to ruin your fun! No, people naturally gravitated towards certain main pvp areas. You knew that when you logged on there would most likely be a mass of people punching each other in that area. The only thing instancing did was create even numbered and equal leveled sides (which gankers hate) and take the lag out of that particular region.

 

And PvP "balance" has been the most unfun class homogenizing BS in the history of MMO's. Things get stripped down and classes lose a lot of their flavor as balacing occurs. And that's because sport style gaming requires skill to be involved. Almost everyone's fondest memories of past MMO's was before balancing occurred. Abilities could be broken when used with certain gear that the devs hadn't anticipated, or maybe they had, but not to that degree. Making odd builds that worked a certain way was fun and people loved it.

But PvPers cry more than anyone else on the planet. They have the audacity to call others carebears, but the biggest and most plentiful tears always come from the PvPers. "His spell hurts me too much, mommy!!! Nerf!" Their incessant whining, imho, has been the greatest influence on MMO design in the last decade.

Basically you hit the nail on the head as I see it. Most of the time I do not see PvP "wars" I see opportunity Ganking. Until a MMO can have a REAL penalty for ganking I'm just not a fan of PvP. Now on the other hand RvR is much more my style. If I want to go PvPing (and anticipate getting ganked if I'm not cautious enough)  I'll head to the battlefront  and enjoy PvPing, at least until there is at least a 2-1 odds in which case it just turns into a gankfest/Zergkill Those are really no fun imho (yes even if I'm on the zerg side)

 

PvP should always be a Paper-rock-scisors. Archers should be better than anyone wielding 2 hands, which is why shields were created (tower shields for example), but then Horsemen tactics were introduced to destroy the short blade phalanx, thus pikes were created, ect... You should need all to work properly in a "fun" PvP not just zerging around as a bunch of DPS

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/18/13 10:00:48 AM#19
The "balance problem" seems to exist more in games like wow.

E.g. games that were designed as 100% pve games then they hammer and duct taped some token pvp on later. The other cause of the problem is mmos chasing the pink elephant of Esports, which is an impossible dream in a mmo where you have classes gear etc..

For pvp and pve to coexist without homogonised boring classes.
1 design pvp into your game from the start
2 don't balance for 1 vs 1, balance for group play, mmos are not and never will be esports
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

4/18/13 10:04:17 AM#20

Its not a myth, its something developers and publishers have discovered themselves after numerous polls, surveys, and evaluating data from their game servers. 

 

The majority of players in MMOs currently simply don't have any interest in PvP. There is however enough interest in PvP for many developers and publishers to try and include it to get the crowds that like both. 

 

Bread and butter - PvE players

Less market - Mix of PvE and PvP players

Niche market - PvP only

 

 

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