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260 posts found
  nariusseldon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

3/29/13 4:32:30 PM#121
Originally posted by ElderRat
 

I totally agree. I am the player who likes the journey not the terminus. I have always hated how "end-gamers" tend to give you a formula designed to get you the skills and gear that will benefit them and not want you to play to actually experience and enjoy the game in it's entirety. That is my experience and it has ruined many MMO's for me.

You sound like they dictate what you do & enjoy in a game.

There is no reason to put up with anything. You can easily hit a button and quit a group. I don't tolerate anything in a group. If i don't like anyone for any trivial reason. I am gone. It is also a two-way street. Anyone is free to quit on me.

  ksternal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/12
Posts: 81

3/29/13 6:45:20 PM#122
Couldn't agree more. Last enjoyable MMO was submarined by its own people. ( City of Heroes/Villains)
  Jjix

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 144

3/29/13 8:46:58 PM#123
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ElderRat
 

I totally agree. I am the player who likes the journey not the terminus. I have always hated how "end-gamers" tend to give you a formula designed to get you the skills and gear that will benefit them and not want you to play to actually experience and enjoy the game in it's entirety. That is my experience and it has ruined many MMO's for me.

You sound like they dictate what you do & enjoy in a game.

There is no reason to put up with anything. You can easily hit a button and quit a group. I don't tolerate anything in a group. If i don't like anyone for any trivial reason. I am gone. It is also a two-way street. Anyone is free to quit on me.

No offense Nari, but 10k posts and ticking, I think a lot of us wish we could have quit on you a long time ago . . .

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

3/30/13 4:51:07 AM#124
Originally posted by Jjix
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ElderRat
 

I totally agree. I am the player who likes the journey not the terminus. I have always hated how "end-gamers" tend to give you a formula designed to get you the skills and gear that will benefit them and not want you to play to actually experience and enjoy the game in it's entirety. That is my experience and it has ruined many MMO's for me.

You sound like they dictate what you do & enjoy in a game.

There is no reason to put up with anything. You can easily hit a button and quit a group. I don't tolerate anything in a group. If i don't like anyone for any trivial reason. I am gone. It is also a two-way street. Anyone is free to quit on me.

No offense Nari, but 10k posts and ticking, I think a lot of us wish we could have quit on you a long time ago . . .

 

No kidding... his selfish gameplay is the antithesis of roleplaying games.  His every posts is about himself.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/30/13 9:09:56 AM#125

There are mmos, and mmorpgs.

they basically now use "mmo" for anything that plays online... Now first i wouldnt even  call mmo anything that uses mostly instance models for the action rather than actual massive amount of people alltogether fighting. And instanced games are more and more the way most studios make it..

Second, most of the studios outthere makes their game easy, and istant gratification is they key word for most of them. Younger players (and its not discrimination at all), tend towards instant gratification most of the time, But i.e. in WoW, where your quest consist mostly at following bread crumbs from your position to the goal's position, thats not really a quest. "it reminds of me mall maps where you have the "you are here" and you can see detailed information about everything in the mall. they make it too easy, and that gets quickly boring.

Leave the MMORPG creation in MMORPG and RPG people that plays it, like it, love it, live for it. RPG and MMORPG players are not common video gamers they seek something else, something that only MMO players can understand...sometimes disagree totally lol, but understand. No one would ask to an accountant to create a new recipe, they'd ask a chef. You guys want to make an MMORPG ? hire MMORPG lovers. MMORPG players, are much like LARP players, they complain all the time, they always have something to say, but give them a good game that has a feeling, that allows them to have a unique char, that respect their change of moods by offering lots of classes as in DAoC, balanced or not, they will play...tools to bond with other players that fit their styles, little changes at a time (smart and small), so they can adapt and they ll follow you till death.

Nowadays, Big studios aim for the revenues, so they target as large as possible, but when you do that, you have a "general" game with not much deepness in it. You cannot design a mmo the same way you design a single player game.

even regarding movies, for the past 10 years we been assisting to more and more movies with big visual effects, but has a shallow story, no deepness in it, where all that matters are the visual effects. i like my movies the same way i like my games. deep, storytelling, that makes you think and ponder and analyse, rather than a movie where you know after 10 minutes how the movie is gonna end.

 

But i still have hope, there are 2-3 mmorpgs out there that are in the making that seem very interesting, like CU, who seems to be going back and old school mmorpg,

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 472

3/30/13 10:52:07 AM#126
lfg lft gas came to be because of elitest players who cannot stand failing. so they create a pre- built group that meet very tight and specific requirements.. this alone seriously damadged mmos. it put alot of casual gamers off mmos..
  archeageking

Novice Member

Joined: 1/25/13
Posts: 88

3/30/13 10:56:30 AM#127
mmos dying? not WOW? Wow not dying lol
  nariusseldon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

3/30/13 11:02:28 AM#128
Originally posted by Jjix
 

No offense Nari, but 10k posts and ticking, I think a lot of us wish we could have quit on you a long time ago . . .

Why didn't you? The "ignore" button is right there. I have used it before. It works wonder.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

3/30/13 11:23:16 AM#129
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Xobdnas

No, corporate meddling is killing them.

Well, killed them. We haven't had a great one (excluding Vanguard) in 8 years.

 

Planetside 2 is pretty great though.

 Vangaurd may have been great for you and a few people.  The community spoke and it was not great.

The bugs spoke. If the game had launched 8 months later, with cleaned up code as it was supposed to, I do not doubt it would be the top PvE game on the market right now.

  Caldicot

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 414

Hobbes was right, Rousseau was wrong.

3/30/13 11:34:37 AM#130
OP hit the nail on the head.

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

3/30/13 8:46:34 PM#131
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by waynejr2
 

The bugs spoke. If the game had launched 8 months later, with cleaned up code as it was supposed to, I do not doubt it would be the top PvE game on the market right now.

I'm sorry but I very much doubt that. SWG launched in a much worse state and still did better than VG. I think even AO is doing better than VG and that launch is legendary. History would suggest that people can deal with bugs if the game is enjoyable. VG just wasn't very much fun for a lot of people. That doesn't mean it was a bad game for everyone. I'm sure you enjoy it. On this one you are just in the minority.

  laokoko

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1971

3/31/13 7:21:29 AM#132

so wow isn't a mmorpg?

People bash me when I make claim that some people on this forum believe wow isn't a mmorpg.

  Magiknight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 794

3/31/13 11:07:06 PM#133
MMOs are already dead. Only there shadows remain.
  UOvet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 510

4/01/13 10:43:07 AM#134

I'd rather roll with my 56k and ICQ than with what is going on today.

 

There are a couple decent sandboxes coming out though. We'll see.

  jmcdermottuk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 954

4/01/13 11:03:36 AM#135

I just posted a reply to Bill Murphy's latest Rant regarding Destiny, the new title coming soon from Bungie. In his rant he comments on Bungie's reluctance to use the term MMO and their use of the phrase "Persistant World Shooter".

 

After seeing Defiance, a game I quite liked as far as gameplay went, but with a horrible console UI and a broken chat system, and now Destiny, which is being developed for xbox 360 and PS3 (No PC version) I have to wonder.

 

How long before all MMO's are developed for cosoles? Are we looking at a future where all games will be developed primarily for consoles? The console market is much bigger than PC so it's a real possibility. Are we now looking at a future where we get no PC version of new MMO's, or if they do make one it is a dumbed down, console friendly version? What happens to the social aspect of MMO's that are developed for a platform that doesn't have a keyboard?

 

Ever since Miscrosoft decided to enter the console market and bought Bungie so they could force them to make Halo an xbox exclusive title I've had this nagging feeling that we were on a slippery slope as PC gamers. Guess what? I can feel my feet slipping.

  nariusseldon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

4/01/13 11:16:50 AM#136
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

The bugs spoke. If the game had launched 8 months later, with cleaned up code as it was supposed to, I do not doubt it would be the top PvE game on the market right now.

And i have no doubt it would be the same F2P game with little audience. See .. just your opinion vs mine. There is no evidence either way.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

4/01/13 11:19:24 AM#137
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by waynejr2
 

The bugs spoke. If the game had launched 8 months later, with cleaned up code as it was supposed to, I do not doubt it would be the top PvE game on the market right now.

I'm sorry but I very much doubt that. SWG launched in a much worse state and still did better than VG. 

That's because

a) It is one of the biggest IPs in the world, which helped it get through its rough years

b) the company that made it didn't get dissolved right after launch

c) the game didn't get shelved by SOE right after launch

  Mtibbs1989

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2885

4/01/13 11:30:08 AM#138
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

I haven't seen a game with a true community where the primary focus was the world and human interaction and the gameplay came second in MMO in a number of years. Now the gameplay is frist and if it isn't too much trouble maybe you'll be interacting with someone too, and if no ones interacts, join an artificial bubble called a guild and interact in the bubble.

 

Most people don't need MMO to interact online, there are plenty of chat opportunities, facebook, twitter, disqus, liveFire, forums, email, messengers, smartphones, youtube. You have all these ways to interact with people you want, there is way too much noise to make a world where people will be truly immersed and willing to spend time with each other in a game outside of gameplay.

There's no need for it anymore, there are thousands of other and arguably better ways to interact online.

I think the term MMO lives on even though the games are now becomes multiplayer action games, but the idea behind MMO is long gone I think, it's replaced by other communities online that are far easier and more effective way to interact.

 I can agree with you a little bit. However I believe this is just a small trend that will eventually fade away. The mindless consumers will get bored of their little fad and move on. When this happens I do believe that MMO games will be released to support their true players. How long will this take? I don't know however, as you can see many companies can't keep up with the content locust as they blow through every last bit of content they produce in weeks.

 I believe we can simply wait until these players simply get bored of MMO's and leave the genre alone all together. However, as long as they stay interested in the games developers will cater to their every whim over the smaller fraction of true MMO gamers. Which would be pinata boss raids, easily soloable content, shallow/linear worlds, and fancy toys. 

 I just finished a post in a forum earlier stating to someone who did not want the old MMO back, they didn't want open world bosses that they wanted to put forth effort in the "grind". This mentality is what I'm talking about that's "killing" the genre.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/01/13 11:32:42 AM#139
I agree with most of what the OP has stated, but I think (at least for me) I figured out why I am not feeling MMOs anymore. What it boils down to is that I do not think it is possible to re-live the feeling you got from playing your 1st (and maybe 2nd too) MMO years ago. My 1st MMOs were SWG with some vanilla WoW on the side. When I 1st started playing these games, MMOs were a fairly new concept (yes the was UO and others before it, not what I am arguing) for the masses. Playing these games were fresh and exciting to me as I had never played anything like it before. Today we have all these MMOs that are a clone of this or that game of old (mostly WoW, yes) so nothing is NEW to us. What I am getting at is I do not believe you can recreate that nostolgic feeling of playing your 1st mmo. People drop cash on a clone or other uninspired game then get disapointed when they don't get that nostolgic feeling when playing it. I really think we are "chasing the dragon" so to speak, and until something comes along that is fundamentally different, that nostolgic feeling will never be had again. Looking back at SWG, I do not think it was the game itself that I loved so much as the fact that it was my 1st MMO in a time when MMOs were generally new. Does this make sense at all?
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2701

World > Quest Progression

4/01/13 11:33:11 AM#140
I think a lot more MMOs will be on consoles but will not change thier nature. If they come out with a keyboard and mouse you really won't notice anything other than what you turn on. Having exclusive games would be a huge problem however lol.

I don't think PC development is going anywhere any time soon though. It grew 8% this year between MoP, GW2, Minecraft and D3.

On the subject of Vanguard it's the closest thing to EQ in a new game. Anyone that enjoys an open world, open dungeons, danger and grouping outside of instances should check it out.
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