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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Dispelling the 'easy' myth

19 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
362 posts found
  RefMinor

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

3/26/13 3:23:16 PM#21
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4106

3/26/13 3:27:37 PM#22
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

Most games are set up in regions/maps. It's simple enough to move to a more challenging area. There are few mmo's out there that restrict normal pve movement to these areas. The only restrictions I can remember in most games is instanced areas that require level or player numbers. /shrug

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/26/13 3:29:45 PM#23


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by azmundai first ... you list non-MMOs with difficulty settings. I can't really comment on single player games as they bore me to tears. then you list sunwell. the general theme of the complaint is that mmos have become too easy. there are not many people who thought BT/Hyjal/TK/SSC were too easy. Even if there is a final boss on a hard mode that is very hard, the other 98.923% of most new mmos are still way too easy for my taste. im not saying all mmos have to be hard, but overall I havent been able to find one that I consider to be all that challenging outside of a few bosses on hard mode.
Did you read the article?

I guess not.

So i suppose you have all the achievement on all the hard mode stuff? Care to show us?



you have to be the most argumentative person on this site.

yes I read the article.

the first half of it flat out says that dungeons are faceroll compared to 10 man strath.

AGAIN .. hard mode encounters make up ~4% of the game. I haven't had time to raid since Ulduar, which I found adequately difficult (as opposed to the instance before it .. whatever it was called .. tournament something or other /yawn). Beyond that, I don't chase achievements and was never an ultra hardcore raider that cared whether I finished every boss let alone danced with every boss in a specific way for a mount or title. The game used to offer plenty of other challenges which it doesn't offer anymore.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 671

3/26/13 3:30:03 PM#24

Maybe there should be difficulty levels in MMOs similar to single player games. I know it's frustrating trying to play something way too hard, but at the same time it's mind numbing boring to play something with zero challenge.

I'm sure f. ex. WoW has gained lots of new subs by 'dumbing down' their game for casuals who found the game too challenging in the past, but they have also lost lots of people who think it's way too easy now (I'm one of them). Blizzard themselves have stated that more people have played and quit than playing and subbed to WoW currently.

In my opinion a gaming experience which gives no challenge is worthless and just wasted time in every way. Currently i'm playing Civ 5 on 2nd or 3rd hardest level which i can seldom beat, but that's the very reason why i still play this game. Also, I'm playing Candy Crush Saga in Facebook, which sometimes makes me wanting to rip my hair off, but i return to it again and again until i beat the 'impossible level'.

We already have servers with different sets of rules in MMOs. We have PvE, PvP, RP, RP-PvP, and what not. Why not have some servers with more challenging content? And don't say people wouldn't play on such servers. WoW gained 10+ mil. subs before the casualization they are doing now.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/26/13 3:32:30 PM#25


Originally posted by deniter
Maybe there should be difficulty levels in MMOs similar to single player games. I know it's frustrating trying to play something way too hard, but at the same time it's mind numbing boring to play something with zero challenge.

I'm sure f. ex. WoW has gained lots of new subs by 'dumbing down' their game for casuals who found the game too challenging in the past, but they have also lost lots of people who think it's way too easy now (I'm one of them). Blizzard themselves have stated that more people have played and quit than playing and subbed to WoW currently.

In my opinion a gaming experience which gives no challenge is worthless and just wasted time in every way. Currently i'm playing Civ 5 on 2nd or 3rd hardest level which i can seldom beat, but that's the very reason why i still play this game. Also, I'm playing Candy Crush Saga in Facebook, which sometimes makes me wanting to rip my hair off, but i return to it again and again until i beat the 'impossible level'.

We already have servers with different sets of rules in MMOs. We have PvE, PvP, RP, RP-PvP, and what not. Why not have some servers with more challenging content? And don't say people wouldn't play on such servers. WoW gained 10+ mil. subs before the casualization they are doing now.


maybe there could be difficulty servers?

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  User Deleted
3/26/13 3:32:37 PM#26
Do you play with Barbies and Kennys OP ? if you do and no one else here does not,do you think that the reason is because it is too easy? your number magic shows that its pretty hardcore. theres something wrong with your logic.
  easy-r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/12
Posts: 40

3/26/13 3:33:13 PM#27
i am not a myth here i am, the greatest of all time
  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1936

3/26/13 3:34:02 PM#28
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
I think what "those" people want is hardcore content for everything.  I mean raids only compose a small portion of the game.

Really? It is well known that you spend more time in end game than leveling. It is well known that raid is the end game "serious" MMO gamers spend their time on.

How is it small when it takes the most gameplay time? Or btw, throw in the 5-man dungeon achievements, and challenge dungeons .. those are hard.

Didn't the wow developer in vanilla wow era says very small percentage of their player even raid?  That's what I remember them saying. 

And beside the point is those "old game" players spend a majority of the time "not at the end game".  Since leveling actually take a very long time to do in those game.  So they are infact spending quite a bit of their time killing critters.  In fact, the critters are so hard people have to group for them.

The point is those game are hard starting from level1.  The point is wow have easy "and" hard content.  Those "other" game is pretty much hard all the way.  That is the perception from those EQ, ultima online, or darkfall players.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4106

3/26/13 3:34:29 PM#29
Originally posted by deniter

Maybe there should be difficulty levels in MMOs similar to single player games. I know it's frustrating trying to play something way too hard, but at the same time it's mind numbing boring to play something with zero challenge.

I'm sure f. ex. WoW has gained lots of new subs by 'dumbing down' their game for casuals who found the game too challenging in the past, but they have also lost lots of people who think it's way too easy now (I'm one of them). Blizzard themselves have stated that more people have played and quit than playing and subbed to WoW currently.

In my opinion a gaming experience which gives no challenge is worthless and just wasted time in every way. Currently i'm playing Civ 5 on 2nd or 3rd hardest level which i can seldom beat, but that's the very reason why i still play this game. Also, I'm playing Candy Crush Saga in Facebook, which sometimes makes me wanting to rip my hair off, but i return to it again and again until i beat the 'impossible level'.

We already have servers with different sets of rules in MMOs. We have PvE, PvP, RP, RP-PvP, and what not. Why not have some servers with more challenging content? And don't say people wouldn't play on such servers. WoW gained 10+ mil. subs before the casualization they are doing now.

That is an awesome idea! It would pull quite a few of those folks that are on servers like in WoW that get bored and start ganking newbies. I say put them all together and let them at each other like the British did with convicts in Australia. hehe

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

3/26/13 3:35:27 PM#30
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

Most games are set up in regions/maps. It's simple enough to move to a more challenging area. There are few mmo's out there that restrict normal pve movement to these areas. The only restrictions I can remember in most games is instanced areas that require level or player numbers. /shrug

They do require u to be a certain level to do the content. if your 3 levels below an enemy you can do it still quite easely unless he's an elite and even then it doesn't pose too muhc of a problem for certain classes. When u tango with a adversary another level above that u cant even hit the damn thing because of your missrating etc.

so when can i move to a more chalangeing area?

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3788

RIP City of Heroes!

3/26/13 3:41:23 PM#31
Originally posted by maplestone

I've always assumed that people complaining about difficulty are just trolling, looking to belittle anyone who disagerees with them. 

If so, statistics wouldn't affect them.  Either they are part of the 1% and seek to lord it over others or they aren't and don't care about actual accomplishments.

(however, there is a subset of complainers who I think have an issue with the track that new players find themselves on in mature games - especially in quest-driven games, there is rarely a trail of breadcrumbs for both people seeking scenic route and the people who want an adrenaline fix on day one)

 When people bring it up in the context of challenge that might be true.

On the other hand, when people talk in terms of time to level, it means something else. IIRC, EQ1 it took 9 months for the first person to reach cap.  Some people are calling it easy when you could level much quicker than that.  It is easier, from a different point of view.  That doesn't mean challenge, it means time committment.

For those who are going to shoot their mouths off about games not being jobs or you shouldn't have to work, it's just a different taste. 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4106

3/26/13 3:41:46 PM#32
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

Most games are set up in regions/maps. It's simple enough to move to a more challenging area. There are few mmo's out there that restrict normal pve movement to these areas. The only restrictions I can remember in most games is instanced areas that require level or player numbers. /shrug

They do require u to be a certain level to do the content. if your 3 levels below an enemy you can do it still quite easely unless he's an elite and even then it doesn't pose too muhc of a problem for certain classes. When u tango with a adversary another level above that u cant even hit the damn thing because of your missrating etc.

so when can i move to a more chalangeing area?

Well you can't have it both ways! lol

Numbers are the only thing seperating your talents and the mob you are trying to kill. I guess for the devs it's all about tweaking the mobs effective kill rate and not everyone is the same. Sounds like your are stuck in a limbo state between easy and not hard enough then xeniar. :)

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

3/26/13 3:47:00 PM#33
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

Most games are set up in regions/maps. It's simple enough to move to a more challenging area. There are few mmo's out there that restrict normal pve movement to these areas. The only restrictions I can remember in most games is instanced areas that require level or player numbers. /shrug

They do require u to be a certain level to do the content. if your 3 levels below an enemy you can do it still quite easely unless he's an elite and even then it doesn't pose too muhc of a problem for certain classes. When u tango with a adversary another level above that u cant even hit the damn thing because of your missrating etc.

so when can i move to a more chalangeing area?

Well you can't have it both ways! lol

Numbers are the only thing seperating your talents and the mob you are trying to kill. I guess for the devs it's all about tweaking the mobs effective kill rate and not everyone is the same. Sounds like your are stuck in a limbo state between easy and not hard enough then xeniar. :)

well if we talk about uhm SP game difficulty's it seems that normal is becoming more easy. i dont even know what easy is i dare not touch it. and Hard stays hard pretty much. depending on game i geus. but in general games are becoming more easy. 

Is that because i am too good? or the masses wich obviously buy the game just really suck? Im not trying to sound like  a egomaniac here:P

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4106

3/26/13 3:52:59 PM#34
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by nariusseldon
lol .. no one disagree with me yet? That is a refreshing change.

I will slightly disagree to save you disappointment. I agree that there are end game raids insanely difficult and games where you can crank up the level if required, where I disagree is that the levelling part of a MMORPG games are easy, mash buttons, level ping and reward. There should in my opinion be more challenges within the levelling aspects of games.

Most games are set up in regions/maps. It's simple enough to move to a more challenging area. There are few mmo's out there that restrict normal pve movement to these areas. The only restrictions I can remember in most games is instanced areas that require level or player numbers. /shrug

They do require u to be a certain level to do the content. if your 3 levels below an enemy you can do it still quite easely unless he's an elite and even then it doesn't pose too muhc of a problem for certain classes. When u tango with a adversary another level above that u cant even hit the damn thing because of your missrating etc.

so when can i move to a more chalangeing area?

Well you can't have it both ways! lol

Numbers are the only thing seperating your talents and the mob you are trying to kill. I guess for the devs it's all about tweaking the mobs effective kill rate and not everyone is the same. Sounds like your are stuck in a limbo state between easy and not hard enough then xeniar. :)

well if we talk about uhm SP game difficulty's it seems that normal is becoming more easy. i dont even know what easy is i dare not touch it. and Hard stays hard pretty much. depending on game i geus. but in general games are becoming more easy. 

Is that because i am too good? or the masses wich obviously buy the game just really suck? Im not trying to sound like  a egomaniac here:P

No I agree with you in some ways. When you begin playing new games they are getting easier and easier. Like you said they are making them easier for the masses because imho the genre is spreading out. Years ago when I first started playing WoW I would never have thought of one of my younger kids playing because it was to challenging. Now it's common to see 8 year olds online. 

You don't sound like an egomaniac, just a old school player. Things change. /shrug

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1696

3/26/13 4:00:02 PM#35
Originally posted by BadSpock

I've found a lot of people who say MMOs are too "easy" are 10+ year veterans who, after this amout of time, should damn well be quite skilled at playing them.

If it is still "hard" after 10 years, you're doing it wrong...

 

Even 10+ year vets can find something hard. Have a look at DREAM Paragon, the number 1 WoW guild in the world. A month into the new raid tier and they still haven't cleared all 13 heroic bosses. Keep in mind these are the best raiders in the world, with the best gear, are sponsored, and raid 40+ hours a week.

All games, GW2, WoW, etc, have easy content, and hard content.

  Sukiyaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1336

3/26/13 4:05:10 PM#36

"After 6 month only 2% of our player managed to achieve the 'count the grasshalms on your backyard"-title on backyard-hardcore mode requiring you to have finished the "count the grasshalms on your front lawn" encounter. The sparkling green pony reward still remain a rarity exclusive to only the best of the best player! We hope you enjoy the challenge"

"See! Inarguable evidence speaking for the challenging deep complexity of grasshalm counting!  If you dont have this title you are not eligble to call "grasshalmcountring-content" a mindnumbing joke and insult to any players intelligence. You would have it if it was so easy would you? I bet you didnt even try it because your already failed at the front lawn! Haha."

 

Yeah... we certainly never had that one flawed argument up ever before. Not at all.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/26/13 4:14:56 PM#37
Originally posted by Disdena
Oh nonsense. MMOs are easy. Any and all MMO content can be beaten by pressing 1 2 3 1 1 1 1. An internet forum user said so in a dismissive manner, and I have it on good authority that they know everything.

I read the first line and then had to doublecheck the name,

then read the second line and it made more sense. :)

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

 
OP  3/26/13 4:16:31 PM#38
Originally posted by azmundai

maybe there could be difficulty servers?

Or just more difficulty level. It is not like difficulty option is a new thing, even in MMOs. In WOW,you can raid LFR, normal and hard. LFR is easy as pie, and hard is .. well .. you need to practice and run it as a full time job to beat.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

 
OP  3/26/13 4:18:03 PM#39
Originally posted by xeniar
 

well if we talk about uhm SP game difficulty's it seems that normal is becoming more easy. i dont even know what easy is i dare not touch it. and Hard stays hard pretty much. depending on game i geus. but in general games are becoming more easy. 

Is that because i am too good? or the masses wich obviously buy the game just really suck? Im not trying to sound like  a egomaniac here:P

Based on the stat given by the article, most players are not even trying the more difficult settings. Do you beat all your games in "hard"?

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1696

3/26/13 4:18:19 PM#40
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by azmundai

maybe there could be difficulty servers?

Or just more difficulty level. It is not like difficulty option is a new thing, even in MMOs. In WOW,you can raid LFR, normal and hard. LFR is easy as pie, and hard is .. well .. you need to practice and run it as a full time job to beat.

^ This.

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