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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Why end game has ended most mmo games.

9 posts found
  Abuz0r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/12
Posts: 309

 
OP  2/17/13 8:57:50 AM#1

The first MMO I played was ORIGINAL Runescape.  The point was to level up, hang out with your friends, level up.  There was this possibility of someday being max level, but it was seen as unachievable.

  It took weeks and weeks to level, and after you leveled a couple of days, you went and tried your might and got killed and went back to the grind.

I then played a game called Helbreath.  The point was to level up, pvp, hang out with friends, and level up.  Max level was 180, and the EXP was so slow that nobody had ever achieved it.

They soon patched Helbreath, tripled the EXP, then did 10x EXP every weekend or something, everyone got to max level, got bored, and this vibrant game just withered and died.

Wow is the exception, not the rule.  The multiple starting paths and leveling methods mean you can play it as a leveling game, a pvp game, a crafting game, or just zerg through the levels and get to end game.

Most new MMO games I download now, I hear the story; get to max level fast, then you can play the game.

Leveling was never meant to be the application and acceptance test to play a game, leveling was meant to be the MMO game.  Just because some games did a poor job and their leveling is obnoxiously slow and repetitive doesn't detract from this.

The point of a MMO was that you couldn't actually beat the game, you got as far as you wanted to go, and if you got reinvigorated, you kept going.

MAX LEVEL GAMES are about standing around, and waiting for a group to go and do end game content with you - WOW added daily quests, so that this wouldn't always be the case.  After you've done the content and gotten the loot,  the only reason to do it again is to help your friend do the same.  After this, you're standing around waiting for another dungeon from the developers or watching TV while firing back and forth in chat.

The point is, you were never supposed to see the END GAME, you were never supposed to see the END.  The end was never even meant to be in sight.  The amazing mmo games of old were those that if you calculated how long it would take to be maximum level, you'd have grandkids.  So many of those games got patched, and lost that inifinite playability.

WHY IS THE ELDER SCROLLS SO CAPTIVATING TO IT'S FANS? - Mainly because the leveling and grind, knowing you can always get another level, knowing if you make an alt you can go to a different town, a different set of quests, a different and unique build.  TES was what every MMO gamer wished their MMO was like.  I remember playing Morrowind and wishing there were a MMO version of that.  

I am not plugging ESO, I haven't seen it and don't know anything about it.  If the game is about getting to max level in 3 weeks and then running raids a few times to get max gear then showing it off, it'll just be like every other MMO out there that deviated from what made MMO games amazing.

In my wrapping up, I think games need to lose the END GAME, because that is where most MMO games END.  They need to look at their leveling structure, place max level at an unachievable distance (LIKE PATH OF EXILE - the devs clearly stated at least during Closed Beta that max level was 100, but getting there would take decades).  Then allow players to get in the game world and get as far as they can, take a rest, then go a little further, with no end in sight.

 

- EDIT-

I'd like to add to my point that a Theme Park game was only designed to make this 3 weeks of leveling that is your acceptance application more streamlined and simple.  To me, this is the most painful way to ruin a MMO game, not only take away the infinite playability, but give a guided path to the end.  This is the complete opposite of having to go on google and search for monsters around your level, having to search for a player created map because the devs didn't offer one, then setting off in the direction searching for those mobs.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3290

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

2/17/13 9:03:26 AM#2


Originally posted by Abuz0r
In my wrapping up, I think games need to lose the END GAME,

That's never gona happen. mmorpgs are going to die before that hapends because investors want that wow profit. When they realize that markets is dead, We will get very small mmo's.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Abuz0r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/12
Posts: 309

 
OP  2/17/13 7:22:39 PM#3
I disagree, zerging players to end game doesn't improve a games income..
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6018

2/17/13 8:54:04 PM#4
Originally posted by Abuz0r

The first MMO I played was ORIGINAL Runescape.  The point was to level up, hang out with your friends, level up.  There was this possibility of someday being max level, but it was seen as unachievable.

  It took weeks and weeks to level, and after you leveled a couple of days, you went and tried your might and got killed and went back to the grind.

I then played a game called Helbreath.  The point was to level up, pvp, hang out with friends, and level up.  Max level was 180, and the EXP was so slow that nobody had ever achieved it.

They soon patched Helbreath, tripled the EXP, then did 10x EXP every weekend or something, everyone got to max level, got bored, and this vibrant game just withered and died.

Wow is the exception, not the rule.  The multiple starting paths and leveling methods mean you can play it as a leveling game, a pvp game, a crafting game, or just zerg through the levels and get to end game.

Most new MMO games I download now, I hear the story; get to max level fast, then you can play the game.

Leveling was never meant to be the application and acceptance test to play a game, leveling was meant to be the MMO game.  Just because some games did a poor job and their leveling is obnoxiously slow and repetitive doesn't detract from this.

The point of a MMO was that you couldn't actually beat the game, you got as far as you wanted to go, and if you got reinvigorated, you kept going.

MAX LEVEL GAMES are about standing around, and waiting for a group to go and do end game content with you - WOW added daily quests, so that this wouldn't always be the case.  After you've done the content and gotten the loot,  the only reason to do it again is to help your friend do the same.  After this, you're standing around waiting for another dungeon from the developers or watching TV while firing back and forth in chat.

The point is, you were never supposed to see the END GAME, you were never supposed to see the END.  The end was never even meant to be in sight.  The amazing mmo games of old were those that if you calculated how long it would take to be maximum level, you'd have grandkids.  So many of those games got patched, and lost that inifinite playability.

WHY IS THE ELDER SCROLLS SO CAPTIVATING TO IT'S FANS? - Mainly because the leveling and grind, knowing you can always get another level, knowing if you make an alt you can go to a different town, a different set of quests, a different and unique build.  TES was what every MMO gamer wished their MMO was like.  I remember playing Morrowind and wishing there were a MMO version of that.  

I am not plugging ESO, I haven't seen it and don't know anything about it.  If the game is about getting to max level in 3 weeks and then running raids a few times to get max gear then showing it off, it'll just be like every other MMO out there that deviated from what made MMO games amazing.

In my wrapping up, I think games need to lose the END GAME, because that is where most MMO games END.  They need to look at their leveling structure, place max level at an unachievable distance (LIKE PATH OF EXILE - the devs clearly stated at least during Closed Beta that max level was 100, but getting there would take decades).  Then allow players to get in the game world and get as far as they can, take a rest, then go a little further, with no end in sight.

 

- EDIT-

I'd like to add to my point that a Theme Park game was only designed to make this 3 weeks of leveling that is your acceptance application more streamlined and simple.  To me, this is the most painful way to ruin a MMO game, not only take away the infinite playability, but give a guided path to the end.  This is the complete opposite of having to go on google and search for monsters around your level, having to search for a player created map because the devs didn't offer one, then setting off in the direction searching for those mobs.

I would have agreed to this if I were new to the genre.

But I am not new to the genre, and I know from experience that Developers lock content by levels. I want more content not less. so no point taking my time leveling when a max level character gets more freedom than a low level character. I want freedom. I want fun. Level locking mechanics isnt fun, nor free.

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4642

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

2/17/13 9:00:50 PM#5

reaching the endgame in eve takes 22 years.

 

we're all still skilling up.

 

eve's doing well.

 

huh.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6018

2/17/13 9:03:08 PM#6
Originally posted by Robokapp

reaching the endgame in eve takes 22 years.

 

we're all still skilling up.

 

eve's doing well.

 

huh.

in eve endgame starts from the start. doenst need content locks.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4642

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

2/17/13 9:13:38 PM#7
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Robokapp

reaching the endgame in eve takes 22 years.

 

we're all still skilling up.

 

eve's doing well.

 

huh.

in eve endgame starts from the start. doenst need content locks.

can we call that 'endgame' though? or just "the game". (btw I just lost it).

 

also I question the use of "content" here...since most of the gameplay revolves around pvp and supporting/affording pvp.

 

could one claim that eve has neither an endgame nor content in the traditional sense ? 0.o

 

 

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6018

2/17/13 9:22:37 PM#8
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Robokapp

reaching the endgame in eve takes 22 years.

 

we're all still skilling up.

 

eve's doing well.

 

huh.

in eve endgame starts from the start. doenst need content locks.

can we call that 'endgame' though? or just "the game". (btw I just lost it).

 

also I question the use of "content" here...since most of the gameplay revolves around pvp and supporting/affording pvp.

 

could one claim that eve has neither an endgame nor content in the traditional sense ? 0.o

 

 

endgame == Full game.

in Eve full game starts from the start.

maybe thats a better wording.

  Dzone

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/12
Posts: 312

2/17/13 9:38:03 PM#9

I felt like the pace of leveling in FFXI was great. It took me over a year to level, not decades. Plus that game wasn't just about end game, there was a ton of stuff to do as you leveld. That game has lasted 13 years now.... that should tell ya something about vertical progressive mmo's longetivity.

 

PS. Also forced grouping just made the community that much stronger. I much prefer vertical leveling as opposed to GW 2 style anyday.