Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper and more complex. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with the ignorant.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with kids....

I see more adults acting like those so called "kids" you seem to despise so much than I do actual "kids" to be frank.

Of course then again, adults are so used to having a set point of view and are usually not very flexible at later stages of their life, so they are more easily threatened by differing points of view.

Just a thought :P.

Originally posted by greenreen

Reading the OP I couldn't help but think of romantic relationships.

I blame free games on making people less monogamous. Instead of communicating with the developer what you want and don't, you dump the game and find another. You don't have to have anything invested. Instead of helping other people by making guides and class breakdowns, you can just say - buy x y z, done and everyone knows it. Some people have become the perpetual dater in the analogy looking for the "one" and settling for 90% isn't sufficient because new freebies come out often enough to ride another coat tail. You can also leave when you hit the point of having to pay, that glass barrier.

 

Interesting analogy.  What you consider a 'monogamous relationship', other would consider an 'abusive relationship' that you refuse to leave.  When I look back at the crap the old game designs wanted me to endure, I just want to kick the devs in the nuts.

EQ2?  It's community was "ok"  but  EQ / SWG / and EvE  were better,  IMO

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with kids....

I see more adults acting like those so called "kids" you seem to despise so much than I do actual "kids" to be frank.

Of course then again, adults are so used to having a set point of view and are usually not very flexible at later stages of their life, so they are more easily threatened by differing points of view.

Just a thought :P.

I read comments like this from time to time. How on earth do you know that they are adults? lol. Do you literally ask the age of every "qq" via chat?

I've played in several different guilds. There is a reason why almost every single one I joined has an age requirement. Why? Because ever teenager that joins acts and sounds like a complete goof (arrogant).

Originally posted by Alberel

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by delete5230

Longevity and community

No one sticks around anymore....Why ?.........No Community, The last time I have seen an mmo with true community tools were the old Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 days. I'm not talking about liking a game or not, I'm talking about community !....Real servers, very simple.

I'm starting this topic because I'm mad about Elders Scrolls Online.  Mega servers with zoning to find friends.......come on.....Now will have another 30 day mmo on our hands.  So, what's the answer to all this ?......Simply, find yourself a good Guild, Right ?.....OK will have two million players trying to find that good guild, with 1% really finding one. A good Guild will only take you so far when you have thirty people and only two are your level.  Think about this, think real hard. Is this how your good guilds are too ?

 

I think I may be done for good with mmos unless we get a developer that really gets it about community. Maybe its just me but I would like to log in, play with friends make new ones with the guy over there fighting Goblins.  Staying away from Jim because he hoggs the loot, and hanging around with Bob because he is a good tank and is good at finding groups.

Disagree completely with what you said.

First plenty of people stick around and create valid communities, its up to you to find one to be a part of not to have one created around you.  Second, there are plenty of games releasing eveyr year so why wouldnt you want to try them out.  There is nothing that says you "have" to stick to an MMO, plenty do some dont, its our choice.  Lastly Rose tinted glasses are a very evil entity, the things that go on now went on back then but its you who refuse to believe it becasue of those skewed glasses.

The rose tinted glasses argument is always a crutch to counter these threads. It's like a magical argument that instantly invalidates anything someone else might say because they're remembering it wrong... It also happens to be complete BS.

I remember very specific things in MMOs in the pre-WoW era that simply don't happen any more. One of those is random strangers in /say stopping to have a conversation. There's no room for nostalgia to cloud my judgement there; it used to happen and now it doesn't.

Your post also implies you don't understand what people mean by 'community' in the general sense. If you have to deliberately find a community to be a part of then that's a clique not a community. The community is the player population as a whole, it is something you are a part of simply by playing. They used to be much more positive and constructive, people helped each other, and simply by playing the game you would become involved with the community as it was generally beneficial to be social with everyone. Yes there were bad apples there but they were balanced out by the golden apples... these days the general community has almost nothing but bad apples. The result is everyone isolates themselves into cliques called guilds and chooses not to socialise with anyone outside their circle.

You can throw the rose tinted glasses argument around as much as you like. The fact is no MMO released in the post-WoW era has created that same sense of community.

By the way, what's with the whole not having to stick to an MMO? The OP wasn't saying you HAD to, they were implying that you would WANT to because the community kept it fun. MMOs used to have enough to keep you playing for years; the fact that most now only last a couple of months at best says a lot and you'd be a fool to think that was also rose tinted glasses.

 Thats funny because I still see people stopping me in WoW every so often, people I don't know and we strike up conversations.  I do the same to others.

I believe it very much is rose coloured glasses.  The only difference was that games in the past had a smaller player base, smaller player bases create better communities.  Thats it nothing more.

Biggest evidence that communties in the past were often as good/bad as today?  EQ devs had to implement a play nice policy because players were complete dicks to each other. 

Games were not deeper (complete buzzword that one).  Some games in the past had more mechancics, most didn't.  Some games today more mechanics than others. 

It really is just rose colored glasses for a game that you liked, for a particular time in your life when you were younger, more energetic and more passionate.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with kids....

I see more adults acting like those so called "kids" you seem to despise so much than I do actual "kids" to be frank.

Of course then again, adults are so used to having a set point of view and are usually not very flexible at later stages of their life, so they are more easily threatened by differing points of view.

Just a thought :P.

I read comments like this from time to time. How on earth do you know that they are adults? lol. Do you literally ask the age of every "qq" via chat?

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with kids....

I see more adults acting like those so called "kids" you seem to despise so much than I do actual "kids" to be frank.

Of course then again, adults are so used to having a set point of view and are usually not very flexible at later stages of their life, so they are more easily threatened by differing points of view.

Just a thought :P.

I read comments like this from time to time. How on earth do you know that they are adults? lol. Do you literally ask the age of every "qq" via chat?

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Just a ton of speculation.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Just a ton of speculation.

Perhaps, but then again, I don't think we are both seeing the same thing, so for all I know, you see everyone who acts immature as a kid, while I'm seeing adults acting about 1/2 - 1/3 of their actual age.

Again, perception is key here.

Guess the OP has never played LOTRO or STO hmmm

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Just a ton of speculation.

Perhaps, but then again, I don't think we are both seeing the same thing, so for all I know, you see everyone who acts immature as a kid, while I'm seeing adults acting about 1/2 - 1/3 of their actual age.

Again, perception is key here.

 Hmm I don't think perception is the right word.  Your not actually seeing them, just their toon and you are making an inference on their age based on their actions.

So it would be an assumption.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I agree with the OP. EQ2 was the lsat community I was really ever a part of. As of now, I feel like it's just kid-talk, e.g.,bro's brony, lolololz, epic fail, etc.

I can't stand the new generation of gamers. Killed it all for us...because they buy anything.

So the devs should magically cure intolerance too?

No. Games used to be deeper. They are now crafted for middle schoolers. Not much a community with kids....

I see more adults acting like those so called "kids" you seem to despise so much than I do actual "kids" to be frank.

Of course then again, adults are so used to having a set point of view and are usually not very flexible at later stages of their life, so they are more easily threatened by differing points of view.

Just a thought :P.

I read comments like this from time to time. How on earth do you know that they are adults? lol. Do you literally ask the age of every "qq" via chat?

There are tells for age. Younger twats use u, r, cuz etc. and throw in internet jargon anytime they can omgwtfbbq types. They usually don't know the difference in your or you're or their or there or they're. Younger people will comment on anything that resembles something sexual. Older people make up their own jokes and are humored by puns instead of rehashed internet jokes. Older people call out typos and grammar quirks. Older people talk about a job, younger twiddlings talk about school. Older people don't leave as suddenly and give information why if they have to go, younger people leave quickly like a parent is smacking them on the back of the head and usually sign off with cya. Younger people invite everyone around them into the groups, older people talk to the person first and ask if they want to do something, possibly selling them on it talking about the group structure. Older people tell you when they friend you, younger people you get a tell the next day asking you to join up. Older people want you to decline right then if you don't want to group again, they are feeling you out. Older people want you to group with them to guild you, younger people just invite anyone in that takes the bait.

Generalizations, of course, but test them out yourself.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Just a ton of speculation.

Perhaps, but then again, I don't think we are both seeing the same thing, so for all I know, you see everyone who acts immature as a kid, while I'm seeing adults acting about 1/2 - 1/3 of their actual age.

Again, perception is key here.

 Hmm I don't think perception is the right word.  Your not actually seeing them, just their toon and you are making an inference on their age based on their actions.

So it would be an assumption.

I think I also mentioned that I also hear their actual voices over vent the fews times I was able to raid, so I can get a rough gauge on their ages. Granted there ARE some really squeaky voiced adults and deep voiced teenagers and everything in between, but it does work up to a point.

 

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by mmoDAD

Originally posted by Yakkin

I can check the ages of the people on this site, and disregarding people making up their ages for some reason (Age 100, really?), a lot of people here don't exactly ACT their ages, now do they?

Plus I can get a rough gauge of a person's age whenever I hop into their vent channel on occasion.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it has grains of truth in it :).

Just a ton of speculation.

Perhaps, but then again, I don't think we are both seeing the same thing, so for all I know, you see everyone who acts immature as a kid, while I'm seeing adults acting about 1/2 - 1/3 of their actual age.

Again, perception is key here.

 Hmm I don't think perception is the right word.  Your not actually seeing them, just their toon and you are making an inference on their age based on their actions.

So it would be an assumption.

I think I also mentioned that I also hear their actual voices over vent the fews times I was able to raid, so I can get a rough gauge on their ages. Granted there ARE some really squeaky voiced adults and deep voiced teenagers and everything in between, but it does work up to a point.

 

 Hearing a voice would probably be more reliable yes. 

As a previous said I do tend to agree also with some of the words and topics choices, not always as I do know some adults that are terrible spellers (and of course this is typing so we have to allow for typing mistakes) and with the internet jargon (u, r, 8...), talking about school vs work, and I completely agree with the inviting everyone around you to a group. 

It is likely a safe assumption but there is a lot of room for error.  :)

Originally posted by tordurbar

How many real life friends do you have? Most people have one or two. It is the same situation as guilds/communities in mmos. A true, real friend in life is as rare as a guild that fits you perfectly. I used to join guilds a lot and out of the dozens that I joined I stuck with only two of them for more than a year. In one case I had to move off the server and in the other the guild dissolved due to the founders had to quit. Since then, not being a raider or pvp zealot, I have found nothing. All of the casual guilds that I joined soon turned hard core, fell apart or ignored me. Of course it is part me - but I stuck with two guilds so maybe not so much.

As mentioned above, it is not the developers that are against communities, it is the players. I played WOW for 7 years and came back for a time with MOP. The MOP community was almost virulent. The chat is full of hard core raiders, hard core pvp or rants. Legends tell of Barrens chat but at least we had Chuck Norris jokes - now it is just insults.

Developers do have part of the blame. Now there are more guild perks than ever. What this has caused is that casual guilds are no longer casual. if you do not do everything you can to move the guild to a higher level you are essentially ignored or kicked out.

What is happening in mmo's is just a reflection of what is happening in the world. The world as a whole is becoming more dog eat dog as population soars and the world economy collapses. Yes there are pockets of civility in the world and there are some in mmos as well - they are just extremely hard to find.

I would agree, let me add that civility is an illusion. We are human being and as such when the shit hits the fan it will be every person to himself. There will be pockets of people banding together because they are family and friends. However when people are faced with death, decay, starvation they will do anything and I do mean anything to survive.

 

Communication in MMO's I have to agree has fallen. I will not blame the developers though. That's like blaming the people who make cell phones for the addition of texting. I remember when you just text a simple sentence. Now you text paragraphys, conversations...no talking and when you call the person they have nothing to say. What is that...

 

Guilds in order to succeed needs a form of committment to the over all goal. If you don't do the guild dailies there are no reprocussions. People stick together because they ultimately need each other to survive. Not many people can survive on their own with no assistance. Games used to be heavily group oriented back then. Now its more so single player. We as gamers have grown up and what has happened...we needed to get jobs  and the gaming industry changed in order to compensate for that which then leads into the generation behind us not knowing what it feels like to "E- work" for something lol.

 

We as older games are to blame but not by choice but by the fact that we have changed and the industry needed to change as well in order to support our evolving demands.

 

sorry for sloppy wording and mistakes...sleepy

I'll bet mmoDAD would go to Disneyland and complain that the place was full of loud, obnoxious kids. Damn those loud little bastards!! lol

I have to disagree. Games like Ultima Online, Everquest and Vanilla Wow had some of the worst communities. The only way to avoid them was to join a guild or join the RP server (if they had one), or find a niche game that didn't cater to the typical MMO crowd at the time.

Also you are complaining about something that isn't very wide spread. Yes the ESO is using this new technology so everyone is on one mega server but there are dozens of games released and in development that still have standard servers. You are blowing this out of proportion.

The problem with MMOs is not the new school gamers, the problem are the jaded vets who won't stick with a game for more than a month. Older MMOs weren't deeper or more complex, we've all just grown to expect more from our games.

The problem I feel is the over saterations as MMos on the market, particularly of free options. It means there is a far less concentrated player base on one game then there was on the past, even with a bigger player base to go off of. This makes it difficult to really build dedicated communities so things like guilds just are a lot harder to have consistant players in place, or ones at least dedicated to the guild they are in.

Originally posted by pb1285n
I have to disagree. Games like Ultima Online, Everquest and Vanilla Wow had some of the worst communities. The only way to avoid them was to join a guild or join the RP server (if they had one), or find a niche game that didn't cater to the typical MMO crowd at the time.

The guilds were a handy and insular way to protect yourself from People You Didn't Like (PYDL™).

In vanilla WoW we joined them in droves, because we were afraid of "b.net kiddies'. It was great, the whole point of isularity was to allow you easy access to those who similarly disliked Those People™, so we could gab about how horrible they were.

(EQ1 players, as I understand it, got a couple of years of head start doing this, discussing how horrible Those People™ were, before WoW even opened. "b.net kiddies", as a phrase, I first encountered somewhere else entirely...again substantially before WoW even opened.)

Didn't work in the long term; every time we stepped out of guild chat, we had to deal with Those People™ again.

Originally posted by pb1285n
The problem with MMOs is not the new school gamers, the problem are the jaded vets who won't stick with a game for more than a month. Older MMOs weren't deeper or more complex, we've all just grown to expect more from our games.

Whups. Ever notice that you can almost never agree with someone who knows what the Real Problem™ is? Simple answers, complex questions.

EQ2 still has a good community, sorry the game is so quest orientated it's boring.  I was there for vanilla WoW and it never had a community.  Not once.  Ever.  FFXI was where it was at for community.  Still, I could find holes in every game where a person might slip thru the cracks.  But Final Fantasy rocked all when making strangers into friends.