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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Turned off by too many features

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31 posts found
  Daranar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/11
Posts: 176

 
OP  2/07/13 9:12:14 PM#1

Anyone else notice that when a game promises an abundance of features it often is a let down?   Think of the great games such as EQ, WoW, or DAoC.   None of these came out yapping about a million different features.   But what they did do is give total freedom within the features included.   DAoC will never be beat in PvP, EQ kicked ass in group play and raids and well everything else (will always be that guy living in 1999 lol) and WoW...well it did marketing well lol...but honestly it was a great solid game.  

The point im attempting to make in so many words is that so many games now come out offering some unique class or combat system (which never is unique), player housing, player cities or even nations, create governments, have pets, the ability to craft homes, ships, custom underwear, and of course "Revolutionary" or some other bull shit adjective to describe a half hearted PvP system.   While features are great, you can realistically do this all in one game!  Or can you?   And before I go any further you may suggest some games that did it, and i will respectfully disagree to all except one: Star Wars Galaxies.   Never have I seen a crafting system as awesome as SWG, or a variety of classes and levling system that i thoroughly enjoyed, or such an intense pet system, or an incredible system of housing and player run towns, not to mention the economy.   But what this all leads me to say is gaming has become so corporate now that its all about turning a quick profit (as we see with SWTOR) and then virtually abandoning the game.   Because of this companies promise us amazing features that are as shallow as my cat's water dish.

So if you are going to make a great MMORPG, create great in depth systems.   Stop half assing features so that you can cram pack them at launch.   Thats what expansions are for!  Give me a great crafting system I can get lost in, not just giving me 1 or 2 housing schematics so that you can say you have player housing.   Give me 10 starting classes to choose from instead of 4 so you can add a half-asses PvP system that no one is going to play.   Wake up devs!

 

Sorry, Rant Over.

If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2824

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/07/13 9:15:22 PM#2
Thats why all sandboxes inevitably fail.  Promise to much and deliver a hodge podge of a mess.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

2/07/13 9:43:46 PM#3

I agree that it's all about turning a quick buck.

 

Features are fish hooks.  The more you have the more likely you are to catch more fish (box buyers).  It's the new norm.  Over-extend the feature set, sell a ton of boxes, shove the money in the bank, then 3 months in reviews start popping up that the game is chocked full of features that don't really deliver what is expected.

 

But by that point, it doesn't matter.  The money is already in the bank with plenty more to be made with the new expansion, chocked full of features... (rinse and repeat).

 

One other situation that I see is that Indies get "large hot dog" disease.  They want to prove that they can deliver an amazing feature set just like the AAA devs, but in the end everything falls apart as a buggy mess.  Pumping a big ego is almost as bad as trying to make a quick buck, but just as damaging to one's reputation.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  GwapoJosh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 1010

2/07/13 9:49:51 PM#4
Originally posted by azzamasin
Thats why all sandboxes inevitably fail.  Promise to much and deliver a hodge podge of a mess.

I still have hope for The Repopulation.. Most of the features they have promised are already in game.  Obviously I could still be let down but I still have hope!

"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

  paulytheb

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 212

2/07/13 10:00:48 PM#5
Originally posted by azzamasin
Thats why all sandboxes inevitably fail.  Promise to much and deliver a hodge podge of a mess.

Oh, give it a break already. You don't like sandboxes. We get it.

 

Tell me again how big a failure Eve is.

( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

2/07/13 10:13:05 PM#6
You can't make that comparison. The industry has changed so drastically, it's almost unrecognizable. Games like Everquest and Ultima Online and even DAOC didn't tout their features during development because they had no one to market it to, the genre was too new, they were the pioneers., Even if they did there was no money for marketing. It was all word of mouth. Even if they did have money for a big advertising campaign, what they would have been pushing is the massive multiplayer world you could play in, because that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Not so much anymore.
  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

2/07/13 10:16:29 PM#7

There are some features I just tune out really because they never exist in a way they want you to believe they are.

Crafting: It's always "Collect X amount of Y unrefined resource to put together Z final product." Would be cool to have patterns and be able to choose the materials you make it with.

Class System: It's always "Skill trees or Freedom based on your stats" and never a free for all, and when it is a free for all, it's complete chaos or players just follow a pattern anyways. Would be cool to have skills just adjust depending on stats.

PvP: It's the same thing "Scaling PvP/FvF/WvW/GvG/FFA". Would be cool to have new modes of combat more than CTF, Kill 'em All, and Oddball.

Not much new comes out because players like a certain amount of familiarity.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  nilden

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 977

2/07/13 10:19:15 PM#8
It's not about how many features a game has it's about how good they are.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Daranar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/11
Posts: 176

 
OP  2/07/13 10:25:58 PM#9
Originally posted by pb1285n
You can't make that comparison. The industry has changed so drastically, it's almost unrecognizable. Games like Everquest and Ultima Online and even DAOC didn't tout their features during development because they had no one to market it to, the genre was too new, they were the pioneers., Even if they did there was no money for marketing. It was all word of mouth. Even if they did have money for a big advertising campaign, what they would have been pushing is the massive multiplayer world you could play in, because that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Not so much anymore.

Then perhaps instead of marketing these half-assed features, they need to actually come up with something revolutionary to market.   Taking a system thats over used and adding your "twist" isn't revolutionary.  Rift kept talking about their class system as revolutionary...but it really wasn't.  It was shit we have seen over and over with a bit of a twist.   When Pepsi came out, it was revolutionary, when Pepsi Max came out, it was just a stunt...im tired of stunts.   I do feel it is a fair comparison, someone needs to step up and really take MMOs to the next level like EQ and UO did.  

Of course I say all this in hopeful anticipation of the MMO Evil Giant's future release, EQ Next.   SOE is of course claiming they will do what EQ1 did, revolutionize Multiplayer RPGs.  They have afterall scratched the game twice to avoid becoming just another cookie cutter MMO.  Here's to hopes for a change in the norm.

If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!

  paulytheb

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 212

2/07/13 10:29:06 PM#10
Originally posted by Daranar
Originally posted by pb1285n
You can't make that comparison. The industry has changed so drastically, it's almost unrecognizable. Games like Everquest and Ultima Online and even DAOC didn't tout their features during development because they had no one to market it to, the genre was too new, they were the pioneers., Even if they did there was no money for marketing. It was all word of mouth. Even if they did have money for a big advertising campaign, what they would have been pushing is the massive multiplayer world you could play in, because that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Not so much anymore.

Then perhaps instead of marketing these half-assed features, they need to actually come up with something revolutionary to market.   Taking a system thats over used and adding your "twist" isn't revolutionary.  Rift kept talking about their class system as revolutionary...but it really wasn't.  It was shit we have seen over and over with a bit of a twist.   When Pepsi came out, it was revolutionary, when Pepsi Max came out, it was just a stunt...im tired of stunts.   I do feel it is a fair comparison, someone needs to step up and really take MMOs to the next level like EQ and UO did.  

Of course I say all this in hopeful anticipation of the MMO Evil Giant's future release, EQ Next.   SOE is of course claiming they will do what EQ1 did, revolutionize Multiplayer RPGs.  They have afterall scratched the game twice to avoid becoming just another cookie cutter MMO.  Here's to hopes for a change in the norm.

I like you. +1 an a beer on me.

But Pepsi was a Coke clone....

( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20242

2/07/13 10:29:40 PM#11
Originally posted by paulytheb

 

Tell me again how big a failure Eve is.

Let see .. it was released what .. 7-8 years ago .. and it is stuck at what ... less than 500k players after all these years.

Even MMO failure like TOR has more players .. and sold 2M boxes in its first month.

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

2/10/13 5:11:03 PM#12
Originally posted by Daranar
Originally posted by pb1285n
You can't make that comparison. The industry has changed so drastically, it's almost unrecognizable. Games like Everquest and Ultima Online and even DAOC didn't tout their features during development because they had no one to market it to, the genre was too new, they were the pioneers., Even if they did there was no money for marketing. It was all word of mouth. Even if they did have money for a big advertising campaign, what they would have been pushing is the massive multiplayer world you could play in, because that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Not so much anymore.

Then perhaps instead of marketing these half-assed features, they need to actually come up with something revolutionary to market.   Taking a system thats over used and adding your "twist" isn't revolutionary.  Rift kept talking about their class system as revolutionary...but it really wasn't.  It was shit we have seen over and over with a bit of a twist.   When Pepsi came out, it was revolutionary, when Pepsi Max came out, it was just a stunt...im tired of stunts.   I do feel it is a fair comparison, someone needs to step up and really take MMOs to the next level like EQ and UO did.  

Of course I say all this in hopeful anticipation of the MMO Evil Giant's future release, EQ Next.   SOE is of course claiming they will do what EQ1 did, revolutionize Multiplayer RPGs.  They have afterall scratched the game twice to avoid becoming just another cookie cutter MMO.  Here's to hopes for a change in the norm.

You need to work on your comparisons. Pepsi wasn't revolutionary, it was just a new twist on Root Beer, Dr. Pepper, and Coke that came before it but I understand what you are saying.

I just think it's a little more complicated than saying come up with something revolutionary. If it was that easy, we wouldn't be having this discussion I guess.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15845

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/10/13 5:15:58 PM#13
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by paulytheb

 

Tell me again how big a failure Eve is.

Let see .. it was released what .. 7-8 years ago .. and it is stuck at what ... less than 500k players after all these years.

Even MMO failure like TOR has more players .. and sold 2M boxes in its first month.

You can't be serious, EVE has steadily grown over it's lifetime, that growth has been continuous, the studio itself went from an unknown indie into practically mainstream due to it's managament of that game. Very few games or studios have had such a track record in this genre.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  supertouchme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/10/08
Posts: 69

2/10/13 6:43:34 PM#14
in mmo circles, "innovation" and "convenience" are virtually synonymous. people clamor for things like LFD and instant travel options but those things aren't necessary for creating a worthwhile mmo and they even detract from the experience in some cases. i've actually heard people claim that swtor failed simply because it didn't have lame fucking "quality of life" features. this genre is in a sad state and needs to be blown up.
  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1302

2/10/13 7:19:05 PM#15

DAoC did not have the best PvP. I have no idea why people state so. It was ultimately just a gigantic Battleground.

No thanks. I want some true World PvP, .e.g, multiple factions fighting over the resources of the land, the ability to fortify any area, the ability to sneak inside an opposing faction's main city etc.

I'm sick of this instanced garbage.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20242

2/10/13 11:33:30 PM#16
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by paulytheb

 

Tell me again how big a failure Eve is.

Let see .. it was released what .. 7-8 years ago .. and it is stuck at what ... less than 500k players after all these years.

Even MMO failure like TOR has more players .. and sold 2M boxes in its first month.

You can't be serious, EVE has steadily grown over it's lifetime, that growth has been continuous, the studio itself went from an unknown indie into practically mainstream due to it's managament of that game. Very few games or studios have had such a track record in this genre.

Continuous growth to a small sub? So what? EQ reached 500k much faster. Do you think a company prefer quick growth or slow growth?

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20242

2/10/13 11:35:32 PM#17
Originally posted by supertouchme
in mmo circles, "innovation" and "convenience" are virtually synonymous. people clamor for things like LFD and instant travel options but those things aren't necessary for creating a worthwhile mmo and they even detract from the experience in some cases. i've actually heard people claim that swtor failed simply because it didn't have lame fucking "quality of life" features. this genre is in a sad state and needs to be blown up.

"sad" from your point of view. "Convenience" is good, from my point of view.

LFD/instance travel .. .is a preference. I prefer the. You don't.

In fact, TOR will be a much better game if it is made an online RPG, instead of a MMO.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7545

2/10/13 11:37:05 PM#18
Originally posted by azzamasin
Thats why all sandboxes inevitably fail.  Promise to much and deliver a hodge podge of a mess.

Hmm this sandbox I'm playing has twice as many players as WoW.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15845

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/10/13 11:44:54 PM#19
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Distopia

You can't be serious, EVE has steadily grown over it's lifetime, that growth has been continuous, the studio itself went from an unknown indie into practically mainstream due to it's managament of that game. Very few games or studios have had such a track record in this genre.

Continuous growth to a small sub? So what? EQ reached 500k much faster. Do you think a company prefer quick growth or slow growth?

First of all Eve is in a genre (space sim-like) that isn't nearly as popular as the Fantasy RPG , second what companies want is steady income that doesn't drastically drop. Growth is good, whether it's slow or fast. Third you're moving the goal posts here, you were trying to say EVE wasn't successful.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Newfr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 126

2/10/13 11:53:04 PM#20
Originally posted by bcbully

Hmm this sandbox I'm playing has twice as many players as WoW.

Shoo, shoo! Your beloved AoW isn't a sandbox. That's for a start. Plus F2P never annonce current number of active and paying players. Only number of registrated players. And that is a complete BS if you ask me.

 

P.S. About EVE. It is successful sandbox game. Very niche game, but still successful. Sad thing is that it's the only one i can remember (arguably you can add Anarchy Online) as a successful sandbox MMORPG. Exceptio regulum probat.

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