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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » How to eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold website's

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38 posts found
  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6264

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

 
OP  1/30/13 12:17:47 PM#1

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

  Aeonblades

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2125

1/30/13 12:19:53 PM#2
Originally posted by Reklaw

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

The only way to eliminate cash shops is to not have one altogether, and make every item in game no drop or trade, even money unless used on NPC's. I doubt a game like that would survive long though.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2015

1/30/13 12:22:18 PM#3

Play their games, don't spend money.  If a game becomes no fun because you aren't spending, play something else, or go read a book, watch a movie, go out somewhere.

 

In other words, boycott the hell out of them until they go broke.  It will work if enough people get fed up and the whales get bored of buying their shinies.  Which could eventually happen, I mean how stupid do you have to be to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars for pixel shinies?

 

Oh, and create no cash shop guilds to shelter people from the inevitable peer pressure guilds put on players to spend money on things like siege in GW2 WvW, on gear, on speeding up leveling, on anything.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12853

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/30/13 12:25:15 PM#4
Originally posted by Reklaw

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

Make a crappy game that has nothing people want to pay extra for.

I don't get it, man. If you don't like the item malls, don't play those games. Why do you have this need to make sure others can't have what they enjoy?

 

 

Cool Crowfall info and speculation - http://www.thewulfden.com/search/label/Crowfall

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6264

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

 
OP  1/30/13 12:26:55 PM#5
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Reklaw

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

The only way to eliminate cash shops is to not have one altogether, and make every item in game no drop or trade, even money unless used on NPC's. I doubt a game like that would survive long though.

I should have mentioned this in OP as it seems the most logical one yet the most impractical one because I do believe people like to trade/craft or aquire items to gain wealth. Else we might aswell stick with regular multiplayer games.

So lets asume a full player run virutal sandbox type of MMORPG how would you counter my OP?

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2015

1/30/13 12:31:14 PM#6

Actually, to be fair (because I have a TSW symbol as my avatar), even though The Secret World was clearly designed not for me but for social gamers, their cash shop, at least last time I played, was great.  Lots of fluff and vanity.  I'm not sure what will happen now that it is buy to play and not a sub game, though.  

 

 

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  ZombieKen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4413

Zombie - Dead. Just dead.

1/30/13 12:31:33 PM#7

I don't think it's possible to do both.  A game with no or limited cash shop will drive up player demand for 3rd party gold sellers.  If WoW couldn't stop it, I really don't see how any developer publisher would be able to.

 

The only approach I see to removing 3rd party gold selling completely, is to eliminate player trading entirely in a full subscription game.  You loot it, you own it, when time comes to gid rid of it, you vendor it.  I'm doubtful on how well that would work.

 

http://www.LMORPG.com My genre blog.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6264

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

 
OP  1/30/13 12:33:34 PM#8
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Reklaw

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

Make a crappy game that has nothing people want to pay extra for.

I don't get it, man. If you don't like the item malls, don't play those games. Why do you have this need to make sure others can't have what they enjoy?

 

 

You are wrong about me, I want them to be there for those who like them. I don't play them unless I am able to aquire the same things ingame. But I don't need them changed for my desire. I even play them but to a point that if a cashshop hinders my enjoyment and I have no sub-fee full acces options then I'm out, regardless that if I want I got money to burn but simply as it goes against my purpose of gaming.

It's not about changing what we have. It's about those who are against them to actually come up with  idea for a MMORPG not to have it. Since there are allot of complaints.

  Scottgun

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 355

1/30/13 12:42:25 PM#9
I kinda liked EvE's PLEX system. I don't think I saw a gold seller once after they put that in. On the other hand, I stopped playing when I realized the best way to maximize your isk-per-hour was not from mining, missioning, trading, etc.--It was from working a real-life minimum wage job an extra two hours and then buying and selling Plex, thus revealing EvE online for the slavish gerbil-wheel it was.

Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  nariusseldon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

1/30/13 1:10:17 PM#10
Originally posted by Reklaw

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

Blizz tried with the RMAH in D3. What happened? Some people complained, and there are still some gold spammer. I suppose gold spammers are not as bad because now they have to compete with every other player.

 

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1783

1/30/13 1:26:11 PM#11

There was a couple that I used to game with all the time. The guy used to always rant about how those companies were put there by the game makers as a way to make under the table money. lol My response to him had always been it was just the poorer countries doing it. I thought he was just living some conspiracy theory until he started showing me companies that weren't anywhere outside the states. One was even based in Colorado, was a bit of an eye opener that it isn't just the people that will do anything cheaply running gold selling groups. They could be your next door neighbors.

The game can eliminate them by making the item of little value. Simplest way I can think of. Of course they can be active with bans and charge a box price to keep as many free-loaders out of the joint as possible. Filtering any domain name can be done in chat or gathering a whitelist would help. With enough regex I'm sure you could block any minor attempts at obfuscation. One strike and you are out, no second chances. One human being watching all chat would settle the human factor and implement new schemes as needed. That's what interns are for, to get experience doing menial tasks. Finally, be the cheapest if you sell something.

 

 

 

  Superman0X

Elite Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 1416

1/30/13 1:57:57 PM#12
Originally posted by Reklaw

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

 

Third party websites are there because there is money to be made.  As long as there is money, they will be present.

 

There are some games that have fixed the issue. I will give an example: Entropia Universe. They do not have an issue because they have balanced the economy and in game items with effective sinks. Everything in the game wears out, and requires currency to repair. The only item sold is currency, which can be earned in game... but not 'farmed' as earning it requires that you wear out the equipment used.... and so the cycle continues.

 

The issue for subscription games is that they have a preconcieved notion that players should be able to 'earn' value. When this is coupled with a free economy, it creates a situation where somone can 'earn' value, then sell it. They generally dont have as many issues with fraud, because the slower velocity of purchase.

 

The issue for cash shop games is that they have both the 'earned' value, as well as 'purchased' value bought for real money. They may have the same problems as subscription games, but they may also have issues with fraud. The use of stolen credit cards allows a situtaution where stolen items can be sold before the card is charged back.

 

All games that have items that can be traded also have issues with stolen accounts. If accounts can be stolen, and the items sold, then that is another way that they can make money. Games deal with this in two common ways: Not allow some/any trade. Only allow trade through the auction house (i.e. no direct trade). Neither of these are perfect, but I personally prefer the auction house only method...

 

Overall, there is no good easy fix. If there was, everyone would do it. There are some solutions that work better than others, but they all create limitations/restrictions on gameplay.

 

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

1/30/13 2:24:01 PM#13

I guess primary problem here is KID who wants all and now! and this guy don't really want to earn anything, as use of parents credit card is way easier.
2nd version is busy adult who want to look as advanced player and don't mind to spend like 100$ per month for game (well I saw all kind, even these who spent 3k on silly pixels).

I mean if nobody gonna buy gold from gold sellers websites, they will not have market and will stop to pay for client + sub. I hope we don't need to mention how dangerous are these sites. I myself got once to one of these as I Google'ed "WoW Cataclysm dungeon or raid", can't remember. When I understood what kind of site I visiting it was already too late! I never registered there and got my antivirus and firewall, nothing helped, next days I was hacked at WoW for less then 5 min on gold seller site.

But people keep use these sites, got hacked, complain and begging in game after it = earn more free gold and pay again to buy his own earning, funny but true.

About item shop games: I got pwned once, and now I'm totally immune, so I can spend like 10$ / month on game or like 100$ once per year if it hook me. If it so so I spend 0.
I still have "WoW value" means I think "is it better to pay here or pay WoW sub instate". Most of the time WoW won.
I try to use VIP payment instate of item shop and avoid "buy to win" games.

I think game is for fun, have value and need to be payed, so I'm agree to pay some money for it. As WoW cost 15$ and has A+++ services, others must cost less. That how I doing now. Problem is: nothing is better then WoW so far, at least for me, nothing can hook me anymore.

GW2 was my last payment for game, and I feel like they push me to item shop so I took decision to use it only with in game money.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

1/30/13 3:51:06 PM#14

One thing you could do is eliminate common currencies and introduce more of a bartering system where only similar items can be traded. It's a bit of a pain in the butt, but, it gets rid of the need for a currency.

  • Weapons and armor for other weapons and armor.
  • Potion exchange.
  • Food/buffs for other food/buffs that help you.
  • Crafting mats for other crafting mats.

Another idea is to de-emphasize gear. Instead of godly stats, just use smaller increments to keep gear comparable. Something like horizontal progression where stats aren't the be all end all.

I dunno. No real good system exists without putting players at odds because of something else...

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

1/30/13 4:05:48 PM#15
Originally posted by Madimorga

Play their games, don't spend money.  If a game becomes no fun because you aren't spending, play something else, or go read a book, watch a movie, go out somewhere.

 

In other words, boycott the hell out of them until they go broke.  It will work if enough people get fed up and the whales get bored of buying their shinies.  Which could eventually happen, I mean how stupid do you have to be to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars for pixel shinies?

 

Oh, and create no cash shop guilds to shelter people from the inevitable peer pressure guilds put on players to spend money on things like siege in GW2 WvW, on gear, on speeding up leveling, on anything.

All this will do is keep you from playing. Not everyone thinks free to play actually means the whole game should be free and spending any money on the game is a rip off.

People spend money on entertainment...what that entertainment actually is doesn't matter if they're having fun. There's more to do with money than just surviving or hording it in a pillow till we're too old to enjoy it.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 5136

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/30/13 4:10:55 PM#16
Originally posted by firefly2003
Originally posted by Reklaw

If I can gain everything ingame while merly playing I have nothing against them.

But I would like to know how we can counter them in future released games.

My first ever idea when I started to get anoyed by goldscam spammers/adds/ingamemails was why don't developer offer such services as there seems to be a demand for it else nobody would do it. So obviously I wasn't the only one thinking that way. I'm sure someone or some gaming company already thought of that even before it crossed my mind. But regardless of that, I do believe that made the start for ingame cashshops.

But it's growing out of hand in my opinion, where it use to be illegal to aquire certain ingame items for real life cash which was something most people even if they had the desire wouldn't go for due to the to penalty's if caught.

Let's face it most people will take the easy route if presented regardless their excuses.

But lets stick to the topic,

How do you think you could eliminate cashshops and 3rd party gold/item website's?

 

 

[mod edit]

It's never been illegal.  However hacking the websites and sending them viruses would be illegal.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

1/30/13 10:37:54 PM#17

To eliminate either of those things, players simply need to stop patronizing them.  Don't see that happening.

 

Devs could counter gold sellers, though, by removing gold from the in game economy.  Simple barter system.  Would inconvenience players who like auction house type systems, though.

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 2022

1/30/13 11:22:23 PM#18
Originally posted by Aeonblades

The only way to eliminate cash shops is to not have one altogether, and make every item in game no drop or trade, even money unless used on NPC's. I doubt a game like that would survive long though.

 

I think another way would be to add a sub option that switch the prices from the cash shop currency to game currency.   I know some publishers are trying a P2P server, but I don't think the solution is to split up the community.  

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 656

1/30/13 11:39:29 PM#19

Path of Exile way seem to be working wonders against gold farmer ... there is no gold.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 5136

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/30/13 11:59:28 PM#20

There was no gold in CoH either and there were farmers still.

Whether it's gold, influence or materials.  If there is something that is a grind to get and has a value, if a farmer believes there will be a customer there is a farmer.  You cannot have the ability to trade without also having the possibility of a farmer.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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