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Rift (Rift)
Trion Worlds | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 03/01/11)  | Pub:Trion Worlds
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download | Retail Price:Free | Pay Type:Free | Monthly Fee:Free
System Req: PC | Out of date info? Let us know!

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32 posts found
  Ledox

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 4

2/07/13 5:39:48 PM#21
Originally posted by DamonVile

Well to side step the stupid argument that's about to happen...

 

Pay to win originaly didn't litterally mean you pay money and win. It meant you are able to buy advantages in game with real money.

Better gear, do more damage, have more health ect ect.

People have confused the meaning now so that some will argue if you have any chance to lose it's not pay to win...because you didn't win.

There are many things that people will include in p2w like xp boosts that don't actually help you win in a pvp match but most of the time those complaining are just doing it because someone has something they don't. It really doesn't have anything to do with an actual advantage.

My personal opinion on p2w is if a game goes down that road I stop playing. But it does have to actually have items that quallify as pay 2 win, not just a complainer on the forums.

+1

Old School RPG Player

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

2/07/13 5:44:43 PM#22
If you can get what someone bought from the cash shop ingame, its not pay to win at all. P2W is when you can buy stuff (that CANT be acquire ingame) from the cash shop that will make you more powerful than the ones who can't. That is P2W. Everything else isn't P2W.
  bliss14

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 527

Ahh devil ether.

2/07/13 5:52:34 PM#23
Originally posted by SirFubar
If you can get what someone bought from the cash shop ingame, its not pay to win at all. P2W is when you can buy stuff (that CANT be acquire ingame) from the cash shop that will make you more powerful than the ones who can't. That is P2W. Everything else isn't P2W.

That is P2BBQ.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2860

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

2/07/13 6:00:23 PM#24

Pay to Win is very subjective. There are many degrees of it and people will react negatively at certain levels, while some will even jump on it. I'd have to list it in roughly three catagories. They aren't the best designed catagories, mind you, but I think they work as good stepping stones in which games might contain elements of all three.

 

Pay For Power:  This is probably the biggest area where people draw out the "Pay 2 Win" argument. This is involved in games that paying cash gives blatent power usually not obtainable from players not paying. This usually entails a cash shop item that gives a boost that can't be obtained in game otherwise. This catagory has been blurred as games have begun allowing players the ability to 'sell' these items in game which can be considered making them 'obtainable' but it doesn't change the fact in the end someone is paying real money to obtain it. In some regards, SWTOR does this to a mild degree allowing cash shop goods to be sold in game, which I believe includes things such as permission to equip better gear, which would in many cases be a grab at power. 

 

Pay for Conveinence: Often times a good cash raker without being looked at to negatively. This can entail extra storage slots or possibly experience tokens to boost how quick you level. These types of services are often blurring the line as you can make claim they are giving an advantage which, lets not pretend, they do give one. Its mostly about whether or not people percieve it that way or not that really determines this. A good example would be planetside 2 with the ability to pay to get boosts to your gains for playing which can make it a lot easier to unlock good addons or other things in game that would take other players longer.

 

Pay for Cosmetic: This is probably the safest area and the one least considered as an 'advantage'. This seems to be a trend particularly in eastern games which have taken away a lot of the other factors and made cosmetics their main source of income, using very few convience items on the side. People like making their character look unique to their style and its pretty easy to milk money out of them for just this purpose. A good example of this would be Secret World which has quite a lot in terms of cosmetic goods.

 

Like I said, these lines can be blurred or mixed. GuildWars 2 for example has the ability to trade gems for gold, something that blurrs between paying for Power and convienence. Path of exile focuses on Cosmetics but also has stuff like stash tabs and premium stash tabs which can mix the conveinence and cosmetic options as it helps organize but also just makes it look nicer. Its really up to the player to make their mind up what they take the game to be like.

  Dexter2010

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/12
Posts: 151

2/09/13 3:17:32 PM#25
Technically, can't any mmo be P2W since you can probably pay a 3rd party to grind for you? (Not recommended).
  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

2/09/13 4:57:35 PM#26
Originally posted by SirFubar
If you can get what someone bought from the cash shop ingame, its not pay to win at all. P2W is when you can buy stuff (that CANT be acquire ingame) from the cash shop that will make you more powerful than the ones who can't. That is P2W. Everything else isn't P2W.

What if it took 6months of 2hrs a night grinding to get the item you spent $10 on, is that pay to win? The item is available in game so you would define it as not P2W according to you definition above.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5540

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

2/09/13 8:06:55 PM#27
Originally posted by DamonVile

Well to side step the stupid argument that's about to happen...

 

Pay to win originaly didn't litterally mean you pay money and win. It meant you are able to buy advantages in game with real money.

Better gear, do more damage, have more health ect ect.

People have confused the meaning now so that some will argue if you have any chance to lose it's not pay to win...because you didn't win.

There are many things that people will include in p2w like xp boosts that don't actually help you win in a pvp match but most of the time those complaining are just doing it because someone has something they don't. It really doesn't have anything to do with an actual advantage.

My personal opinion on p2w is if a game goes down that road I stop playing. But it does have to actually have items that quallify as pay 2 win, not just a complainer on the forums.


/thread

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 401

2/09/13 8:09:19 PM#28
Originally posted by DamonVile

Pay to win originaly didn't litterally mean you pay money and win. It meant you are able to buy advantages in game with real money.

Better gear, do more damage, have more health ect ect.

People have confused the meaning now so that some will argue if you have any chance to lose it's not pay to win...because you didn't win.

There are many things that people will include in p2w like xp boosts that don't actually help you win in a pvp match but most of the time those complaining are just doing it because someone has something they don't. It really doesn't have anything to do with an actual advantage.

My personal opinion on p2w is if a game goes down that road I stop playing. But it does have to actually have items that quallify as pay 2 win, not just a complainer on the forums.

This guy summed it up already.

To add a note to that: P2W is an already dying model - devs realised they can gain better retention thus more $$$ by better freemium / cosmetic style models. Thank god really, I actually lik F2P models like GW2, Tera, The Secret World, Defiance etc.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

2/09/13 8:44:07 PM#29

P2W is when items are EXCLUSIVELY offered through a cash shop and have special attributes only attainable through cash purchases. Thus, pay to win is paying for things that give players an unfair advantage over others in gameplay. Nothing to do with EXP boosting or progression skipping. These games usually lock player-to-player trade and have no way for free-to-play players to achieve the same results in the end.

F2P is when items are able to be obtained using either in game currency or cash shop purchases. The players can access some/all of the payed content without paying a cent out of pocket. F2P is about EXP boosting and progression skipping, but honestly doesn't effect the end result of your characters. All players can end up at the end of the game in the same status and have the same items regardless of cash shop purchases. Often times, these games allow players to trade currencies with other players or through a system.

An example: GunZ offers weapons in both cash shop or in game currency. The kicker is really in the "jewels" that give special attributes to your attacks that you can't get without paying money and gives players an unfair advantage in some aspects of the game regardless of their actual skill level. GunZ is P2W in this aspect. They may have some special health packs or cosmetic items, but those aren't often purchased as main items.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1916

2/09/13 10:27:42 PM#30

If you can buy power "which is not easy to obtain", it is pay 2 win.

For example Atlantica Online, You can be the best geared person on the server if you spend the most money.

Eventhough you can still have top of the line gear if you play for 15 hours a day for 3 years straight, but I still consider that pay 2 win.

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1916

2/09/13 10:30:01 PM#31
Originally posted by Rossboss

P2W is when items are EXCLUSIVELY offered through a cash shop and have special attributes only attainable through cash purchases.

In that case, most asian f2p games isn't p2w, since they allow all the hardcore people to get whatever they want by playing 15 hours a day, everyday.

Most have some currency exchange where you can trade in game money for the items in cashshop.  Which by your definition isn't p2w but I think it is.

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1859

2/10/13 12:35:20 AM#32
Originally posted by SuperNick

To add a note to that: P2W is an already dying model - devs realised they can gain better retention thus more $$$ by better freemium / cosmetic style models. Thank god really, I actually lik F2P models like GW2, Tera, The Secret World, Defiance etc.

 

I doubt this highly.   Last numbers that I saw a publisher mention was that only 2% of the players purchase cosmetic items.  That is far less than the usual 10% for cash shops with other character/account enhancing items.  

 

Just to make the point drive home.  If the average paying player spent $25 a month, then the average player would have to spend $125 in a cosmetic only cash shop.   I really don't see that happening.   That $70 monocle didn't go too well with EVE players.

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