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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Minecraft makes fools of MMO companies

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143 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17129

1/24/13 9:31:25 AM#21
Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

  Far less "easy mode" when I can come in and smash your house and wall and pour lava over everything you love and own.  Suddenly intricate redstone configurations because vital and player vigilance begins to matter.  Not that I want to attack you on your points, they are great and I've wanted to try wurm for awhile.  But I do want to reinforce the ideal that Minecraft hasn't made fools of anybody.  Its not an MMO for a reason.  It doesn't work as one.  Our genre is plagued by its own lifeblood, massive players online.  What you can and cannot do changes when that happens.  Things you do now drive a wedge between your players that a single player game, or limited multiplayer game, wouldn't drive there.

  I get the point the OP wants to make.  Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules and you'll have a longer lifespan.  Mostly true.  But its easy to forget that this market didn't become themepark central for no reason.  The design core of these games is in conflict with itself, and there not a cure-all for it.

Great post, I agree. Especially the highlighted part.

  Aeonblades

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 9:34:10 AM#22
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Minecraft makes enough of a fool out of itself, I wouldn't worry too much about MMO companies.

Yeah. That's why some 4 million people have bought it and Markus Persson is laughing his ass off looking at the fool of a game he created.

 

I didn't say it wasn't successful, just that it's a joke all in itself. I have devoted several hours to playing it, and I wasn't impressed personally. I know people that love it, real life friends even. But to me, the game is a joke, whether it made money or not. GW2 made money, but that doesn't make it a good game, same for a lot of other MMO's that have come out recently.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/24/13 9:40:15 AM#23
So what if 4 million people play it, whats the deal with humans clinging to this flock like mentality..the only answer you get is oh 9 million play it they can't be wrong. Yes 9 million people can be wrong, i know an organization were 1 billion people are wrong.
  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 619

1/24/13 9:51:24 AM#24

Minecraft is a game with rudimentary graphics which gives you every freedom as a hunter, gatherer, builder in it's world.

MMOs are games with bad to good graphics which restrict what you are allowed to hunt and gather and most of the time totally prohibit any building.

Unfortunately many MMO companies (and all AAAs) start with the graphics ("look what great gfx we have here") and totally neglect the other features. Just for shiny graphics. The depressing part is, it is our fault. First comment you see about each new game is "graphics suck/are great".

Would be interesting to see a MMO developer who starts with the features he wants to realize in his MMO and build his graphics on top of that. But no, it must be more shadows, more polygons, more textures and less freedom for the player. How boring is paradise if you can't do anything in it ?

  Aeonblades

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 9:56:37 AM#25
Originally posted by Anthur

Minecraft is a game with rudimentary graphics which gives you every freedom as a hunter, gatherer, builder in it's world.

MMOs are games with bad to good graphics which restrict what you are allowed to hunt and gather and most of the time totally prohibit any building.

Unfortunately many MMO companies (and all AAAs) start with the graphics ("look what great gfx we have here") and totally neglect the other features. Just for shiny graphics. The depressing part is, it is our fault. First comment you see about each new game is "graphics suck/are great".

Would be interesting to see a MMO developer who starts with the features he wants to realize in his MMO and build his graphics on top of that. But no, it must be more shadows, more polygons, more textures and less freedom for the player. How boring is paradise if you can't do anything in it ?

In my experience, not saying for fact, but what I think the reason for graphics being a hot topic among MMO's is because MMO's generally lag 5ish years behind other games and graphics, and when you see a new shiny game you think "Wow! This looks almost as good as (Insert crappy FPS here)". So it becomes a hot topic immediately.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2338

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

1/24/13 9:57:33 AM#26
Originally posted by Istavaan
So what if 4 million people play it, whats the deal with humans clinging to this flock like mentality..the only answer you get is oh 9 million play it they can't be wrong. Yes 9 million people can be wrong, i know an organization were 1 billion people are wrong.

The Bandwagon Fallacy is very popular 'round these parts.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5677

1/24/13 9:57:44 AM#27
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

  Far less "easy mode" when I can come in and smash your house and wall and pour lava over everything you love and own.  Suddenly intricate redstone configurations because vital and player vigilance begins to matter.  Not that I want to attack you on your points, they are great and I've wanted to try wurm for awhile.  But I do want to reinforce the ideal that Minecraft hasn't made fools of anybody.  Its not an MMO for a reason.  It doesn't work as one.  Our genre is plagued by its own lifeblood, massive players online.  What you can and cannot do changes when that happens.  Things you do now drive a wedge between your players that a single player game, or limited multiplayer game, wouldn't drive there.

  I get the point the OP wants to make.  Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules and you'll have a longer lifespan.  Mostly true.  But its easy to forget that this market didn't become themepark central for no reason.  The design core of these games is in conflict with itself, and there not a cure-all for it.

Great post, I agree. Especially the highlighted part.

Wow, yeah.  That is incredibly insightful.  We have short memories I guess.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1640

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

1/24/13 10:01:57 AM#28
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

MInecraft works when you can control who you let play with your world.

In an MMO everyone will be playing in your world, my world.  A completely different beast.

I would very much like an MMO where I could make anything.  I would really hate an MMO where others could destroy what I created. 

Plenty of mods out there that let you section off areas and protect them from destruction. There are some really good RPG/Faction War servers out there. I dabbled on one called Aethery's Ascended for awhile, adn donated 10 dollars for a 20 plot safe area to build my town on.

 

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1440

1/24/13 10:04:57 AM#29
Originally posted by Anthur
...snip

Unfortunately many MMO companies (and all AAAs) start with the graphics ("look what great gfx we have here") and totally neglect the other features. Just for shiny graphics. The depressing part is, it is our fault. First comment you see about each new game is "graphics suck/are great".

Would be interesting to see a MMO developer who starts with the features he wants to realize in his MMO and build his graphics on top of that. But no, it must be more shadows, more polygons, more textures and less freedom for the player. How boring is paradise if you can't do anything in it ?

Isn't that the frickin' truth. You always have to wade through what the graphics are like to get any real answers about gameplay.

Where does the obsession with graphics and animation come from. I can only imagine that it's people trying to literally live another life in the games instead of seeing them as games. I think the people that laugh at graphics while dismissing games  on them do it because they can't see themselves IN the game. If it doesn't look like real life, they can't see themselves with a new start in the game because real life failed them. That is the only reason they would need things to look so realistic is that they are literally trying to have that "second life". I've seen people make long-winded posts on game forums about animations and graphic imperfections and they seriously consider these things gamebreaking. They value it so highly it's unreal.

 

I don't understand this reasoning to dismiss a game just based on the graphics so the only thing I can surmise is that it's an inadequacy in themselves shining through to make them so steadfast that a game must be lavish in view, resemble real life, and be 3d or there is no way they would touch it when it's called MMO. I'm sure plenty of them can play cards and be entertained but there is something about that word that makes them long for realism. Playing cards haven't changed graphics for hundreds of years (if anything they became more plain) and card games are still the most played games out there. 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10578

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/24/13 10:09:12 AM#30


Originally posted by Xobdnas
So much time, money, and energy goes into filling the MMORPG game world with content, but the reality is (and Minecraft proves this) no matter how good the team, if you let the players build it the results will surpass your greatest expectations. I believe the old saying is do not teach a person to use a tool, give them the tool and be surprised by their innovation in using it. So MMORPG companies, when will you give us the empty world and the tools and turn us loose to make the greatest MMORPG of all time?


Minecraft doesn't make MMOs look like fools, because Minecraft is a completely different game.

It isn't known how many people are even playing Minecraft, because like MMO companies, Mojang doesn't release that information. They've sold over six million copies, but how many of those purchases are still active?

It isn't known how many people are playing on public Minecraft servers, versus private servers or single player games. You can't say Minecraft represents a successful public, multiplayer experience without knowing if a significant percentage of the players are playing the game that way.

The things in Minecraft that work start to break down when you scale up the number of people playing at the same time. A lot of the things that work in Minecraft break down as soon as you scale up the number of players to people that the players don't personally know.

I have played on servers that have a successful public, multiplayer experience, but they do this by introducing a lot of rules that do not exist natively in Minecraft, and some of the rules have to be enforced by GMs, which also does not exist natively in Minecraft. In other words, the game that most people are playing isn't the game that is successful in a public, multiplayer setting.

I do think that there is value in looking at Minecraft, and seeing what it would take to scale that type of game play up to a massively multiplayer setting, but it wouldn't just be giving a Minecraft server a lot of RAM.

Some ideas that would be great (imo).
* Plentiful, but finite resources.
* Worlds that can grow in a procedural manner.
* The ability to build something player owned.
* Lots of crafting for everything.
* Ability to have open world and open game play, along side scripted and directed game play.

Whether any of this would make a great game would really depend on how it's implemented. You can have a lot of perfect ideas, but create a really bad game.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  User Deleted
1/24/13 10:12:51 AM#31
Whats extremely funny or stupid or lack of insight your choice is that this site refuse to officially see minecraft as a legit MMO and give them its own forum as to they give other games that are not MMO's like LOL its own forum go figure.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10578

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/24/13 10:31:16 AM#32


Originally posted by Isturi
Whats extremely funny or stupid or lack of insight your choice is that this site refuse to officially see minecraft as a legit MMO and give them its own forum as to they give other games that are not MMO's like LOL its own forum go figure.


Being on this site would depend on how many people here are interested in the game and discussing the game. Most people who are going to discuss Minecraft, are going to do it at minecraftforums.net so there's not much need or desire for a Minecraft forum here.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4784

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/24/13 10:33:53 AM#33
@truthx. Yes that's why it works. You canm either play it alone or control who and how many people play in your world. That option doesn't exist in an mmo. I don't believe it would work in an mmo without such significant changes as to constitute a completely different game.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 889

1/24/13 10:37:07 AM#34

Yea it's only a game where you can build anything. Play or host on servers able to configure multiple rulesets and mods.

You can even get texture packs to make the graphics not suck so bad along with being able to download or design skins for your avatar.

Any MMORPG that wants to make a sandbox game should take a serious look at what Minecraft did. The fact that this site does not list it and it sold over 9 million copies alone should tell you how good it is.

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19536

1/24/13 10:38:43 AM#35

Minecraft does not have fun combat to me. It is a non-starter. And most player created content is crap. I have seen my sons playing it with his friends .. they can't pay me to play their "content".

Sure, there are those who create novelty like putting a WOW city into Minecraft, or create the Starship enterprise, but anyone who think it can replace WOW is smoking crack.

It is just a different kind of game. It is only for people who want to build stuff, not those who like progression/combat MMOs.

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 889

1/24/13 10:55:33 AM#36
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Minecraft does not have fun combat to me. It is a non-starter. And most player created content is crap. I have seen my sons playing it with his friends .. they can't pay me to play their "content".

Sure, there are those who create novelty like putting a WOW city into Minecraft, or create the Starship enterprise, but anyone who think it can replace WOW is smoking crack.

It is just a different kind of game. It is only for people who want to build stuff, not those who like progression/combat MMOs.

It's not about playing someone elses content. It's about making your own.

If your looking at Minecraft in that light with your lobby game bias I can see why you dismiss the game.

Building stuff is progression. You start with an idea, gather materials, foundation, scafolding if needed, main structure, additions, finishing touch... you were probably hinting at character progression but that could be included.

Sure the combat could be improved, along with the npcs and monsters but Minecraft is a solid place to start looking at designing a sandbox MMORPG.

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Aeonblades

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 10:58:18 AM#37
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Minecraft does not have fun combat to me. It is a non-starter. And most player created content is crap. I have seen my sons playing it with his friends .. they can't pay me to play their "content".

Sure, there are those who create novelty like putting a WOW city into Minecraft, or create the Starship enterprise, but anyone who think it can replace WOW is smoking crack.

It is just a different kind of game. It is only for people who want to build stuff, not those who like progression/combat MMOs.

Well said. It's definitely a builder game, not for someone who enjoys combat, replayability, progression, PvP, pretty much anything that makes an MMO an MMO. It has it's strong points, but the glaring weaknesses make it not even really an option unless you just want to make a pretty house and fall in lava.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/24/13 10:59:03 AM#38
Originally posted by EccentricPenguin
minecraft also looks like an un-fun version of some backshelf b-title from the 20's.

 It is unfun and gets dull fast.  Just buy a box of legos and sit home and make stuff its better.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/24/13 10:59:37 AM#39
Yes its true, this apple is so much better than that orange because I can make a pie with it as well as juice. I mean, who would eat an orange pie?

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2338

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

1/24/13 11:10:50 AM#40
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by EccentricPenguin
minecraft also looks like an un-fun version of some backshelf b-title from the 20's.

 It is unfun and gets dull fast.  Just buy a box of legos and sit home and make stuff its better.

Legos are overpowered.  Nerf Legos!

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

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