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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » A new theme park model

18 posts found
  Usinger

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/07
Posts: 26

 
OP  12/21/12 6:36:10 AM#1

The general concept of the "theme park" where characters follow a quest lines and thus work their way from level 1 to max is very appealing to most of the RPG committee and is unlikely to go away.

However the quest island concept should.

The quest island concept is where a newbie goes to "newbie island" (doesn't have to be an island, could be town or a planet) does everything that can be done there and then goes on to "lvl 10-18" island and begins again, never to return to "newbie island".

This design leads for static, boring worlds.

Instead a more nuenced approach where characters where characters are sent on quests all over the game world would be a big improvement.  The design would have to intelligent so high-level mobs don't eat everyone who comes their way...but that in itself would be a big improvement.

I thought "The Secret World" was going to use this approach...oh how disapointed I was to be sent to "newbie island" instead!

  DancingQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/12
Posts: 227

12/21/12 7:25:05 AM#2
It could be so that mobs doesn't aggro players that are ten levels lower or more.
  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1091

12/21/12 7:28:54 AM#3
There's difficult content in the "starting zone" in TSW's Kingsmouth -- the airport has QL10 zombies, and there's also the Lair, which I would not recommend to newbies.  Also new missions get introduced in all the zones that are for more advanced players.
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

12/21/12 7:40:15 AM#4

Yeah I always wonder why companies for the last decade have followed that design concept because it seems so blatantly obvious that if you are going to play out, design and make an persistant environment (which is what am MMO is ment to be) then you are wasting resources and time by producing resources that have a single use.

It seems the 'bright' idea in development has been to crate a level 1 rat, 5 rat, level 10 rat, level 15 rat, level 20 rat, etc... which is sort of reusing resources but not really inovative. What would be better would be to design the game with reusable resources through out the game by the way the game is designed.

For example, using rats...

A rat is a rat. It is a level 1 creature that you can find and kill everywhere. The re-usable mechinc would be to allow them to mutate/grow during certain specific encounters or events. You create 1 resource, a rat, and assign to it the code that deals with the re-useability mechanic. So, a rat left alone for 100 hours game time can mutate into a genetic anomoly causing widespread panic, a cool random server event and all using 1 resource. Rats can now be placed in every zone and as luck would have it, due to the mechic rats found is far off or obscure area's would have more chance of mutated and tougher rats.

A pretty lame example but you get the idea. Sorry I rambled, almost home time and getting jittery...

  apocoluster

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1305

\m/,

12/21/12 7:58:28 AM#5
Originally posted by Usinger

The general concept of the "theme park" where characters follow a quest lines and thus work their way from level 1 to max is very appealing to most of the RPG committee and is unlikely to go away.

However the quest island concept should.

The quest island concept is where a newbie goes to "newbie island" (doesn't have to be an island, could be town or a planet) does everything that can be done there and then goes on to "lvl 10-18" island and begins again, never to return to "newbie island".

This design leads for static, boring worlds.

Instead a more nuenced approach where characters where characters are sent on quests all over the game world would be a big improvement.  The design would have to intelligent so high-level mobs don't eat everyone who comes their way...but that in itself would be a big improvement.

I thought "The Secret World" was going to use this approach...oh how disapointed I was to be sent to "newbie island" instead!

Maybe a good idea.  Keep teh level based zones but have the players "powerup or power down" like GW2 does. Or atleast I think it does..ive seen the power down in GW2 dont think it powers up.  A character levels to open up skills powers spells etc etc but a level 1 character can hop to the max level zones be powered up and proceed to play with his freinds.  This way the whole world is open to you at all times.   Just a thought...as I would mind seeing not the end of theme parks..just the linear ones.

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/21/12 8:33:58 AM#6


Originally posted by DancingQueen
It could be so that mobs doesn't aggro players that are ten levels lower or more.


It wouldn't be that difficult to adjust things so that monsters are always around the player's power level.

I think it's done more as a way for the player to have an external representation of their progression. It's a velvet rope thing. You're a higher level now, so you get to pass beyond this velvet rope into the higher level area, "Congratulations!"

I think the virtual worlds would be more engaging if they employed a less gated approach, kind of like Skyrim or Fallout 3. You're still following quest chains, but you're not locked into any particular area. You could still have some really hard areas, and have some requirements on a player's power level, but keep most of the world open.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  MyTabbycat

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 307

12/21/12 9:38:05 AM#7
The problem with the secret world or any MMO that doesn't have levels is that it can be very hard for a new player to figure out how to tell the difficulty of mobs. Especially if right off the bat there are very high level mobs in the starting zone. So if you are going to do this, you either need to make it so that high level mobs don't chomp the newbie to bits as soon as he stumbles upon them, or make it glaringly obvious that said newbie is getting into suicide territory and should turn around. While it might be lots of fun for some players to always be looking over their shoulder wondering what monster is going to jump out and one shot them, the majority of your playerbase will be quickly frustrated by such game mechanics. Up to the point of possibly quitting. And frustrated or disappointed players that quit games tend to tell their friends not to play them.
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1970

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

12/21/12 9:40:38 AM#8
Originally posted by Usinger

The general concept of the "theme park" where characters follow a quest lines and thus work their way from level 1 to max is very appealing to most of the RPG committee and is unlikely to go away.

However the quest island concept should.

The quest island concept is where a newbie goes to "newbie island" (doesn't have to be an island, could be town or a planet) does everything that can be done there and then goes on to "lvl 10-18" island and begins again, never to return to "newbie island".

This design leads for static, boring worlds.

Instead a more nuenced approach where characters where characters are sent on quests all over the game world would be a big improvement.  The design would have to intelligent so high-level mobs don't eat everyone who comes their way...but that in itself would be a big improvement.

I thought "The Secret World" was going to use this approach...oh how disapointed I was to be sent to "newbie island" instead!

"uuuh look over there! that's the megatron, the most meanest enemy in this world!!!!!"

"and why doesnt he attack or anything"

"we are too low!"

 

 

seriously, that's what you want?

if a mob is soooo dangerous. why should he stop because of 10 lvls? this would open the way for exploits, not the best idea.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

12/21/12 9:44:17 AM#9
Originally posted by DancingQueen
It could be so that mobs doesn't aggro players that are ten levels lower or more.

Since when are GIF Avatars allowed on MMORPG.com.. they are really annoying. Get rid off it.. NOW.

  apocoluster

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1305

\m/,

12/21/12 9:44:52 AM#10
Originally posted by MyTabbycat
The problem with the secret world or any MMO that doesn't have levels is that it can be very hard for a new player to figure out how to tell the difficulty of mobs. Especially if right off the bat there are very high level mobs in the starting zone. So if you are going to do this, you either need to make it so that high level mobs don't chomp the newbie to bits as soon as he stumbles upon them, or make it glaringly obvious that said newbie is getting into suicide territory and should turn around. While it might be lots of fun for some players to always be looking over their shoulder wondering what monster is going to jump out and one shot them, the majority of your playerbase will be quickly frustrated by such game mechanics. Up to the point of possibly quitting. And frustrated or disappointed players that quit games tend to tell their friends not to play them.

IM pretty sure a production house would have to come to term immediately even before writing up the code..that a non-traditional themepark is gonna be a niche game.

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1842

"I shall take your position into consideration"

12/21/12 9:47:47 AM#11
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by DancingQueen
It could be so that mobs doesn't aggro players that are ten levels lower or more.

Since when are GIF Avatars allowed on MMORPG.com.. they are really annoying. Get rid off it.. NOW.

right? RIGHT?!!

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/21/12 9:51:13 AM#12

I strongly approve of non-linear gameplay and non-gated content.  The trick is getting the game mechanics to work in an MMORPG environment without turning the entire game into single-player gameplay.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

12/21/12 10:12:03 AM#13

Skip levels and only have skills then you have a whole world to play in.

Sure there will be mobs that are powerful so either get back later when you have better skills or better gear or team up with other players to take that beast down.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  apocoluster

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1305

\m/,

12/21/12 10:49:31 AM#14
Originally posted by Torgrim

Skip levels and only have skills then you have a whole world to play in.

Sure there will be mobs that are powerful so either get back later when you have better skills or better gear or team up with other players to take that beast down.

Nah, levels are fine...

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/21/12 10:58:54 AM#15


Originally posted by apocoluster

Originally posted by Torgrim Skip levels and only have skills then you have a whole world to play in. Sure there will be mobs that are powerful so either get back later when you have better skills or better gear or team up with other players to take that beast down.
Nah, levels are fine...



If you're going for an open world style game like Skyrim or Fallout 3, then whether you pick player levels, player skills or both doesn't matter. The main difference would be how the world feels and how the player experiences the world.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/21/12 11:20:53 AM#16
Themeparks in general lead to static boring worlds. You rarely see high leveled players in earlier areas in these games. Most cluster around the newly released content areas. Why often times games seem barren.
  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

12/21/12 11:37:59 AM#17
Originally posted by Torgrim

Skip levels and only have skills then you have a whole world to play in.

Sure there will be mobs that are powerful so either get back later when you have better skills or better gear or team up with other players to take that beast down.

Maybe even have evolving skills. Like if u have a sword, you start with a sing slash, then it changes to a double slash, then tripple slash... etc.

That way, a rabbid dog is still dangerous if youre not paying attention, but you have the skill to actually kill it much easier.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1091

12/21/12 3:30:26 PM#18
Originally posted by Usinger

The general concept of the "theme park" where characters follow a quest lines and thus work their way from level 1 to max is very appealing to most of the RPG committee and is unlikely to go away.

However the quest island concept should.

The quest island concept is where a newbie goes to "newbie island" (doesn't have to be an island, could be town or a planet) does everything that can be done there and then goes on to "lvl 10-18" island and begins again, never to return to "newbie island".

This design leads for static, boring worlds.

Instead a more nuenced approach where characters where characters are sent on quests all over the game world would be a big improvement.  The design would have to intelligent so high-level mobs don't eat everyone who comes their way...but that in itself would be a big improvement.

I thought "The Secret World" was going to use this approach...oh how disapointed I was to be sent to "newbie island" instead!

I'm actually in favor of freeing zones from "level-lock" as well, and it's probably one of the biggest reasons I prefer skill-based systems over level-based.  I sort of understand that developers want to give each zone a beginner, intermediate and advanced feel, but my sense is that those 3 flavors could be stacked within a zone, and give the entire game much more longevity.  You could start some zones at higer difficulty if you wanted to make it very apparent that it's a dangerous area, but why couldn't there be more difficult missions in a "beginner" area once a character has progressed?  Sort of like thinking of a zone in 3 dimensions instead of one.

 

TSW does this to some extent by introducing advanced content (Lairs, high level farming, advanced missions) into "beginner" zones, but it's not done as thoroghly as it could be.