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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Is the new "action oriented" combat the future of the MMORPG genre?

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82 posts found
  dreamscaper

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/08
Posts: 1274

12/18/12 12:27:44 AM#21

Short Answer: Probably, due most in part to the teenage twitch crowd, which is one of the largest demographics in the genre.

 

For me, I'd personally rather see more unique systems, like can be found in Wakfu and Wizard101. Or better yet, a move away from combat as the primary focus, but that's never going to happen.

<3

  HeroEvermore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/09
Posts: 692

Banned 18 times and counting.

12/18/12 12:30:08 AM#22

It is and we all know it. No need to make a bazillionth post on it silly.

All mmorpgs should have left click mouse attack. Any game that does not is behind the times.

Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2740

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/18/12 12:38:36 AM#23
Originally posted by Silok
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by killion81

Many of the new MMORPGs are releasing with more action oriented combat.  Some will say this new brand of combat is more skill based.  In my opinion, it feels like a new sub-genre, Multiplayer Online Action Roleplaying Games or MOARPGs.  I think there is plenty of room for a well designed MMORPG with traditional MMORPG combat.

How does everyone else feel about this?  Is this the future of the MMORPG genre?  Do you enjoy traditional MMORPG combat?  Is one type of combat better than the other in your opinion (and why)?

Seems like alot of companies are mixing it up.  Archeage is releasing with the boring WoW combat your used to, try that.

 

 

Sorry but innovations in gameplay happen and this was inevitable.

you call fast action combat innovation? lol where are you been these past 20 years?

Fast action combat or fps is a genre, slow strategics combat is another genre, turn-based etc etc they are all style of gameplay but innovative?? no innovation there.

edit: i will sure try archeage, i dont mind this kind of combat if the game is enjoyable for more then 2 weeks.

Sorry jsut because fast action combat is a staple of other mediums and genres doesnt preclude the use of the word when describing soemthing for the MMO's which is new:

 

1

: the introduction of something new

 

2

 

: a new idea, method, or device : novelty

in·no·va·tion·al \-shn?l, -sh?-n?l\adjective

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

12/18/12 12:41:06 AM#24
Originally posted by Trudge34

 

Me personally, although I liked the combat, after a while I didn't really care for it. In an MMO I prefer something more along the lines of EQ that allow you to relax, socialize, have fun and not be required to mash a ton of buttons to be on the top of your game. Like someone said above, give me something to fight for and good progression, strategy in fights and I'm fine. Combat isn't the main focus for me on MMOs. 

Exactly.  It takes away from the social aspect of MMORPGs, which is barely hanging on by a thread as it is. And it becomesjust as repetetive after you learn an enemy's moves.  BAMs were throroughly unimpressive to me, they were tedious.

  ViperHoundz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/10
Posts: 46

I > You

12/18/12 12:43:20 AM#25
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Trudge34

 

Me personally, although I liked the combat, after a while I didn't really care for it. In an MMO I prefer something more along the lines of EQ that allow you to relax, socialize, have fun and not be required to mash a ton of buttons to be on the top of your game. Like someone said above, give me something to fight for and good progression, strategy in fights and I'm fine. Combat isn't the main focus for me on MMOs. 

Exactly.  It takes away from the social aspect of MMORPGs, which is barely hanging on by a thread as it is. And it becomesjust as repetetive after you learn an enemy's moves.  BAMs were throroughly unimpressive to me, they were tedious.

I'm telling you guys at this moment Vanguard is what you are looking for. Until Archeage or something else comes out in this format. I would not steer you wrong ( well intentionally).

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/18/12 12:57:31 AM#26
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Trudge34

 

Me personally, although I liked the combat, after a while I didn't really care for it. In an MMO I prefer something more along the lines of EQ that allow you to relax, socialize, have fun and not be required to mash a ton of buttons to be on the top of your game. Like someone said above, give me something to fight for and good progression, strategy in fights and I'm fine. Combat isn't the main focus for me on MMOs. 

Exactly.  It takes away from the social aspect of MMORPGs, which is barely hanging on by a thread as it is. And it becomesjust as repetetive after you learn an enemy's moves.  BAMs were throroughly unimpressive to me, they were tedious.

lol.. combat taking away from socializing? lol... combat is for fighting.. fights are suppose to be intense.. otherwise wouldn't they call it something like playing.. or having a cup of tea... you socialize outside of combat.. or in between battles... they are other things in games to do... crafing.. exploring... combat has nothing to do with socialization.. i could understand if you were referring to grouping vs soloing.. but high speed combat makes ppl solo in mmo's? ridiculous.

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

 
OP  12/18/12 6:08:14 AM#27
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Trudge34

 

Me personally, although I liked the combat, after a while I didn't really care for it. In an MMO I prefer something more along the lines of EQ that allow you to relax, socialize, have fun and not be required to mash a ton of buttons to be on the top of your game. Like someone said above, give me something to fight for and good progression, strategy in fights and I'm fine. Combat isn't the main focus for me on MMOs. 

Exactly.  It takes away from the social aspect of MMORPGs, which is barely hanging on by a thread as it is. And it becomesjust as repetetive after you learn an enemy's moves.  BAMs were throroughly unimpressive to me, they were tedious.

lol.. combat taking away from socializing? lol... combat is for fighting.. fights are suppose to be intense.. otherwise wouldn't they call it something like playing.. or having a cup of tea... you socialize outside of combat.. or in between battles... they are other things in games to do... crafing.. exploring... combat has nothing to do with socialization.. i could understand if you were referring to grouping vs soloing.. but high speed combat makes ppl solo in mmo's? ridiculous.

 

If you played old school MMORPGs, you would realize that strangiato2112 is actually dead on with this comment.  I hadn't really put much thought into it, but it was very difficult to talk to anyone in GW2 unless I was sitting in town specifically for the purpose of socializing (glorified chat room) or I was on TS or Vent with people that I already knew.  MMORPGs prior to all of the "action combat" facilitated social interaction significantly more than the current action oriented games.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3202

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

12/18/12 6:09:21 AM#28


Originally posted by azzamasin
Sorry jsut because fast action combat is a staple of other mediums and genres doesnt preclude the use of the word when describing soemthing for the MMO's which is new:

1: the introduction of something new
2: a new idea, method, or device : novelty
— in·no·va·tion·al \-shn?l, -sh?-n?l\adjective  



I am sure Dungeon & Dragons Online was not the first action combat MMO released, back in 2006. Maybe it was. There are LOTS of action combat games out now, today. Off the top of my head: Vindictus; Dragon's Nest; DCUO; and AoC.

When does something stop being innovative?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Inf666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 508

12/18/12 6:49:19 AM#29

I hope action oriented MMOs will become a major type. I am pretty sure it will not become THE prevailing type of the future though.

I love the combat of games like TERA, Oblivion, Skyrim or Dark Souls. Its is fun and you have an immersion that cannot be topped by the tab-targeting third person combat games. What I do not want though is a fast skill spam with no regards to tactics / strategy.

Combat system and difficulty of Dark Souls + quests from GW2 + crafting from SWG + Eve-Style game world ? Yes please.

---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17219

12/18/12 6:56:41 AM#30
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

It seems the more keys there are to press, the better the combat is hailed.

Action combat tends to give you fewer keys to press than WoW-style "how do you want to arrange your five hotbars" combat.  It's what you do with those fewer keys that matters.

That's kind of why I like it.

I REALLY liked Tera's combat. For the first time in any mmo I felt like I was thinking and reacting and moving in a fast and fluid state.

As opposed to: "I'm being rushed tab tab tab "pass over actual target" tab oops, back tab, hit "1" then hit "3" then I want ctrl 1 "oops finger didn't quite make it and I hit the 'windows' button and now my game has minimized".

The action combat, admittedly with my naga mouse, has made it so that my hands can have minimal movement and I can do everything without flying all over the keyboard.

It's like I can throw a ball without having to jump, do a twist in mid air, stick my tongue out and THEN get to throw.

  Rusque

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1721

12/18/12 7:04:33 AM#31

Action combat can be very fun if done properly, but GW2 is an example of how not to do it.

I'll take WoW combat over GW2, it is exhausting to run around every single mob constantly. If you're going to include action combat, the game has to be built for it (kinda like Vindictus). Grindy + tedious action combat = fail.

Now, if an MMO comes out with the combat depth of say DMC or Ninja Gaiden, I'll be in heaven, but circle strafing is booooooooring.

Look at Skyrim, terrible combat, just boring as can be. But you don't play Skyrim for the combat, you play it for the magnificent world and depth of exploration.

I guess what it boils down to is that the combat and type of game you're making need to match.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

12/18/12 7:05:28 AM#32
Originally posted by strangiato2112

I hope not.  I hate it.  

 

Bring back strategic combat.  Sick of GCD clickfests and the new 'action' trend on top of that.

What is this "strategic combat" you speak of?

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

 
OP  12/18/12 7:20:50 AM#33
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by azzamasin
Sorry jsut because fast action combat is a staple of other mediums and genres doesnt preclude the use of the word when describing soemthing for the MMO's which is new:

 

1: the introduction of something new
2: a new idea, method, or device : novelty
— in·no·va·tion·al \-shn?l, -sh?-n?l\adjective  



I am sure Dungeon & Dragons Online was not the first action combat MMO released, back in 2006. Maybe it was. There are LOTS of action combat games out now, today. Off the top of my head: Vindictus; Dragon's Nest; DCUO; and AoC.

 

When does something stop being innovative?

 

I'm going to guess it stops being innovative after GW2 does it?  After all, GW2 looks like it's going to win the "Most Innovative  Game of 2012" on MMORPG.com.  It couldn't do that if it's innovation didn't count because it had been done before.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5258

12/18/12 7:25:13 AM#34
Originally posted by Rusque

Action combat can be very fun if done properly, but GW2 is an example of how not to do it.

I'll take WoW combat over GW2, it is exhausting to run around every single mob constantly. If you're going to include action combat, the game has to be built for it (kinda like Vindictus). Grindy + tedious action combat = fail.

Now, if an MMO comes out with the combat depth of say DMC or Ninja Gaiden, I'll be in heaven, but circle strafing is booooooooring.

Look at Skyrim, terrible combat, just boring as can be. But you don't play Skyrim for the combat, you play it for the magnificent world and depth of exploration.

I guess what it boils down to is that the combat and type of game you're making need to match.

Skyrim, i thought personally the archery and the magic combat in that was pretty awesome, but i know where your going with the melee combat, it wasnt really as much fun as the other options, despite the cutscene killshots.. but action based combat itself is something of a mixed bag, its been attempted in different forms in various games, with some success, and with a lot of failure tbh, DCUO springs to mind in terms of abject failure, though im not sure you can really add GW2 to the fail pile, though i would agree that running around dodging all the time is not a play style i'd subscribe to any time soon. Action combat style gameplay though, i just don't see it being really all that popular, it may be fast and a tad frenetic at times, but that kind of gameplay gets boring and repetitive very quickly, and its only of limited appeal anyway, theres a reason why so many people still play WoW after all, its a style of combat that people feel comfortable with, and its been mirrored across several games, not just MMO's, so while i don't see action style combat dominating future games, i don't really see it disappearing either, hate to say it but that style of gameplay really does suit console games, but seriously, i think its probably going to be more single player game orientated, than MMO's

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1447

12/18/12 8:33:40 AM#35

It all needs more aiming and less auto-targeting. That involves more skill than select character, cast, cast, cast. It makes moving a chance at a miss. Dodgeroll was fun but after I compare its core of avoiding damage, I realize that I can avoid more damage more often with moving out of someone elses targetting reticule.

Did you ever play COS? There, combat was nice, it had the targeting reticule and you buffed and debuffed bars of strengthometers (yes, made up). Plus with a rolling wheel, you didn't have everything on your bar at once so you had to plan. Along with that there was PEP to reward you for staying alive longer, sort of like a kill streak bonus. I don't see any games on the horizon now with as many components so if anything things might be stagnant if people can't pick up easily on the system. I saw a lot of people in that game complain that combat was too hard so they were used to stand still, hit skill, repeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpwBjvBA-o

 

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2344

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

12/18/12 9:07:46 AM#36
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by strangiato2112

I hope not.  I hate it.  

 

Bring back strategic combat.  Sick of GCD clickfests and the new 'action' trend on top of that.

What is this "strategic combat" you speak of?

It is a relic from a former era.  We can go visit it in a museum.

In all seriousness... I wouldn't mind seeing a few new games trying Final Fantasy Tactics style combat.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1820

"I shall take your position into consideration"

12/18/12 9:22:55 AM#37

Future...future...

Makes me wonder for how long will we still be using keyboard and mouse for playing computer games.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/18/12 10:13:07 AM#38
Planetside 2 has the best combat of any mmo.

Hope future mmos drop the tab Target and use real aiming too.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/18/12 10:30:14 AM#39

It's certain by now that no one has a clear crystal ball regarding "the future of the industry".

Why keep attending psychic readings?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Trudge34

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 389

12/18/12 11:05:11 AM#40
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Trudge34

 

Me personally, although I liked the combat, after a while I didn't really care for it. In an MMO I prefer something more along the lines of EQ that allow you to relax, socialize, have fun and not be required to mash a ton of buttons to be on the top of your game. Like someone said above, give me something to fight for and good progression, strategy in fights and I'm fine. Combat isn't the main focus for me on MMOs. 

Exactly.  It takes away from the social aspect of MMORPGs, which is barely hanging on by a thread as it is. And it becomesjust as repetetive after you learn an enemy's moves.  BAMs were throroughly unimpressive to me, they were tedious.

lol.. combat taking away from socializing? lol... combat is for fighting.. fights are suppose to be intense.. otherwise wouldn't they call it something like playing.. or having a cup of tea... you socialize outside of combat.. or in between battles... they are other things in games to do... crafing.. exploring... combat has nothing to do with socialization.. i could understand if you were referring to grouping vs soloing.. but high speed combat makes ppl solo in mmo's? ridiculous.

 

If you played old school MMORPGs, you would realize that strangiato2112 is actually dead on with this comment.  I hadn't really put much thought into it, but it was very difficult to talk to anyone in GW2 unless I was sitting in town specifically for the purpose of socializing (glorified chat room) or I was on TS or Vent with people that I already knew.  MMORPGs prior to all of the "action combat" facilitated social interaction significantly more than the current action oriented games.

Exactly. Playing Tera it was impossible to talk, ask a question, give directions or shout out that we had an add or need to reposition a mob without opening myself up to taking a huge amount of damage. Being a tank, I couldn't type without taking down my block. So most of the runs were just zergs flying by the seat of my pants not really knowing what was going on. Much prefer to talk on the fly instead of taking 5 minutes of downtime to explain each different fight.

Raiding in EQ, I was always talking with a few of our other officers along with some key guildies that knew strats of the boss we were clearing towards. I'd be in tells or officer chat constantly with 3 or 4 people during the whole raid, plus doing my job as the main or secondary tank. Would prefer that much more than having to focus 100% on just the combat. 

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger

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