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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Why is there not an MMO that you can solo 100% of everything?

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272 posts found
  therealeasy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 44

12/15/12 11:16:17 PM#41

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  therealeasy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 44

12/15/12 11:19:42 PM#42

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  marlborz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/26/12
Posts: 40

12/15/12 11:22:00 PM#43
the point of any game is to achieve the objective. Is it fun for you to sit and listen to tom dick and harry taking about thier next next hairdo on viop over and over again? I very seldom played any mmo to be apart of a community. Games started out with retards playing and it evolved into something challenging . The purpose of content for me is to identify the content, explore the content, question the content, and challenege the content. Very seldom will you walk away feeling full when all you had to do was heal the tank or worry about anything and everything under the sun other then what the content was made for- and that is simply to cycle/play through it. Wow was too restrictive in who gets to do what when and where with how many people. That my friends made the game feel empty. Games today should try and find a happy medium; as every player that does actually cycle through the content will find out that with enough work effort you can overcome any challange.
  therealeasy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 44

12/15/12 11:25:42 PM#44

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  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12278

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/16/12 12:06:55 AM#45

"People should WANT to group with someone. Not be forced to group up with them."

or abandon the concept of group=interaction altogether.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/16/12 12:31:42 AM#46

TSW can almost be entirely solo'd. While the raids and dungeons are pretty good (the first and maybe second time), they aren't that special. So IMO, and probably the opinion of the many others who left TSW, it may be close to what you want.

 

I've actually been playing it again now that's its free. Feels more worthwhile now lol. Plus, they've added some neat things. Almost got my chainsaw unlocked!

  Orenshii

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/12
Posts: 64

12/16/12 12:42:18 AM#47
Originally posted by greenreen

I get what the OP is saying and I've experienced it.

For all the people that believe MMO means that you must be grouped or actively seeking a group, I disagree.

Massively - up for debate on a number

Multiplayer - means multiple people are in the game world - does not mean they have to be chained at the hip

Online - obviously, online, few games don't fit that that claim MMO

I see no problem with people being able to solo things.

Groups can be tedious. Waiting on people to get together. Connecting to a voice server. Deciding who will do what. Someone giving orders of when to start. Someone deciding which direction to go and when to continue or pause. Someone going AFK. Someone dying and not responding - are they AFK? Someone complaining about DPS or someone else "playing wrong". Someone needs to repair their gear. Someone put me on their friends list and told me - Oh Gawd, I don't know if I'm ready for this sort of commitment, do I have to friend them too? I barely know them, I don't consider them a friend, Oh frick, what if they ask me to do this crap again or start talking to me all the time in whispers... I'm not ready for thiiiiiiissssssssss... Someone didn't remember to bring a certain consumable. Someone has to go now...

Solo - you go where you want, when you want, doing what you want, at your own pace and on your own schedule. If you want to read a quest there is no one saying c'mon, over here and already beating on the mob.

Not a damn thing wrong with that as long as you pay the same entry fee. Not everyone is a social butterfly and should not be forced to be.

Lots of things loners can do may never require groups but it doesn't mean they aren't playing or contributing.

Answering questions in chat.

Making guides for forums.

Crafting.

Trading or playing the markets.

Soloing things they aren't supposed to be able to and proving when things are overpowered.

Playing PVP.

Roleplaying the naked idiot that runs around town screaming "The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire". You never have to convince anyone to act like a fool with you when the desire strikes you.

Again I'm reminded, extroverts feed from being around people, introverts feed on alone time. There are more extroverts but it does not mean that you get total say in how games should be played. Embrace the introverts, we are part of the ecosystem.

 

I once spent two hours watching videos and buffing people with 1 hour buffs that entered a town in Rift. Am I a horrible person for not being grouped for it. Was I playing wrong? Nope on both of those. I was being nice to strangers and asking nothing for it. Not even... a group.

 

Another time in GW2 I sat there recasting mesmer portal for a few hours while watching people try a jumping puzzle. They could take the portal if they wanted for instant completion or try the puzzle alone. Again, my choice, my playtime, entertained me and was NOT grouped.

 

Groups can also be huge spoilers. Every one of those times that you join a group that tries to exploit you through something or a boss, they are stealing experiences from you. First times that are now tainted by someone that already had their experience but want to use you to make their second time part of the grind they must finish. That's not very RPG of them at all. They don't care though. You are a means to their gear grinding end. That also makes me shy away from groups. Groups of people that are doing this for the second or more time don't want to experience it, they want to get it over with.

+1 to this

Everyone always battles over black and white, truth is always somewhere in the grey. This person understands

that. Its rather simple, like multiple people have said. Just because you arent grouping in a MMO doesnt mean

you arent a effective and valuable part of that gaming economy. Tell me where would you be without that

crafter who never groups and is seen always crafting? Without your gear or potions thats where!

 

I roleplay mainly crafters in my mmos, and 99% of the time im crafting not hunting. So i dont group, But I do

interact with them sell them items and help with the ambiance of a mmorpg. So anyone who says that

grouping is a part of what makes a mmo, a mmo. Then their rather elitist or trolls, and you shouldnt give

a good god damn what they think anyways.

 

O

Destiny has cheated me
By forcing me to decide upon
The woman that I idolise
Or the hands of an automaton

Without these hands I can't complete
The opera that was captivating her
But if I keep them, and she marries him
Then he probably won't want me dating her

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/16/12 12:49:29 AM#48
I absolutely LOVE being able to solo in an MMO. Sometimes I just like to kinda go about and do things at my own pace, sometimes it fulfills that RPG requirement for me. And I like doing that in an MMO for many different reasons too. For one, doing that in an MMO adds some randomness to the world. Many different things can happen such as being saved by another player, saving another while doing your thing.... and for me personally, PvP. Even though I am the one typically getting jumped in an open world, it's still loads of fun for me. Those are but a few reasons I love the option to solo.
  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2344

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

12/16/12 1:22:53 AM#49
There's a sticky post on the "group vs solo" debate.  Do we another one?

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/16/12 1:24:39 AM#50
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
This thread should be closed on a mmo forum. This is rediculous. No mmo should be soloable, it is just AGH! I need to breathe...seriously this idea is rediculous and it makes no sense. If you want to solo and be by yourself go play a multiplayer card game in a corner with your imaginary friends.... 

This is a good example how narrow minded, burned out and jaded we have become as a community.

This person has never ever considered that the "soloability" could take , say, 10 times as long as the grouping, actually ENCOURAGING the grouping instead of FORCING it as the new mmos do and why everyone behaves like Dfense inside a pug raid.

Because in this twisted twilight zone we operate these days, the prolonged time required would be UNFAIR to all the soloers for some reason not even the soloers understand.

Flame on!

:)

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

12/16/12 1:28:20 AM#51

I think this issue is more closely tied to the concept of "endgame" and a level cap. In any given MMORPG, there may be quests, there may be special dungeons, there may be activities you can do for improved faction standing or money or some alternate currency. But one thing remains the same across virtually every single MMORPG in existence: if you go out and hit ANY sufficiently difficult enemy until it dies, you will gain a discrete amount of progress. Might be in the form of your sword skill improving, might be in the form of an xp bar filling up. Whatever it is, you get measurably stronger in some way. The ANY is bolded because that's the key word. It doesn't matter what you fight as long as it's strong enough.

At some point, this stops happening. You're no longer allowed to go out and hit ANY monster with your sword. You may have a dozen different things you can do to progress your character—raid dungeons for better gear, perform missions for quest points, farm valuable materials to sell, camp a rare spawn—but from that point on you can never again progress in the way that you were able to for the entire game.

Players pay a lot of attention to where this point is, and how much you can do after reaching this point ("endgame"). I would really like to see some discussion about why endgame exists as a deliberately different mode of playing. Why are you allowed to achieve progression in one way for so long (potentially months or years of play) and then told you can't earn progression that way anymore? This is basically just what the OP was asking, but with the focus on XP vs. no XP rather than solo vs. forced group.

  Onomas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/16/12 1:48:07 AM#52
If you want to play by yourself, go grab a single player game and have at it. MMORPG's are about interaction and socialization, amongst other things of course. Dont get why people want a single player console game as a mmorpg, its silly. You already ahve thousands of solo type games out there, why try to ruin the industry even more
  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/16/12 2:01:07 AM#53
Originally posted by Onomas
If you want to play by yourself, go grab a single player game and have at it. MMORPG's are about interaction and socialization, amongst other things of course. Dont get why people want a single player console game as a mmorpg, its silly. You already ahve thousands of solo type games out there, why try to ruin the industry even more

I think people are taking things to extremes here. Having a solo option does nothing but add more to the world. I don't believe that the game should truly be solo, but you should be able to solo for fun. I grouped up in uo and socialized more in that game than most MMOs yet the game never requires me too to do anything in a group, nor did it recommend it or guide me too. If I wanted to take a long time and try taming a dragon solo I would and did. If I wanted to relax and train up my swordsmanship against something I could and at my own pace. I had so much fun doing that it made me want to experience other facets of the game. I also met friends playing solo. Some I still talk to over 10 years later.

I would say that doing it like most games now a days isn't my preference. I like tsw, but its solo then you hit a wall and its suddenly group only. Tsw does not give you the chance like other MMOs to really build a community.

 

So with that said, I can see the hate towards modern MMOs and their take on solo. They aren't doing it right.

  Onomas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/16/12 2:04:19 AM#54
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Onomas
If you want to play by yourself, go grab a single player game and have at it. MMORPG's are about interaction and socialization, amongst other things of course. Dont get why people want a single player console game as a mmorpg, its silly. You already ahve thousands of solo type games out there, why try to ruin the industry even more

I think people are taking things to extremes here. Having a solo option does nothing but add more to the world. I don't believe that the game should truly be solo, but you should be able to solo for fun. I grouped up in uo and socialized more in that game than most MMOs yet the game never requires me too to do anything in a group, nor did it recommend it or guide me too. If I wanted to take a long time and try taming a dragon solo I would and did. If I wanted to relax and train up my swordsmanship against something I could and at my own pace. I had so much fun doing that it made me want to experience other facets of the game. I also met friends playing solo. Some I still talk to over 10 years later.

I would say that doing it like most games now a days isn't my preference. I like tsw, but its solo then you hit a wall and its suddenly group only. Tsw does not give you the chance like other MMOs to really build a community.

 

So with that said, I can see the hate towards modern MMOs and their take on solo. They aren't doing it right.

I agree but do believe the OP said he wanted the entire game to be solo, thus a single player game. I like my solo time just as much as the next guy, but want the grouping and social interaction also.

  User Deleted
12/16/12 2:07:27 AM#55

Mildly offtopic, but I do kinda wonder something:

If it is more efficient to do things in a group, why is there a mechanic that divides up the amount of experience you get from doing things in a group? If you want to entice/encourage people to group up without detracting from ones ability to go solo, wouldn't the better solution be to simply give more experience when you work as a group, as opposed to essentially encouraging people to solo for efficiency since your experience isn't being divided up?

  Onomas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/16/12 2:13:06 AM#56
Originally posted by Enigmatus

Mildly offtopic, but I do kinda wonder something:

If it is more efficient to do things in a group, why is there a mechanic that divides up the amount of experience you get from doing things in a group? If you want to entice/encourage people to group up without detracting from ones ability to go solo, wouldn't the better solution be to simply give more experience when you work as a group, as opposed to essentially encouraging people to solo for efficiency since your experience isn't being divided up?

It depends on what game. Some games do a mentor program, some allow higher levels to drop level to go with lower leveled players.Some games do offer benifits for grouping, and you are right some dont. Its kind of hard for a lvl 80 to get xp by helping a lvl 10 person kill creatures. And the system can be taken advantage of by giving the lower leveled player more xp for the higher leveled player doing all the work.Some mmorpg's give you more xp for grouping to entice this as well.

Realy just depends on the game company/game/etc.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/16/12 2:15:04 AM#57
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Onomas
If you want to play by yourself, go grab a single player game and have at it. MMORPG's are about interaction and socialization, amongst other things of course. Dont get why people want a single player console game as a mmorpg, its silly. You already ahve thousands of solo type games out there, why try to ruin the industry even more

I think people are taking things to extremes here. Having a solo option does nothing but add more to the world. I don't believe that the game should truly be solo, but you should be able to solo for fun. I grouped up in uo and socialized more in that game than most MMOs yet the game never requires me too to do anything in a group, nor did it recommend it or guide me too. If I wanted to take a long time and try taming a dragon solo I would and did. If I wanted to relax and train up my swordsmanship against something I could and at my own pace. I had so much fun doing that it made me want to experience other facets of the game. I also met friends playing solo. Some I still talk to over 10 years later.

I would say that doing it like most games now a days isn't my preference. I like tsw, but its solo then you hit a wall and its suddenly group only. Tsw does not give you the chance like other MMOs to really build a community.

 

So with that said, I can see the hate towards modern MMOs and their take on solo. They aren't doing it right.

I agree but do believe the OP said he wanted the entire game to be solo, thus a single player game. I like my solo time just as much as the next guy, but want the grouping and social interaction also.

I think we are mostly on the same level. And I agree with it. My take on the op (and I skimmed it in all honesty), is that he would prefer a game that is soloable but has the options for interaction. Kinda sucks when you are forced to group to enjoy a game, which it appears you agree with too. I guess I just don't think either extreme is good for me. That's why I brought up UO. you could literally max out everything solo in that game if you wanted, but more likely than not you wouldnt because the game subtly encouraged it (groups) by building a community.

Also I guess it wouldn't make sense in certain types of MMOs. In an open world PvP game, pve might be solo able to help you catch up to get to the nitty gritty action, but in games like wow or lotro it doesn't make as much sense as you are playing a story rather than creating one.

  Khorian

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/07
Posts: 65

...

12/16/12 4:35:49 AM#58
Originally posted by Enigmatus

Mildly offtopic, but I do kinda wonder something:

If it is more efficient to do things in a group, why is there a mechanic that divides up the amount of experience you get from doing things in a group? If you want to entice/encourage people to group up without detracting from ones ability to go solo, wouldn't the better solution be to simply give more experience when you work as a group, as opposed to essentially encouraging people to solo for efficiency since your experience isn't being divided up?

To the OP: Because grouping can be exciting, or frustrating. It can be rewarding. I think you should really ask yourself why do you even need to socialize if you can do everything alone? So you can show off your awesome gear that you managed to farm on your own, all by yourself? No one would be impressed anyway, since the content is so easy that anyone can do it, solo. Ask yourself this: In such a game, WHAT REASON is there to socialize? Your conclusion must be: NONE. You want to socialize in SUCH a game? What for? If I want to randomly socialize I go to facebook. The game in itself offers noreason to socialize, everyone will be busy running their one man instances.

To you, an MMORPG might be a Social hub zone connected to single player instances. Sorry, that is not enough. To me, that is bad game design, the mark missed in terms of MMORPG.

Everquest (wich is not perfect, by no means. It's slow and cumbersome by todays standards, but it got the principles right) did it like this: You solo, you get all the exp, but its slow as hell. With a full group, killspeed was so high you saw the exp fly in. It was devided by the people, but killspeed made up for it, plus it was more exciting and satisfying than a boring solo grind. Also the location played an important role, outside in the open, AEing or kiting is no problem, but in a tight dungeon its impossible. Also, many named summoned you to their position, so no kiting for you.

Some solo techniques were: Kiting, AoE Kiting, swarm kiting, charm kiting. And some of those were pretty complicated, especially charm kiting took some training and good timing. Nothing you would see in a singleplayer game today. Too difficult, too dangerous for todays kind of consumer.

Even standard mobs in the game of your current level and expansion had alot of HP, and alot of classes would struggle to kill them solo. They could, there were many techniques to do it, but often it took a long time to kill a single mob and was just not effective.

Then you add a healer, and for a tank that is allready better. Other classes like casters can't really tank so a healer doesn't add much to them except for his low DPS. Still not effective, since the tank is takinga heavy pounding and the healer wastes alot of mana healing him. The mob eventually dies but the healers mana is low and he has to regen it, wich is downtime so not really effective either.

Now add an enchanter or shaman or bard, those are utility classes. They can slow the enemys runspeed and/or attack speed, increase the groups runspeed and/or attack speed and thus shifts the balance of the fight heavily. This is allready a good group setup, but still lacks the damage output. Not really effective kill speed wise.

So add some DPS, person number 4, a backup healer or a crowd controller and another DPS and you have a good group.

A good Puller is also nice to have, they can split groups of mobs and bring the ideal amount to the camp, mostly two at once, one killed, one mezzed and held ready to be killed once the other goes down, and at half life the puller allready runs out to bring the next pack.

Everyone has to play his role well, but if you broke into a camp, deep inside a dungeon (means you have killed the standing spawns in a timely manner so the respawns can be handled one by one, with the occasional named spawn)

In Everquest, you needed a group to go deep into that strange dungeon. But you also WANTED to go deep in there for certain nameds and their rare drops. It made you invest time and willpower. Today that is not required anymore.

Also, classes were more diverse than today. Highly specialized classes compared to todays generalists. As they were highly specialized in some areas, they were serisously handicapped in others and thus relied on each other.

This made you look in awe if you found someone really good at his class, not just gear wise but by playskill and managing his skills, positions and abilities (you had 8 Spells up at max, so choose wisely. (Can be switched in battle but have to consult you spellbook wich makes you very vulnerable.) If you made your name known, maybe they invited you to your guild, wich opened up new possibilities to farm certain dungeons or zones and bosses. Back then, bosses were still very difficult to learn. Teamspeak was not invented yet, you had to manage 72 people in a raid via text commands. Learning Vishimtar (Dragons of Norrath final Boss) took my guild weeks and countless attempts. Alot of people would throw in a towel in disgust when they hear that you gained NOTHING from failed attempts except knowledge and real life expirience at how to play the encounter. You even LOST XP and could potentially LOSE YOUR LEVEL if you did not grind an EXP Buffer.

Oh and the corpse run would take about 20 minutes between each attempt. And the fight itself if it went well took about 20-40 minutes pre farm status.

Old style MMOs were also a test of willpower and stamina, wich made the rewards worth SO MUCH MORE than a single player reward that everyone can get with a crippled leg, broken hands, blind.

This may sound complicated to someone who grew up with todays MMOs, but you must not think from the defeatist standpoint. If you played your class well people WANTED you in their group, because they needed you. They added you as friend to invite you the next day. Because a good Player of a Class and a bad one made alot of difference. It meant wipe and 30 minute corpse recovery or named farm and rare loot.

Grouping must remain necessary in MMOs. I don't ask for Everquests old system, but something milder along that line. I don't want to be the "MOST WANTED BOUNTYHUNTER IN THE GALAXY", like 1 million other guys. I don't want single player storyline and content in an MMO.

/sigh

sometimes i miss my baby  ;(

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2393

12/16/12 4:49:09 AM#59
Oh god Khorian you made me so sad but you wrote that beautifully. Yes Everquest indeed was the very best of the best.

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  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

12/16/12 4:59:26 AM#60
Originally posted by Disdena

I think this issue is more closely tied to the concept of "endgame" and a level cap.

This would have been a far better way for the thread to have started.   Certain words are a little too radioactive.

The leveling games I've played (admittedly I've not played a lot of different ones to max level) do have a bait-and-switch feel.  You are offered one playstyle to max level, then there's an assumption that you're going to want to move to a completely different playstyle once you get there.  And so you end up with one group of players who are unhappy they had to grind through a game they didn't enjoy to start playing their game and you have another group that feels cut adrift when they get to the endgame, straining to find the fun.

If devs support each group of players retreating into their own comfort zone from beginning to end, the game practically forks into multiple independant games.  But I find myself starting to ask: is that really a bad thing?  Is there anything fundementally wrong with letting a community bifurcate into what are, for all practical purposes, seperate games that just happen to share a common pool of assets (lore, art, databases)?

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