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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » $15 a month? No way!

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125 posts found
  Strycker

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/05
Posts: 55

 
OP  11/20/12 10:20:39 PM#1

This will be a short, little post/rant.

 

Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

 

I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

When I pay my $15 a month I:

 

- Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

 

- KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

 

- My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

 

- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

 

- It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

 

That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

 

Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

11/20/12 10:45:30 PM#2

$15 is less than what I actually pay monthly for my broadband connection, which is at $20. It's just about the same price I play for my cellphone plan.

I'm a  videogamer, but I guess I'm not really a MMO gamer at heart; I like to play all kinds of videogames and not just be tied to one or two. MMOs tend to take most of your time, especially your game time. I don't feel like I want to subscribe to something I wouldn't be playing for the most of my gaming time, or I fear that if I subscribed, I will be inclined to focus on just this one game and pass on the other ones that come along. It would feel like a sting to see that $15 bill at the end of every month for something you don't get to use as often as your internet or your phone.

Of course all that will go out the window if I find the one game worth subscribing to, but my standards are high.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

11/21/12 2:01:01 AM#3
having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted

Buying a $15 sword in a cash shop wouldn't make you feel obligated to play?

It isn't any different, if you're buying things from a cash shop and don't play afterwards you wasted it too.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4916

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/21/12 2:11:37 AM#4
 
NOriginally posted by Strycker

This will be a short, little post/rant.

 

Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

 

I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

When I pay my $15 a month I:

 

- Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

 

- KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

 

- My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

 

- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

 

- It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

 

That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

 

Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

You don't have access to all the current and upcoming content with a b2p, you typically have to pay for expansions.

My immersion has never been interrupted by "having to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

No $15 dollars a month is not a lot, how expensive it is has very rarely been an argument.  However we are not comparing $15 a month in games to another form of entertainment.  We are comparing spending $15 a month in one MMO to spending little or nothing in another.  How you justify how much you spend is your issue, let others do the same.

Myself I couldn't care less if it's f2p, b2p or p2p.  If I like it, I'll spend money on it. If I don't like it I won't play it.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Eladi

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1073

11/21/12 2:16:29 AM#5
just wait a while and you hate it even more ;)  its more and more common for f2p/free minium  games to Offer a subcription to acces ..80% of the game but keep a lot of stuff (usaly  costumes and alike)  in the shop for you to buy :P
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/21/12 2:41:47 AM#6
Originally posted by Strycker

This will be a short, little post/rant.

Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

When I pay my $15 a month I:

- Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

- KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

- My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

- It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

You don't quite understand 'barrier to entry'.

Every step in the funnel toward getting a person into the game is a barrier to entry. One of the reasons many subscription games moved the credit card info off the free trial was because that, too, was a barrier to entry.  It was another step in the process of getting into the game. For most remaining subscription MMOs, the entire trial signup process has even been reduced to one single page (ex: WOW, EVE) to reduce the steps along the way to get people into the game. The barrier isn't the amount of money, rather the extra step and extra decision in that process (for either box fee or subscription fee) when trying the game. It does not refer to monthly cost or financial ability to handle ongoing payments.

For the other points, it's rather clear you don't have any interest in an answer other than RAWR UR RIGHT RAWR, so I won't suffer you through any counterpoints on them.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  gordiflu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 764

11/21/12 3:00:02 AM#7
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 
 

I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

 

Which ones?

Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

11/21/12 3:01:37 AM#8

I think I'm a P2P proponent, but it's hard to be so because of WoW's stupid Burning Crusade which kind of broke the covenant of paying $15/month for continual content development.

In other words, P2P is preferable in the current itterations of B2P, FTP, Freemium, but the stupid x-pacs are sort of shooting the model in the foot.

(My stupid opinion.)

  keotsu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 12

11/21/12 3:05:57 AM#9

$48 usd per month with modem rental - my broadband from comcast in Sacramento for 25mb throughput

$15 Swtor, $15 Rift, $15 the sercret world, per month guess i can switch to FTP on swtor now.

i think im moving more towards, cancel games, cancel internet, spend all that money i save, on a '67 Impala, Candy Apple Red with Bench leather seats, and a gutteral idle sounding engine. 50 series tires and a month time spent in hmm where to cruise..a hell with it i'll just sit in the driveway looking good and go nowhere.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4916

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/21/12 3:31:49 AM#10
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 
 

I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

 

Which ones?

Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5517

11/21/12 3:41:34 AM#11
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 
 

I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

 

Which ones?

Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

Really don't see how you could have played those games, most of them at that, without noticing, or being reminded of, the cash shops etc, you'd have to have some really 'blinkered' gameplay not to have, as in some of them its a very intrusive factor of the game.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4916

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/21/12 3:44:40 AM#12
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 
 

I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

 

Which ones?

Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

Really don't see how you could have played those games, most of them at that, without noticing, or being reminded of, the cash shops etc, you'd have to have some really 'blinkered' gameplay not to have, as in some of them its a very intrusive factor of the game.

Nope they were just as I stated.  They were at the log in screen but in game it was a tiny little button in the corner.  Thats it.  If you consider something off in the corner to be intrusive I guess it was.  To me it was a non-issue, no more intrusive than the date/time on my desktop.

 

edit screenshots on new bard alt:

log in screen  in game screen

EQ and EQ2 they are a button in the bottom left and even smaller.  Haven't played those in a few months so not going to redownload the game just to grab some screenshots.  CoH, Aion and CO I dont' even recall seeing a button, I"m sure they were there but dont' recall what it looked like or where it was only that I wasn't bothered by it. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

11/21/12 3:49:21 AM#13

50 cents a day for 24/7 entertainment and no cash shops............ any day.

Find me cheaper entertainment!

F2P games suck simple as that. 90% of them turn pay to win, and you must pay for the simplest things that the majority of subscription games take for granted. You end up spending more at a cash shop for the average gamer than the 15$ a month for everything. Dont see the issue.

  Strycker

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/05
Posts: 55

 
OP  11/21/12 4:06:15 AM#14

Can't respond to everyone, but I am interested in counter points (And you wouldn't know if I was or not since I only made one post). Fair enough on the point as well about clarifying barrier of entry, although I'd believe it's a combination of having to go through X steps and pay X amount. However, looking at MMO's lately, the one's that are doing financially well while still remaining reputable are the subscription MMO's (WOW, EVE, RIFT).

 

It really comes down to whether F2P buys total up to the revenue from a subscription model. In terms of feeling obligated to play because of the subscription model: Someone else put it perfectly; Wouldn't buying that $15 sword make you feel obligated as well?

 

On immersion: Either you haven't been immersed in an MMO yet (Understandably because MMO's are becoming less immersive/not worlds, blah blah - won't get into that argument) but Cash Shops certaintly aren't helping. Recently, TOR comes to mind, I logged in and couldn't even have access to a third hotbar without paying. Applies to all F2P MMO's I've played, perhaps you adapt to it eventually, but the lure is always lingering somewhere (And it has to be for revenue). By the way, not necessarily directly through your UI.

 

Another point comes to mind as well: The impact on community which I'll let someone else iterate on.

 

 

 

  Purutzil

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2910

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

11/21/12 4:11:57 AM#15

The only issue with $15 a month is the fact that its a steady payment you need to make for a game you might just not feel like playing all that much one month yet still have to pay $15. In the end though its likely going to save more money then a game that is F2P.

 

Still, a freemium model can be alright so long as they do it right and they don't end up padding it with good that even subscribers have to purchase (which sadly happens a lot, though I understand why). I think that a sub model is in some way phasing out, as in a way a lot of sub games actually have a 'freemium' model in place, just instead it has B2P for the box which freemium games end up getting their money for the box by providing extra items tempting subscribers to pay more for and charging for some portions of content.

 

Over-all though, I feel that a sub fee is a great way for a game to continue to grow without forcing upon so much extra stuff and ending up likely costing a person who really enjoys the game a lot more in having to buy all the little goods they want extra they offer that just a sub won't cover.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4916

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/21/12 4:15:14 AM#16
Originally posted by Strycker

Can't respond to everyone, but I am interested in counter points (And you wouldn't know if I was or not since I only made one post). Fair enough on the point as well about clarifying barrier of entry, although I'd believe it's a combination of having to go through X steps and pay X amount. However, looking at MMO's lately, the one's that are doing financially well while still remaining reputable are the subscription MMO's (WOW, EVE, RIFT).

 

It really comes down to whether F2P buys total up to the revenue from a subscription model. In terms of feeling obligated to play because of the subscription model: Someone else put it perfectly; Wouldn't buying that $15 sword make you feel obligated as well?

 

On immersion: Either you haven't been immersed in an MMO yet (Understandably because MMO's are becoming less immersive/not worlds, blah blah - won't get into that argument) but Cash Shops certaintly aren't helping. Recently, TOR comes to mind, I logged in and couldn't even have access to a third hotbar without paying. Applies to all F2P MMO's I've played, perhaps you adapt to it eventually, but the lure is always lingering somewhere (And it has to be for revenue). By the way, not necessarily directly through your UI.

 

Another point comes to mind as well: The impact on community which I'll let someone else iterate on.

 

 

 

Regarding the financial well statement (as everything else was subjective) I'm not entirely sure that is true.  Wow is certainly doing well, as is Rift.  However Eve laid off 20% of its staff last year.  Lotro and Eq2 seem to be doing quite well still (actually not sure anymore about EQ2 as haven't played or read about it in several months), but lotro is doing well.

Also the games that are not doing well f2p, were not doing well as p2p either.  The payment model didn't change bad gameplay. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

11/21/12 6:54:08 AM#17
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Nope they were just as I stated.  They were at the log in screen but in game it was a tiny little button in the corner.  Thats it.  If you consider something off in the corner to be intrusive I guess it was.  To me it was a non-issue, no more intrusive than the date/time on my desktop.

 

edit screenshots on new bard alt:

log in screen  in game screen

EQ and EQ2 they are a button in the bottom left and even smaller.  Haven't played those in a few months so not going to redownload the game just to grab some screenshots.  CoH, Aion and CO I dont' even recall seeing a button, I"m sure they were there but dont' recall what it looked like or where it was only that I wasn't bothered by it. 

Half of Everquest's loot is prestige, every prestige item requires you to upgrade to a gold membership or you can't equip it. Every augment that is prestige reminds you to buy a gold membership. Your missing bag slots remind you to either go Gold or buy storage space from the cash shop. Mercenaries over J1 require you to buy them from the cash shop or buy Gold membership. Mercenary slots require you to buy them from the cash shop. AA abilities require  money if you're not Gold,  unlocking classes requires you to buy them from the cash shop or go Gold. Owning over a certain amount of platinum, costs real life money or you need to buy a Gold membership.

No kidding you're not reminded, you are continiously reminded in the game itself on every other turn that you have to pay for everything under the sun. The gameplay itself is locked behind paywalls, the more you progress, the more paywalls you run into, and then you have 2 options, either pay a lot of money in the cash shop or go P2P. EQ is not a F2P game, it's a F2P trial and if you want to get anywhere in the game you have to pay. Raid items are prestige, you either pay or you're never wearing a raid item. You would be useless as a character if you didn't eventually get good augments and unlocked more AA. You can't even progress beyond a certain point if you don't spend money to ulock enough AA.

Claiming it's just a simple button on the side is misinterpretation to the extreme, if you play EQ as a F2P game, you either buy unlocks for gear and AA, or you stop playing the game when you run into the paywalls, and you will run into them after you need more than a few hundred AA and actually want your character to progress instead of dying on every mob.

That never happened when games were simply P2P.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3558

11/21/12 7:04:33 AM#18

my 2 cents..

     First, the cost of $15 is not a problem if ALL you plan on doing is playing one game at a time..  Some do that, and some don't.. I'm one of those some don't kind of guys..  There are days I feel like Sci Fi, and there are days I feel like super hero and other days I feel LoTRish, GW2ish or even WoW ish.. etc etc..  With a subscription plan like SOE loves to do, or Blizzard or Trion, etc, they are basically encouraging you to exclusively play their game only..  The reason why I own 1 car is because of cost..  Now someone like me that likes to play maybe 3, 4 or 5 different games a month, I'm sure as hell not going to fork out $15 for each one of them... That excuse of it's only $15 goes right out the window.. Tell us how easy it is to shell out $100 a month for gaming?  I personally LOVE the B2P model that GW2 is using.. I wish ALL games followed that format.. I play it casually, sometimes only once or twice a week and NEVER feel that I'm wasting money on something I'm not playing..

     As for my thoughts of $15.. I think that is just a lame excuse waste of money cash cow for the devs that can get away with it.. Back in the day it was mostly justified, but nowadays I think it's just excess profit..  It has become normal and standard policy to charge a sub for a MMO, and the general public accepts it as such.. I don't, not anymore.. Remember when it used to be normal for cars to charge you extra for automatic, FM radio etc etc.. Those are now standard and are a insignificant cost of the car and for good reason..

     As a result.. I no longer play EQ2, EQ1, WoW, Rift, LoTRO and SWTOR because of their subscription plans.. Their F2P models are insane, and I'm not going to pay a $15 sub for each and every one of them.. So I play GW2 exclusively for now.. I have yet to buy one thing from Arenanet, and only have 1 character to 80th, and still exploring.. 

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

11/21/12 7:08:19 AM#19
Originally posted by aladinversuk
i'd rather play in a F2P server rather than a subscribtion based one. having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted. in a f2p server, vip or premium services are optional and you can pick it up whenever you feel like it.

 

'wasted'?

How little would you actually have to play in a week to feel like £2.50 (or thereabouts) was 'wasted'? An hour? Two?

My thought is that if you are playing less than an hour a week in a MMORPG often enough to feel the burn of the 'waste' then maybe this genre isn't for you.

My opinion is that the sub offers amazing value on an ongoing basis and promotes better core game design and a more stable community, with less focus on manipulating you into spending, and a more even play field for play to achieve gamers.

 

I actually think that the F2P model is pretty destructive to these games on a number of levels and, overall, represent worse value (under the often illusion of 'choice').

 

  207312

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 30

11/21/12 7:14:22 AM#20

Eh. I'd rather pay 15$ a month, since I hate in-game stores. I mean - - look at so many games nowadays. Almost all free games that do not have "Freemium" has an ingame store that sells items/gold. I'm happy paying 15$ and not worrying about all that stuff, assuming the game is good enough.

 

I'm rather sad that theres no mmorpgs similar to "Runescape". I personally don't like runescape, but the fact that 3 brothers started it in their mother's basement is rather inspiring. Nowadays all games are made by companies that are just looking for money -- without really caring about it's playerbase. That's pretty much runescape has become too -- ever since the brothers lost control of Runescape. We really need a large-scale MMORPG that is created by a small group of experienced people that actually know eachother. AKA, a large-scale indie MMORPG.

 

And for the record, I'm not that intelligent . So no trolling me, please. If you disagree with anything, just give me constructive criticism. Last time I made a very simple post and I was pretty much assaulted by hate- .

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