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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Modern MMOs: Stop trying to make me into a special little snowflake.

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131 posts found
  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

11/20/12 2:35:27 PM#61

Half yes half no.

I don't not need to be a hero or chosen one in a MMO. SWTOR clearly overdid this, because just being a simple Creature Handler or Dancer in SWG was just as fun.

However, I want my quests, if anything, more personalized even. I really have enough of generic quests. Sure some part of the quests can be generic. Maybe half of it. But I certainly want some sort of personal recognition. SWTOR did this WAAAY too less in my book, because whatever you do or decide, almost nothing of it ever came back to you (contrary to what Bioware promised!).

 

I do not need to be a hero, but I want the game to react to me and my doings. I want choices and consequences that come back to me in the game and make some different in my experience.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/20/12 2:43:46 PM#62
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by mmoDAD

I'm the chosen one... again.

A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

 

 

Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

It's not because the games descend from RPGs. It's because some developers (the WoW clone devs mostly) don't understand the strengths of an MMO..

 

Since you felt compelled to correct him, could you share what you are basing that on?

Hopefully it's not some weak "just look around" crap and that there's actual meat to your reply. It would be great to hear from an industry insider like you rather than from some armchair developer that talks out his ass on topics he doesn't know a damn thing about.

 

I already did, but you cleverly left it out of your quote.

MMOs will never be good singleplayer games. The strength of an MMO comes from the story generated by the players.

  karat76

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 998

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

11/20/12 2:54:59 PM#63
I am mostly with you. I would like more open worlds that felt like worlds not themeparks just minus any ffa pvp. Aside from the botters and multiboxers DAoC to me was a wonderful game until Atlantis. Even the Original EQ was decent until Scars of Velious.
  User Deleted
11/20/12 2:55:53 PM#64

The main issue I see with storyline gameplay in MMORPGs is that the world is completely static.  Nothing stays dead.  No achievement stays achieved, tasks all reset.  It's difficult to be the "hero" when what you did doesn't change anything.

 

The problem is that if permanent changes were possible, the first players woul get to do them and everyone after would be stuck standing around with nothing to do.

 

Time doesn't move.  It's like the grounhog day movie with the same events happenening over and over.

 

As much as I dislike phasing, it seems to be the means to an end where time does move forward allowing storyline to progress and changes to be seen as permanent from the character's perspective.

 

So the good side is that technology exists to offer storyline mode.  The drawback is that it chops up a full world into time slivers making the world feel disconnected and discouraging grouping for players who are not in the same phase of a given area.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2527

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

11/20/12 2:58:58 PM#65

My favorite is when I get called a Hero endlessly and cheered by everyone around me like I'm some kind of god. 

Looking back at the history of MMOs, they really have become pathetic these days.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9934

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/20/12 2:59:39 PM#66


Originally posted by XAPGames
The main issue I see with storyline gameplay in MMORPGs is that the world is completely static.  Nothing stays dead.  No achievement stays achieved, tasks all reset.  It's difficult to be the "hero" when what you did doesn't change anything.

The problem is that if permanent changes were possible, the first players woul get to do them and everyone after would be stuck standing around with nothing to do.

Time doesn't move.  It's like the grounhog day movie with the same events happenening over and over.

As much as I dislike phasing, it seems to be the means to an end where time does move forward allowing storyline to progress and changes to be seen as permanent from the character's perspective.

So the good side is that technology exists to offer storyline mode.  The drawback is that it chops up a full world into time slivers making the world feel disconnected and discouraging grouping for players who are not in the same phase of a given area.




I've often wondered if a game where players progress through theme park story content first, and then live in the sandbox world at end game would work. Players could 'retire' as farmers, or they could continue fighting the good fight in PvE or PvP content, just without the tightly scripted quest content.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/20/12 3:07:19 PM#67
Originally posted by Elikal

Half yes half no.

I don't not need to be a hero or chosen one in a MMO. SWTOR clearly overdid this, because just being a simple Creature Handler or Dancer in SWG was just as fun.

However, I want my quests, if anything, more personalized even. I really have enough of generic quests. Sure some part of the quests can be generic. Maybe half of it. But I certainly want some sort of personal recognition. SWTOR did this WAAAY too less in my book, because whatever you do or decide, almost nothing of it ever came back to you (contrary to what Bioware promised!).

 

I do not need to be a hero, but I want the game to react to me and my doings. I want choices and consequences that come back to me in the game and make some different in my experience.

Oh I agree with that, but it would be easy to make quests or bit of a story for not-hero. Even easier than for hero imo.

  Lissyl

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 189

If cosmetics aren't content, why don't people demand a cheaper game done in full grayscale?

11/20/12 3:13:34 PM#68

I would say the tendency to be the hero/heroine constantly (ie, the special snowflake) in games is a trend that follows the tabletop genre almost perfectly.  You could practically graph them out and lay them atop one another with virtually no distinction, starting with the sandboxes/OD&D all the way to SWTOR and the rise of the storygame while long-lived games like WoW match more up with modern D&D (including its evolution of simplifying character interactions/choices and D&DNext).

I wouldn't find any of this surprising, really.

  Skymourne

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/11
Posts: 307

11/20/12 3:24:51 PM#69
Originally posted by mmoDAD

I'm the chosen one... again.

A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

 

 

Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

I kind of get what you are saying here.  Although i dont' see it the exact same way, i too am a little tired of being the savior of every game. 

It is nice to be insignifigant, at least until the end of the leveling process, because i want to feel as if we are all forging our own legends in the game.  If you are already a legend at level 1, then there's really no room for growth.  Rand al'Thor was an insignifigant backwoods ant before discovering that he was the Dragon Reborn in the Wheel of Time series.  He wasn't a world burner until like book 5.  

I like a slow build with an epic finish.  That's just me though.  Others may feel differently.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

11/20/12 3:34:20 PM#70
Originally posted by BadSpock

... because the alternative is thus far pretty much impossible to program and maintain.

The answer is NOT 100% player to player interaction with zero NPC's or developer crafted anything because 75% of players are morons and the game would end up like Second Life.

The answer is ridiculously complex multi-layered AI but the complexities of the sytem neccessary to make it work in a MMO is.. staggering to even try and explain on this forum.

Some of it would be hard and other things would just be a different way of developing... some are even being done as we speak.

 

If a complex system is programmed really, really well at the beginning it should mean less work later. Notice in the quotes below the concept of "Dens"... pretty well what I described in one of my posts above except these "orcs" don't travel as far... they do however behave in a more organic non-respawning way... or in GW2 speak, actually "dynamic"

 

(from Game Features - Nations)

Growing a city will cause NPCs start to appear in the city, and as players open shops other NPCs will appear to run those shops. Since the mission system we offer is dynamic, it will be able to make use of the NPCs in the cities and the surrounding wilderness area for job offerings. Another important part of the wilderness is spawning areas we refer to as dens. Dens are a physical object that can be destroyed and that will stop critters from spawning out into the world. If the dens go unchecked, the area will start to crawl with critters and eventually they will start to grow in size as well as numbers. Critters offer economical value for crafting, like many other games. They provide all sorts of needed components that can be extracted once they are dead. The critters and dens can also be targeted during missions offering PvE elements from the cities and additional resources for crafters and adventurers both.

...

(from Game Features - Missions)

The generated mission system works on the concept of templates and roles. Missions are created from templates which can specify a variety of criteria. Each of our NPCs has a variety of settings that make them eligible or ineligible for certain generated mission types. This includes a mix of static and changing traits. Their Profession and Personality for example are static traits. While their Mood and Dilemma are mutating traits. Mutating traits can be altered by yourself or other players completing missions. For example, if you double cross an NPC with a Vindictive personality, they may seek revenge. Each Dilemma has a cause, and that cause can be either a player or an NPC

 

These guys are trying to do The Repopulation as a "sandbox done right" (AKA "hybrid".) I wish them all the success because they have some great ideas:

http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

11/20/12 4:04:54 PM#71
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by BadSpock

... because the alternative is thus far pretty much impossible to program and maintain.

The answer is NOT 100% player to player interaction with zero NPC's or developer crafted anything because 75% of players are morons and the game would end up like Second Life.

The answer is ridiculously complex multi-layered AI but the complexities of the sytem neccessary to make it work in a MMO is.. staggering to even try and explain on this forum.

Some of it would be hard and other things would just be a different way of developing... some are even being done as we speak.

If a complex system is programmed really, really well at the beginning it should mean less work later. Notice in the quotes below the concept of "Dens"... pretty well what I described in one of my posts above except these "orcs" don't travel as far... they do however behave in a more organic non-respawning way... or in GW2 speak, actually "dynamic"

(from Game Features - Nations)

Growing a city will cause NPCs start to appear in the city, and as players open shops other NPCs will appear to run those shops. Since the mission system we offer is dynamic, it will be able to make use of the NPCs in the cities and the surrounding wilderness area for job offerings. Another important part of the wilderness is spawning areas we refer to as dens. Dens are a physical object that can be destroyed and that will stop critters from spawning out into the world. If the dens go unchecked, the area will start to crawl with critters and eventually they will start to grow in size as well as numbers. Critters offer economical value for crafting, like many other games. They provide all sorts of needed components that can be extracted once they are dead. The critters and dens can also be targeted during missions offering PvE elements from the cities and additional resources for crafters and adventurers both.

...

(from Game Features - Missions)

The generated mission system works on the concept of templates and roles. Missions are created from templates which can specify a variety of criteria. Each of our NPCs has a variety of settings that make them eligible or ineligible for certain generated mission types. This includes a mix of static and changing traits. Their Profession and Personality for example are static traits. While their Mood and Dilemma are mutating traits. Mutating traits can be altered by yourself or other players completing missions. For example, if you double cross an NPC with a Vindictive personality, they may seek revenge. Each Dilemma has a cause, and that cause can be either a player or an NPC

These guys are trying to do The Repopulation as a "sandbox done right" (AKA "hybrid".) I wish them all the success because they have some great ideas:

http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

11/20/12 4:35:38 PM#72
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by BadSpock

... because the alternative is thus far pretty much impossible to program and maintain.

The answer is NOT 100% player to player interaction with zero NPC's or developer crafted anything because 75% of players are morons and the game would end up like Second Life.

The answer is ridiculously complex multi-layered AI but the complexities of the sytem neccessary to make it work in a MMO is.. staggering to even try and explain on this forum.

Some of it would be hard and other things would just be a different way of developing... some are even being done as we speak.

If a complex system is programmed really, really well at the beginning it should mean less work later. Notice in the quotes below the concept of "Dens"... pretty well what I described in one of my posts above except these "orcs" don't travel as far... they do however behave in a more organic non-respawning way... or in GW2 speak, actually "dynamic"

(from Game Features - Nations)

Growing a city will cause NPCs start to appear in the city, and as players open shops other NPCs will appear to run those shops. Since the mission system we offer is dynamic, it will be able to make use of the NPCs in the cities and the surrounding wilderness area for job offerings. Another important part of the wilderness is spawning areas we refer to as dens. Dens are a physical object that can be destroyed and that will stop critters from spawning out into the world. If the dens go unchecked, the area will start to crawl with critters and eventually they will start to grow in size as well as numbers. Critters offer economical value for crafting, like many other games. They provide all sorts of needed components that can be extracted once they are dead. The critters and dens can also be targeted during missions offering PvE elements from the cities and additional resources for crafters and adventurers both.

...

(from Game Features - Missions)

The generated mission system works on the concept of templates and roles. Missions are created from templates which can specify a variety of criteria. Each of our NPCs has a variety of settings that make them eligible or ineligible for certain generated mission types. This includes a mix of static and changing traits. Their Profession and Personality for example are static traits. While their Mood and Dilemma are mutating traits. Mutating traits can be altered by yourself or other players completing missions. For example, if you double cross an NPC with a Vindictive personality, they may seek revenge. Each Dilemma has a cause, and that cause can be either a player or an NPC

These guys are trying to do The Repopulation as a "sandbox done right" (AKA "hybrid".) I wish them all the success because they have some great ideas:

http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

 I hear you but let me point out two things: these are player created towns with shops, houses etc. owned by players and once they reach a certain size, neutral structures such as cloning facilities (player respawns) etc. And many resources are not mob-dependent. Those will stil be there.

Also, dens themselves spawn producing different mobs (semi random types) in other nearby locations. They'll be re-spawning dens for game play purposes instead of individual mobs. How they manage it will be the key in maintaining a replenishing interesting ecology balanced against the types of artificial game mechanics most MMOs use now.

I think these guys have indeed done their homework.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/20/12 4:36:18 PM#73
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Iselin
 

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

Well actually UO ecology system was not even tried to be saved, at least not for long anyway.  Unless my memory fails me, ecology system failed very fast (no animals, mobs especially weaker ones because players slaughtered them way too fast than anticipated) and because it needed to be "fixed" fast. It was replaced with standard spawn system.  

Now wonder 'what if' someone would try to adjust and change this system knowing how players behave?   

It was one try and scrapped fast.  Imho not enough to know that idea is impossible to implement.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6381

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

11/20/12 4:39:24 PM#74

I agree with you OP and that is why I have a hard time getting immersed in quest driven, story based MMORPGs. 

So you want me to kill this bad ass NPC, even though I know he has been killed by a thousands of other players before me in the same "world"?

Sorry but no. Single player quests in MMORPGs is a big fail.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

11/20/12 4:40:44 PM#75
Originally posted by Zekiah

My favorite is when I get called a Hero endlessly and cheered by everyone around me like I'm some kind of god. 

Looking back at the history of MMOs, they really have become pathetic these days.

i fell like this more and more lately. Is it because we now have ribbons and trophys for just showing up to stuff that i feel like this? could be my age showing.

i dont like the way things are heading but i dont have 300 mil bucks to do anything about it. so ill just have to wait in the shadows till someone with 300 mil and some fucking balls shows up and makes that dare to be great mmo.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6381

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

11/20/12 4:41:48 PM#76
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by BadSpock

... because the alternative is thus far pretty much impossible to program and maintain.

The answer is NOT 100% player to player interaction with zero NPC's or developer crafted anything because 75% of players are morons and the game would end up like Second Life.

The answer is ridiculously complex multi-layered AI but the complexities of the sytem neccessary to make it work in a MMO is.. staggering to even try and explain on this forum.

Some of it would be hard and other things would just be a different way of developing... some are even being done as we speak.

If a complex system is programmed really, really well at the beginning it should mean less work later. Notice in the quotes below the concept of "Dens"... pretty well what I described in one of my posts above except these "orcs" don't travel as far... they do however behave in a more organic non-respawning way... or in GW2 speak, actually "dynamic"

(from Game Features - Nations)

Growing a city will cause NPCs start to appear in the city, and as players open shops other NPCs will appear to run those shops. Since the mission system we offer is dynamic, it will be able to make use of the NPCs in the cities and the surrounding wilderness area for job offerings. Another important part of the wilderness is spawning areas we refer to as dens. Dens are a physical object that can be destroyed and that will stop critters from spawning out into the world. If the dens go unchecked, the area will start to crawl with critters and eventually they will start to grow in size as well as numbers. Critters offer economical value for crafting, like many other games. They provide all sorts of needed components that can be extracted once they are dead. The critters and dens can also be targeted during missions offering PvE elements from the cities and additional resources for crafters and adventurers both.

...

(from Game Features - Missions)

The generated mission system works on the concept of templates and roles. Missions are created from templates which can specify a variety of criteria. Each of our NPCs has a variety of settings that make them eligible or ineligible for certain generated mission types. This includes a mix of static and changing traits. Their Profession and Personality for example are static traits. While their Mood and Dilemma are mutating traits. Mutating traits can be altered by yourself or other players completing missions. For example, if you double cross an NPC with a Vindictive personality, they may seek revenge. Each Dilemma has a cause, and that cause can be either a player or an NPC

These guys are trying to do The Repopulation as a "sandbox done right" (AKA "hybrid".) I wish them all the success because they have some great ideas:

http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

And if they dont follow the rules then they will get punished, that is how systems work. Any type of system. Positive and negative feedback system.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/20/12 4:44:58 PM#77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by BadSpock

... because the alternative is thus far pretty much impossible to program and maintain.

The answer is NOT 100% player to player interaction with zero NPC's or developer crafted anything because 75% of players are morons and the game would end up like Second Life.

The answer is ridiculously complex multi-layered AI but the complexities of the sytem neccessary to make it work in a MMO is.. staggering to even try and explain on this forum.

Some of it would be hard and other things would just be a different way of developing... some are even being done as we speak.

If a complex system is programmed really, really well at the beginning it should mean less work later. Notice in the quotes below the concept of "Dens"... pretty well what I described in one of my posts above except these "orcs" don't travel as far... they do however behave in a more organic non-respawning way... or in GW2 speak, actually "dynamic"

(from Game Features - Nations)

Growing a city will cause NPCs start to appear in the city, and as players open shops other NPCs will appear to run those shops. Since the mission system we offer is dynamic, it will be able to make use of the NPCs in the cities and the surrounding wilderness area for job offerings. Another important part of the wilderness is spawning areas we refer to as dens. Dens are a physical object that can be destroyed and that will stop critters from spawning out into the world. If the dens go unchecked, the area will start to crawl with critters and eventually they will start to grow in size as well as numbers. Critters offer economical value for crafting, like many other games. They provide all sorts of needed components that can be extracted once they are dead. The critters and dens can also be targeted during missions offering PvE elements from the cities and additional resources for crafters and adventurers both.

...

(from Game Features - Missions)

The generated mission system works on the concept of templates and roles. Missions are created from templates which can specify a variety of criteria. Each of our NPCs has a variety of settings that make them eligible or ineligible for certain generated mission types. This includes a mix of static and changing traits. Their Profession and Personality for example are static traits. While their Mood and Dilemma are mutating traits. Mutating traits can be altered by yourself or other players completing missions. For example, if you double cross an NPC with a Vindictive personality, they may seek revenge. Each Dilemma has a cause, and that cause can be either a player or an NPC

These guys are trying to do The Repopulation as a "sandbox done right" (AKA "hybrid".) I wish them all the success because they have some great ideas:

http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

And if they dont follow the rules then they will get punished, that is how systems work. Any type of system. Positive and negative feedback system.

Yeah systems without punishent for breaking the rules does not work.   Examples can be found in real life and also in games. In games - in example - the more anonymous and automatic game is the more asshatery there is. 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/20/12 4:45:26 PM#78
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I already did, but you cleverly left it out of your quote.

MMOs will never be good singleplayer games. The strength of an MMO comes from the story generated by the players.

The players produce, in general terms, nothing much more than piles of corpses in all directions.

Crittur corpses, or other players.  In one game, clouds of atomized space debris.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16596

11/20/12 4:54:05 PM#79
Originally posted by Yamota

 

So you want me to kill this bad ass NPC, even though I know he has been killed by a thousands of other players before me in the same "world"?

 

Except that's where you and others falter.

Your not supposed to think beyond the story and infer that others have killed the same bad ass NPC; that  thousands of other players have done the same deeds. That's where the "role play" part comes in and that's where many players mess up because they are too stuck in the "literal" reality of what is happening.

And that's why theme park mmo's don't work for everyone.

Because, if I play a game of skyrim and I kill the Ulfric Storm Cloak that's not stopping thousands of other players from doing the same. The only thing that maintains the illusion is that it's a single player game. He's still being kill by thousands of other players. In an mmo with other players inhabiting the same space, you still have to adopt that "it was only you who was approoached to kill "Thurm the Tall". You are supposed to adopt a role play reason and immerse yourself in the quest that is given.

But players can't seem to do that.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

11/20/12 5:07:12 PM#80
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Iselin
 

What happens IRL though in that system is that Player A doesn't follow their carefully laid plans, and farms out/kills every single Den within a days walk from the town. And now, all of a sudden, there are no enemies to fight near the town and players stop coming to the town and the NPC's stop spawning and populating and you get yet another failed ghost town.

The Repopulation devs need to do some research into the history of UO and specifically their whole dynamic ecology system.

I appluad them for trying something new, but systems only work - no matter how complex or how simple - if players follow the rules.

Well actually UO ecology system was not even tried to be saved, at least not for long anyway.  Unless my memory fails me, ecology system failed very fast (no animals, mobs especially weaker ones because players slaughtered them way too fast than anticipated) and because it needed to be "fixed" fast. It was replaced with standard spawn system.  

Now wonder 'what if' someone would try to adjust and change this system knowing how players behave?   

It was one try and scrapped fast.  Imho not enough to know that idea is impossible to implement.

Exactly. It just needs to be done with some anticipation and contingency plans. I think what we all hate and have gotten increasingly bored with is the system that regenerates the same 6 mobs you just killed, including the one veteran level mob, 2 minutes after you killed them in exactly the same spot... it's just the same "ride" restarting for the next customer.

There is a lot of room between that extreme and the empty zone. The area should be kept alive and interesting but better mechanics need to be used... In real life ecologies evolve and open niches are taken over by the next species in line. All it takes is some acceleration of natural processes and we have a more immersive and believable changing environment. All a developer would need to do is increase or decrease the rate as needed.

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