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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Do mmorpgs need to die? AKA MMORPG phoenix

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121 posts found
  pkpkpk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 74

10/08/12 1:30:12 AM#21

Amen... I agree completely.  

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6083

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

10/08/12 2:19:19 AM#22
Originally posted by rush1984

Before you jump the gun , im not saying they need to die completely

what i beleive is that in order for mmorpgs to get back to the original state,for example UO , vannila wow etc

i beleive the genre needs to die, it needs to die so badly that all those those players that aint really Fans get bored and leave

it needs to die to the extent that only the true fans are left so that once again  the games become games made for fans by fans of the genre.

your probaly thinking whats a true fan? maybe im using the wrong choice of words so ill try to explain, back when mmorpgs were only played by us geeks (sorry to be blunt) the communitys was 10x better heck even 100x but with the success with wow it ultimately brought alot of players to the genre that woulnt have had  given it a second glance previously. This imo is what destroyed the community its like a bunch of party crashers that refuse to leave and then make demands on the host to change the music..."think forums and whines for nerfs .. and "this is too hard" or "i dont have enough time in teh day to do this its not fair i want my free epics"

I just feel these games aint made for "us" anymore

So thats why i think this genre needs to die if only to be reborn and be for "us" once again

 

 

 

Do you understand that this genre has created allot of "new fans?"

 

Do you understand that while you say the community was 10x or even 100 times better that the community is also 10x or even 100 times bigger today?

I do not want this genre to die because this genre has generated so many new "true fans"

Yes I am a hugh fan of the old, still SWG is to me the best MMORPG I have ever played, yes I wished that MMORPG would evolve beyond that and go even deeper. I want my MMORPG to be akin to a virtual world where it's both combat and none-combat.

But that doesn't mean I do not want all those other games around me that I might dislike, cause regardless my dislike those other games are played and enjoyed by thousands if not millions of other now new fans.

But I do believe there is room for several different type of MMORPG's and hopefully one day we will see a more virtual world type of MMORPG

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2391

10/08/12 2:44:06 AM#23

Yes. I had a big thing typed but it went away so I'll just say. Yes.

 

Either MMos need to die or people need to stop calling games that CLEARLY aren't MMOs, MMOs.

We need to get back to the passionate devs who made good games before publishers invaded in WoW and its clones.

  User Deleted
 
OP  10/08/12 8:32:33 AM#24
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by rush1984

Before you jump the gun , im not saying they need to die completely

what i beleive is that in order for mmorpgs to get back to the original state,for example UO , vannila wow etc

i beleive the genre needs to die, it needs to die so badly that all those those players that aint really Fans get bored and leave

it needs to die to the extent that only the true fans are left so that once again  the games become games made for fans by fans of the genre.

your probaly thinking whats a true fan? maybe im using the wrong choice of words so ill try to explain, back when mmorpgs were only played by us geeks (sorry to be blunt) the communitys was 10x better heck even 100x but with the success with wow it ultimately brought alot of players to the genre that woulnt have had  given it a second glance previously. This imo is what destroyed the community its like a bunch of party crashers that refuse to leave and then make demands on the host to change the music..."think forums and whines for nerfs .. and "this is too hard" or "i dont have enough time in teh day to do this its not fair i want my free epics"

I just feel these games aint made for "us" anymore

So thats why i think this genre needs to die if only to be reborn and be for "us" once again

 

 

 

Do you understand that this genre has created allot of "new fans?"

 

Do you understand that while you say the community was 10x or even 100 times better that the community is also 10x or even 100 times bigger today?

I do not want this genre to die because this genre has generated so many new "true fans"

Yes I am a hugh fan of the old, still SWG is to me the best MMORPG I have ever played, yes I wished that MMORPG would evolve beyond that and go even deeper. I want my MMORPG to be akin to a virtual world where it's both combat and none-combat.

But that doesn't mean I do not want all those other games around me that I might dislike, cause regardless my dislike those other games are played and enjoyed by thousands if not millions of other now new fans.

But I do believe there is room for several different type of MMORPG's and hopefully one day we will see a more virtual world type of MMORPG

new mmorpgs are not representative of what  mmorpgs should be or was in their glory days

they are catered towards the new generations of gamers that like everything handed to them on a silver plater and easy mode gameplay.

so yes your right there is alot more people playing this genre  alot of "new fans" but mmorpgs have changed and because of that the "new fans" are fans of something completely different to what old school players were "fans" of

 

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5139

10/08/12 8:46:54 AM#25

MMORPGs got killed of about six years ago and got replaced with MMO's for the solo gamer, about two years ago MMO's were shot dead by the casual crowd and now we have easyMMO's or ezMMO's. Each time the gaming houses have looked and then designed for a bigger playerbase, each time that new playerbase has decided they don't want to play a "MMO" after two or three months.

They are getting a ROI for games at launch, but long term (that is over the 3 month period) income is a pittance of what they could get before.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

10/08/12 8:50:59 AM#26

The genre is more popular than ever.  Just look at the sales figures on SWTOR and GW2.  It's jsut the devs not creating compelling endgame that causes their rapid population losses.

 

The problem is that MMOs are so complicated and expensive.  It's much harder/riskier to innovate and stand out.

 

From what I've heard. it sounds like Rift is the only MMO to target vanilla WOW lovers, but I may be wrong on that.  The problem is that almost no one got to experience Naxx in vanilla and that's a pretty small crowd to cater to.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6558

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/08/12 8:55:18 AM#27

Sorry to burst your UO/Wow bubble but we don't need anymore games like that.

We need more Tanaka's to take form and be creative with game design.Outside of FFXI i have seen VERY few ideas i would want in my game.

I would like to see someone take the FFXI ideas and expand on them,there is an amazing game there waiting to happen.Add in physics,destructive surfaces animated textures and tweaks to FFXi and you have the best game ever.

We need levels if we continue to use them to feel like actual aging,you shouldn't be level 20 in one day.We need EVERY level to be full of content and depth,NOT end games.Heck there shouldn't be any mention of end game unless your player actually dies.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Ravenmane

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/07
Posts: 246

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way.

10/08/12 9:09:22 AM#28

I think big publishers need to get out of the MMO industry (i.e. EA and Activision).  The quality of games were much better when the developers didn't have to worry about deadlines and meeting investor demands.  When the games took a while to develop because they weren't funded or needed a loan or development team was smaller, those were the games I usually had the fondest memory of because you can tell the developers really wanted to create something special in their own vision.

That being said I think a lot of people misconstrue what it is to be a developer.  I browse MMO forums a lot and constantly see posts like "Well V-Game Has This Feature, Why Can't We Have It?" and this makes me sad.  The developers are creating a game they envisioned to give to the community.  This is their work, their vision, their creativity.  But not every game needs to have a "Dungeon Finder" or an all-encompassing "Auction House" and other features.  These things are nice if they can fit in with the lore and the immersion of a game but if it feels out of place in a title it probably shouldn't be there.

Some of that probably makes people think "Well, if they want the players to make the money they need these things."  Not true.  The financial goal of a publisher is to rake in the cash.  A true developer wants to make the cash but ultimately wants to create a game to their liking that people will enjoy.  The genre got flooded by people who only cared about making money rather than making a game.  It's kind of like writing a book.  You have authors that put out tons of books to make money and are usually mediocre at best.  But then you have some who just wanted to write their story and share it and those are the best books.

In a nutshell, though, all of this is purely my opinion and I don't wish to preach it as the word of the MMO gods.  So take it as you will, just wanted to share.

"If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2756

I actually still like MMORPGs

10/08/12 9:19:06 AM#29

Your logic is flawed. In the days of UO, Meridian 59, EQ etc companies were investing in something new with the hopes that it would catch on and light the way for a new genre. Which it did, now if the genre died off enough that companies started losing money and closing up it would be a much different story.

It wouldn't be an "ok everyone else is gone, what do you guys want in your MMO?" type of situation. It would be a "Ya, we decided with the decline in popularity and profitability of the MMO genre that it would not be in our best interest to continue developement."

 

  Rodentofdoom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 273

10/08/12 9:26:51 AM#30

I'd like to agree with you, but I can't, because I feel you've missed a very important point.

It's not just the games/genre that have changed, the players have too.

 

10-15 years is a long time, and people can change a LOT during that amount of time

A wife or husband, 1+ children, a new job with wider responsibilities are all external things that affect us.

Age changes us too, a person at 35 will generally have markedly different attitudes and values than they did at 20, or 25 because they have experienced more of life, and that experience changes us.

 

 

The new modern gamer is not the same an old gamer, thier expectations are not the same. They don't have the same 'patience' ....

 

 

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 607

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

10/08/12 9:37:31 AM#31

This idiotic, noncontexual, argument is what needs to die.

You don't score any, 'cool', points stating something so blinkered that a mole could see through it.

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

10/08/12 10:31:28 AM#32
Originally posted by rush1984

Before you jump the gun , im not saying they need to die completely

what i beleive is that in order for mmorpgs to get back to the original state,for example UO , vannila wow etc

i beleive the genre needs to die, it needs to die so badly that all those those players that aint really Fans get bored and leave

it needs to die to the extent that only the true fans are left so that once again  the games become games made for fans by fans of the genre.

your probaly thinking whats a true fan? maybe im using the wrong choice of words so ill try to explain, back when mmorpgs were only played by us geeks (sorry to be blunt) the communitys was 10x better heck even 100x but with the success with wow it ultimately brought alot of players to the genre that woulnt have had  given it a second glance previously. This imo is what destroyed the community its like a bunch of party crashers that refuse to leave and then make demands on the host to change the music..."think forums and whines for nerfs .. and "this is too hard" or "i dont have enough time in teh day to do this its not fair i want my free epics"

I just feel these games aint made for "us" anymore

So thats why i think this genre needs to die if only to be reborn and be for "us" once again

 

 

 

 

Look this is entirely nonsensical. Are there some bad MMORPGs out there? Yes! But, you don't have to go and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many people are thoroughly enjoying the games they are playing(ie...World of Warcraft, Rift, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and many more great games out there). Killing the genre will not solve community issues; the fact is your types are just as hard to satisfy as the rest of us. You will only perpetuate an unending cycle. Find a game you like and create your own community. That is why WoW is so successful; it has so many people playing it everyone can find their group. Not everything lives up to ones first time; that is just reality. One of my favorite games of all time is Earthworm Jim. Now I have yet to play a game that excited me as much as that one did the first time I played it. I do not on the other hand think all gaming needs to die, so developers once again cater to my specific niche.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  User Deleted
 
OP  10/08/12 10:47:26 AM#33
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by rush1984

Before you jump the gun , im not saying they need to die completely

what i beleive is that in order for mmorpgs to get back to the original state,for example UO , vannila wow etc

i beleive the genre needs to die, it needs to die so badly that all those those players that aint really Fans get bored and leave

it needs to die to the extent that only the true fans are left so that once again  the games become games made for fans by fans of the genre.

your probaly thinking whats a true fan? maybe im using the wrong choice of words so ill try to explain, back when mmorpgs were only played by us geeks (sorry to be blunt) the communitys was 10x better heck even 100x but with the success with wow it ultimately brought alot of players to the genre that woulnt have had  given it a second glance previously. This imo is what destroyed the community its like a bunch of party crashers that refuse to leave and then make demands on the host to change the music..."think forums and whines for nerfs .. and "this is too hard" or "i dont have enough time in teh day to do this its not fair i want my free epics"

I just feel these games aint made for "us" anymore

So thats why i think this genre needs to die if only to be reborn and be for "us" once again

 

 

 

 

Look this is entirely nonsensical. Are there some bad MMORPGs out there? Yes! But, you don't have to go and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many people are thoroughly enjoying the games they are playing(ie...World of Warcraft, Rift, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and many more great games out there). Killing the genre will not solve community issues; the fact is your types are just as hard to satisfy as the rest of us. You will only perpetuate an unending cycle. Find a game you like and create your own community. That is why WoW is so successful; it has so many people playing it everyone can find their group. Not everything lives up to ones first time; that is just reality. One of my favorite games of all time is Earthworm Jim. Now I have yet to play a game that excited me as much as that one did the first time I played it. I do not on the other hand think all gaming needs to die, so developers once again cater to my specific niche.

lol earthworm jim wow that brings back some memories :D

i never said i want all gaming to die :O

 

 

 

  Randayn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 617

10/08/12 10:59:22 AM#34

This is why I am currently playing DF and Anarchy Online....

New games focus too much on graphics and cool your toon swinging an axe looks that actual content, difficulty, story and atmosphere.  

It almost feels like some games (TSW Im looking at you) attempted to bring some old style back, but then resorted right back to quest grinding through a relatively linear path, easy and fast leveling, complete disregard for itemization and loot options (look to anarchy online and all the different armor that drops in that game....). 

It's time for companies to stop putting money into constructing the candy when all they have is a rotten apple apply the candy to.

  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

10/08/12 12:08:07 PM#35
Originally posted by rush1984
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by rush1984

Before you jump the gun , im not saying they need to die completely

what i beleive is that in order for mmorpgs to get back to the original state,for example UO , vannila wow etc

i beleive the genre needs to die, it needs to die so badly that all those those players that aint really Fans get bored and leave

it needs to die to the extent that only the true fans are left so that once again  the games become games made for fans by fans of the genre.

your probaly thinking whats a true fan? maybe im using the wrong choice of words so ill try to explain, back when mmorpgs were only played by us geeks (sorry to be blunt) the communitys was 10x better heck even 100x but with the success with wow it ultimately brought alot of players to the genre that woulnt have had  given it a second glance previously. This imo is what destroyed the community its like a bunch of party crashers that refuse to leave and then make demands on the host to change the music..."think forums and whines for nerfs .. and "this is too hard" or "i dont have enough time in teh day to do this its not fair i want my free epics"

I just feel these games aint made for "us" anymore

So thats why i think this genre needs to die if only to be reborn and be for "us" once again

 

 

 

 

Look this is entirely nonsensical. Are there some bad MMORPGs out there? Yes! But, you don't have to go and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many people are thoroughly enjoying the games they are playing(ie...World of Warcraft, Rift, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and many more great games out there). Killing the genre will not solve community issues; the fact is your types are just as hard to satisfy as the rest of us. You will only perpetuate an unending cycle. Find a game you like and create your own community. That is why WoW is so successful; it has so many people playing it everyone can find their group. Not everything lives up to ones first time; that is just reality. One of my favorite games of all time is Earthworm Jim. Now I have yet to play a game that excited me as much as that one did the first time I played it. I do not on the other hand think all gaming needs to die, so developers once again cater to my specific niche.

lol earthworm jim wow that brings back some memories :D

i never said i want all gaming to die :O

 

 

 

 

I understand that was not what you said; I was simply using it as an example. My main point is I hope you do eventually get the game you are looking for, but there are those of us who do like many of the current MMORPGs and do not want to see them die off.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1267

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

10/08/12 1:21:47 PM#36
It is not going to die.  No one is going to join this illusive boycott of seventeen people who post on these forums.  Give it up.  Your crappy games are here to stay F O R E V E R.
  ForTheCity

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/10/11
Posts: 289

10/08/12 1:27:54 PM#37
Don't think they need to die. A great amount of people still enjoy them including me. There isn't anything really like it for consoles. I can play in lobby based games up to 16 people on consoles, but in MMOs I can play with 100+ people at the same time which makes me feel more connected.
  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

10/08/12 1:39:36 PM#38

I would not say thatthe genre needs to die. But it surelly seems like it needs Reboot.

 

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2391

10/08/12 2:24:24 PM#39
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

The genre is more popular than ever.  

Yeah, which is why so many new MMOs are thriving, right! And why we're calling 2D side scrolling beatumups MMOs now, right?

 

Right??!11?! 

Oh wait, just about every AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years has nearly bankrupted the company that made them? Hmm...

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2391

10/08/12 2:26:11 PM#40
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Your logic is flawed. In the days of UO, Meridian 59, EQ etc companies were investing in something new with the hopes that it would catch on and light the way for a new genre. Which it did, now if the genre died off enough that companies started losing money and closing up it would be a much different story.

It wouldn't be an "ok everyone else is gone, what do you guys want in your MMO?" type of situation. It would be a "Ya, we decided with the decline in popularity and profitability of the MMO genre that it would not be in our best interest to continue developement."

 

And then we'd get people who make MMOs because they love MMOs making them, just like in the early days. Dark Age of Camelot was made with 30 devs and almost no budget. And it stands as one of the greatest MMOs of all time. 

So long as we have people with experience and passion making the games, big publishers aren't needed. The only decent MMO that was made with a big publisher was SWG, and even that had heavy flaws. Maybe GW2. 

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