Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

i've supported Rift since launch, but this latest issue really bugs me for some reason. here's the announcement and link:

"Hail Ascended!

Introducing the ferocious “Armored White War Tiger”. Originally offered exclusively in Korea, this beastly mount can be yours for a limited time! Just visit your account page to check out the offer, you’ll find it right next to the Collector’s Edition and Ashes of History Edition upgrades.

We’re always trying out new ways to add more options to your RIFT experience and this is no exception – have fun!"

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/news-announcements/325459-armored-white-war-tiger-now-available-account-center.html

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so it's 15$ for a mount that's better then the 36 month vet mount. it's a mount for money like blizz has been doing. to me this feels like flat out greed.

Nothing wrong with it, you are not forced to buy it nor does it give ingame advantages.

There is absolutly something wrong with it. Its an ingame item that you already pay a MONTHLY FEE for thats not apart of a full expansion.

WTF are people paying monthly fees for if they are not getting content for it? I just dont get it. Oh the ONE update that adds content every 4-6 months? So you are fine with paying the price of a full fledged AAA title for 2 hours worth of content and then being asked to pay even more ontop of that for cosmetic items?

I really do not understand gamers these days. So many of them are willing to take it right up the ass, and dry at that. Oh well, Companies will keep doing this and people like me, who expect value for our money, will continue to move on untill we have to find a new hobby. Hell even DLC is getting out of hand but at least thats not priced so F'in rediculous as MMO's are.

Exactly!  I don't mind buying stuff in a cash shop in a F2P game.  I'm able to budget myself and don't spend any more (usually much less) than my P2P gaming subscriptions.

This isn't about whether it's inherently right or wrong to use microtransactions.  It's not about gaining advantage or the mount being optional.  This is about the viability of P2P and that payment model.  I pay a subscription to fund their development.  Jeffery Strain has already demonstrated that monthly fees aren't required to keep an MMO running.

So what the hell are we paying for?  I think this is the prelude to charging for their expansion or at "best" providing a mostly ala carte expansion for free while charging for an extra digital content pack with it.

P2P is dead.

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Originally posted by xenogias There is absolutly something wrong with it. Its an ingame item that you already pay a MONTHLY FEE for thats not apart of a full expansion.

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I have to agree. P2P games shouldn't have any cash shop except for gender/appearance/name change items. Unfair.

It is okay in F2P or B2P games.

Rift is a ruined game anyway with the zergish gear-based PvP. Its PvP offers some fun only before you reach the maximum level.

Yep, its easier to put things in the cash shop than keep the current subscribers or get new ones.

I'm not seeing the issue. It's just a cosmetic mount. It isn't power, it isn't gear, it's a mount. You ride on it. Why didn't people get mad that you could update to the "COLLECTORS" edition with 10 dollars? You get an in game mount, and in game items. What about the other 15 dollar one that gives you the spider mount? You are paying money for that too. This is just a mount, no extra stuff, I guess I'm just baffled people care about something you ride on so much. Sure you are paying a monthly fee, but at least they aren't offering power in the shop like some games do with a monthly fee.

Greedy?

newsflash, companies have to make money. It's not about greed. It's about "companies having to make money".

why is it some gamers think these companie are there for their pleasure? These guys need to make a living, need to stay in business.

As long as it's jut pets or mounts or cosmetic stuff then I think we are ok.

If it crosses that then sure, I'll be with you.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Greedy?

newsflash, companies have to make money. It's not about greed. It's about "companies having to make money".

why is it some gamers think these companie are there for their pleasure? These guys need to make a living, need to stay in business.

As long as it's jut pets or mounts or cosmetic stuff then I think we are ok.

If it crosses that then sure, I'll be with you.

trion was already profitable. at E3 they said they were still making money.

As another poster here stated it now is the norm. All it shows is in this regard Trion is not above Blizzard. It's depressing to know that Blizz's RMAH will probably be accepted by the majority of player's and it will also become the norm.  Imagine how player's would of scoffed at the idea a few years ago so dont laugh when I say that one day you will probably have to purchase your raid and pvp gear from an RMAH.

We consumers as a whole are just plain dumb.

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

trion was already profitable. at E3 they said they were still making money.

But how much money are they making?  What are the trends?  Can you trust the company that said they werent closing servers, merely converting them to trial servers for an upcoming promotion (Rift Lite does not use trial servers)?  Trion is petrified of negative PR, so they will spin anyway they can to avoid it.

Originally posted by laserit

As another poster here stated it now is the norm. All it shows is in this regard Trion is not above Blizzard. It's depressing to know that Blizz's RMAH will probably be accepted by the majority of player's and it will also become the norm.  Imagine how player's would of scoffed at the idea a few years ago so dont laugh when I say that one day you will probably have to purchase your raid and pvp gear from an RMAH.

 

We consumers as a whole are just plain dumb.

Blizzard and Trion are two seperate cases and comparing them is moronic.  One makes an enormous amount of cash monthly and has no problem getting enough money to pay for its dev team.

Trion is probably struggling to get 200k subs at this point, with their dev pace they could likely use a boost in funds.

Also, Blizzard is not the first to try RMAH.  Both EQ2 and Vanguard experiented with it and it was scrapped.  Although they didnt force it on people so who knows what wuld have happened if it was on all servers.

The misplaced sense of entitlement amongst young gamers these days is absolutely disgusting.

Is the mount faster than anything you find in-game or as a veteran reward?

If so, then I could understand the outrage. If it's merely a cosmetic 'advantage' then please spare me this "I pay $15 a month - I should be entitled to everything" bs.

So they shouldn't be able ot sell hats and other merchandise because you pay $15 a month for a sub/ Please get off your high horse with this $15 a month BS. I'm sure you spend more in one night at McDonalds!

This misplaced sense that paying $15 a month means you are entitled to anything and everything the company produces is so misplaced that I would be embarrased to publicly state as much. Get over yourself.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Greedy?

newsflash, companies have to make money. It's not about greed. It's about "companies having to make money".

why is it some gamers think these companie are there for their pleasure? These guys need to make a living, need to stay in business.

As long as it's jut pets or mounts or cosmetic stuff then I think we are ok.

If it crosses that then sure, I'll be with you.

C'mon Sovrath think about this for a minute.

They have billed the game with the "service model".  While they've not explicitly promised everything for the subscription they have implied that the sub model buys a premium service including content.

What the hell is my sub paying for?  Not to keep the servers open that's for sure.  Like I said before Jeff Strain already debunked that myth.  I'm paying for the full package in RIFT.  I have no problem paying for more digital content in STO or Aion or another F2P game.  I do have a problem paying a subscription and then more in a cash shop.  What this shows me is that the P2P business model is a failure.  If my sub doesn't buy the full game then the sub isn't worth paying.

And why is it okay to remove fluff from the game and gaming for it but it's not okay for power items?  They aren't any different.  Game content is game content.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

What the hell is my sub paying for?  Not to keep the servers open that's for sure.  Like I said before Jeff Strain already debunked that myth.  

The development team and numerous other expenses the average MMORPG poster is clueless about.  

Originally posted by helthros

The misplaced sense of entitlement amongst young gamers these days is absolutely disgusting.

Is the mount faster than anything you find in-game or as a veteran reward?

If so, then I could understand the outrage. If it's merely a cosmetic 'advantage' then please spare me this "I pay $15 a month - I should be entitled to everything" bs.

So they shouldn't be able ot sell hats and other merchandise because you pay $15 a month for a sub/ Please get off your high horse with this $15 a month BS. I'm sure you spend more in one night at McDonalds!

This misplaced sense that paying $15 a month means you are entitled to anything and everything the company produces is so misplaced that I would be embarrased to publicly state as much. Get over yourself.

considering this sub + cash shop isn't too old, i would question who the young gamer is. there were games before WoW.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

trion was already profitable. at E3 they said they were still making money.

But how much money are they making?  What are the trends?  Can you trust the company that said they werent closing servers, merely converting them to trial servers for an upcoming promotion (Rift Lite does not use trial servers)?  Trion is petrified of negative PR, so they will spin anyway they can to avoid it.

trion is really the only company who's quarterly statements i would be inerested in seeing.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Torvaldr

What the hell is my sub paying for?  Not to keep the servers open that's for sure.  Like I said before Jeff Strain already debunked that myth.  

The development team and numerous other expenses the average MMORPG poster is clueless about.  

If the sub can't pay for it all then the P2P model is a failure.  Might as well just play F2P and skip the sub entirely.  This was the only game worth a sub to me because they offered the full meal deal for the sub price.  Now not so much.  We'll see where it goes.

Oh and what are those expenses?  Care to detail them or were you speaking about cluelessness from a personal perspective.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Torvaldr

What the hell is my sub paying for?  Not to keep the servers open that's for sure.  Like I said before Jeff Strain already debunked that myth.  

The development team and numerous other expenses the average MMORPG poster is clueless about.  

That argument is bullshit, considering how well Guild Wars did, and how well Guild Wars 2 is expected to do.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

I have to say this bugs me too.  I'm paying a subscription for the full meal deal.  If I want to buy extra digitial content I should just stick with F2P.  I've gone with the payment as a service model with them because I missed it so much from Lineage.

I wonder if they're testing the cash shop waters.  They have skirted microtransactions by selling Collector's Edition upgrades, but flat out selling a mount is a microtransaction in my world.

If they're going to start charging for additional digital content or their expansion then the P2P model is really and truly dead.  They will all be P2P + microtransactions.

The funny thing is I never ever planned to play F2P, but publishers are driving me from P2P games with their double and triple dipping.

Last time I checked most tripple A P2P MMOs charge for expansions.

Originally posted by Searias

Originally posted by Torvaldr

I have to say this bugs me too.  I'm paying a subscription for the full meal deal.  If I want to buy extra digitial content I should just stick with F2P.  I've gone with the payment as a service model with them because I missed it so much from Lineage.

I wonder if they're testing the cash shop waters.  They have skirted microtransactions by selling Collector's Edition upgrades, but flat out selling a mount is a microtransaction in my world.

If they're going to start charging for additional digital content or their expansion then the P2P model is really and truly dead.  They will all be P2P + microtransactions.

The funny thing is I never ever planned to play F2P, but publishers are driving me from P2P games with their double and triple dipping.

Last time I checked most tripple A P2P MMOs charge for expansions.

Yes, which is why I don't play sub games anymore.  It wasn't always this way.  Once upon a time your subscription got you the game (LIneage).

I'm just gonna say it, you're a bunch of whinny bitches. If you don't like the direction that the genre is heading then quit. It seems pretty simple to anyone with a half a brain.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Sovrath

Greedy?

newsflash, companies have to make money. It's not about greed. It's about "companies having to make money".

why is it some gamers think these companie are there for their pleasure? These guys need to make a living, need to stay in business.

As long as it's jut pets or mounts or cosmetic stuff then I think we are ok.

If it crosses that then sure, I'll be with you.

C'mon Sovrath think about this for a minute.

They have billed the game with the "service model".  While they've not explicitly promised everything for the subscription they have implied that the sub model buys a premium service including content.

What the hell is my sub paying for?  Not to keep the servers open that's for sure.  Like I said before Jeff Strain already debunked that myth.  I'm paying for the full package in RIFT.  I have no problem paying for more digital content in STO or Aion or another F2P game.  I do have a problem paying a subscription and then more in a cash shop.  What this shows me is that the P2P business model is a failure.  If my sub doesn't buy the full game then the sub isn't worth paying.

And why is it okay to remove fluff from the game and gaming for it but it's not okay for power items?  They aren't any different.  Game content is game content.

I don't agree with your assessment.

There is absolutely no evidence that this fluff would be in the game if it weren't for the dlc.

I've played a lot of games at this point and many sub games and usually the sub price gets you pretty standard stuff (and not enough I might add). I've never played a sub game that offered a lot of fluff items in the expansion pack.

Once these stores crop up you tend to get more of that stuff.

I do recall some masks in Lineage 2 but you had to buy their "special edition" to get them which was, for all intent and purposes just extra dlc.

edit: I also don't agree with you that game content is "game content".  Essentially we don't agree.

Your sub is paying for? Don't know. gm's? making sure the company is flush while they work on content?

That's up to players to decide whether it's worth it or not.

What's your cable bill pay for? Theres' rarely anything good and the premium stuff is an extra bit of money.

And since I dont' think that's worth it I dont' have cable. I spoke with my wallet. If people don't like this then they should speak with their wallet and move on.