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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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2078 posts found
  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3426

11/19/11 8:41:26 PM#1281
Originally posted by Ecoces

I play solo because i don't want to play with 90% of the players that infest the MMO genre. That doesn't mean i don't group I love to group and I am always in a group, sorry you all need a developer to force people to play with you.

That's essentially the problem.  Everyone I see is rushing to cap, I have zero interest whatsoever in doing that.  Therefore, my playstyle is diametrically opposed to most people and as such, I have no interest in playing with most people.  Add to the fact that a huge number of people playing MMOs are horribly immature, rude, obnoxious and entitlement-happy, I want to stay as far away from these self-important losers as I can.

Give me a game with intelligent, mature, rational people and I'll group with them.  Not holding my breath that it will happen.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  narongkorn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/11
Posts: 5

11/21/11 5:48:48 AM#1282

Finally a new and original topic.

  zeustruth0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4

12/14/11 4:35:15 AM#1283
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by toddze

My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.


 

Playing solo in a mulitplayer game is kinda dumb, but thankfully we are talking MMORPG's here and not just multiplayer games.

MMORPG have room for both and many type of playstyle's, one might enjoy grouping allot, one might enjoy solo allot, thankfully MMORPG can give us this.

What many seem not able to understand is that solo players  "can" be very social, they don't need a group to be social there are so many activities that can be done with other people without grouping with them, there "can" be crafting where people help each other out either with resources, or simple things like sharing good harvest locations, what about something as simple as just helping other people in chat/ help channel, again very social.

Groupers, the same thing they can be very helpfull with helping other complete some missions/quest/dungeon, they might have certain knowledge about instances/caves/dungeons/boss encounters that can help defeating it.

Personaly I think to many people especially on forums like this have a very narrowminded view on both solo player and groupers.

Over the years I became more and more a solo player, reason is that about 80% of my time I wanted to group it made my experiance not a nice one, people didn't talk in groups and if they did it was often Hi and Bye when they completed their quests, over the years it's always a handfull of people who actually wanted to group for social/exploring/discovering reasons, these day's the majority I encounter is more like "I need a grou cause I need to complete something" or mainly because of the benifiths, the adventure part has lost it's way's with the majority of groups I personaly encountered (keep in mind only talking about my own experiance, so someone else his or her experiance might be different.

While I might have become a more solo player I am still very social, in crafting, in helping with all sorts of things and perhaps this might sound arrogant but many people I help(ed) ingame often ask if they can add me to their friends list because of the great help I gave them, in FE a few even said they should pay me for the help I give to many people.

Overall I wish people could let people play MMORPG they way they want. Unless other people want to pay MY sub-fee I see no reason why others should dictate how I should play.

Another things I don't mind if I don't get that Epic loot because I choose to solo, I don't need the game to catter to only me cause to me there is room for all sorts of gameplay aslong people have fun playing games in this genre. Al I want is to have freedom, meaning I don't want a MMORPG to force me in any way, not force me to solo and not force me to group.

 

I like what you said, i have read all of you're post's and i agree with you 100% and makes sense as well, i like to be able to do BOTH solo and party if i need to and depends which class one is like mage, healer so on so forth i myself a mage past 14 years =D i played WoW i didnt like it played for 6-7 months i tried to like it but it wasnt my thing and no it wasnt the fee i have no prob with that at all.

i can name afew FUN mmo's to play thats rohan, dekaron, cabal online, flyff and afew more, i find myself solo'ing more than i do partyin g, why? because it's MY choice and my style..if i wanna party i'll do so, no player nor a jack of all trades master of none gonna tell me what to do nor how i play thats for darn sure. most do not get this, its about F-U-N and if one thinks ALL solors will screwq up the party he or SHE got another thing coming, mostly (and its true) mostly you're party leader is at fault io been in so many partys so i know what i am talking about, this ONE goes out to the guy or girl whos saying all solo'ers are screw ups in a party, looks like to me he or she knows nothing here...blaming all solo'ers has no common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  zeustruth0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4

12/14/11 4:42:06 AM#1284
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Ecoces

I play solo because i don't want to play with 90% of the players that infest the MMO genre. That doesn't mean i don't group I love to group and I am always in a group, sorry you all need a developer to force people to play with you.

That's essentially the problem.  Everyone I see is rushing to cap, I have zero interest whatsoever in doing that.  Therefore, my playstyle is diametrically opposed to most people and as such, I have no interest in playing with most people.  Add to the fact that a huge number of people playing MMOs are horribly immature, rude, obnoxious and entitlement-happy, I want to stay as far away from these self-important losers as I can.

Give me a game with intelligent, mature, rational people and I'll group with them.  Not holding my breath that it will happen.

i notice that to almost in every game i played, always rushing to the cap is NIOT how ones play if i wanna play i play at my pace, i wanna see everything in the game itself, the trees, the ground, all that i wanna take in and enjoy while i kicking butt, but sadly there are like you just said, rude, nasty down right disrespecting fools out there making their biz to stick their nose where it does not need to be.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1172

12/14/11 3:52:22 PM#1285

The Path of MMO Evolution:

MMO with forced grouping ---> Players want to be able to solo occasionally

MMO with occasional grouping and end game raiding ---> Players want to be able to solo more

MMO with rare grouping and end game raiding ----> Players want to solo for end game raid gear

MMO with rare grouping and light (8 player) raids ---> Players want to be able to solo the raids

MMO with soloable group content and soloable raids ---> Players complain of kill stealing breaking their ability to solo

MMO with a central gameworld with all instanced content ---> Players complain of having to travel through the gameworld

 

Players complain of having to pay $20 a month for a single player game.

  ForTheCity

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/10/11
Posts: 289

12/19/11 6:47:58 PM#1286

I really do believe the whole point of an MMO is to play with other people. In Single player games you aren't allowed to play with your friends, and thats why many people choose MMOs. Its still a form of social interaction, even tho you arent' actually seeing the person. 

  Vigiliance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 205

12/26/11 6:01:48 PM#1287
Originally posted by ForTheCity

I really do believe the whole point of an MMO is to play with other people. In Single player games you aren't allowed to play with your friends, and thats why many people choose MMOs. Its still a form of social interaction, even tho you arent' actually seeing the person. 

I agree its just nice to know if you want to log on one day and don't feel like needing a group you can ALWAYS have some meaningful way to progress your character.

Now its up to the developers to balance the gains from solo gameplay and group gameplay, which imo Group gameplay should have a strong lead on, however for those who want to play solo but interact in a living world with other people should have an option or two. 

 

Getting people to agree on this would be extemely difficult if not lets say impossible but I think with some clever ideas we can find some sort of balance.

The problem starts when people who play solo claim that they should of have just as influential, strong whatever rewards as  groups do.

Naturally the group players question the idea of having a group at all if they dont have any advantage, why work harder for the same gain?

In my humble opinon I believe that setting up a group towards a common goal is more difficult then solo play and thus should be rewarded more greatly. However content should be progressed for both playstyles equally, that way you atleast have something meaningful to do, if you choose not to group.

Alts are the not the answer, they are a band-aid, people love having the "main" and want to keep playing THAT character and seeing it grow as the time investment and attachment grow with it.

  Beartosser

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/08
Posts: 89

12/27/11 4:01:02 PM#1288

While I agree that not everyone should gain the same rewards, I disagree that their chosen playstyle should be the deciding factor for obtaining said rewards. Whether a player chooses PvP, group PvE, or solo PvE, they should be able to reach the highest level of effectiveness at their given playstyle. If rewards given for group PvE are more effective at solo PvE or PvP, the devs have effectively invalidated those playstyles.

  Ozivois

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 599

12/27/11 4:29:16 PM#1289

MMO games need to continue to evolve to make better and better use of a large, persistently online population.  RIFT has actually done a damn good job to offer content that promotes the gathering of unlimited amounts of players to work together on the same goal: zone events.  This is only the beginning. 

 

So any MMO discussion about group play vs solo play should arguably be replaced by Solo play vs. Party play vs. Raid Play vs. Mass play.   Each of the four ways to play should offer different reward trees to encourage a variety of playstyle.  Just like leveling up pvp levels gets you better armor for pvping, solo activity should give you a chance at rare drops of gear that make it easier to solo, dungeon loot tables should give gear that is specifically role enhancing, raid loot should be gear that is only better for raid boss progression, and Mass event loot should provide tokens that could be used towards the purchase of any of the gear types. 

 

The great part is if this was properly implemented in a game your best raid geared players should have trouble soloing mobs in their raid gear.  It would seem fair because if they never ground any solo content  that would mean their character  never learned how to fight alone.

 

 

  Beartosser

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/08
Posts: 89

1/14/12 1:56:03 PM#1290

I just tried out SWTOR for two weeks, then unsubbed. Instead of the step ahead from WoW in soloability that was hinted at, this game is a complete regression. At very low levels you run out of quests that aren't heroic, leaving the choice of either being forced into groups, or grinding low level mobs for tiny amounts of XP at a time.

Obviously the devs have no respect for solo players, nor do they even have a basic understanding of what they want.

Waiting for GW2 now.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1172

1/14/12 6:19:06 PM#1291
Originally posted by Beartosser

I just tried out SWTOR for two weeks, then unsubbed. Instead of the step ahead from WoW in soloability that was hinted at, this game is a complete regression. At very low levels you run out of quests that aren't heroic, leaving the choice of either being forced into groups, or grinding low level mobs for tiny amounts of XP at a time.

Obviously the devs have no respect for solo players, nor do they even have a basic understanding of what they want.

Waiting for GW2 now.

You're kidding, right? Were we even playing the same game? It was the reverse of what you said, 90% of it was solo and you didn't even have to do the other 10% to progress. With the addition of companions and static mobs which came in 3's, there really was no difficulty to any part of that game that actually required you to group. If you found it hard to solo then.. seriously.. learn to play, as a child could solo its way through that game.

  mentalneko

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 18

1/17/12 4:25:15 PM#1292
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by Beartosser

I just tried out SWTOR for two weeks, then unsubbed. Instead of the step ahead from WoW in soloability that was hinted at, this game is a complete regression. At very low levels you run out of quests that aren't heroic, leaving the choice of either being forced into groups, or grinding low level mobs for tiny amounts of XP at a time.

Obviously the devs have no respect for solo players, nor do they even have a basic understanding of what they want.

Waiting for GW2 now.

You're kidding, right? Were we even playing the same game? It was the reverse of what you said, 90% of it was solo and you didn't even have to do the other 10% to progress. With the addition of companions and static mobs which came in 3's, there really was no difficulty to any part of that game that actually required you to group. If you found it hard to solo then.. seriously.. learn to play, as a child could solo its way through that game.

With the addition of your companion the game was made a bit too soloable though. I've actually been a week without finding a group for anything that ISN'T the first instance 'cause everyone would much rather do their soloing than instance. It's a cool game, but honestly it shouldn't be an MMO. It feels too much like a single player game even to me, and I go out of my way to try to group up in any game. Plus I always found myself feeling that the side quests were not at all interesting and that I'd much rather play through my bounty hunter quest line, I'd much rather just play a single player game with half the game time if just to experience it on it's own.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

2/04/12 10:33:01 AM#1293

I'll never understand why players are so crazy about soloing an MMO, many of them want to solo the entire game. It makes no sense to me, and I have heard all of the arguements over the years.

I've come to one conclusion, those players are SELFISH!!

None of thier arguements make any sense, they call them MMO's for a reason, otherwise they would be MSO's. These selfish players love to ruin games for personal reasons, I have seen them on forums complaining so much that devs cave in, only to have the same players leave anyway, becaues the game was too hard, and they couldnt get finish the whole game without help.

If you try to direct them to some awsome single player games out there, and there are LOTS of good ones, they scream and cry, not caring at all about other players.

Soloers are the scourge of MMO's and I cant stand them. Its no coincidence that most of these soloers are the same hardcore pvp crowd looking for ffa full loot, the rest of them are loners who like to grind pve mobs all by themselves... all day long.

I wish they would go away!!!

  dimasok

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/12
Posts: 192

2/05/12 8:54:16 PM#1294

I have to say that I was always going solo everywhere and always hated the online component of nearly every game (I only had fun at LAN parties many years ago with Quake 3 and UT) but TOR was the first MMORPG game where I somewhat enjoyed the company of other players incidentally as initially I was merely asking for their help in defeating my instance missions which I was unable to do myself.

And even though I am unsubbed from the game right now, I still have to thank it for bringing me in this late in the game, and I think this may be its biggest feat.

  dimasok

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/12
Posts: 192

2/05/12 8:59:50 PM#1295
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by Beartosser

I just tried out SWTOR for two weeks, then unsubbed. Instead of the step ahead from WoW in soloability that was hinted at, this game is a complete regression. At very low levels you run out of quests that aren't heroic, leaving the choice of either being forced into groups, or grinding low level mobs for tiny amounts of XP at a time.

Obviously the devs have no respect for solo players, nor do they even have a basic understanding of what they want.

Waiting for GW2 now.

You're kidding, right? Were we even playing the same game? It was the reverse of what you said, 90% of it was solo and you didn't even have to do the other 10% to progress. With the addition of companions and static mobs which came in 3's, there really was no difficulty to any part of that game that actually required you to group. If you found it hard to solo then.. seriously.. learn to play, as a child could solo its way through that game.

Child's play eh? I had a lvl44 sith assassin and nearly 50% of that levelling came from me partying up with someone else to help me since I couldnt finish the missions myself no matter how good I was. Maybe I made wrong decisions from the outset with my character or did not outfit him with the right gear, but that's the way I managed to lvl him up. Of course I was feeling a bit guilty since in my instance other players were only getting points from me finishing my bonus missions and not the main missions themselves and thats why I think SWTOR is more SOLO than MP after all because there is not ENOUGH motivation for others to help you on your SP journey.

It encourages you to join other players and yet it doens't provide them enough incentive to do so - quite a contradiction if I ever saw any....

  User Deleted
2/05/12 9:41:15 PM#1296
Originally posted by Adalwulff

I'll never understand why players are so crazy about soloing an MMO, many of them want to solo the entire game. It makes no sense to me, and I have heard all of the arguements over the years.

I've come to one conclusion, those players are SELFISH!!

None of thier arguements make any sense, they call them MMO's for a reason, otherwise they would be MSO's. These selfish players love to ruin games for personal reasons, I have seen them on forums complaining so much that devs cave in, only to have the same players leave anyway, becaues the game was too hard, and they couldnt get finish the whole game without help.

If you try to direct them to some awsome single player games out there, and there are LOTS of good ones, they scream and cry, not caring at all about other players.

Soloers are the scourge of MMO's and I cant stand them. Its no coincidence that most of these soloers are the same hardcore pvp crowd looking for ffa full loot, the rest of them are loners who like to grind pve mobs all by themselves... all day long.

I wish they would go away!!!

 

That's some serious logic there.

 

Earth has over 4 billion people living on it.   That's pretty massive don't you think?   Do you think people do things on their own in real life?   Or do you think they form raids to use the bathroom?   One to hold the toilet paper... one to turn on the fan.. another support class to turn on the light... at least two to hold the newspaper and turn the pages...

 

Why exactly do you think MMO means anything about grouping?

 

I solo time to time.   I've never wanted to be able to solo everything.   I mean heck just because dragon slayers in folk lore pretty much were always solo.. and one of them was even a child... I don't think I should be able to solo dragons in a fantasy game where I am supposedly more heroic than in real life.   Yet I don't really want to be in a group of 6 to 8 people... just to kill oh I dunno... rats or something else that is obviously dangerous... its not like a rabbit with giant fangs.. I could see grouping for that or at least a hand grenade of the holy type.

 

Even without my crystal ball I know I wouldn't group with you... just to be clear.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1172

2/06/12 1:39:57 AM#1297
Originally posted by Antarious

 

That's some serious logic there.

 

Earth has over 4 billion people living on it.   That's pretty massive don't you think?   Do you think people do things on their own in real life?   Or do you think they form raids to use the bathroom?   One to hold the toilet paper... one to turn on the fan.. another support class to turn on the light... at least two to hold the newspaper and turn the pages...

 

Why exactly do you think MMO means anything about grouping?

 

I solo time to time.   I've never wanted to be able to solo everything.   I mean heck just because dragon slayers in folk lore pretty much were always solo.. and one of them was even a child... I don't think I should be able to solo dragons in a fantasy game where I am supposedly more heroic than in real life.   Yet I don't really want to be in a group of 6 to 8 people... just to kill oh I dunno... rats or something else that is obviously dangerous... its not like a rabbit with giant fangs.. I could see grouping for that or at least a hand grenade of the holy type.

 

Even without my crystal ball I know I wouldn't group with you... just to be clear.

Some seriously flawed reasoning there. Raids to use the bathroom? No, people do that on their own. We're talking about a game designed where the player can't do things on their own. For a better example from real life, people can't design and build a skyscraper on their own, or fight an army alone..

The whole "I'm a hero." thing in modern MMO's is entirely that, a creation of modern MMO's. If you were the hero there wouldn't be 1 million other heroes surrounding you, doing the exact same things that you do. That doesn't make you a hero, that makes you normal.

MMO's were born out of AD&D which had normal characters going through adventures and becoming stronger as they went. And they were always in a group. Why? Because without support that Dragon is simply going to bite your head off. Or what about trapped dungeons? One needs to stand in a magic circle while another needs to get through the door it opens. How do they do that alone?

Modern MMO's have moved so far away from what MMO's should be that they're barely distinguishable from single player games. Take a look at TOR, for example.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3426

2/08/12 11:34:44 AM#1298
Originally posted by UsualSuspect

Some seriously flawed reasoning there. Raids to use the bathroom? No, people do that on their own. We're talking about a game designed where the player can't do things on their own. For a better example from real life, people can't design and build a skyscraper on their own, or fight an army alone..

The whole "I'm a hero." thing in modern MMO's is entirely that, a creation of modern MMO's. If you were the hero there wouldn't be 1 million other heroes surrounding you, doing the exact same things that you do. That doesn't make you a hero, that makes you normal.

MMO's were born out of AD&D which had normal characters going through adventures and becoming stronger as they went. And they were always in a group. Why? Because without support that Dragon is simply going to bite your head off. Or what about trapped dungeons? One needs to stand in a magic circle while another needs to get through the door it opens. How do they do that alone?

Modern MMO's have moved so far away from what MMO's should be that they're barely distinguishable from single player games. Take a look at TOR, for example.

You are aware that AD&D started publishing solo modules pretty early on to cater to people who didn't want to play with others and still wanted to play AD&D, right?  That was one of the strengths of PnP RPGs, you could play the way you wanted to play, you were not forced to get a certain number of people together to make it work.

Maybe people wouldn't want to play solo so much if so much of the MMO-playing public weren't immature asshats.  I want nothing to do with the majority of idiots in most game worlds, people who can't spell, act like 2-year olds, have no clue about common decency and are ultimately in it to screw everyone else so they can get more loot.  And you want me to play with these asshats?

Forget it.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1172

2/08/12 12:26:51 PM#1299
Originally posted by Cephus404

You are aware that AD&D started publishing solo modules pretty early on to cater to people who didn't want to play with others and still wanted to play AD&D, right?  That was one of the strengths of PnP RPGs, you could play the way you wanted to play, you were not forced to get a certain number of people together to make it work.

Maybe people wouldn't want to play solo so much if so much of the MMO-playing public weren't immature asshats.  I want nothing to do with the majority of idiots in most game worlds, people who can't spell, act like 2-year olds, have no clue about common decency and are ultimately in it to screw everyone else so they can get more loot.  And you want me to play with these asshats?

Forget it.

Yeah, I'm aware of the solo modules, but the main outpouring of AD&D modules have been made for groups of players to work through. Much like MMO's, they can be fun playing alone, but ultimately the best content comes from joining up with other people for adventures.

And sure there are immature asshats in MMO's, but on the flip side there are also some really cool people who are great to hang out with. To turn away from grouping because of a few bad experiences with groups is like saying you're never going to date again because the last girl broke your heart. People are different, while one might be a pain another might be awesome, while one girl might have broke your heart, another might be with you for life.

It's the way of the world. If we were all the same then the world would be a pretty boring place. Just remember the asshats and hang out with the nice people. It's common sense, really.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3426

2/08/12 4:46:05 PM#1300
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by Cephus404

You are aware that AD&D started publishing solo modules pretty early on to cater to people who didn't want to play with others and still wanted to play AD&D, right?  That was one of the strengths of PnP RPGs, you could play the way you wanted to play, you were not forced to get a certain number of people together to make it work.

Maybe people wouldn't want to play solo so much if so much of the MMO-playing public weren't immature asshats.  I want nothing to do with the majority of idiots in most game worlds, people who can't spell, act like 2-year olds, have no clue about common decency and are ultimately in it to screw everyone else so they can get more loot.  And you want me to play with these asshats?

Forget it.

Yeah, I'm aware of the solo modules, but the main outpouring of AD&D modules have been made for groups of players to work through. Much like MMO's, they can be fun playing alone, but ultimately the best content comes from joining up with other people for adventures.

And sure there are immature asshats in MMO's, but on the flip side there are also some really cool people who are great to hang out with. To turn away from grouping because of a few bad experiences with groups is like saying you're never going to date again because the last girl broke your heart. People are different, while one might be a pain another might be awesome, while one girl might have broke your heart, another might be with you for life.

It's the way of the world. If we were all the same then the world would be a pretty boring place. Just remember the asshats and hang out with the nice people. It's common sense, really.

You're making a subjective call that the "best content" comes from grouping.  I entirely disagree.  I think that being self-sufficient and not having to rely on others to get through problems is far superior, especially if, as is far too often the case, there simply are not enough people playing MMOs that share my outlook.  Everyone is too busy being a gear-whore, rushing to max level.  I couldn't care less if it took me 5 years to max out my character.  I've done that before.  I have zero interest in endgame content, I retire every single character instantly when I hit max level.

The problem with comparing PnP and MMO players is they are entirely different experiences.  Most PnP groups were hand picked.  They met on a regular schedule.  There was very little pick-up gaming going on, outside of conventions and the like.  You knew who you were playing with, you had a long relationship and you knew that everyone thought along similar lines and had similar goals.  I had a PnP group that played together for more than 15 years.  We never had to worry about some retard ninja looting or killing the entire party out of stupidity.  That's not usually the case in MMOs, where the most common group is a PUG, where people come together to do something, then go their separate ways.   Sure, you might occasionally find someone worthwhile, but if you have to dig through hundreds of shitbags to get there, is it really worth it?

I reserve the real world for hanging out with nice people.  Online, where mature, intelligent, rational people who aren't in a rush to get to end game are a real rarity, forget it.  It's just a frustration I choose not to engage in.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

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