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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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2118 posts found
  MadFrenchie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 380

5/02/14 12:23:44 PM#2081
Originally posted by KJ30
Originally posted by kizechs

Gaming Then and Now....

i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

 

I agree . Unfortunately the mmo community is a subgroup of the real world with the same characteristics. Full of competitive, greedy no brainers who find a twisted pleasure in insulting people and behave like assholes. However i am optimistic...

"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others, it is the only means"

While I agree some players are generally terrible, I think the Smite reference is a little inaccurate due to the random way in which players are thrown into groups.  The system supports such awful social situations.  However, due to the nature of MOBAs, it's forgivable in Smite.  In an MMO, there is no real excuse for such queues.

 

MMOs are intended to be deep, lengthy, immersive experiences.  I don't mean to down the casual player, but where do you think "short," "easy," or "quick" fits into such a description?  How immersed can you get into a book by reading 4 pages of the 800 or so included in the novel?  How deeply immersive is a show when you watch 20 minutes of an hour-long episode  of a 12-episode season in one sitting?  How attached can you become to the world, its settings and characters, and their struggles in such a small window?

 

My point being (and much hatred will probably be generated by this): MMOs aren't compatible with casual play.  By the very nature of what it originally meant to be an MMO, it took a larger time investment than singleplayer RPGs.  Time to develop acquaintances, friends, guilds.  Time to collect skills, spells, abilities, and equipment enough to elevate your character to the next adventure.  Time to pull together a band of warriors you knew were adept enough to tackle that dungeon.  Ones that, either by your own experiences or the experiences of someone whose opinion you trusted, weren't total pricks.

 

Some may state that it's a hobby; they don't want to have to invest such time into a hobby.  But such a time investment is no different than another hobby.  Do you like to play sports?  Well, you can toss a ball up into the air by yourself and catch it many times in less than 5 minutes.  It's not nearly as much fun as playing the actual game, but it is playing.  You can then add a friend and toss the ball to one another.  More fun than by yourself, but you have to coordinate when you and your friend have free time, and so it takes a little more time and planning.  Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you can play actual full-fledged pickup games with a large group of people, maybe even in an organized tournament.  However, surprise surprise: that takes a significantly larger time investment and planning than does tossing the ball with your friend.  It should be no different in MMOs.

  Mithrail

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/14
Posts: 21

5/03/14 10:06:14 PM#2082
Originally posted by MadFrenchie
Originally posted by KJ30
Originally posted by kizechs

Gaming Then and Now....

i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

 

I agree . Unfortunately the mmo community is a subgroup of the real world with the same characteristics. Full of competitive, greedy no brainers who find a twisted pleasure in insulting people and behave like assholes. However i am optimistic...

"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others, it is the only means"

While I agree some players are generally terrible, I think the Smite reference is a little inaccurate due to the random way in which players are thrown into groups.  The system supports such awful social situations.  However, due to the nature of MOBAs, it's forgivable in Smite.  In an MMO, there is no real excuse for such queues.

 

MMOs are intended to be deep, lengthy, immersive experiences.  I don't mean to down the casual player, but where do you think "short," "easy," or "quick" fits into such a description?  How immersed can you get into a book by reading 4 pages of the 800 or so included in the novel?  How deeply immersive is a show when you watch 20 minutes of an hour-long episode  of a 12-episode season in one sitting?  How attached can you become to the world, its settings and characters, and their struggles in such a small window?

 

My point being (and much hatred will probably be generated by this): MMOs aren't compatible with casual play.  By the very nature of what it originally meant to be an MMO, it took a larger time investment than singleplayer RPGs.  Time to develop acquaintances, friends, guilds.  Time to collect skills, spells, abilities, and equipment enough to elevate your character to the next adventure.  Time to pull together a band of warriors you knew were adept enough to tackle that dungeon.  Ones that, either by your own experiences or the experiences of someone whose opinion you trusted, weren't total pricks.

 

Some may state that it's a hobby; they don't want to have to invest such time into a hobby.  But such a time investment is no different than another hobby.  Do you like to play sports?  Well, you can toss a ball up into the air by yourself and catch it many times in less than 5 minutes.  It's not nearly as much fun as playing the actual game, but it is playing.  You can then add a friend and toss the ball to one another.  More fun than by yourself, but you have to coordinate when you and your friend have free time, and so it takes a little more time and planning.  Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you can play actual full-fledged pickup games with a large group of people, maybe even in an organized tournament.  However, surprise surprise: that takes a significantly larger time investment and planning than does tossing the ball with your friend.  It should be no different in MMOs.

^ This reflects my opinion perfectly. I was so glad to read your comment, I was reading comments going a bit angry inside.

Not every MMO should be casual, not every MMO needs to be for EVERYONE. There can be MMOs for people who want to solo everything, just as there should be such for people who want something more.

I've read through the first 30 pages only, and I guess the problem is that MMO developers want to make everyone and anyone happy. That's not gonna happen.... ever. So they should instead choose a target market - just like normal companies do. And then give those players a truly epic experience, give them a reason to throw money at you, instead of making everyones experience ... meh, and having everyone desert the game a couple of months after its release.

  aattss

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/12
Posts: 40

5/14/14 9:56:00 PM#2083
My own opinion is that it should be possible for someone to solo as much as the person wants and then interact with others whenever the person wants. Ideally speaking.
  Gramley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 7

5/21/14 11:19:30 AM#2084

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

5/22/14 3:35:23 PM#2085
Originally posted by Gramley

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  MadFrenchie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 380

5/22/14 4:24:24 PM#2086
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by Gramley

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

 

But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher. I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.
  UsualSuspect

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1231

5/22/14 4:49:54 PM#2087

I always find the solo vs group thing quite silly really. If it wasn't for the WoWification of MMO's we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It's really simple - we play online games so we can play with or against other people. That's the whole point of making an online game, bringing multiple people together into a game world to shoot each other in the face or combine abilities to do amazing things. The trinity for example - DPS does loads of damage, Tank takes the danger away from the DPS and Healer, and the Healer keeps the Tank up. It's the combination of different roles coming together to face things that one person alone couldn't deal with.

So this discussion about preferring to solo and everything should be available solo, to me, is just ridiculous. If you want to play alone then why are you jumping into an online game? Of course, because the current batch of MMO's allows it. So did the earlier MMO's in a lesser, more restricted way, but back then teamwork was the name of the game, as it should be with an online game.

  Gramley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 7

5/23/14 11:14:47 AM#2088
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by Gramley

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

Over 60% ? where did you pull that figure from? the latest copy of MMO financial times? or as with other figures bandied about, did you just pluck it out of thin air?

I'm not saying that soloing shouldn't be feasible, I'm saying that grouping should always reward (both exp & loot) better than soloing. If you want to log in and play for an hour due to time restraints but feel that you can't group in that time, then fine, solo away but don't expect to level up as quickly as the person who's able to grind it out for 4 hours at a time in a group.

If you want an analogy from that blight on MMOs: WoW has 3 tiers of basic rewards (green, blue and purple), if you solo all the time, expect only green rewards, if you group expect blue rewards, if you raid expect purple rewards.

 

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

5/23/14 11:20:27 AM#2089
Originally posted by MadFrenchie
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by Gramley

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

 

But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher. I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.

The reward should even out to be the same, but you're right, that should take into account time spent to gather a group and coordinate, so xp should probably be slightly faster once you get started, but not so fast that you leave solo players in the dust.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  MadFrenchie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 380

5/23/14 1:53:54 PM#2090
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by MadFrenchie
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by Gramley

In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

 

But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher. I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.

The reward should even out to be the same, but you're right, that should take into account time spent to gather a group and coordinate, so xp should probably be slightly faster once you get started, but not so fast that you leave solo players in the dust.

Agreed.  To me, it should simply be a difference in potential.  A really good group can level you substantially faster than solo play, but a bad one can slow you down past the rate at which you would progress solo.  Risk vs. reward again.  That's a delicate balance, and I haven't seen an MMO pull it off in a while.  The next time it does, I'll have found a home for my MMO itch again.

  gideonvaldes

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/07/14
Posts: 53

5/26/14 3:02:30 AM#2091
Well when it comes on playing MMO, I prefer soloing at the first part, however, as level goes up, monsters also goes harder than the first one forcing me to switch into gruop play (maybe common for MMO's). Most especially when it comes to boss hunts and guild wards (whatsoever they called it in other games). 
  yahaira

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/14
Posts: 1

5/26/14 11:37:19 PM#2092
Originally posted by Addieu

Sometimes I like to play solo - because sadly in a lot of MMO's its the most rewarding profile.

But I think MMORPG's should be 90% team play. That;s what for those games are - to be able to interact and play with other people. When playing all alone why not just play a PC solo game.

There's a time for everything. People play single player games for a reason, right?

  nerovergil

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 10

6/14/14 11:38:56 AM#2093

My mmo.

 

type of leveling option

 

1. pve  

2. pvp

3. wvw

4. crafting/work

 

gameplay example

 

1.Create character

 

2. Arrive at Prontera. Lv 1

 

3. Get a job at town. example cake and pizza shop

 

4. Work. get lv 2. get paid 15 silver. Work is daily activities that can be done once that give u level exp and money. U get paid better as your work rank increase.

 

When you gain your work level, you can get paid up to 10+ gold a day!

 

When u get to max work level, you can get licend to start your own business 

 

If player want to get the best equipment in WvW part of this game, playing working part of the game is crucial because easy cash was there.

 

5. Rent a house for a house buff. Small house rent 10 silver a day. You can sleep and bath there. own a house, sleep, bath, eat,drink give a small buff for duration of time.(12 hours++) 

 

Player still can, eat, bath and sleep at inn that cost much lower. like 5 silver. But player wont have house buff and garden.

 

You have a small garden at your house so u can farm and start a trading run later. But before u can farm, u need money to start the trading run business.

 

6. Go to pve low level map with all the buff. Kill lv 2 monster. get lv 3. Kill lv 3 monster. get lv 4

 

Becareful in pve, there might be high level enemy player assassin that finding player for gold. Killing enemy player in their pve map will grant 1gold per head to the assassin.

 

More details about pve.

 

Every week, 2 server world will be paired together. They can walk to each other pve map. Like open world pvp.

 

Every server has low level map, medium level map, high level map, shared world boss map.

 

The distance is like this:

 

Server A citadel > low level map A > Medium level A > High level A > Shared boss map A and B < High level B < Medium B < low B map < Server B citadel

 

This include naval battle.

 

So the world is connected. Every week server will be paired with other server depends on the server performance.

 

 

7. Boring with pve? Que for 10vs10 pvp tournament!you gain 50% experience and 50 silver each win! if u lose u still get 25% experience and 25 silver!

 

All player is at max level and wear same equipment level in a fair pvp arena fight.

 

Player can que for proper 30 minutes pvp game or just join hotjoin that give less money and less exp.

 

Pve small buff (like home,eat,drink,etc) wont carry for pvp. This place is total fair balance fight. Esport play

 

8. Start saving to 5 gold and you can start your 1st trading run! Example trading item = aloha Chicken Pizza.

 

Player can buy some of the ingrediants at merchant npc and farm the other ingrediants. You can farm the pineapples at your garden. Pineapples takes 1 day to complete ripe.

 

crafting items give player exp and work rank.

 

You can, buy the ingreadiants from other players.

 

Trading run is bringing the items to the enemy territory and sell it with higher price.

 

There is pve trading and wvw trading.

 

5gold bunch of pizza can be sold 10gold in enemy territory.

 

Trading run is dangerous and the items might fall into enemy and player get killed by pirate and assassin.

 

trading run can be at sea and land.

 

Trading run in wvw give more gold.

 

9. Still an uplevel and want to try Wvw? Yes u can! join commander and if u lucky u can get free exp from capturing enemy towers, camp, keeps.

 

1 server can only has 100 players per map (2 map, the 2nd is naval battle, 200 player in 1 server) at the time. If more player, they will que the map.

 

10. After all the hardwork, dedication, blood, sweat and tears (No blueprint, best uplevel NA).You finally reach max level 99! Now what?

 

start working on your exotic equipment! Get to full exotic. Do wvw daily! kill world boss! gain gold!

 

11. So i get all exotic now what? 

 

So now u are stronger than ever. Fight for your server! Get more gold by getting ur server best place every week and getting a lot of gold reward.

 

12. Start leading your guild to the top! Try guild vs guild matchmaking! get lots of gold for placing the top!!

 

13. Now i have all the gold! what now!!!

 

Start crafting your own ascended equipment!! ascended later can be upgraded to legendary equipment! get more gold! kill enemy players! conquer territories!

 

Build mansion houses! get more land for farming! gain gold!! Bigger house give bigger buff!

 

14) They will be series of pvp tournament, gvg tournament, wvw tournament, 1v1 tournament from time to time. The champion will rewarded with legendary weapon.

 

15) Im too lazy with all this grinding, im a casual player.

 

Then pvp is for you! play a 30 min 10vs10 game. Where everyone is max level and same equipment level. only skills and teamwork matters!

 

Im still thinking to make this pvp mode more like dota 2, but with absent of level. You will have troops, and capture towers and destroy enemy base.

 

The reason is, adding level will imbalance the game and give no space for catching up as the winning player will become more powerful each time they win. This will make the game end earlier.

 

16) Lets take a look at the game classes.

 

1. Assassin - ninja class

2. Knight - cool knight

3. Sorceress - elemental magic

4. Sniper - gun user

5. Ranger - bow user

6. Priestess - holy magic

7. Paladin - tanker

8. Champion - best martial arts

9. Pirate - bad guy

10. Melody - musical magic

11. Alchemist - androids

12. Blacksmith - Weapon and armor specialist

13. Warlock - Undead magic and summoner

14. Sage - anti magic

15. Warrior - barbaric

16. Phantom - illusion

17. Witch - Black magic

18. Summoner - Have companion fight along side

 

Skills is not weapon lock. You can wear any desired weapon.

 

Role (dps, tanker, support) is not class lock. You can be assassin, but a tank, a support. 

 

This game will be mix of Ragnarok online, Guild War 2, Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2.

 

 

  whatsapp422

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/19/14
Posts: 1

6/19/14 10:37:50 PM#2094
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  uglybluecat

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/08
Posts: 12

6/26/14 12:49:08 PM#2095

I really enjoy playing solo with other ppl around.

I find having other people around mixes things up enough to make it more interesting, like doing crazy stuff in town or weird conversations in world chat, maybe killing everything just before I get there or suddenly attacking me in a pvp zone.

I don't want to group with anybody, but it would be boring without them.

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

6/28/14 6:21:49 PM#2096
Originally posted by uglybluecat

I really enjoy playing solo with other ppl around.

I find having other people around mixes things up enough to make it more interesting, like doing crazy stuff in town or weird conversations in world chat, maybe killing everything just before I get there or suddenly attacking me in a pvp zone.

I don't want to group with anybody, but it would be boring without them.

I potentially like other people around, if they're not assholes, which far too often in MMOs, they are.  I'm almost always chatting in an MMO with friends, but I don't play with any of them because their playstyle and my playstyle almost never coincide. Everyone is rushing to endgame, I don't play endgame at all.  Everyone wants as much XP per hour as possible, I want to take things slow, search through the dungeons, loot every drop, etc.  Since everyone else is running off down the corridor, shooting everything that moves and most things that don't, I just don't play with them.

Therefore I solo, both because I have no one to play with that isn't frustrating and because so many people in MMOs are just pricks.  I agree though, it's nice to have at least some of them around, even if a lot of them, I'd like to just string up by their testicles.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  mbd1968

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/07
Posts: 2054

6/28/14 6:29:57 PM#2097

Group v. Solo is irrelevant. MMORPGs should offer alternatives to progression - not leveling as levels assume end game, you should be able to do everything from when you roll your character to when you quit playing. Whether you wish to solo or group quest, run dungeons or raids, PvP, gather, craft or just explore an MMO should offer everyone these alternatives to progress their character. If you want to try a new profession you should be able to without having to reroll.

But, as my father used to say... I am living in cloud cuckoo land... so this will never happen.

  Mightclark

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/14
Posts: 1

7/02/14 7:33:29 PM#2098
MMO and solo play are a unique concept, I often play solo as it's just natural for me, but it's like being introverted in the game, I'm fine with meeting others, just tend to do my own thing.
  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

7/07/14 10:38:03 AM#2099

"One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50."

 

The above is a Zenimax announcement regarding Elder Scrolls changes.

 

Anyone else thinkZenimax devs aren't the only ones employing this type of arm twisting to get solo players to group?  I find that devs won't be honest and say they don't want solo players (because they want our money) so they just try to make soloing unrewarding and grindy all out of proportion to group content.

 

I'm glad this came back and bit Zenimax in the ass.  I hope solo players will start noticing these techniques in other games and openly protest it and refuse to tolerate it.  Don't want us to solo?  Tell us your game is not for us.  Want our money?  Cater to our play style and leave off with the arm twisting.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  LeopoldLee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/14
Posts: 4

8/08/14 3:04:29 AM#2100
Originally posted by rozenblade1

Okay...I feel MMOs should not be "Group Only", and definitely not "Solo Only" games...

There should be SOME Solo quests, but definitely MORE Group quests...

The reason I say this is because MMOs are meant to be played socially.  Player interaction includes grouping...Thats why they are MMOs and not single player RPGs...

Now, I'm not bashing the soloist, but some recent MMOs are trying too much to cater to the solo player...I do not agree with this...

Like I said, have some solo quests, actually, a healthy supply of solo quests, but not so much as to pull people away from grouping...

Grouping should be the main focus of MMOs, and soloing should be next...

quite agree with you.

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