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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Should MMOs let you have the ability to solo raids?

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123 posts found
  TheScavenger

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 681

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  5/08/13 10:56:46 PM#1

I'll talk about WoW for this, since its the longest played MMO I've been a part of and only one I had actual fun with at end game.

 

In WoW, only two classes can solo raid (or did when I played, that being, Death Knights and Paladins)...these two were (when i played) regarded as the best. However, they can only solo old raids that don't matter anymore. It is a fun challenge, but not much else.

 

But when WOTLK came out...I couldn't experience the Lich King for myself. Which was really disappointing after playing the Warcraft 3 and expansion. I had to go on Youtube and watch videos of it, which isn't nearly the same.

 

Why not let one do raids, but get much weaker items than one who would do the same raid in a group? This way, everyone can enjoy the content and not just the very small population that raided in WoW. This would add lots of content in the game for a much larger group of people. This would be true for any MMO that has raiding. The raiders still get their uber items and achievements, soloers get suitable items, but more importantly, get to actually see the story AND the content.

 

Then everyone wins and experiences the whole game.

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  atticusbc

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5/08/13 10:59:05 PM#2
sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.
  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4589

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5/08/13 11:05:25 PM#3

I have no expectations of every agreeing with Op on this but...

 

anyone who soloed a BC raid at level 85+ did not have anywhere near the experience doing the raid at level 70 provided.

 

raids are simply not designed with soloing in mind and cant provide the intended experience to a player soloing them.

 

It's the equivalent of using a screwdriver as a crowbar. It's...just not what its best used for. it makes a poor crowbar. It kinda works but a crowbar would work better. 

  TheScavenger

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Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 681

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  5/08/13 11:07:13 PM#4
Originally posted by atticusbc
sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.

Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. Not all MMOs I guess would need this, like Vanguard doesn't have any storyline and I don't think Everquest ever did. But, like WoW...the raids are the biggest element to the finale of the story.

 

However, one is able to do the whole story solo...all the way up to Blizzard's finale.

 

I'd be okay if the whole storyline forced you to group (or raid), but Blizzard did not design the story that way.

 

I personally don't care at all about the items or money...I just wanted to see the end of the story.

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  waynejr2

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Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

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5/08/13 11:10:26 PM#5
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by atticusbc
sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.

Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. Not all MMOs I guess would need this, like Vanguard doesn't have any storyline and I don't think Everquest ever did. But, like WoW...the raids are the biggest element to the finale of the story.

 

However, one is able to do the whole story solo...all the way up to Blizzard's finale.

 

I'd be okay if the whole storyline forced you to group (or raid), but Blizzard did not design the story that way.

 

I personally don't care at all about the items or money...I just wanted to see the end of the story.

 To the idea of soloing a endgame raid I say hell no.  If what you are asking for is a story mode, where all you get is the story but zero other benefits including xp, loot, attunements and achievements, then maybe. As long as it's only story.

  Robokapp

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Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4589

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5/08/13 11:14:02 PM#6
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by atticusbc
sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.

Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. Not all MMOs I guess would need this, like Vanguard doesn't have any storyline and I don't think Everquest ever did. But, like WoW...the raids are the biggest element to the finale of the story.

 

However, one is able to do the whole story solo...all the way up to Blizzard's finale.

 

I'd be okay if the whole storyline forced you to group (or raid), but Blizzard did not design the story that way.

 

I personally don't care at all about the items or money...I just wanted to see the end of the story.

Can you tell us about this story from either tier (between 1 and 13 please as i have no raided 14+). 

 

I need to test a theory...

 

which story did you see abut think a player would miss by not being able to solo - or raid at all - a tier or expansion?

 

again, I'm interested in the story itself. in brief details. 

  TheScavenger

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Posts: 681

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OP  5/08/13 11:14:37 PM#7
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by atticusbc
sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.

Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. Not all MMOs I guess would need this, like Vanguard doesn't have any storyline and I don't think Everquest ever did. But, like WoW...the raids are the biggest element to the finale of the story.

 

However, one is able to do the whole story solo...all the way up to Blizzard's finale.

 

I'd be okay if the whole storyline forced you to group (or raid), but Blizzard did not design the story that way.

 

I personally don't care at all about the items or money...I just wanted to see the end of the story.

 To the idea of soloing a endgame raid I say hell no.  If what you are asking for is a story mode, where all you get is the story but zero other benefits including xp, loot, attunements and achievements, then maybe. As long as it's only story.

Something like what LOTRO did. While I never got into LOTRO...it had story mode dungeons (at least while leveling, never got to endgame). You still got exp, loot...but it was far weaker than what you would get in a group. Find better items out in the world. But, it let you see the actual story and progress the story.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't care however if there was no xp or loot...if the game has a heavy story element to it (like LOTRO and WoW)...I just want to see the story. Don't care about purples or whatever.

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  eyelolled

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Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3086

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5/08/13 11:14:48 PM#8
Absolutely!!!   People complain about GW2 not having raid content which makes me think that every game with raids, should make sure they are solo-able. I mean, if a casual friendly game should become more raid friendly, then raid friendly game should also become more casual friendly. It's just fair 

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  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

5/08/13 11:14:57 PM#9

For sightseeing and going through the story, yes I agree with you. There should be no noteworthy rewards.

  anemo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 699

5/09/13 5:04:01 AM#10

With completely perfect play the player should be able to solo even the latest raids.   However the player should be punished pretty hard for even the slightest mistake.

However there should not be any disadvantage in grouping that ever-wow-alikes have(exp split, loot split, and similar).

Grouping should be something a player chooses to do and should be emergent rather than forced.

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  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 5:15:24 AM#11
They should have the facility to let you take as many people as you want

BY NOT SHOVING THEM IN INSTANCES
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1563

5/09/13 5:26:13 AM#12
Originally posted by ShakyMo
They should have the facility to let you take as many people as you want

BY NOT SHOVING THEM IN INSTANCES

Like Vanguard, makes me laugh when people make these comments yet they are not playing Vanguard.

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  User Deleted
5/09/13 5:28:37 AM#13
Originally posted by TheScavenger

I'll talk about WoW for this, since its the longest played MMO I've been a part of and only one I had actual fun with at end game.

 

In WoW, only two classes can solo raid (or did when I played, that being, Death Knights and Paladins)...these two were (when i played) regarded as the best. However, they can only solo old raids that don't matter anymore. It is a fun challenge, but not much else.

 

But when WOTLK came out...I couldn't experience the Lich King for myself. Which was really disappointing after playing the Warcraft 3 and expansion. I had to go on Youtube and watch videos of it, which isn't nearly the same.

 

Why not let one do raids, but get much weaker items than one who would do the same raid in a group? This way, everyone can enjoy the content and not just the very small population that raided in WoW. This would add lots of content in the game for a much larger group of people. This would be true for any MMO that has raiding. The raiders still get their uber items and achievements, soloers get suitable items, but more importantly, get to actually see the story AND the content.

 

Then everyone wins and experiences the whole game.

 

I dont mind them making easier versions once they become redundant, like Rift does, but I dont think there should be solo versions while the raid is active. It just cheapens the experience. EQ2 is doing this at the moment, having solo versions of all the end game stuff and I personally think it is terrible. Half the fun of raiding was seeing the epic new encounter you would be facing off against. Having a solo version available just ruins the appeal.

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

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5/09/13 5:58:22 AM#14
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. 

So the MMO in MMORPG... isn't crucial? It'd be like getting to the Super Bowl on an NFL game with no team. Experience it all you want, you're missing the point of the game.

  Loktofeit

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Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12113

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5/09/13 5:59:41 AM#15
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Why not let one do raids, but get much weaker items than one who would do the same raid in a group?

 

Why not let one do a raid and if he can pull it off by himself, he reaps all the respective rewards of it as he managed to solo what normally takes, 5, 8, or 10 players to do?

 

Asheron's Call was a very social game and when someone solo'd difficult content, and the global announcement went out of their achievement, they'd get a bunch of 'congrats!' tells from people. I get the feeling you'd send a different kind of tell.

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  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4589

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5/09/13 6:11:28 AM#16
[mod edit]

 

the answer is obvious perhaps to anyone who has raided for a while but the question is still worth asking.

 

solo content is something that a new player who has difficulty finding groups might think he wants, because he has no understanding on server relationships between players that group content leads to.

 

in the end, MMOs can't provide the solo quality of content that single-player games can...so obviously the MMOs should stick to their forte points: group and large-scale group content.

 

 I love vanilla, I love coke. but vanilla coke is revoltingly bad. similarly, MMOs can't be 'mmo version of single-player games' ... but with single player gameplay. There is no such thing. Ideologically it makes no sense. If the MMO part is an afterthought in an MMO, you're going to have a problem. A big one. At the end of first month. When the storyline is finished.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 6:19:47 AM#17
Savage
Yeah but vg doesn't have pvp
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1563

5/09/13 6:25:19 AM#18
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Savage
Yeah but vg doesn't have pvp

Play DF then, thing is their are games out there that have what people claim they want, don't moan about it because you or they chose to play games like GW2 or NW.

You don't want instances but you want PVP, why are you not playing DFUW?

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  RavingRabbid

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5/09/13 6:27:09 AM#19

IMO max level raid content NO. Lower level raid content probrobly yes.

If any company decides to have solo raid content than have the rewards diminished. There is the possibility to have the player pick a difficuly level for better challenges and awards.  Several games have tried this successfuly.

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  Syllendale

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/09
Posts: 156

5/09/13 6:31:21 AM#20
Annoys me thinking people want to solo a MASSIVE ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game. Makes the whole reason to have an MMO around in the first place. But I'm old fashioned like that.
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