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260 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

3/29/13 11:55:26 AM#101

No, corporate meddling is killing them.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

3/29/13 12:03:14 PM#102
Originally posted by Xobdnas

No, corporate meddling is killing them.

Well, killed them. We haven't had a great one (excluding Vanguard) in 8 years.

 

Planetside 2 is pretty great though.

  kostantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/05
Posts: 29

3/29/13 12:08:21 PM#103

Although evolution is indeed taking place,

sometimes it's not what you want/need/like

from horses we now have cars, but i still like ridding to enjoy myself

  Vyeth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/07
Posts: 1464

Celebrated pariah of MMORPG.com

3/29/13 12:11:23 PM#104

MMO's are dying? What about the great new MMO's like Sim City and Diablo III?

 

(wait.. read my face.. -_-)

  Jjix

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 143

3/29/13 12:16:26 PM#105
Wait, and that is a problem? If I just wanted "community" I could sit in a chat room.

People use community to define themselves, that is essential to the structure of the ego, and the strength of a community, in turn, depends on its members having defined identities. Chatrooms with pure anonymity do not generate community, they just devolve into meanspiritedness. Likewise for online games.

 

Conversely, immersion into a game depends on identity with your avatar which depends on there being a strong community. This is why no genre of games was able to recreate the complete immersion feeling of a MMO, despite the fact that many rpg single player games involve far more story and better graphics. Identity with one's character is largely dependent on the reciprocal feedback that character gains through the online community of other player characters. If no one is identified with their characters, the community relies on real life identities through which to relate to one another, but no one wants to relate to other peoples "real life" personalities in a MMO, resulting in a wasteland of solo players who only chat in order to be rude to one another, with helpful players offering advice mixed in now and then. Interaction is guarded and cynical. The meeting of two characters online is not the meeting of two heroes, but of two a-holes half pretending to be heroes.

 

This type of gaming environment, one foot in game, the other in "reality", has always existed and always will exist. MMOs were a different environment, and MMO gamers were a different type of gamer. The MMO gamer was the type of gamer who had both feet in the world of fantasy, nothing remained for the real world. That is why the sterotypical MMO gamer had no real life, lived in their mother's basement or survived eating sardines and wheat thins. The Guild perfectly represents -- accurately I must say -- the true MMO gamer. The fact that the casual gamer took away our genre and forced us to play like them has been painful. Even though we want to have no lives, we actually would prefer to live with the barest excuse of a life just so we could fully game . . . even though we are willing to make that sacrefice, we can't, because there aren't any games like that anymore. No, "mobile is the future!" we are being told. Bleh.

  jesteralways

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 689

3/29/13 12:18:44 PM#106
MMO is a place for me where i can meet people like me, people who loves to play games, people who are shunned by others for being different in our choice of how we spend our fun time. when i 1st started playing mmo i told to myself "i am not alone, i will never be alone again", but unfortunately those days are just gone. i enter game, start questing , i see some people running around me but i am not sure if they are real people or just some bot. if i ask for help on a quest i don't get any answer for a long time and then after a 5-20 minutes(only if i am lucky!!) i get answer "you can solo that quest" or "that so easy, do it  yourself" or even worse sometimes "learn to play fool and stop begging". pvp people are even worse, not going to even talk about it. of course there are people who "try' to be social and make or join guild but they are "social" as long as they get their own end satisfied. this is just so wrong. 

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

3/29/13 12:23:42 PM#107
Originally posted by kostantis

Although evolution is indeed taking place,

sometimes it's not what you want/need/like

from horses we now have cars, but i still like ridding to enjoy myself

Evolution implies things get better, more robust.

 

Things are getting simpler, or getting taken out all together. In many cases, the design is getting much MUCH worse.

  Jjix

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 143

3/29/13 12:30:15 PM#108
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by kostantis

Although evolution is indeed taking place,

sometimes it's not what you want/need/like

from horses we now have cars, but i still like ridding to enjoy myself

Evolution implies things get better, more robust.

 

Things are getting simpler, or getting taken out all together. In many cases, the design is getting much MUCH worse.

In the long run evolution does imply things are getting "better", that doesn't mean there aren't bumps in the road or that the path is simple and straight. It certainly doesn't mean that we should just accept what we have now because it is "more evolved", part of the evolution includes our dissatisfaction with the current state of things.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1945

3/29/13 12:36:45 PM#109
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by daltanious
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by daltanious
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

 

Your thinking.

Never been so many MMO games out there and never been so many good MMO games out there in history and never so many players played MMO games.

just cause people left and right are hoping on the cash shop band wagon for fast bucks dousnt mean anything. most of those MMOs out there aint worth jack.

heck to be honest just cause the grapics are getting prettiyer dont mean they are better, to be honest there isnt even any new MMOs that truly reach out and grab me of late, most i barely have a passing intrtest in.

Wow, Swtor, Gw2, ... later TESO, Wildstar, TSW, ... will keep me busy for long long time. Once there was only Wow.

There was never only WoW. WoW was, and still is, one of the worst of the bunch. and TSW and SWTOR aren't even really MMOs. TESO is shaping up to be garbage just like all the other AAA MMORPGs.

 

There have never been so many MMOs...making so little money.

We used to have 5 VASTLY different AAA MMORPGs all enjoying great success and steady growth. Now we have one aged titan who has never implemented anything unique in its entire lifespan, and a bunch of dead and dying clones.

Yes, yes, ... I'm sure its like you say. :-)

But what matter are NUMBERS. Maybe some company could try still nowadays sell Pacman as best game ever but I hardly believe they could live from that.

Well, I forgot to mention Aoc, War, Eq and Eq2, .... many at least fun despite zilion of bugs.

  Akais

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/07
Posts: 268

3/29/13 1:00:54 PM#110

I would say the aspect of community is on the decline in MMO's as of now.

I would attribute it to the removal of many of the things that players found annoying in MMO's over the decade.

 

Death Penalties

Corpse Recovery

Slow xp gain to next level

 

All of these made useful/efficient soloing much more difficult and encouraged a sense of and respect for the server community.

They also forced you to explore more

Ask the help of other players more

On the downside all those facets were terribly conducive to making an unlucky play session range from  non-productive to a downright disaster

( Any older players experience that corpse run in an area they shouldn't have ventured just to get back the LAST items you wanted to drop on death only to leave a wagonload of your own corpses behind, gain a massive death penalty, and find your first corpse decomposed or looted? )

 

Much like real life, when you no longer have to cooperate and compromise to achieve a shared goal, you don't... So, when that shared goal does present itself, you have no network to turn to accomplish it and no idea what's acceptable in working with others to achieve it.

 

I really don't think there is a ready-made answer to the dilemma, sadly. Mine would truly be to allow both types of games to exist in the space. The problem is that it would appear that most companies are more interested with being #1 in the MMO race than turning a long term profit.

 

 

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

3/29/13 1:05:38 PM#111
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

I haven't seen a game with a true community where the primary focus was the world and human interaction and the gameplay came second in MMO in a number of years. Now the gameplay is frist and if it isn't too much trouble maybe you'll be interacting with someone too, and if no ones interacts, join an artificial bubble called a guild and interact in the bubble.

 

Most people don't need MMO to interact online, there are plenty of chat opportunities, facebook, twitter, disqus, liveFire, forums, email, messengers, smartphones, youtube. You have all these ways to interact with people you want, there is way too much noise to make a world where people will be truly immersed and willing to spend time with each other in a game outside of gameplay.

There's no need for it anymore, there are thousands of other and arguably better ways to interact online.

I think the term MMO lives on even though the games are now becomes multiplayer action games, but the idea behind MMO is long gone I think, it's replaced by other communities online that are far easier and more effective way to interact.

Agreed, classic EQ1 was the last MMO I played. if other players don't matter neither does the game.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20703

3/29/13 1:28:31 PM#112
Originally posted by Vyeth

MMO's are dying? What about the great new MMO's like Sim City and Diablo III?

 

(wait.. read my face.. -_-)

Glad you brought that up. D3 sold 12M copies and still top 15 on xfire after so many months. Some may argue it is not a MMO .. close enough for me.

I bet its expansion will be successful .. and lead the way for the future "mmo-like" games.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20703

3/29/13 1:32:45 PM#113
Originally posted by Akais

I would say the aspect of community is on the decline in MMO's as of now.

I would attribute it to the removal of many of the things that players found annoying in MMO's over the decade.

 

Death Penalties

Corpse Recovery

Slow xp gain to next level

 None of these is fun gameplay for me. Glad they are gone.

All of these made useful/efficient soloing much more difficult and encouraged a sense of and respect for the server community.

Dont care abotu a server community. Why restrict yourself to a server? Cross realm is better. Cross game is even better. COmmunity is just a bunch of people who have fun together.

They also forced you to explore more

"forced"? Glad it is gone. If it is forced, it is no fun. If i want to explore, i explore. Don't want anyone to force me too.

Ask the help of other players more

Don't want to depend on others.

On the downside all those facets were terribly conducive to making an unlucky play session range from  non-productive to a downright disaster

Exactly. Waste of my time having no fun is not my idea of playing a game.

( Any older players experience that corpse run in an area they shouldn't have ventured just to get back the LAST items you wanted to drop on death only to leave a wagonload of your own corpses behind, gain a massive death penalty, and find your first corpse decomposed or looted? )

 

Much like real life, when you no longer have to cooperate and compromise to achieve a shared goal, you don't... So, when that shared goal does present itself, you have no network to turn to accomplish it and no idea what's acceptable in working with others to achieve it.

 Exactly. A game don't need to force people to co-op. Just hit "LFD" if you want to .. otherwise, solo.

I really don't think there is a ready-made answer to the dilemma, sadly. Mine would truly be to allow both types of games to exist in the space. The problem is that it would appear that most companies are more interested with being #1 in the MMO race than turning a long term profit.

 Yes, there is. The answer is the marketplace. It is not a problem, unless you don't like the games.

 

 

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

3/29/13 1:35:46 PM#114
Originally posted by ImixZinz

....

I think the idea of "end game" also kind of helped kill community....

 

 

I totally agree. I am the player who likes the journey not the terminus. I have always hated how "end-gamers" tend to give you a formula designed to get you the skills and gear that will benefit them and not want you to play to actually experience and enjoy the game in it's entirety. That is my experience and it has ruined many MMO's for me.

Currently bored with MMO's.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

3/29/13 2:00:00 PM#115
Originally posted by jpnz

This post is factually false.

The number of players that play the 'good-old-MMOs' has largely stayed the same.

The so called 'casuals / WoW kiddies' are new players into the market.

Staying the same amount of players is hardly dying.

 

No, you are factually incorrect.

 

Developer's are targeting younger crowds of people with their newer games, thus drawing in the adolecent youth. Teenager's don't have money...  so they rely on parents for their fix. That is why the trinkets were invented..  easier for a kid to convince their parents.

Big difference trying to beg your Mom for her CC#  vs  sitting down next 2 ur Dad, on one of his 3-box systems. Roleplayers have money for their hobby. MMORPG are not games, but game worlds...

 

What we are seeing is true... MMO's are dying... & thank god! 

 

 

At the premium level, MMo's are being replaced by MMORPG's.. 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3888

RIP City of Heroes!

3/29/13 2:03:14 PM#116
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Xobdnas

No, corporate meddling is killing them.

Well, killed them. We haven't had a great one (excluding Vanguard) in 8 years.

 

Planetside 2 is pretty great though.

 Vangaurd may have been great for you and a few people.  The community spoke and it was not great.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/29/13 2:07:39 PM#117
Originally posted by BadSpock

That's probably the only decent argument in this thread.

Before social media/networking became big, MMOs were a place to have a seperate, virtual identity.

People cared about reputation and community, and the games/systems reflected that.

There was a big difference in online play versus offline.

Now that everything is online, there is no difference between your self and your online self, so things like roleplay and immersion and community are not is important inside the game world.

Since every game is online now to some extent, online RPGs are no longer a world to escape to but simply a time waster/place for fun like everything else on the internet.

Like all things, technology and the "instant access" it gives have sped the world up - life is simply faster and more connected/intertwined electronically.

The games, their systems, and the "average" player's experience reflects that.

When I started playing MMOs, we didn't "surf the internet" we logged on for very specific purposes with our telephone line modems.

There was no online integration of our ilves.

We didn't have chat clients until "always on" DSL / cable came about. We didn't have social networking. Most of our gaming was done offline, and multiplayer generally meant crowding 4+ people around the N64.

MMOs aren't dying. They are evolving.

And as per usual, society (the players) is struggling to keep up with the pace technological change has brought.

MMOs are in flux.

Great points, BadSpock. Tagging for future reference.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Thebrave246

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/07
Posts: 167

3/29/13 2:09:40 PM#118
People don't exclusively play MMOs to talk to people and socialize. MMOs bring much more to the table then just that. Like you said you can do that on Facebook, etc etc. People, including myself, play MMOs to work together as a team to accomplish goals, guild halls, raids, etc. I love the teamplay aspect of MMOs. MMOs are just evolving, they are not dying, they are evolving to bringing more to the table then just social interaction via the internet. You will see.
  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1380

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

3/29/13 3:43:47 PM#119
If you want game play to suck and get more community join IMVU or Gaia.  I want to raid.

Next time if they ask your name tell them "Your Overlord." There's nothing more satisfying than an Arby's employee repeatedly yelling over the munching masses, "Your Overlord's classic cheddar is up!!!"

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 124

3/29/13 5:05:55 PM#120
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I want to raid.

Conveniently, you are very well-served by the industry at present.

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