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260 posts found
  BigHatLogan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/09/06
Posts: 695

3/28/13 12:48:46 PM#41

There are a lot of reasons MMORPG's are dying.  But let us break it down a bit more.  They aren't all dying, and there are a few out there that actually have real old style communities.  The crappy MMORPGs are dying the quickest.  This is a great thing!  The head of SWTOR remains on a spike as a warning to all future developers that they won't get anywhere without some real innovation in the MMORPG world. 

 

I hate the vast majority of MMORPGs and the main reason for this is that they are way too easy.  There is no real challenge, and no real penalty for failure.  Progression is 100% based on how much time a person puts in.  95% of MMORPG PVE content can be soloed with ease.  No one will ever tell nostalgic stories about killing 10 wolves. 

 

In MMORPGs with challenging content and real scary death penalties then people will tell terrifying stories.  The story may be just that they almost got killed by some mob somewhere but add in a nasty death penalty and suddenly almost getting killed is quite scary and emotional.  When there is true danger in mmorpgs then players will need to work together.  This creates community.  Community is pointless when everything is soloable. 

 

Want to see an awesome community in an mmorpg?  Just add harsh death penalties and make it difficult to run solo. 

Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!

I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

3/28/13 12:51:54 PM#42

Originally posted by DMKano

We are evolving faster and faster due to technology changing the way we interact.

Your average gamer in 2013 is very different than your gamer in 1999 when UO and EQ1 were out.

The world has changed, we have changed, and the games have changed.

Its evolution, like it or not, it won't stop just because we disagree with its direction.

So no MMOs are not dying they are adapting to the new world and new gamers wants and needs. 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I tell ya, there's nothing like a nice solid Crosley Kettle. I miss those days.

MMOs are dying in the same way that the telephone has.

Two very great posts that I'm sure will be passed over.  Lokto gets extra points for making me look up Crosley Kettle lol.

 

Sorry OP, improvise, adapt, and overcome.  If you don't and go the way the dinosaur that's your fault.  Evolve or be left behind.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Hellidol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 354

3/28/13 12:52:19 PM#43
Originally posted by azzamasin

Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.

 

 

Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.

If you call a sheep a sheep then it is a sheep. If you call a bear a sheep then it is now a sheep also but, was it the original sheep, nope it became what we call it not because it was it.

 

MMOs have simply changed into something that wasnt intented. They now apeal to the majority of people and the majority of people are not educated or experienced in what a MMO was to be but are educated in what it became. Some call these MMOs today crap because they are by their standards simple and un-interesting. They are simple because if you can figure out the mechanics you can beat the content. Older MMOs had ever evolving mechanics and required strategic pvp strategy. Today pvp is really a joke compare to then where you had risk (lose everything on your person) reward (get everything off the person you kill or even their player build house), today we have risk (you die and lose nothing) reward (you get a token for winning to buy premade gear).

Also to add to the whole gear thing in older MMOs you had to use trade craft to get items you want, those that are not familiar with trade craft people google it, I can type up a whole write up on it by it self. You can make sought after items through time that were rare because of the materials needed and percentage chance to fail. Today you just need to kill the predicable content to get the really nice items to stand a round and be looked at then log off from boredom.

 

So IMO what the OP is talking about is MMOs are not the MMOs we ( original ) MMORPGers are used to and would like a game with todays graphics to play, it would seem TESO is going to be pretty close.

  User Deleted
3/28/13 12:52:21 PM#44
There are more mmo's  being developed now than ever before, if mmo's were dying  then big companies wouldn't be investing in the genre. We are still in mmorpg genre's infancy.
  Howry

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/09
Posts: 85

3/28/13 12:53:57 PM#45

I dont think MMOs are dying I think the market is over saturated. It used to be the MMO players were all in a handful of MMOs. Now there are a bazillion MMOs out there so the MMO masses are much more spread out.

 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/28/13 12:57:29 PM#46
Originally posted by JudgeUK

- The LFG/LFR grouping options:  this has removed the need to get to know people in the game. Click the button - wait - join  - finish - loot - leave.

However, there are both plusses and minuses to this.

It is only plus for me. It is a matter of preference. I don't play games to know people. I know enough people.

So, is it a bad thing?

Again, a matter of perspsective. Not a bad thing for me.

As usual, the market will decide. We post on here with personal experiences, however the games companies have depts of people analysing game trends and behaviours. If they see a more solo oriented mmo as the model likely to succeed - then that is the way it will be.

Already decided. Look at the successes. WoW, LOL, WOT, D3, GW2. Even TOR is making a comeback now it is F2P.

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6586

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

3/28/13 1:08:03 PM#47

They are dying as far as hoping they become more advanced with more depth,but never give up hope.

Eventually like in the real world,a flooded market will kill off a lot of foolish investors and the sub par developers.

I am afraid that developers see a small market,so there si no incentive to risk a big project.We will never see the 20 or so million new DSL gamers that arrived just in time for Wow to flourish.The numbers actualluy appear to be about the same 6 ,million Wow has lost and they are divided amongst all the new games that come out.

What will happen is these develoeprs are going to go cheaper and cheaper until eventually there is a large gap for a few to go back and create something big.

I think of it as a small car market.If everyone starts making small cars,a couple manufacturers can go back to big size cars and flourish.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Vidir

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 965

3/28/13 1:10:15 PM#48
Not dying but changing.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/28/13 1:12:33 PM#49
Originally posted by Vidir
Not dying but changing.

yeah .. and change to be better games.

No longer shackled by a single game world .. with instances .. and cross realm functions .. and many other ways to play.

No longer shackled by an in-game community .. with a bigger community across server, even across games.

No longer shackled by huge time investments, and like a job .. with LFD, LFR and bite-size activites.

 

  DAS1337

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

3/28/13 1:13:07 PM#50

Think about it some more then, because your conclusion is flat out wrong.

 

MMO's are bigger than they've ever been.  Just because they aren't designed specifically to your liking, doesn't mean they aren't alive and well.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 573

3/28/13 1:20:57 PM#51
Originally posted by azzamasin

Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.

 

 

Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.

They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 124

3/28/13 1:22:24 PM#52

The opinion that most modern MMOs do not foster the sense of community that made some earlier titles so exciting is a commonly held one, and it's fair.  The emphasis on the single player experience within MMOs and stagnant (or inconsequential) end-game has indeed lessened the likelihood of generating new communities in-game, though outside communities can certainly graft themselves into them (i.e. guilds).  This trend is a direct result of the tradtionally high production costs of MMOs, requiring most titles to follow a play-it-safe approach, and a history of learning the wrong lessons from predecessors.

We are hardly nearing the end of the MMO. In fact, in the scheme of history we are looking at only the very beginning.  But the genre is certainly evolving, and I do believe we are at a bit of a crossroads, only now taking stock of the post-WoW fallout.  WoW pulled the amazing trick of grabbing existing MMO fans with a well-executed evolution of the genre that also proved palatable to a large audience of new players who found the game more accessible (and better marketed) than previous titles, but make no mistake, its features were not designed to foster community building and many of them had the opposite effect (instancing, soloability).  Other developers thought they could tap into the WoW fanbase by picking up many of the games features in "clone" titles.  Some years later, after several big-budget disappointments, they're realizing that their strategy was all wrong.  In a game like WoW, players invest a lot of time in leveling and gearing up a character.  There's little incentive to start over in a new game that provides a pretty similar experience, even if it looks marginally better.  Moreover, many of the genre's purported "evolutions" actually put it in more direct competition with single-player games rather than taking advantage of the very "massive" aspect that defines the genre. What some developers are now starting to realize is that you're not likely to beat WoW at their own game because you're not fighting for an as-of-yet-untapped pool of new users, you're fighting largely for existing users who don't have much incentive to switch.  That's right, WoW got pretty much everyone who's really interested in that kind of game via word-of-mouth or marketing.  There's no untapped market to speak of for WoW clones, so if you want users for that kind of game, you need to wrest them from WoW's icy grip.

Developers are much more likely to poach WoW's userbase by offering something substantially different, or more likely chip away at it.  This would be best accomplished with niche style games who business model isn't predicated on massive numbers.  Technological advances now allows MMOs to be produced and maintained more cheaply than in years past.  Also, sandbox-style features have proven a cost-effective fountain of youth of gameplay, requiring far less developer hours and renewable gameplay compared to the content grind of expansions that can never outpace user demand.  These games might find new users as they could offer experiences that are desirable to players that were not interested in a WoW-style game, despite the marketing.  Once smaller games have tested some largely untried ideas, expect the next huge MMO to distill some of those experiences into a big budget title the way WoW did, but I don't think you'll see that big title for at least 5 years.

  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

3/28/13 1:26:11 PM#53
EVE is an mmo where community is rife, Being in one of the bigger alliances I have made some really solid friends who have gone beyond game to real life.
  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2683

3/28/13 1:34:12 PM#54
Originally posted by calranthe
EVE is an mmo where community is rife, Being in one of the bigger alliances I have made some really solid friends who have gone beyond game to real life.

^+1

Also all hail our goonswarm overlords o.o

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2618

110100100

3/28/13 1:39:54 PM#55


Originally posted by Skuz
You make some interesting observations, but using those same observations is how MMO's will get back to their roots, voice communications, facebook & twitter, those were really extrapolations of what was once found in MMO's, the niche community, then those concepts went mainstream & in the process maybe got diluted.

I can see a trend emerge where MMO's will be even better than in their niche days when they fully embrace all of those social interaction tools, and tools is really all they are in the same way the chat box in an mmo was a tool, to connect people with a common interest.

I don't see MMO as dying, just going through a phase that they have to re-invent themselves in & adapt to the new interaction standards, the potential is that MMO's will be able to reach a more diverse & far expanded range of people.


this is a great response and i agree totally.


  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1813

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/28/13 1:41:14 PM#56

the community doesn't come with a box ^^

 

it's actually found in guilds and co. try looking there.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2618

110100100

3/28/13 1:49:50 PM#57


Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by azzamasin Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.     Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.
They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

EQ and Daoc are two of my favorite mmo's of all time which both had excellent communities and both were *gasp* theme park games, go figure huh?

MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue.


  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/28/13 1:59:46 PM#58
Originally posted by baphamet

the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

 

MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue.

 

heck .. games do not even have to be a "true" MMO to be good. And of coures "good" is personal preference.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 573

3/28/13 2:02:20 PM#59
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by azzamasin Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.     Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.
They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

 

the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games and that is your opinion, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

EQ and Daoc are two of my favorite mmo's of all time which both had excellent communities and both were *gasp* theme park games, go figure huh?and that is your opinion

MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue. and that is your opinion

 

Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

3/28/13 2:07:56 PM#60

Disagree.

The sense of community is dieing.

 

Release any sandbox MMO from ages ago and we'll get the same result.

The playerbase is simply not the same anymore.

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