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Rift (Rift)
Trion Worlds | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 03/01/11)  | Pub:Trion Worlds
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260 posts found
  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1591

3/28/13 7:09:58 AM#21


Originally posted by CalmOceans
Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

I haven't seen a game with a true community where the primary focus was the world and human interaction and the gameplay came second in MMO in a number of years. Now the gameplay is frist and if it isn't too much trouble maybe you'll be interacting with someone too, and if no ones interacts, join an artificial bubble called a guild and interact in the bubble.

 

Most people don't need MMO to interact online, there are plenty of chat opportunities, facebook, twitter, disqus, liveFire, forums, email, messengers, smartphones, youtube. You have all these ways to interact with people you want, there is way too much noise to make a world where people will be truly immersed and willing to spend time with each other in a game outside of gameplay.

There's no need for it anymore, there are thousands of other and arguably better ways to interact online.

I think the term MMO lives on even though the games are now becomes multiplayer action games, but the idea behind MMO is long gone I think, it's replaced by other communities online that are far easier and more effective way to interact.



EVE: all on 1 servercluster, game doesn't hold your hand from start to finish, it does everything a themepark MMO doesn't do....and it's still growing after 10 years with breathtaking visuals.

Mind you: this is the only one MMO I can come up with and I played dozens...so it is a very exclusive club.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2887

3/28/13 7:09:59 AM#22
Originally posted by jpnz

Concept of 'player driven' is always a division of writing a book and reading a book.

Most people would rather read for entertainment than write. That might not be what you find entertaining but that's the majorities taste.

Then they should, quite rightfully, stick to Singleplayer games, not Massively Multiplayer Online games which have taken a swift dive into the shitter thanks to people who want, for some rather idiotic reason, to play singeplayer games with others from time to time... this is not an MMO, themeparks can, these days, rarely be called MMOs, what they are for the most part are limited interactive experiences.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3540

3/28/13 7:16:24 AM#23
Originally posted by Dihoru
 

Then they should, quite rightfully, stick to Singleplayer games, not Massively Multiplayer Online games which have taken a swift dive into the shitter thanks to people who want, for some rather idiotic reason, to play singeplayer games with others from time to time... this is not an MMO, themeparks can, these days, rarely be called MMOs, what they are for the most part are limited interactive experiences.

Last I checked, people that play the traditional MMOs back in the day are still playing those MMOs. The population of those MMOs haven't chnaged much over the years so from that point of view, nothing has changed.

You play what you like and other people will play what they like.

If you have a problem with that, tough.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Miblet

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

3/28/13 7:30:47 AM#24

If you were to play EQ1 nowadays it is nothing like the EQ of old.  I would imagine the same could be said of all the older games as companies have tried to make their games more open to newcomers.

  almalexius

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 187

Being pro is for losers.

3/28/13 7:42:49 AM#25
Ow come on that is complete rubbish. You are not in there to communicate are you? I'm in there to play a game so the comparison with some of those communities makes no sense at all.

WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.

Currently playing GW2.

  Miblet

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

3/28/13 7:54:27 AM#26

I buy singleplayer games to relax and do things at my own pace (enjoy the story etc).

I buy multiplayer games like Counterstrike etc to find a challenge and test my mettle against others.

I buy MMO games to play a game of the genre it is based with a large amount of other people.  It is the interaction I seek.  Without that a co-op game, or a singleplayer, would be almost certainly cheaper and more often than not more fun from a gaming perspective.  People make MMOs.  Communities make MMOs.

The community comparison makes perfect sense and to treat these games as singleplayer fast food proves the OPs point.

  User Deleted
3/28/13 8:04:33 AM#27

I don't see interaction for interaction's sake (social) as a primary aspect of MMORPGs, even the old ones.  I don't see them in the same way I see Facebook.

 

On the other side, I do think interaction as part of the gaming process is dying out.  Developers have gradually removed aspects of game mechanics that force or encourage interaction.

 

Then again, given the quality of the game communities...  Can you blame them?

 

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

3/28/13 8:31:23 AM#28
Originally posted by almalexius
Ow come on that is complete rubbish. You are not in there to communicate are you? I'm in there to play a game so the comparison with some of those communities makes no sense at all.

Maybe you are not, but believe it or not, a lot of people are in there to communicate. I'd even say without these people the MMORPG as a genre would not take root in the first place, as multiplayer games like Quake would suffice.

I remember the first few years I got to play MMOs. The common joke I kept hearing was that people weren't playing for the gameplay, they were playing despite the gameplay. :) 

Even in WOW, the MMO that - for many - brought polished combat to the MMO scene, I remember a lot of people getting bored of the game itself and just sticking around for the community. 

I just watched Garrett Fuller's interview with EverQuest Next lead Dave Georgeson, and to me, he seems to be pushing to break out of the combat bind MMOs have stuck themselves into. And he, for one, seems to think that combat doesn't make the game but social interaction does.

And he's got my attention, that's for sure.

 

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

3/28/13 8:36:18 AM#29
Anyone game that is all instance, sharded, had movie scenes and only have one option to level questing isn't a MMO. Don't forget if the MMO lists Raiding as a end game it is a fail already. MMO do not have a end game and great MMOs will be playable for years. You have to take away the mind set of leveling and make it fun to play again for the 1st level to the last level.
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5046

3/28/13 8:38:21 AM#30

We are evolving faster and faster due to technology changing the way we interact.

Your average gamer in 2013 is very different than your gamer in 1999 when UO and EQ1 were out.

The world has changed, we have changed, and the games have changed.

Its evolution, like it or not, it won't stop just because we disagree with its direction.

So no MMOs are not dying they are adapting to the new world and new gamers wants and needs. 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1406

3/28/13 8:40:28 AM#31
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

I haven't seen a game with a true community where the primary focus was the world and human interaction and the gameplay came second in MMO in a number of years. Now the gameplay is frist and if it isn't too much trouble maybe you'll be interacting with someone too, and if no ones interacts, join an artificial bubble called a guild and interact in the bubble.

 

Most people don't need MMO to interact online, there are plenty of chat opportunities, facebook, twitter, disqus, liveFire, forums, email, messengers, smartphones, youtube. You have all these ways to interact with people you want, there is way too much noise to make a world where people will be truly immersed and willing to spend time with each other in a game outside of gameplay.

There's no need for it anymore, there are thousands of other and arguably better ways to interact online.

I think the term MMO lives on even though the games are now becomes multiplayer action games, but the idea behind MMO is long gone I think, it's replaced by other communities online that are far easier and more effective way to interact.

While there is truth to your post, take a game like WoW for example; there is a large enough playerbase in it where it houses a sizable subset of players who login strictly for social interaction. I think there are a few that have just that, you might just have to dig deeper to find it.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

3/28/13 8:43:07 AM#32

I tell ya, there's nothing like a nice solid Crosley Kettle. I miss those days.

 

MMOs are dying in the same way that the telephone has.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  hardicon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 359

3/28/13 8:51:18 AM#33

its not that mmos are dying, its just that they suck now.  either devs or the suits are chasing the wow dream and making crappy games.  noone is gonna outWoW WoW.  just aint gonna happen.  as soon as all these idiot devs and companies wake up and start making good games again the mmo genre will be just fine.

of course mmos as you describe are all the old ones.  if you want that interaction it is there, you just have to play a 10 year plus game.  anything from 2004 on your not going to find a meaningful game, just a bunch of add people on their current themepark ride.

  almalexius

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 187

Being pro is for losers.

3/28/13 9:32:58 AM#34
Originally posted by Nikopol
Originally posted by almalexius
Ow come on that is complete rubbish. You are not in there to communicate are you? I'm in there to play a game so the comparison with some of those communities makes no sense at all.

Maybe you are not, but believe it or not, a lot of people are in there to communicate. I'd even say without these people the MMORPG as a genre would not take root in the first place, as multiplayer games like Quake would suffice.

I remember the first few years I got to play MMOs. The common joke I kept hearing was that people weren't playing for the gameplay, they were playing despite the gameplay. :) 

Even in WOW, the MMO that - for many - brought polished combat to the MMO scene, I remember a lot of people getting bored of the game itself and just sticking around for the community. 

I just watched Garrett Fuller's interview with EverQuest Next lead Dave Georgeson, and to me, he seems to be pushing to break out of the combat bind MMOs have stuck themselves into. And he, for one, seems to think that combat doesn't make the game but social interaction does.

And he's got my attention, that's for sure.

 

And here's me thinking they were having a laugh with these anti-gameaddiction messages during the loading screens of some MMO's. Take a break and go out with your real friends!

WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.

Currently playing GW2.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2510

3/28/13 9:44:08 AM#35
Dying? They're stone dead. They've been dead for a solid 8 years now. 
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2366

World > Quest Progression

3/28/13 10:33:11 AM#36
I think it's naturally splitting to accommodate it's playerbase. In one direction you'll have simpler games that are quick fun and one can jump in and out of. In another you will have throwbacks where a game is deep with a strong in game community. Lastly you will still have a few titles that are a refined version of what we mostly have now.

In this respect I think the options will be better. While the options will not make every single MMO gamer happy, nothing can do that, there will certainly be something for almost everyone.
  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

3/28/13 10:56:08 AM#37
Originally posted by almalexius
Originally posted by Nikopol
Originally posted by almalexius
Ow come on that is complete rubbish. You are not in there to communicate are you? I'm in there to play a game so the comparison with some of those communities makes no sense at all.

Maybe you are not, but believe it or not, a lot of people are in there to communicate. I'd even say without these people the MMORPG as a genre would not take root in the first place, as multiplayer games like Quake would suffice.

....

 

And here's me thinking they were having a laugh with these anti-gameaddiction messages during the loading screens of some MMO's. Take a break and go out with your real friends!

Well, now isn't that a pretty clueless thing to say. Stereotyping is just assuming you're pretty knowledgeable about people and cultures, whereas in my opinion it usually stems from lack of enough knowledge or experience.

First, where I live, I've never even seen one of these fabled "basement dwelling MMO addicts", let alone be one of them (well, maybe because we just have condos here, so no basements, haha). 

Second, playing MMOs with friends doesn't impact your real life activity if you don't let it. To us it was just an excuse to do something together online and yet another conversation topic when we got to meet out. :) And we still played the game for the social side of it - without the interaction, it was meaningless to us. 

So we'd meet out, and we'd meet online. 

Yeah, I know - impossibiru!! :P

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19467

3/28/13 10:59:11 AM#38
Originally posted by CalmOceans

 

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

So this is a MMO definition thread? Again?

Guess MMOs are no longer MMOs for you ... so are you moving on and do something else?

Personally i think they are fun games. And like you said, they are selling well .. so obviously not "dying" in any sense of the word.

May be you should use the word "change" instead of "die".

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5506

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/28/13 11:20:04 AM#39

OP is wrong, OP's premise is wrong and using statements like "true X" or "real Y" never does any good for the discussion.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19467

3/28/13 11:47:22 AM#40
Originally posted by Quirhid

OP is wrong, OP's premise is wrong and using statements like "true X" or "real Y" never does any good for the discussion.

yeh .. there is no "true" MMO. It is just a label.

WOW is a good game for many. I get it that the OP does not like it .. but so ... games cannot please everyone.

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