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244 posts found
  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

 
OP  3/26/13 4:54:41 AM#1

Having watched the PAX discussion by MMORPG, i'm feeling quite happy about the future of MMO's, as it looks as though developers are embracing the idea of the sandbox for its freedom and player created content, rather than the scripted path of the themepark.

Watch it here. http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/3005

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

3/26/13 5:21:20 AM#2
if nothing else it's good to see that the "Let's copy WoW and get 10 million subs!" meme is dying.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

3/26/13 5:22:07 AM#3
Originally posted by SysFail

Having watched the PAX discussion by MMORPG, i'm feeling quite happy about the future of MMO's, as it looks as though developers are embracing the idea of the sandbox for its freedom and player created content, rather than the scripted path of the themepark.

Watch it here. http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/3005

 

Indeed and though I enjoy playing themepark games the thing that bugs me the most is the scripted part.  Most of the game is prewritten and designed before we even play it just like SP games are.  Having an online space with many others can be taken better advantage of if player created content and freedom of play are there.

 

I think EQN will hit the nail on the head and surprise many with a real third generation MMO.  We'll see August 1st.

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

 
OP  3/26/13 5:37:10 AM#4
 Originally posted by Aelious
I think EQN will hit the nail on the head and surprise many with a real third generation MMO.  We'll see August 1st.

I'm also interested see what they have install with EQN, everything i'm hearing is sounding good, bring on August.

 

I really liked hearing the EQ and Star citizen guys, when said they're in favour of players growing into their characters, rather than having to create a new character to fullfill a role.

This was really how it was for me in my first MMO, i had a character that over years evolved as I did, classes have always felt more of a prison, rather than freedom of choice to me.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/26/13 5:46:08 AM#5

The real visionary on this panel is Chris Roberts. Then the EQ Next guy (forgot his name).

Roberts is not bound to the old and stale MMO ideology and terminology. All the others seem to rehash old concepts (again with the exception of EQ Next, but let´s see how it turns out)

Too bad no one from CCP was there talking about World of Darkness. Could have replaced that GW2 guy.

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/26/13 5:46:24 AM#6
You talk like player created content is good.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/26/13 5:55:43 AM#7
Originally posted by Quirhid
You talk like player created content is good.

[mod edit]. And player created content I am willign to give a shot. Can't be any worse than what these current dev's called content.

 

Hope sandboxes get bigger on a side note.

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 897

There's some lovely filth down here.

3/26/13 5:57:37 AM#8
Good to know that the Rise of the 'Box is imminent.  In a few more years, I might actually have enough time to really delve into them...
  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

 
OP  3/26/13 6:05:01 AM#9
Originally posted by FromHell

The real visionary on this panel is Chris Roberts. Then the EQ Next guy (forgot his name).

Roberts is not bound to the old and stale MMO ideology and terminology. All the others seem to rehash old concepts (again with the exception of EQ Next, but let´s see how it turns out)

Too bad no one from CCP was there talking about World of Darkness. Could have replaced that GW2 guy.

 

I felt a bit sorry for the GW2 fella, he got old schooled when he spoke about classes by Chris Roberts.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2639

3/26/13 6:07:32 AM#10
Originally posted by Quirhid
You talk like player created content is good.

The idea is though that while not all player created content will be good, it will be more varied. That allows for things to exist which may only appeal to a few as well as things that appeal to many to all coexist together in one game. It also allows for those few ideas which are really great to actually exist in the game rather than all content being driven and decided on by a couple of out of touch devs who can only come up with the same old rehashed content over and over and no original thought whatsoever.

Think of it like this. Would you rather live in a world where all games are made by small indie teams creating games which, while not extremely well coded and polished, are at least very unique and entertaining. Or would you rather live in a world where a single company has a monopoly on all gaming and while they have expert coders and polished products, have the same repetitive ideas for every game and never create anything unique?

  benseine

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 243

3/26/13 6:23:07 AM#11
Originally posted by SysFail

Having watched the PAX discussion by MMORPG, i'm feeling quite happy about the future of MMO's, as it looks as though developers are embracing the idea of the sandbox for its freedom and player created content, rather than the scripted path of the themepark.

Watch it here. http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/3005

finally, bye bye themepark.

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/26/13 7:46:58 AM#12
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by Quirhid
You talk like player created content is good.

The idea is though that while not all player created content will be good, it will be more varied. That allows for things to exist which may only appeal to a few as well as things that appeal to many to all coexist together in one game. It also allows for those few ideas which are really great to actually exist in the game rather than all content being driven and decided on by a couple of out of touch devs who can only come up with the same old rehashed content over and over and no original thought whatsoever.

Think of it like this. Would you rather live in a world where all games are made by small indie teams creating games which, while not extremely well coded and polished, are at least very unique and entertaining. Or would you rather live in a world where a single company has a monopoly on all gaming and while they have expert coders and polished products, have the same repetitive ideas for every game and never create anything unique?

I admire your optimism, but overwhelming majority of player-made content is trash. Developer-made content is consistent and generally well-made. That is what you pay for. But you talk like devs can't make good content when there's plenty of examples to the contrary.

Same ideas have been around for about 10 years now. It doesn't mean there hasn't been any development or innovation. Most of the bittervets just deny any change, but that's just them - they think every game is a WoW clone, if its not a sandbox. Do you count yourself among them?

If anything, I suspect this change, if there even is one, is an effort to make players play longer without adding too much expensive content. Likely it wont be the revolution many here wish it to be. Its not like sandboxes are not known to rehash old ideas just like the next game.

I want to see new games, with new ideas. What I don't want to see is resurrecting old ones used the same way they were used 10 years ago and calling it "new". I was there 10 years ago and I didn't like it then. Likely I won't like it now either although they might have learned a thing or two over the years.

A "gamey sandbox" could do pretty well, but not the kind of "virtual world" some posters here expect - certainly it wouldn't enjoy the same sort of success WoW had. All I'm saying is that there could be a valuable niche out there - just not as massive as some people might think.

And it doesn't mean themeparks are going to die or anything either.

TL;DR: Hold your horses.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

 
OP  3/26/13 8:43:38 AM#13
Originally posted by Quirhid
A "gamey sandbox" could do pretty well, but not the kind of "virtual world" some posters here expect - certainly it wouldn't enjoy the same sort of success WoW had. All I'm saying is that there could be a valuable niche out there - just not as massive as some people might think.

A virtual world will do poorly because?

As for WoW, that game hit the scene at the right moment, a time when PC's in the homes was rapidly growing. It was a case of the right place at the right time and the clones that have tried to emulate its formula since haven't even come close to repeating that feat, which further suggests a fluke.

As for everyone either saying sandbox titles will be a hit or just a niche is merely conjecture at present, but we finally have several quality sandbox titles being developed, which is great to see and will finally put to bed the argument.

The greatest thing I see about the upcoming sandbox's personally, is that there is a generation that has only had WoW and the like to base their MMO experiences on, but now with big studio's heading down the sandbox route, they will soon get to taste well funded sandbox enviroments for themselves.

  laokoko

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1895

3/26/13 9:28:51 AM#14

I dont' really remember the word from the video, but something like if the designer can solve that problem, they could make trillions.

The idea of sandbox is great, just that not much people have manage to get it working.  Getting it to work is the tricky part.  I know there are games such as dayz or minecraft, but those have player managed server.  When you just have 1 standard server, some of those freedom is taking away because many player conflict with another player.

And the term sandbox is kind of weird.  Because there is a scale of how sandbox the game is.  I remember playing fallen earth and everyone call that a sandbox game which I can't understand why.  Because that is as themepark as any themepark I ever played.  So even if designer are heading toward the direction of player generated content, it depend how far they go.

And "usually" they can just rename sandbox to FFA pvp mmorpg since that's pretty much how the sandbox genre was and is now.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

3/26/13 10:00:05 AM#15
What matters more, that I think someone's UGC is good or that the game enables players to build it? I'd say the latter and unless you're building things brick by brick I can't see how an open world sandbox could really be such a detriment that having UGC is a bad idea. If anyone has an example I'd like to hear it.

In the case of say, EQN, I doubt it will have no designed content or story. The idea is that if you augment developer content with UGC then your game will give players that much more to do, which last time I checked was a good thing.

It's all good though, I don't care what anyone else plays. If it's as good as I think it will be I'll be playing EQN for the foreseeable future :)
  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

3/26/13 10:22:38 AM#16
Originally posted by Quirhid

I admire your optimism, but overwhelming majority of player-made content is trash. Developer-made content is consistent and generally well-made. That is what you pay for. But you talk like devs can't make good content when there's plenty of examples to the contrary.

In my eyes, the problem is not who makes the content, it's the entire mindset that content is something that is made by design.
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

3/26/13 10:32:42 AM#17

UGC is great to have in augmenting content made by the designers. I think that having just one or the other is too limiting. If player content is generally lower quality, the contrast serves the official content in a positive way while still giving players the feel of adding to the world.

The psychology of that organism playing the game should not be forsaken, designers. I think the game makers get in their echo chamber and produce self-important pieces of garbage like SWTOR. Games designed by game designers for game designers are a waste of time.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

3/26/13 10:32:44 AM#18
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by Quirhid
You talk like player created content is good.

The idea is though that while not all player created content will be good, it will be more varied. That allows for things to exist which may only appeal to a few as well as things that appeal to many to all coexist together in one game. It also allows for those few ideas which are really great to actually exist in the game rather than all content being driven and decided on by a couple of out of touch devs who can only come up with the same old rehashed content over and over and no original thought whatsoever.

Think of it like this. Would you rather live in a world where all games are made by small indie teams creating games which, while not extremely well coded and polished, are at least very unique and entertaining. Or would you rather live in a world where a single company has a monopoly on all gaming and while they have expert coders and polished products, have the same repetitive ideas for every game and never create anything unique?

Varied != good/fun to play.

I played the original NWN which allows for player created modules. I tried SC2 player generated stuff. I tried Dungeon Siege mods. 99.9% of the stuff is crap.

And yes, i would like to live in a world where games are entertaining .. but user genereated stuff .. more often is not.

The best world is a lot of professionals. And don't tell me big companies don't create good new IP. The first Dead Space is great. The first Bioshock is great. This new one looks good.

And sometimes even rehash is better than 99.9% of the amateur stuff out there.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

3/26/13 10:33:37 AM#19
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Quirhid

I admire your optimism, but overwhelming majority of player-made content is trash. Developer-made content is consistent and generally well-made. That is what you pay for. But you talk like devs can't make good content when there's plenty of examples to the contrary.

In my eyes, the problem is not who makes the content, it's the entire mindset that content is something that is made by design.

i don't see a problem. There is fun content. There is non-fun content.

User-generated content ... from what i have seen .. 99.9% are non-fun to me. Very simple.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1796

3/26/13 10:35:25 AM#20

I have no problem with theme park games. Level through quests, be a capped out warrior, you start another character. It's why those games give you 7 character slots.

I'd just like an option to not need to grind quests, not be cookie cutter. 500 skill points, you build a template, try another one, try another. Use open world content. What's the point in having world mobs in a theme park?

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