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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Hero Engine 2 $99/year ~ Indy MMOs

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149 posts found
  User Deleted
12/06/12 12:03:51 AM#21

Before everyone gets all excited about this, keep in mind that the Hero Engine is not at all designed for "open world" gameplay.  It's more like GW2 design, where you have some decent zone sizes conencted with loading screens.

Also, the $99 a year is a great place to start, but there are some pretty hefty licensing fee's if your game ever goes live, and charges people.  Something like 35% of all profits go directly to them, if I remember.

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

12/06/12 12:53:29 AM#22
Originally posted by asmkm22

Before everyone gets all excited about this, keep in mind that the Hero Engine is not at all designed for "open world" gameplay.  It's more like GW2 design, where you have some decent zone sizes conencted with loading screens.

Also, the $99 a year is a great place to start, but there are some pretty hefty licensing fee's if your game ever goes live, and charges people.  Something like 35% of all profits go directly to them, if I remember.

oh wow might as well just use UDK (powered by unreal engine 3). its free until you make 50k and then you have to give them 30% of how much you make.

both very expensive but at least unreal engine 3 is known to be a good performer

  Suraknar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

12/06/12 1:54:43 AM#23

I think this is a very good thread.

While making an MMO is indeed a quite complex endeavor I think Off the shelf engines can at least help many to get a clear idea or what is involved. And you never know who can come up with some good ideas in the process and why not even a game or two.

Plenty of people have good ideas, but othen no guidance on how to make them a reality, and off the shelf engines can help in giving thet guidance, even if it does not pan out, at these prices it is accessible even for experimenting, learning, getting some experience. Worse case scenario you will make nothing with it, moderate case scenario a nice single player game can come out of it, a better case a small MMO, or as the OP states, a Proptotype for a trylly great MMO.

There are many engines out there but this is a list from Gamasutra:

Torque Game Builder, Garage Games
Valve Source Engine, Valve
Unreal Engine, Epic
HeroEngine, Simutronics Corporation
Gamebryo, Emergent

You can look them up.

None of this can be negative for anyone, it is but positive, and like it happened in so many other fields, success is not bound by only One way of doing things.

Cheers!

 

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/06/12 2:31:09 AM#24

The Repopulation is working with Hero.  I'm curious to see how they do with it.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

12/06/12 2:40:55 AM#25
Originally posted by bishbosh

I have researched quite a few game engines because i am currently looking into making my own casual multiplayer game. hero engine is basically a toy to play around with for people who arent really serious about making games for money.

high quality large scale mmorpgs/games do not work well with one solution fits all stuff like hero engine. im sorry but thats the way it is. 

hero engine uses some weird hero script which probably doesnt give the developer much control over anything and it probably runs slow as shit. 

the whole hero cloud server crap is bullshit. no decent mmorpg or online game will run on servers which they have little control over. 

if the developer doesnt have control over server-client interaction and the mulitplayer code, developer cannot guarantee stability, no hacks , no lag etcc etc

 

if you want to make a big huge mmorpg, you probably cant . stop dreaming.... you would need to build your own complex game engine or pay $500k-$1000k for a proprietary game engine which you would then heavily modify...

 

if you are making a smaller game make your own primittive game engine or use unity3d

 

mmorpgs are a big thing and you need large amounts of capital, experience, skills and manpower to make them.

oH REALLY!  I have my degree in Game design and work as a Dev this is a total  lie, there are plenty of games out there that use Hero and alot of the other Known engines.

 

If you write your own ENGINE great but your a fool,  Most that do fail , they spend to much money on building it and time and then its out of date, if its small scale great go for it. But the way the industry is going, soon you will barely need programmers.... Heck now you barely do besides for Networking and some advance AI, etc..... By the way Programming and Scripting are two different things.....you can get alot more work done at a faster rate with the current Engines, I have worked With Hero, UDK, Unreal there is a difference, Unity , Cry 2 and 3. Plus many many more, to sit there and say this to funny, right now I work with a company that uses Hero and its an MMo. Do your research and you will know which ones use it....

 

Unity also can make a MMo and do fine, its great for IOS and such but just as good with Mmo's heck Unreal can do MMo's it can be done and has, I would not advise it since there are better ones for MMo's Hero being one, but its a great engine.

 

Funny post, I love when gamers think... They know about Game Design when they have no clue..

 

@ XapGames  your SIg  is so true... But I'm more on the Artside , but I code , Script as well... But I do more art work then anything, I do know C#, C++  Java, FLASH, LUA, a few others, but I'm an Environment Artist, Texture artist .   I do alot  of free lance work to.. of Modeling etc...

 

 

PS: Repopulation  is doing great

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

12/06/12 3:08:01 AM#26
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by bishbosh

I have researched quite a few game engines because i am currently looking into making my own casual multiplayer game. hero engine is basically a toy to play around with for people who arent really serious about making games for money.

high quality large scale mmorpgs/games do not work well with one solution fits all stuff like hero engine. im sorry but thats the way it is. 

hero engine uses some weird hero script which probably doesnt give the developer much control over anything and it probably runs slow as shit. 

the whole hero cloud server crap is bullshit. no decent mmorpg or online game will run on servers which they have little control over. 

if the developer doesnt have control over server-client interaction and the mulitplayer code, developer cannot guarantee stability, no hacks , no lag etcc etc

 

if you want to make a big huge mmorpg, you probably cant . stop dreaming.... you would need to build your own complex game engine or pay $500k-$1000k for a proprietary game engine which you would then heavily modify...

 

if you are making a smaller game make your own primittive game engine or use unity3d

 

mmorpgs are a big thing and you need large amounts of capital, experience, skills and manpower to make them.

oH REALLY!  I have my degree in Game design and work as a Dev this is a total  lie, there are plenty of games out there that use Hero and alot of the other Known engines.

 

If you write your own ENGINE great but your a fool,  Most that do fail , they spend to much money on building it and time and then its out of date, if its small scale great go for it. But the way the industry is going, soon you will barely need programmers.... Heck now you barely do besides for Networking and some advance AI, etc..... By the way Programming and Scripting are two different things.....you can get alot more work done at a faster rate with the current Engines, I have worked With Hero, UDK, Unreal there is a difference, Unity , Cry 2 and 3. Plus many many more, to sit there and say this to funny, right now I work with a company that uses Hero and its an MMo. Do your research and you will know which ones use it....

 

Unity also can make a MMo and do fine, its great for IOS and such but just as good with Mmo's heck Unreal can do MMo's it can be done and has, I would not advise it since there are better ones for MMo's Hero being one, but its a great engine.

 

Funny post, I love when gamers think... They know about Game Design when they have no clue..

a degree in game design? is that even a real degree? sorry but respectable universaties dont offer game design degrees...btw im going into my final year of an engineering degree (a proper real mans degree with maths and technology, not some painting arts crap which your can learn on youtube) 

$50 your mmo will fail or it wont even come into frution. im guessing your company is a bunch of friends and you guys think you can make a mmo. good luck with that. 

you are clearly biased as you are already locked into development with hero engine. has repopulation even been released? 

writing your own engine is foolish? this is the most dumb thing i have heard. how about you have a look at what happens in the real world. most big games have been built of in house engines custom made for that game. diablo, starcraft, warcraft, WoW, gw2, battlefield, CoD, halflife even indie games such as minecraft have their own custom engine. wtf are you smoking? 

no serious mmorpg dev or businessman will use these hobby toy engines.

1. first of all UDK/hero engine ask for ~30% of your profits.... that is a huge amount of money. get a proprietary license and pay the ~ < $1 mil fee once off and get access to source code etc etc (i would buy unreal over hero ; track record, superior tech etc)

2. without access to source code you wont have much control over how the game engine works and your game will suck

 

  Hedake

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/12
Posts: 13

12/06/12 6:15:48 AM#27

Edit: Good Lord the WoT bug got me, TL;DR version: Its a good engine to learn game building, use Unity or Unreal if you want to market and sell your game.

 

If you want to learn how to build a game its probably one of the best engines to learn how to build a game on. It can still do things in development that other engines just dont do effectively. If you want to make a comercially viable game its not a great engine. Here's why from my experience. Simutronics/HeroEngine/IdeaFabrik never built a game with their own engine. They started but never finished it. This never gave them real world experience (as a company) to be able to know how to develop updates, market and support clients using their engine. Unreal has this and is able to support their customers with real examples of how to overcome a multiude of developer issues that devs may not know will come up. Early on, Bioware took the Hero engine from Simutronics and the two companies went separate ways. This hurt HeroEngine substantially in that their brand was married to a early version of their engine that was just a shell of what it is now. What Bioware did with it and the SWTOR outcome is on Bioware IMO, not on HeroEngine. The outcome for Hero was that they had no idea the issues that real devs experience with their engine but alot of bad press. It was a bad business move in my opinion to give away untested tech and not partner with a developer.

 

In addition to that, their relationship with many of their devs had been advesarial early on. Rather than work with their devs over the past 4 years they were largely confrontational. They often made code base changes that dramatically affected devs with little or no notice. One example is some time in early 2011 they changed the memory management of the engine as they transitioned from a engine focused on MMO's to an engine focused on "cloud" games. I dont know why they did this other than that cloud games have a smaller footprint than MMO's (larger client based MMO's like SWTOR et al, not web games with a 1GB client) and they would not need to dump the memory on the same scale. This would allow smaller games to have an unending feel if developed correctly. Prior to this change the engine would dump memory (similar to what wow/gw does) for zones that you are no longer in. This prevents the RAM from getting loaded and crashing the game. If you want to see what I mean load your favorite MMO and look at the memory performance. It should go up and down as you load unload areas. After the change the engine didnt dump memory effectively. It just kept loading and loading til crash.

 

As the MMO market dried up, HeroEngine pretty much all but abandoned the previous MMO Engine design (larger games) and started to move to support cloud/mobile gaming. At the same time, as Unreal wanted to stem the Unity tide (which was making inroads in mobile and 3D gaming) Unreal released a 30% revenue share, develop for free to start model. Hero followed with the same thing. Unfortunately for Hero, they didnt have the knowledge/examples of making a game, marketing a game, and supporting a game with their engine like Unreal does. You can do the $99 thing with Unreal with no royalty for the first 50k or so, then its like 25% after. Unreal and Unity both have many successful titles that make them very viable to actually get your game out there and sold.

 

Unreal and Unity both offer many additional support options for Graphics, AI, systems, code optimization and tech support that Hero just doesnt have the resources to match. Hero Engine is very easy to use, the coding isnt simple or optimal but managable. But if you really want to get your game out the door, you may want to start with another engine. I am currently using Unity as Unreal is more of a cannon and I dont really need that firepower for what I want to do now. Sorry for the reality check, just my two pennies.

 

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

12/06/12 12:11:47 PM#28
Originally posted by bishbosh
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by bishbosh

I have researched quite a few game engines because i am currently looking into making my own casual multiplayer game. hero engine is basically a toy to play around with for people who arent really serious about making games for money.

high quality large scale mmorpgs/games do not work well with one solution fits all stuff like hero engine. im sorry but thats the way it is. 

hero engine uses some weird hero script which probably doesnt give the developer much control over anything and it probably runs slow as shit. 

the whole hero cloud server crap is bullshit. no decent mmorpg or online game will run on servers which they have little control over. 

if the developer doesnt have control over server-client interaction and the mulitplayer code, developer cannot guarantee stability, no hacks , no lag etcc etc

 

if you want to make a big huge mmorpg, you probably cant . stop dreaming.... you would need to build your own complex game engine or pay $500k-$1000k for a proprietary game engine which you would then heavily modify...

 

if you are making a smaller game make your own primittive game engine or use unity3d

 

mmorpgs are a big thing and you need large amounts of capital, experience, skills and manpower to make them.

oH REALLY!  I have my degree in Game design and work as a Dev this is a total  lie, there are plenty of games out there that use Hero and alot of the other Known engines.

 

If you write your own ENGINE great but your a fool,  Most that do fail , they spend to much money on building it and time and then its out of date, if its small scale great go for it. But the way the industry is going, soon you will barely need programmers.... Heck now you barely do besides for Networking and some advance AI, etc..... By the way Programming and Scripting are two different things.....you can get alot more work done at a faster rate with the current Engines, I have worked With Hero, UDK, Unreal there is a difference, Unity , Cry 2 and 3. Plus many many more, to sit there and say this to funny, right now I work with a company that uses Hero and its an MMo. Do your research and you will know which ones use it....

 

Unity also can make a MMo and do fine, its great for IOS and such but just as good with Mmo's heck Unreal can do MMo's it can be done and has, I would not advise it since there are better ones for MMo's Hero being one, but its a great engine.

 

Funny post, I love when gamers think... They know about Game Design when they have no clue..

a degree in game design? is that even a real degree? sorry but respectable universaties dont offer game design degrees...btw im going into my final year of an engineering degree (a proper real mans degree with maths and technology, not some painting arts crap which your can learn on youtube) 

$50 your mmo will fail or it wont even come into frution. im guessing your company is a bunch of friends and you guys think you can make a mmo. good luck with that. 

you are clearly biased as you are already locked into development with hero engine. has repopulation even been released? 

writing your own engine is foolish? this is the most dumb thing i have heard. how about you have a look at what happens in the real world. most big games have been built of in house engines custom made for that game. diablo, starcraft, warcraft, WoW, gw2, battlefield, CoD, halflife even indie games such as minecraft have their own custom engine. wtf are you smoking? 

no serious mmorpg dev or businessman will use these hobby toy engines.

1. first of all UDK/hero engine ask for ~30% of your profits.... that is a huge amount of money. get a proprietary license and pay the ~ < $1 mil fee once off and get access to source code etc etc (i would buy unreal over hero ; track record, superior tech etc)

2. without access to source code you wont have much control over how the game engine works and your game will suck

 

I'm sorry, but you're going to talk about how much you know about game development, then in the same statement recommend Unreal for an mmo?

Now you've gone and lost the plot. Unreal is NOT a good engine for mmos.

You cannot make large open spaces without sufering instability, and it cannot handle large amounts of people online at the same time.

See APB for an example of an Unreal mmo. Even better, see Mortal Online.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13806

12/06/12 12:13:21 PM#29
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by bishbosh

I have researched quite a few game engines because i am currently looking into making my own casual multiplayer game. hero engine is basically a toy to play around with for people who arent really serious about making games for money.

high quality large scale mmorpgs/games do not work well with one solution fits all stuff like hero engine. im sorry but thats the way it is. 

hero engine uses some weird hero script which probably doesnt give the developer much control over anything and it probably runs slow as shit. 

the whole hero cloud server crap is bullshit. no decent mmorpg or online game will run on servers which they have little control over. 

if the developer doesnt have control over server-client interaction and the mulitplayer code, developer cannot guarantee stability, no hacks , no lag etcc etc

 

if you want to make a big huge mmorpg, you probably cant . stop dreaming.... you would need to build your own complex game engine or pay $500k-$1000k for a proprietary game engine which you would then heavily modify...

 

if you are making a smaller game make your own primittive game engine or use unity3d

 

mmorpgs are a big thing and you need large amounts of capital, experience, skills and manpower to make them.

oH REALLY!  I have my degree in Game design and work as a Dev this is a total  lie, there are plenty of games out there that use Hero and alot of the other Known engines.

 

If you write your own ENGINE great but your a fool,  Most that do fail , they spend to much money on building it and time and then its out of date, if its small scale great go for it. But the way the industry is going, soon you will barely need programmers.... Heck now you barely do besides for Networking and some advance AI, etc..... By the way Programming and Scripting are two different things.....you can get alot more work done at a faster rate with the current Engines, I have worked With Hero, UDK, Unreal there is a difference, Unity , Cry 2 and 3. Plus many many more, to sit there and say this to funny, right now I work with a company that uses Hero and its an MMo. Do your research and you will know which ones use it....

 

Unity also can make a MMo and do fine, its great for IOS and such but just as good with Mmo's heck Unreal can do MMo's it can be done and has, I would not advise it since there are better ones for MMo's Hero being one, but its a great engine.

 

Funny post, I love when gamers think... They know about Game Design when they have no clue..

 

@ XapGames  your SIg  is so true... But I'm more on the Artside , but I code , Script as well... But I do more art work then anything, I do know C#, C++  Java, FLASH, LUA, a few others, but I'm an Environment Artist, Texture artist .   I do alot  of free lance work to.. of Modeling etc...

 

 

PS: Repopulation  is doing great

So let me get this straight.  The problem with writing your own game engine is that it will be outdated?  But if you use the DirectX 9.0c Hero Engine (welcome to 2005!), that's not outdated?  Does Hero Engine offer support for a bunch of custom effects done through geometry shaders?  How about extensive use of tessellation?  Post-processing effects done via framebuffer objects, or whatever the DirectX equivalent is?  If not, then it doesn't support modern computer graphics, period.

The problem isn't just the DirectX version.  It's what you do with it that matters.  If you ostensibly use DirectX 11, but don't do anything with it that couldn't be done just as well in DirectX 9.0c, then you're not doing modern computer graphics.  Now, there is a fair bit that you can do with older APIs, such as every game ever made before 2007, and a lot of the ones made since then.  Using outdated graphics methods isn't the kiss of death for a game.  But trying to keep up to date is hardly an argument for using the Hero Engine.

I wanted to create a seamless, round world.  Can I do that with Hero Engine, or any other off-the-shelf game engine, for that matter?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to use tessellation very extensively, to the extent that turning tessellation "off" is logical nonsense apart from surfaces that are supposed to appear completely flat.  Can I do that and still draw whatever shapes I want with Hero Engine or any other off-the-shelf game engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to have many thousands of trees in my game world, and make every single tree look different from every other.  Can I do that with the Hero Engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  There's a bunch of other stuff that I want to do that you've likely never seen, but I'd have no hope of shoehorning it into Hero Engine.  And I'm pretty sure that I can do a lot of it, though perhaps I shouldn't talk too much while it's still "I think I can" as opposed to "I have done."

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

12/06/12 12:18:24 PM#30
People can only go by what they have seen so far fromt he HeroEngine and that means judging it on Warhammer Online,SW:TOR and Faxion OnLine all of which have suffered form poor optimization/performance and constant breaking after patches.
  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/06/12 12:48:26 PM#31


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by bishbosh I have researched quite a few game engines because i am currently looking into making my own casual multiplayer game. hero engine is basically a toy to play around with for people who arent really serious about making games for money. high quality large scale mmorpgs/games do not work well with one solution fits all stuff like hero engine. im sorry but thats the way it is.  hero engine uses some weird hero script which probably doesnt give the developer much control over anything and it probably runs slow as shit.  the whole hero cloud server crap is bullshit. no decent mmorpg or online game will run on servers which they have little control over.  if the developer doesnt have control over server-client interaction and the mulitplayer code, developer cannot guarantee stability, no hacks , no lag etcc etc   if you want to make a big huge mmorpg, you probably cant . stop dreaming.... you would need to build your own complex game engine or pay $500k-$1000k for a proprietary game engine which you would then heavily modify...   if you are making a smaller game make your own primittive game engine or use unity3d   mmorpgs are a big thing and you need large amounts of capital, experience, skills and manpower to make them.
oH REALLY!  I have my degree in Game design and work as a Dev this is a total  lie, there are plenty of games out there that use Hero and alot of the other Known engines.   If you write your own ENGINE great but your a fool,  Most that do fail , they spend to much money on building it and time and then its out of date, if its small scale great go for it. But the way the industry is going, soon you will barely need programmers.... Heck now you barely do besides for Networking and some advance AI, etc..... By the way Programming and Scripting are two different things.....you can get alot more work done at a faster rate with the current Engines, I have worked With Hero, UDK, Unreal there is a difference, Unity , Cry 2 and 3. Plus many many more, to sit there and say this to funny, right now I work with a company that uses Hero and its an MMo. Do your research and you will know which ones use it....   Unity also can make a MMo and do fine, its great for IOS and such but just as good with Mmo's heck Unreal can do MMo's it can be done and has, I would not advise it since there are better ones for MMo's Hero being one, but its a great engine.   Funny post, I love when gamers think... They know about Game Design when they have no clue..   @ XapGames  your SIg  is so true... But I'm more on the Artside , but I code , Script as well... But I do more art work then anything, I do know C#, C++  Java, FLASH, LUA, a few others, but I'm an Environment Artist, Texture artist .   I do alot  of free lance work to.. of Modeling etc...     PS: Repopulation  is doing great
So let me get this straight.  The problem with writing your own game engine is that it will be outdated?  But if you use the DirectX 9.0c Hero Engine (welcome to 2005!), that's not outdated?  Does Hero Engine offer support for a bunch of custom effects done through geometry shaders?  How about extensive use of tessellation?  Post-processing effects done via framebuffer objects, or whatever the DirectX equivalent is?  If not, then it doesn't support modern computer graphics, period.

The problem isn't just the DirectX version.  It's what you do with it that matters.  If you ostensibly use DirectX 11, but don't do anything with it that couldn't be done just as well in DirectX 9.0c, then you're not doing modern computer graphics.  Now, there is a fair bit that you can do with older APIs, such as every game ever made before 2007, and a lot of the ones made since then.  Using outdated graphics methods isn't the kiss of death for a game.  But trying to keep up to date is hardly an argument for using the Hero Engine.

I wanted to create a seamless, round world.  Can I do that with Hero Engine, or any other off-the-shelf game engine, for that matter?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to use tessellation very extensively, to the extent that turning tessellation "off" is logical nonsense apart from surfaces that are supposed to appear completely flat.  Can I do that and still draw whatever shapes I want with Hero Engine or any other off-the-shelf game engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to have many thousands of trees in my game world, and make every single tree look different from every other.  Can I do that with the Hero Engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  There's a bunch of other stuff that I want to do that you've likely never seen, but I'd have no hope of shoehorning it into Hero Engine.  And I'm pretty sure that I can do a lot of it, though perhaps I shouldn't talk too much while it's still "I think I can" as opposed to "I have done."




Round as in sphere or round as in a cylinder? How big was it? Did you write in some sort of gravity effect changing where 'down' was? Just curious.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/06/12 12:53:33 PM#32
Originally posted by Drakynn
People can only go by what they have seen so far fromt he HeroEngine and that means judging it on Warhammer Online,SW:TOR and Faxion OnLine all of which have suffered form poor optimization/performance and constant breaking after patches.

Our homegrown local lifetime pursuit HE hater hasn't even shown up in the thread yet.

Ah, we're not in the swtor forum, that explains the delay.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 2016

12/06/12 1:04:29 PM#33
Originally posted by Drakynn
People can only go by what they have seen so far fromt he HeroEngine and that means judging it on Warhammer Online,SW:TOR and Faxion OnLine all of which have suffered form poor optimization/performance and constant breaking after patches.

 Warhammer didn't use the hero engine.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

12/06/12 1:09:53 PM#34
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Drakynn
People can only go by what they have seen so far fromt he HeroEngine and that means judging it on Warhammer Online,SW:TOR and Faxion OnLine all of which have suffered form poor optimization/performance and constant breaking after patches.

 Warhammer didn't use the hero engine.

I stand corrected I guess I thoguht it did coz the graphic performance and look was similar but it did indeed use the gamebryo engine.

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

12/06/12 1:19:52 PM#35

 Not to be contrary for the sake of it,  but given my lack of knowledge on developing games , much less an Mmo , from what I've gleaned from this thread do we really want more half-assed Indie mmo teams? I fully believe innovation will start with our Indie developers , but in the last few years I've spent alot of money "supporting" new Indie developers who are trying to make an Mmo. Every one of those developers has disappointed me, they don't seem to understand what they are getting into. ( Granted nor do I ) I say this rhetorically, Do we as the market want to invest our money on studio's utilizing "off the shelf" ( as one poster called it) engines? The market used to be saturated with large studio clones, now it seems its filling to the brim with Indie studio's who are cashing in on our desire for something different, and ontop of that these "off the shelf" engines are simply opening the door wider. The alternatives are to not support any titles, or those from larger studio's with some experience.

Just my thoughts.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13806

12/06/12 1:20:40 PM#36
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

I wanted to create a seamless, round world.  Can I do that with Hero Engine, or any other off-the-shelf game engine, for that matter?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to use tessellation very extensively, to the extent that turning tessellation "off" is logical nonsense apart from surfaces that are supposed to appear completely flat.  Can I do that and still draw whatever shapes I want with Hero Engine or any other off-the-shelf game engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to have many thousands of trees in my game world, and make every single tree look different from every other.  Can I do that with the Hero Engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  There's a bunch of other stuff that I want to do that you've likely never seen, but I'd have no hope of shoehorning it into Hero Engine.  And I'm pretty sure that I can do a lot of it, though perhaps I shouldn't talk too much while it's still "I think I can" as opposed to "I have done."




Round as in sphere or round as in a cylinder? How big was it? Did you write in some sort of gravity effect changing where 'down' was? Just curious.

 

I wanted a sphere, like Earth.  A cylinder is much easier, as that can just be a rectangle where going off of one side brings you back onto the other.  It's about 1 km in radius, and drawn such that locally, it looks flat.  For purposes of internal computations, it's a truncated icosahedron (the iconic soccer ball shape), and when you cross an edge, it "folds" the faces up so that it still looks flat.  And yes, there's massive amounts of fakery done at the vertices to cover up that you "lose" 12 degrees.

Gravity doesn't vary.  The idea is that it's a planet, so gravity always pulls you toward the center of the planet, no matter where you are.  Kind of like on Earth.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

12/06/12 1:24:18 PM#37
I can definitely see this as being a great tool for indie developers and higher learning institutions as well. Would be a great platform to learn how to program. Not to mention the capability for many parties to work together on the same project. I feel like this will bring about some great projects and seems more affordable than some of the alternatives.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13806

12/06/12 1:26:07 PM#38
Originally posted by Redemp

 Not to be contrary for the sake of it,  but given my lack of knowledge on developing games , much less an Mmo , from what I've gleaned from this thread do we really want more half-assed Indie mmo teams? I fully believe innovation will start with our Indie developers , but in the last few years I've spent alot of money "supporting" new Indie developers who are trying to make an Mmo. Every one of those developers has disappointed me, they don't seem to understand what they are getting into. ( Granted nor do I ) I say this rhetorically, Do we as the market want to invest our money on studio's utilizing "off the shelf" ( as one poster called it) engines? The market used to be saturated with large studio clones, now it seems its filling to the brim with Indie studio's who are cashing in on our desire for something different, and ontop of that these "off the shelf" engines are simply opening the door wider. The alternatives are to not support any titles, or those from larger studio's with some experience.

Just my thoughts.

I've had some pretty good experiences with the indie MMOs that I've played (A Tale in the Desert, Puzzle Pirates, Wizard 101, Spiral Knights).  Maybe you're playing the wrong games?

If an indie studio promises that they're going to do anything and everything to create the ultimate game (Project Universe, I'm looking at you), then of course they're not going to deliver.  But if they scale back their ambitions to only doing a few things well--and perhaps things that most MMOs don't do well--that's a lot more doable.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/06/12 1:35:05 PM#39
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

I wanted to create a seamless, round world.  Can I do that with Hero Engine, or any other off-the-shelf game engine, for that matter?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to use tessellation very extensively, to the extent that turning tessellation "off" is logical nonsense apart from surfaces that are supposed to appear completely flat.  Can I do that and still draw whatever shapes I want with Hero Engine or any other off-the-shelf game engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  I wanted to have many thousands of trees in my game world, and make every single tree look different from every other.  Can I do that with the Hero Engine?  By writing my own, I could and did.  There's a bunch of other stuff that I want to do that you've likely never seen, but I'd have no hope of shoehorning it into Hero Engine.  And I'm pretty sure that I can do a lot of it, though perhaps I shouldn't talk too much while it's still "I think I can" as opposed to "I have done."



Round as in sphere or round as in a cylinder? How big was it? Did you write in some sort of gravity effect changing where 'down' was? Just curious.

I wanted a sphere, like Earth.  A cylinder is much easier, as that can just be a rectangle where going off of one side brings you back onto the other.  It's about 1 km in radius, and drawn such that locally, it looks flat.  For purposes of internal computations, it's a truncated icosahedron (the iconic soccer ball shape), and when you cross an edge, it "folds" the faces up so that it still looks flat.  And yes, there's massive amounts of fakery done at the vertices to cover up that you "lose" 12 degrees.

Gravity doesn't vary.  The idea is that it's a planet, so gravity always pulls you toward the center of the planet, no matter where you are.  Kind of like on Earth.

Pretty cool idea. Other than the occasional venture into torus territory (ex:UO), most game maps like you said stick to cylinders. Would be cool to experience an actual round map, especially in an exploration type game.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  theoneandonly

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 103

Life - the one and only MMO. All the rest will FAIL!!!!

12/06/12 1:35:12 PM#40

I dont understend all the programming language that is used in this thread. But to me it looks like the way to rise the profits.

How many people spend $20-50 a month on MMO? How many think that they will create the next WoW? And all they need is $99. Thats very cheap for a dream.

 

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