Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorous

then why are you saying that if a game allows people to solo, they will solo, automatically gimping your ability to group?

 

Have I? 

Yeah. You remember when I said that when many people choose a gamestyle (in this case, solo), devs will start catering more to them? Well, you agreed and said something along the lines of 'then they will make more games like that and less games like the ones i like'. That sort of thing. Also, if everyone in your favourite mmo is now soloing because its more fun and more rewarding, they are not grouping wth you, kinda saying that they prefer to be alone than with you.

Also, there is this:

Originally posted by toddze

I played AoC at launch. technical problems aside. No one grouped in that game. unless they needed something and even then soloing was easier thus no one wanted to group for the harder conent because the rewards were not great enough to that of what you could solo (thats why you cant have both in a game). I consider AoC more of a solo game. I solo'ed 80%. Its extremly hard to group when solo'ing is such a viable option

So you see now why I said what I said. But if I misunderstood you, then by all means, I apologize =D

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen 

Hint: neither group of extremists want "zero" of anything.

Yes, they do.

A group extremist is one who wants a game with zero soloing.
A solo extremist is one who wants a game where everything can be soloed.

That's what makes them extremists.

There are only those kind of people in your imaginary world. It's weird, twisting reality to make your own point seem more valid. Not that I didn't expect it though.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen 

Hint: neither group of extremists want "zero" of anything.

Yes, they do.

A group extremist is one who wants a game with zero soloing.
A solo extremist is one who wants a game where everything can be soloed.

That's what makes them extremists.

 

There are only those kind of people in your imaginary world. It's weird, twisting reality to make your own point seem more valid. Not that I didn't expect it though.

Im neither =D

Originally posted by Archemorou

 

Yeah. You remember when I said that when many people choose a gamestyle (in this case, solo), devs will start catering more to them? Well, you agreed and said something along the lines of 'then they will make more games like that and less games like the ones i like'. That sort of thing. Also, if everyone in your favourite mmo is now soloing because its more fun and more rewarding, they are not grouping wth you, kinda saying that they prefer to be alone than with you.

So you see now why I said what I said. But if I misunderstood you, then by all means, I apologize =D

Just being able to solo won't do that, but when the tip changes towards soloers then everyone solos. If the tip scaled towards grouping, everyone groups. Having solo or grouping feature alone won't do anything, but how it's set up and which playstyle gets more attention from the devs.

Originally posted by toddze

Grouping, raiding, and pvp is not solo play You may not be arguing this but a LOT of the pro-solo people will argue that solo'ers shouldnt have to group/raid for equal gear.

I haven't made that argument.

For me, the gear doesn't matter. My only concern is having fun stuff to do that suits my preferences. I've never been the type to be concerned about epeen in an MMO.

Originally posted by Archemorous

Im neither =D

But you are siding with the non-extreme soloists anyway. I'm not blaming you though, I'm blaming the devs.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Have we forgotten the argument and moved on to witty insults already? Damn, I like long foreplay.

You've been tossing the insults around for the past few pages already. I've been playing nice.

No need for me to resort to a flame war on this one; not when I'm clearly correct. :)

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorou

 

Yeah. You remember when I said that when many people choose a gamestyle (in this case, solo), devs will start catering more to them? Well, you agreed and said something along the lines of 'then they will make more games like that and less games like the ones i like'. That sort of thing. Also, if everyone in your favourite mmo is now soloing because its more fun and more rewarding, they are not grouping wth you, kinda saying that they prefer to be alone than with you.

So you see now why I said what I said. But if I misunderstood you, then by all means, I apologize =D

Just being able to solo won't do that, but when the tip changes towards soloers then everyone solos. If the tip scaled towards grouping, everyone groups. Having solo or grouping feature alone won't do anything, but how it's set up and which playstyle gets more attention from the devs.

No, what having both as viable options will do is that people will choose what is more fun to them, regardless of loot or status. I dont want or need more rewards for my soloing than you for your group content, I dont. But I want some kind of reward. I think thats fair.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen 

Hint: neither group of extremists want "zero" of anything.

Yes, they do.

A group extremist is one who wants a game with zero soloing.
A solo extremist is one who wants a game where everything can be soloed.

That's what makes them extremists.

 

There are only those kind of people in your imaginary world. It's weird, twisting reality to make your own point seem more valid. Not that I didn't expect it though.

So as a player who enjoys grouping and solo play, I must live in an imaginary world as well because I see the same extreme POVs that IIv is mentioning?
 

No one is twisting anything. Look through all the topics on this subject and read through each thread. You will see every extremist view from both sides.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Have we forgotten the argument and moved on to witty insults already? Damn, I like long foreplay.

You've been tossing the insults around for the past few pages already. I've been playing nice.

No need for me to resort to a flame war on this one; not when I'm clearly correct. :)

At least I didn't drop the argument while doing so. Can you prove me wrong or not? 

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorous

Im neither =D

 

But you are siding with the non-extreme soloists anyway. I'm not blaming you though, I'm blaming the devs.

Because they are advocating for choice, and I just dont think you are. Nothing against you, just that. sorry =(

Originally posted by Archemorous

No, what having both as viable options will do is that people will choose what is more fun to them, regardless of loot or status. I dont want or need more rewards for my soloing than you for your group content, I dont. But I want some kind of reward. I think thats fair.

Yeah, if both were viable options. They aren't. One is, one isn't.

Originally posted by Archemorous

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorous

Im neither =D

 

But you are siding with the non-extreme soloists anyway. I'm not blaming you though, I'm blaming the devs.

 

Because they are advocating for choice, and I just dont think you are. Nothing against you, just that. sorry =(

They aren't advocating for choice, they are advocating the playstyle the devs happen to prefer. They are not equal.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorous

No, what having both as viable options will do is that people will choose what is more fun to them, regardless of loot or status. I dont want or need more rewards for my soloing than you for your group content, I dont. But I want some kind of reward. I think thats fair.

 

Yeah, if both were viable options. They aren't. One is, one isn't.

Well, in that case, this is the end of the line for me. This is where we agree to disagree =)

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen 

Hint: neither group of extremists want "zero" of anything.

Yes, they do.

A group extremist is one who wants a game with zero soloing.
A solo extremist is one who wants a game where everything can be soloed.

That's what makes them extremists.

There are only those kind of people in your imaginary world. It's weird, twisting reality to make your own point seem more valid. Not that I didn't expect it though.

Yeah, you might wanna pay a bit more attention to the group vs solo threads of recent history. There are a lot of extremists around. You haven't actually stated your own preferences in this debate yet, (being seemingly content to disagree with other peoples) but my instinct is that you belong to the group extremist crowd who believes that the only way a game can cater to a group playstyle is to remove the option of viable solo play so that everyone has to group to progress.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Archemorous

No, what having both as viable options will do is that people will choose what is more fun to them, regardless of loot or status. I dont want or need more rewards for my soloing than you for your group content, I dont. But I want some kind of reward. I think thats fair.

 

Yeah, if both were viable options. They aren't. One is, one isn't.

Thats where the line gets a bit fuzzy.

In almost all MMOs both can be viable and often are. The problem is which is 'preferable'?

Both options can be equally viable, but its the player base that really decides which option is preferable in the end. Thats when you see the shit to one play style being the most popular in a game.

Originally posted by fyerwall

So as a player who enjoys grouping and solo play, I must live in an imaginary world as well because I see the same extreme POVs that IIv is mentioning?
 

No one is twisting anything. Look through all the topics on this subject and read through each thread. You will see every extremist view from both sides.

Well, if you really want me to say it, yes.

Someone is twisting the general opinion of the said extremists. This may come as a surprise, but in your team there are retards who spout nonsense as well as intelligent individuals with an actual point. I can come and tell you that the opinion of said retards is the opinion of everyone in your team. Now would that be twisting or not?

Originally posted by Archemorous

 

Well, in that case, this is the end of the line for me. This is where we agree to disagree =)

Hey I'd believe you if you proved me how are the devs making both playstyles perfectly equal, so it would really be the individuals choice. But doing that ain't so easy as you think.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Have we forgotten the argument and moved on to witty insults already? Damn, I like long foreplay.

You've been tossing the insults around for the past few pages already. I've been playing nice.

No need for me to resort to a flame war on this one; not when I'm clearly correct. :)

 At least I didn't drop the argument while doing so. Can you prove me wrong or not? 

You want me to prove that there are group/solo extremists out there?

Answer the question in my last post.

Then search these forums for posts by Chrisel and Ihmotepp.

Both have, shall we say, very strong views on the solo-vs-group debate.

Originally posted by fyerwall

 

Thats where the line gets a bit fuzzy.

In almost all MMOs both can be viable and often are. The problem is which is 'preferable'?

Both options can be equally viable, but its the player base that really decides which option is preferable in the end. Thats when you see the shit to one play style being the most popular in a game.

Haha, I wish I was as naive. They're never equal. That's the problem.