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Rift Interviews: Scott Hartsman Interview
Earlier this week, MMORPG.com's Michael Bitton had the opportunity to travel to San Francisco to visit the Trion Worlds HQ. While there, Mike spent time talking with Trion's COO Scott Hartsman. The discussion centered around Rift: Planes of Telara with topics ranging from multi-classing, rift invasions, exploration and PvP.
By Michael Bitton on August 06, 2010
Trion Worlds invited us out to San Francisco to check out their upcoming games Rift: Planes of Telara and the MMORTS End of Nations. While at the Trion HQ (which from the outside looks like the lair of a badass supervillain, by the way), I got a chance to sit down with Trion’s Chief Creative Manager Scott Hartsman for a one-on-one interview on Rift: Planes of Telara.
According to Scott, Rift is a “very dynamic MMO world” and he went on to explain the differences between the two factions players can choose from in the game. Players can choose between the Defiant and Guardian factions. The Defiant are a technology-based faction who throw caution to the wind and seek out forbidden “world-destroying” technology to pursue their cause. The Guardians are the “chosen ones of the gods” as the gods require an army, and this army consists of the best men and women of particular specializations, whether or not they were good or bad people in life. The two factions are also at civil war with each other over a resource known as Sourcestone. Sourcestone is used to power Defiant technology, while the Guardians use it to commune with the gods.
Scott describes the world of Telara as being under attack by six different planes, the planes of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Life, and Death and he also made note of the fact that Rift is replete with the typical features players would expect in a modern MMO ranging anywhere from loot, to dungeons to mounts, but he also points out two key features of Rift that truly set itself apart from other MMOs.
Of course, the obvious key feature to Rift is well, Rifts! But it goes further than that; Scott describes the high-end of the rift feature as “invasions”. Invasions are masses of forces entering the world of Telara from a particular plane (or several planes) complete with their own agendas, which can get real hairy as the forces of the six planes don’t necessarily get along with each other. Of course, players can also choose to ignore these invasions if they occur in territory of an opposing faction or they can actively participate in the invasion aiding the NPCs in trashing their enemy’s footholds. If ignored, players will find that their quest hubs are overrun by invading NPCs, and the world around the areas that have been invaded will look reflective of the particular plane that overran it. Players will even be able to tell where an invading force came from by visible “planar tracks” along the ground.
Rift offers a multi-class system dubbed the “Ascended Soul” system and while this is all good and dandy, obviously many gamers look at this and think of the potential balance issues, so I asked Scott about their plans to deal with balance issues and he had a pretty surprising response. Scott actually enjoys people thinking about the balance challenges, as he feels that people are thinking of ways that combinations could end up being “too much fun” and that their stance is that they don’t even really want the system to be perfectly balanced. Indeed, Scott doesn’t even believe achieving perfect balance is something to aspire to, as players would be able to do everything and no one would feel special. Scott doesn’t view balance as a huge issue in a game like Rift where you can switch things at a whim, as opposed to your typical MMO where if something gets nerfed you may be stuck with it. Ultimately, Scott expects that there will be “out of balance” builds, but that the possibilities are so great with the soul system that players can discover new “out of balance” builds to trump or counter one already in existence.
Worried that players might discover a one-size-fits-all optimal spec, Scott assured me that this would not happen, though he admits that undoubtedly there will be optimal builds for specific activities. For example, players might create optimal runner builds for certain game modes, or super tough tanks for Capture the Flag PvP. However, the latter example would be slow and heavy and not quite as useful in a situation that requires a runner, so it wouldn’t be perfect for everything. “Fail” builds will be possible as well, but since you can switch builds around any time you like you can easily sort your build out.
Discussing the soul system a bit further, I wanted to find out about what sorts of limitations your initial calling imposed on you as well as what exactly is involved in the acquisition of additional souls. As far as limitations go, your armor proficiency is basically limited by your calling, so a plate wearer like a warrior can wear anything, while a mage would be limited to cloth and such. The acquisition of souls is gradual as you level up, with two souls being awarded to you from within your archetype at specific intervals. Other souls can be acquired through various in-game activities such as crafting or even raiding.
Explorers will be pleased to know that Trion is considering the explorer playstyle as well. Artifacts and Collections are described by Scott as basically collectible items found in the game world that can be turned in for a reward once a collection is completed. This encourages players to stray off the beaten path that going from quest hub to quest hub tends to create. Trion intends on creating a beautiful world and Scott says they want their players to see it.
As far as PvP goes, Scott tells us that we can expect to see three quality warfronts (battlegrounds) at launch, as they are testing five or six right now and they expect the best ones to rise to the top. The idea being that they’d rather have three solid offerings over six that are “meh” as “no one comes back to meh.” One of the warfronts they are testing at the moment actually incorporates the rift gameplay as well.
Scott briefly touched on crafting as well. Players can expect an array of typical harvesting and crafting tradeskills such as mining or harvesting and they can have up to three of these active per character.
Closing things out, Scott and I discussed the impact of population balance on their game as they make use of a two-faction system which has been shown to be problematic for other games in the past, but Scott feels trying to win that battle isn’t really possible, so they intend to make up the player deficit by introducing NPCs where necessary.
Looking forward to this game.
We need more in for on the PVP BG PVP has alot of us worried on them turning it arena type PVP with a system like WoW pvp that is horrable. I a diffrent interveiw Open zone PVP was talked about now this kind of getting a bad feeling it will be a bad PVP system leaning toward's WoW's not DAoC type that alot want.
I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing with this game. Moar please.
Wasn't Scott the producer of EQ2 when the game was in its (imho) best shape? Alot of the things he talks about sound very similar, such as the collections, so for me it will be interesting to see what he creates here. One to look forward to.
Yes he was according to his site. He did EQ2 from the beginning to RoK epac.
one reason some oldtimer EQ2 players is looking forward to RIFT (personally not all that excited but oh well, might be cool, will see p )...oh and collections used to be awesome :P especially bone collections.
Thanks for the interview Mike. Now if you could just wrangle a World of Darkness Online interview from CCP. Scholar and a gentleman.
I really hope this game is going to be good. I don't like some of the decisions Scott and team have made, but overall it still looks to have some very exciting concepts including the dynamic system and the soul system.
Can you elaborate?
yay!!!
Gief moar BG-s!!!
I really like this game!
I'm gonna play iot!
I like pie! And rift!
Nice article .. I really like the fact that they are not worried about balance with regards to the specs.
I honestly cant wait for this game. I am more hyped about this than GW2 or SWTOR.
Good info there, im looking forward to this game. /crossfingers
I know i shouldn't assume but this article just made me very sad.
Battlegrounds? Does the MMORPG community really dislike PvP that much where we cannot get good open world pvp with meaningful objectives?
I guess the only way i'd play this is if these battlegrounds are as huge as a regular zone and can hold hundreds of players.
Well the way the market is going now maybe ill never get back to playing MMO's ever again. Hell its been 4 years now, why start now.
well is awhile back now someone made the poll for FFA PvP, consensual PvP and no PvP at all....FFA PvP were by far in the minority, so yes. but who knows maybe they will have a PvP server.
Everytime i read about things that are potentially bad for PVP in this game i cackle with glee. 2 factions, SWEET!, possibility of ultra OP builds that everyone will play pvp with and make PVP worthless and no fun, AWESOME!
My most ardent hope and desire is that PVP will become an afterthought in this game and that they will focus on the PVE side of it which is what they should have done in the first place.
Open honest communication from a experienced well funded dev team... That alone has to be reason to look at this game.
That aside, loving the lore, the focus on community, the visuals and flavour, the systems and pretty much everything else I am seeing so far.
We are all cynical from having our fingers burned one too many times, I get that, but so far Trion have done everything right imo.
Hate to break it to you sport, but there is a huge following out there that actually does like pvp. Granted there are so many types of pvp, it's nearly impossible to please every one. Which is where we run into so much trouble.
If a company could use the DAOC RvR model for pvp /pve and actually manage to get it right (ala not WAR) they stand to make a killing.
Hate to break it to your sport, but i never said nor implied that there is anything wrong with PVP as a playstyle. I just don't think it belongs in Rift. Just like i thought Age of Conan's lore supported a PVE game more than a PVP game. The lore in RIFT is really quite the same in that it lends itself better to PVE. You supposedly have 2 factions with a common goal of keeping the earth from being over ran by planar demons, etc, but they're gonna take time out of the day to fight each other over what essentially amounts to philisophical differences... its ridiculous.
I love pvp mmo games, and i love pve mmo games, im just sick and tired of developers entertaining the 100% false idea that they can incorporate both into a game successfully. All you have to do is look at all the problems its caused WOW to see that it just can't work.
DAOC and WAR both worked as PVP games because the PVE in them was more of an afterthought and was there to support the PVP. PVP was still the primary point of the game.
EQ was succesfull as a PVE game for the exact same reason, but in reverse. PVP servers existed to satisfy that playerbase, but the primary focus of the game was PVE.
Rift looks really promising.
But Rift seems to go heavy on PVE with PVP thrown in which means PVP will be a mediocre experience.
It usally is this if a game is focused on PVP then usally PVE get shaften and shallow while if a game is aimed for PVE then PVP will get shafted and shallow.
I hope Rift proves me wrong.
Thank god. A developer who finally admits that balance is a myth.
This game is looking better and better. Any Developer stating they can make a perfectly balanced game without resorting to Potatoes vs Potatoes is full of crap. I'm glad Rift decided to admit that there will be situations where one class combo is more powerful than the next and there will be flexible counters to most.
Battlegrounds can be fun. They even stated there will be meaningful Open World PVP, but I guess some people like to overlook that fact. I personally like the idea of capitalizing on an invasion to kick the enemy faction in the teeth.
Well, this is one of the reasons, why several people looking forward to GW2. Their World vs World system with three factions sounds good on paper.
Rift doesn´t sound bad. It is good to have a choice in near future, if one of the most wanted is going to tank.
God this game is so fucking epic.
Sure.
Back when this game was HoT, the class card system was promised to be much more flexible than the ascended soul system. There were no restrictions on callings, for example, which would have lead to a truly Alt-free game. Additionally, there were no restrictions on the crafting professions- and as a heavy crafter- and someone who overall does not like playing Alts- I am disappointed that these new restrictions are taking place.
If I remember the development timeline correctly, HoT went dark shortly after the E3 reveal, John Van Caneghem and some other key personnel were let go, and Scott was brought on to bring the game new direction and focus. After about a year of silence, we had the big RIFT reveal, and Trion has had excellent community relations since then.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think Hartsman is a talented designer and a great guy. But it is clear that he had to make some tough decisions on some basic fundamentals on the game. I imagine that there was incredible potential in HoT but that something just wasn't clicking, and Scott came in and made it work.
I believe Trion has assembled a very talented and passionate team and I think its possible that they are putting together something very special. The dynamic system alone, I personally believe, is going to be a revolutionary feature for MMOs going forward, and the dynamic features they have described so far sounds- delicious, for a lack of a better word :). But in the end, it doesn't matter how polished, how good the lore is, how many revolutionary features, if the game isn't fun, if it doesn't have that fun x-factor, probably the hardest thing of all to achieve- then it is going to suffer. So that's what I meant by I hope this game is going to be fun.
The system sounds plenty flexible to me, but I'm sure they appreciate your feedback, which is why I asked you to elaborate (they are undoubtedly reading our site for feedback on the coverage ;)).
As for the game being fun, I can tell you right now I had a great deal of fun playing the game at the studio, but I'm sure you all will be able to get your hands on it soon enough to decide for yourselves.
I clicked this article thinking..hmmm something new and interesting.Right away i see somethign that makes my cringe>>>2 factions !,right away that smells of CHEAP lazy design,they are giving us the VERY bare minimum,anything less and you only have 1 faction.I said this about Aion and many other games,you need at LEAST 5 factions,to show me you put some effort into your game.
Then i see something else that basically makes think,i better be looking somewhere else for a better effort,that somethign was when asked about eventual builds,and the response was instead of an overpowered build,the guy calls it a FUN build,hmmm that is not FUIN in my books,sorry.
Instead of stating how and why,the guy just explains that "it won't happen" players can always look to find a better build and trump that one,sounds to me like sloppy game design,where even the developer has no real idea of the outcomes.I can see some people liking this,but not me,only because i woudl rather trust a thoroughly tested design,than one of mystery.
I hope by posting this,perhaps the dev might read it and realize ,we don't like lazy game design,give me a faction game,i want 5+ factions,preferable 6-8,give me a solid design that the developer knows EVERY outcome.I don't really care about balance ,as long as it has a paper/rock/scissors design,i get no indication from the develoepr here,that there is any direction to the design.
IIRC, faction design in HoT was not 2-sided, or exclusive to race (in fact there were at the time only 3 races I think). I'm not sure I would call 2-faction design lazy; but it is certainly worrisome as it comes with loads of problems, and the market is saturated with design.
Regarding the class system, I understand that a totally unrestricted system was probably unfeasible; I just hope that we will have plenty of perfectly viable custom builds at our disposal. I don't care if 1 dps build has 2% more damage than the other, but of one dps build has 20% more dps then what's the point of so much customization?
Otherwise we will end up with a handful of optimized builds that are required for raids, guilds, dungeons, etc. I'm sure Trion understands this, its just hard to know for sure what Scott means by his statements on class balance.
And my hopes just started to die. Battlegrounds? no thanks.
The sole reason i play mmorpgs is PvP. If it's not FFA PvP; there is no point playing it.
"Oh this guy is KSing me - please come to the arena so i can kill you once.".
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I really dislike the approach the devs are taking with RIFT. They once again repeat that it'll be "the standard mmo" with a couple twists. Those twists apparently being a lack of desire to balance the game, resulting in what can only be a 2- dimensional experience for both pvp and pve players - and some randomly generated mobs that bring some pallette changes with them. Forgive me for not being as excited as so many seem to be over this game, but I'm just not seeing what is so amazing about it with the information we've been provided.
In every aspect, this game seems like another take on the EQ2's and Vanguard's of mmo past rather than anything truly innovative. Games like Guild Wars 2 coming out in which nearly every aspect is innovated upon, makes RIFT look like a cheap effort at best. I suppose this will appeal to a certain crowd, but I for one am tired of the same recycled mmo mechanics.
They want to end the 2 faction imbalance? Add a third faction for God's sakes. How many years do we have to wait for players to force developers to raise the pvp bar to what Dark Age of Camelot gave us?
Unless something really drastic has changed in the last few weeks, no, you won't be able to change your 3 souls(classes) out nor realocate the overall 51 points you will have at level 50 amongst the soul trees "on the fly". You have to go to NPC "trainers" to achieve this. Now, from what I understand from the last time this was at the forefront of the Rift community's chatter (which includes the devs) was that, for example, you could go out with your "Solo PvE Spec" and play. Let's say you your friends call you to a raid. You then run into the trainer, switch to your "5 Man Raid Spec" and go game with them. Then another group wants you to go PvP so you go in and switch to your "PvP Spec" and go get stuck in.
While we don't know how many "save" slots you get, you could theoretically have multiple variations for each of the 4 core playstyles (Solo PvE, PvP, Raid and Group PvE). It's one of the things that drew me to this game.
Sounds interesting, but i would like to hear more about quests en leveling. Please no kill this and kill that only quests. How interesting a game may look, if it's al about grinding like Aion it will be very boring after a while for those who don't like PvP.
if they dont have target for balance then this game will be a pisss off
They talked about leveling in the article. Read it again and look for the bit about "exploring".
guess what Mr. "my word is truth", not everybody likes the systems and "innovations" that ANet is so proud of... there are people who like games with healers and tanks, there's people who like games with healing in general, there's people who like games where you are dead when your life bar reaches 0.... I'm one of them... if I wanted all this healerless "downed state when you're dead and everybody is a DPS" stuff I'd go play L4D...
not saying you're stupid for liking that sort of thing...
also that "the standard MMO" line got me thinking... do you really think GW2 is going to be awesome and innovative in every aspect? f.e. I have not read ANYTHING about a combat system... might that be because it's the standard tab targeting stuff that's been around since forever? or maybe it's a bit more like Diablo or AoC... it's probably not something that's never been around before... and that's fine... not everything has to be completely new... some things are tried and true for a reason...
just pisses me off that all GW2 fanbois think "their" game is something so incredibly special and innovative while it's really just a PR spin on a handful of things that are different from other titles... kinda like Trion is doing it but with less "our game will be the salvation! now kneel peasants"
and what's up with that attitude anyway?? what's so awesome about innovation inside a genre... ever stop to think that a lot of people like it the way it is? I can only point towards FPS games again... they haven't really changed since quake1... they only expanded (some more, some less) on that basis... and guess what? there's millions of people still liking that genre... so if you don't like the direction MMOs are going (pretty much nowhere) then why not just move on?
back to topic:
it's great to see them being honest about their stuff... and not delusional about achieving perfect balance or building the world's best product (like Mythic with War *shudder*)... which is pretty much impossible anyway... as long as they fix really broken stuff I'm happy ;) as long as I can play a combo with a purifier or a champion that doesn't suck, I'm happy ^^
I think you're misinterpreting the interview a bit, Scot. The way Hartsman addressed balance didn't sound to me like he was saying they're "throwing balance to the wind". To me it sounds more like they're recognizing that mix/maxers will always find a build that's more "optimal", and some people will change their build to mimic the optimal build, and they're okay with that.
I've already been looking forward to this game (since it was known as Heroes of Telara), and the fact that they said outright they're not going to try for overall balance is encouraging to me. Why? Because I believe when there are imbalanced builds/classes that you get people who play their character because that's what they ENJOY playing, not because it's the most uber. And the people who enjoy playing are the ones I want to group with / be guilded with.
I played EQ1 for 6 years. I played a warrior. Without a healer I was worthless, essentially. I also had an alt enchanter (strictly crowd control class). The warrior was completely gimped when it came to doing anything at all solo, but I filled a role for groups that I really enjoyed. It made the game so much more immersive and I enjoyed my time playing it immensely. People on my server knew me by name, knew I was a good tank, and I got regular invites any time I was LFG.
Did it bug me that a druid could quad-kite a bunch of mobs and soak up XP like crazy - while solo? Nope. Good for them. They figured out a way to play solo. I prefer to play in groups of people who all enjoy their class and play it well. I think the whole idea of "balance" is ridiculous. It's a pipe dream.
In my opinion, here's what you gotta do if you're gonna say "We're not gonna balance everything."..... make EVERY class fun to play. If every class is fun to play, then balance won't be as big of an issue because people will enjoy playing their character regardless of how awesome someone else's character / build is.
This isn't accurate. You can change your souls out ANYWHERE as long as you are not in combat. You can have a total of four loadouts to switch between.
I wish devs would start making games with 3 factions, so 2 can unite when the 3rd one gets overpowered >_<
Does this game feature real combat or more EQ / WOW style snore shit?
If it is real combat then sign me up.
Please elaborate what 'real combat' is.
where you have to go to each persons house and fight them for real, that is how there doing pvp. :)
You know.. school might be good for you. I really appreciate the freedom of speech, but goodness, learn how to write before you share your thoughts!
Interesting article ...nice one
Rift seems to be an MMO that will have something for everyone
I hope that they develop that component that encourages people to explore the world and find artifacts ....thats the thing I would particularly enjoy
If I think of Vanguard ,there was this beautiful and immersive world with all these dungeons and I use to really enjoy just traveling around .Now if I had an incentive to explore Vanguard the experience would have been even better :)
With all do respect, but what does exploring have to do with leveling? I just hope that there will be balance. No fast leveling for example, same with the monsters you will encounter (solo and group friendly). And also that exploring thing they mention. It sounds really nice, but why not thinking of quests which gives you at the same time the possibility to explore. Just like Guild Wars.
With all do respect, but what does exploring have to do with leveling? I just hope that there will be balance. No fast leveling for example, same with the monsters you will encounter (solo and group friendly). And also that exploring thing they mention. It sounds really nice, but why not thinking of quests which gives you at the same time the possibility to explore. Just like Guild Wars.
Sorry about the double post.
This leaves the question about character template switching open then as posters have said both that you need an npc and that you do not. In beta I think people will be able to get an idea of how much of a problem this will be.
You can never truly get balance, it is just a matter of not having any glaring problems, mirrored classes like in WAR address faction balance. But within a faction classes lead to a role, roles create unbalance. In a classless system optimisation creates a few proven templates, effectively the players create their own unbalanced classes.
My view of balance in Rift is that, since all players have access to each class in its archetype, at least players have the chance to chose one of the best builds for their archetype. That would make it abit easier to balance, in regards to there being 4 archetypes.
Afaik, it will not be possible to create any advanced dps meters, which helps to "hide" smaller dps discrepancies within archetypes.
Furthermore, in PvP, with the huge amount of possible combinations in each archetype, I would be amazed if only 1 build could be overpowered against all other archetypes and combinations. Let's say you create a stealth ultrahigh-dps rogue that works really well when attacking solo healers. This build might have all sorts of trouble when caught by a ranged class, or another rogue with Ranger abilities....
THis game is looking more and more better with each new information release.
One thing i dont like in MMOs, which was mentioned in this article, is the idea of limiting armor or gear by class. I dont mean that mages should be able to wear full plate armor and still cast spells, but they shouldnt be technically limited, but rather limit themselves by choice. Any class should be able to use any gear, excluding ones with a prereq like magic stuff, where a barbarian wouldnt have the knowlede to even know where to start to use it. But Why cant a mage pick up a 2h sword and swing it? Sure, theyd suck at it, but Id rather have the option to fail. A mage should likewise be able to throw on full plate armor and then barely be able to move because they arent strong enough. A warrior should be able to swing a magic staff, or use a bow. A ranger should be able to use a halberd.
Basically unless there is a logical reason, then there should be less limits, not more.
Like I said earlier -- you do not. I was, you know, actually there, and heard it from the horse's mouth. :)
Trion has already stated there will be PvP servers.
Then you need to look further before jumping to conclusions.
Trion has already stated there will be PvP servers.
If you go to the community sites for Rifts, you will notice that a large chunk of that community comes from EQ, EQ2, Vanguard. It is not new mechanics that we are looking for, it is a new world with a really good implementation of some very solidly proven mechanics.
The game does have some innovative ideas, but the general concept on mechanics is, "if it's not broken, don't fix it."
Balance is a myth, it can only exist when everyone is exactly the same.
The developers have the right idea. Don't sweat the balance issues so much. Sure, it one particular build is outperforming everything else, it's time to nerf, other than that, stop complaining your build is gimp and go fix it.
Except that it isn't anywhere near a playable beta, and all that has been shown of the game is screen art and short demos, so I vote this could all be vapourware like quite a few other indie mmos that have been Internet hyped.LOL what cold hard facts do you have they say it is not anywhere near a playable beta? Please link this for me.
If you want real combat, perhaps Nero is more your style. That is, if you have real skills.
You need an NPC to set up your builds, of which you can have four saved.
You may switch between your builds on the fly, as long as you are not in combat.
Really?
They are starting to gear up for closed beta right now.
"Except that it isn't anywhere near a playable beta, and all that has been shown of the game is screen art and short demos, so I vote this could all be vapourware like quite a few other indie mmos that have been Internet hyped."
You should really be more careful what you assume:
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?1922-The-Official-Beta-Selection-Thread&p=59655#post59655
I wasnt very pleased with the token crafting mention. It sounds like they are going to put it in as an afterthought. Id rather they just took the economy out alltogether if they are not going to plan it well. A game dosent really need gold and trade and crafting, and buying food and potions and blah blah. Just make the game play fun such that people dont have the time or desire to aliviate their boredom with work.