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The Secret World Forum » General Discussion » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

 
OP  12/12/12 5:32:05 PM#1

As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

  User Deleted
12/12/12 5:34:42 PM#2
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.
  Tjed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 160

12/12/12 5:36:25 PM#3
Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 
  muffins89

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1247

12/12/12 5:37:52 PM#4
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

this.  read the fine print.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  wormed

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 347

12/12/12 5:38:06 PM#5
People seem to think contracts protect companies from doing completely illegal and ridiculous shit.
  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

 
OP  12/12/12 5:38:44 PM#6
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 768

12/12/12 5:40:11 PM#7

You knew very well before lifetiming that in these times MMO's have a tendency of failing, meaning they might close down entirly or have to change how they do things.

Yes the small letters in the terms of service wil give all rights to do so to the company.

You knew it could happen yet you still lifetimed. don't come crying now.

  User Deleted
12/12/12 5:41:12 PM#8
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe?  How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4294

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

12/12/12 5:41:22 PM#9

Maybe they can work a class action lawsuit into their next arg event... Im pretty sure funcom is within their rights to do this. Its in their toc specifically.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7395

"Really officer, they're herbs."

12/12/12 5:41:40 PM#10
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

  Tjed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 160

12/12/12 5:41:52 PM#11
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

This is interesting.  Any reading material that you could link?

  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

 
OP  12/12/12 5:42:22 PM#12
Originally posted by xeniar

You knew it could happen yet you still lifetimed. don't come crying now.

I'm not talking about just lifetimers. I'm talking about people with remaining subscription time, who might have signed up for a three-monthly payment plan - they deserve a refund option.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

12/12/12 5:43:57 PM#13

From what I have read, lifetime subs and people with remaining time on their subs are being well compensated.  Have you not looked into this?  Most of the lifetime sub posts Ive seen are from people very happy with what they will be receiving every month. 

Your legal action will go nowhere, the EULA is written with stuff like this in mind and you have already agreed to its terms by playing the game.

  CalmOceans

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1778

12/12/12 5:44:39 PM#14
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

12/12/12 5:46:01 PM#15

Sigh.  Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers.  I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday.  It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.

http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

  ph3n0m73

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 42

12/12/12 5:46:47 PM#16
ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 12766

12/12/12 5:48:17 PM#17
Never mind the fine print.  Subscribers paid to get access to the game, right?  And they still have access to the game, don't they?  If Funcom is blocking subscribers out of the game during their paid subscription time and demanding that they pay even more, then you might have a case.  But giving non-subscribers more than you expected?  Nope, that doesn't merit legal action.
  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/12/12 5:48:17 PM#18
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

They MADE it worthless by giving away almost everything for free which I paid 200$ for.

 

Today I´m fed up with MMOs, look around, all cash grabs, no exceptions.

BUT in case of TSW they threw pearls in front of the swine by giving away everything with the B2P model.

The last bastion beside EvE, TSW finally catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

 

sad day for a great game and unique community

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

12/12/12 5:48:36 PM#19
Originally posted by ph3n0m73
ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.

Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers.  OP doesn't understand the change.

http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

 
OP  12/12/12 5:49:42 PM#20
Originally posted by Ortwig

Sigh.  Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers.  I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday.  It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.

http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

It doesn't matter. It might be a deal, but it's not the deal I signed up for: and 1200 points is still $10, less than $15 a month.

The right thing to do is refund our remaining time and if we want to sub for your "better deal" we will.

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