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The Secret World Forum » General Discussion » Funcom should have made the game less "On rail" feel to it

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43 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6030

 
OP  11/03/12 5:33:07 PM#1

I really like what they did with this themepark of removing character levels,

 

but in reality, its still there, and the world itself is still on rails.

 

This themepark MMO would have been much more interesting if the world was fully free to explore, free of on rail gates.

 

doesnt need to be a sandbox, but not so much on rails ether.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

11/03/12 5:45:21 PM#2

Yeah, but then how would you deliver the all-important "story?" Because we all know that games are nothing more than something to do with your fingers while perusing the carefully crafted "story" made by experts (devs, not you).

Basically it's like knitting while watching a movie. And we charge you extra for knitting, preferably a subscription.

/heavy irony/ devil's advocate off

Digital game history from the mass entertainment perspective in a nutshell:

1) It's a nerd's pasttime, we are not interested.

2) Holy crap! It's bigger than movie industry?! What the hell is it?

3) "It's like movies, but you twiddle your fingers while watching."

4) Ok, we understand now. Movies with finger twiddling ("interactivity"? yeah that thing). We can do that. And only kids play games, anyway, not the grownups. So lets make children's movies with an occasional opportunity to finger twiddle. We can make some of them scary. Kids like scary movies too. Problem solved.

It is human nature to look for the familiar when faced with the new. Once the aging and well estabilished entertainment industry smelled the money in video games it naturally applied what it knew best, what made its money in the first place - the hollywood movie model. And now you have it. Story-based, linear, character branding, blocbuster budgets, hype industry... the whole shebang. The only thing missing are the sex scandals and red carpet walks... but considering the apearance of an average game developer, we may be thankful at least for that.

And that is why TSW is so linear.

  Chtuga

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 111

11/03/12 6:52:47 PM#3

And you would also get almost everyone complaining at "no endgame" because, well... what would be the endgame since everyone would be doing what the wanted most and there was nothing after than that!

 

I think gamers asks for alot of things, and want alot of things, but when it comes down to it, the players only want to pay for whats mainstram and familiar. More secure and familiar, and not more unknown because at the end of the day its players that pay for the game. And they have given a clear signal that the more similar to wow a game is, the more it will sell.

  User Deleted
11/04/12 3:21:06 PM#4
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I really like what they did with this themepark of removing character levels,

 

but in reality, its still there, and the world itself is still on rails.

 

This themepark MMO would have been much more interesting if the world was fully free to explore, free of on rail gates.

 

doesnt need to be a sandbox, but not so much on rails ether.

Your asking for a sandbox, which is strange since you really only seem interestedin themeparks.

This themepark has far less of a themepark feel to it than just about any other themepark out there.

 

I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.

 

Go play a full blown sandbox, its more entertaining to read your posts on why you like a game, rather than the current situation of playing all these themeparks then complaining that they are themeparks. Its getting old.  Also your armchair developer suggestions are all the same "remove grind remove rails"  why not go play a RTS or FPS...or a game like day/war Z since you dislike a core mechanic with RPG's?  Might be a bit easier to find games you like if you stop playing the RPGS you seem to dislike so greatly.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/07/12 4:53:56 AM#5

Sandbox, themepark ... who cares.  What people want is innovation in a game genre that is as stale as three year old bread.  Innovation was promised but didn't happen with TSW.  For those that can see past the smoke and mirrors, they can see the same old thing reworked.   You either need to innovate or hit on a recurring formula that works to be successful.  If you can't innovate then do what people are familiar with but better than it has been done before. 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2033

11/07/12 5:07:57 AM#6
Originally posted by Crunchy222
I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.

I'm with Crunchy, if you wanna see what's on-rail really means, you should check RaiderZ :)

I think TSW delivered what was promised. It's a great Ragnar game, with well-written npc's and story (though I think they made a step back from AoC's npc interaction, that was better), a new questing system with investigation and brainwork. Still a themepark, if you like to divide games between theme and sandbox, but definitely not one on the rails.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/07/12 6:18:13 AM#7


Originally posted by Po_gg

Originally posted by Crunchy222 I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.
I'm with Crunchy, if you wanna see what's on-rail really means, you should check RaiderZ :)

I think TSW delivered what was promised. It's a great Ragnar game, with well-written npc's and story (though I think they made a step back from AoC's npc interaction, that was better), a new questing system with investigation and brainwork. Still a themepark, if you like to divide games between theme and sandbox, but definitely not one on the rails.




Yeah, I wouldn't call the game an 'on rails' game. I would still want a more open world feel, and less dependance on combat. But that's a preference...not a comment on how well the did the game.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

11/07/12 6:22:13 AM#8
Originally posted by fallenlords

Sandbox, themepark ... who cares.  What people want is innovation in a game genre that is as stale as three year old bread.  Innovation was promised but didn't happen with TSW.  For those that can see past the smoke and mirrors, they can see the same old thing reworked.   You either need to innovate or hit on a recurring formula that works to be successful.  If you can't innovate then do what people are familiar with but better than it has been done before. 

Sandbox, themepark, innovation who care. it is all about gameplay. Rift is perfect example that innovation means nothing as long as you deliver on content and keep your players engaged.

On the other hand FFXIV proves that innovation does not guarante success. I will take fun gameplay over innovation for sake of it any day.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19083

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/07/12 6:43:05 AM#9
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Po_gg

Originally posted by Crunchy222 I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.
I'm with Crunchy, if you wanna see what's on-rail really means, you should check RaiderZ :)

 

I think TSW delivered what was promised. It's a great Ragnar game, with well-written npc's and story (though I think they made a step back from AoC's npc interaction, that was better), a new questing system with investigation and brainwork. Still a themepark, if you like to divide games between theme and sandbox, but definitely not one on the rails.




Yeah, I wouldn't call the game an 'on rails' game. I would still want a more open world feel, and less dependance on combat. But that's a preference...not a comment on how well the did the game.

 

I disagree, definitely had an "on rails" feel to me.  You start in a particular area and can't really explore even other areas of the same zone until you get your skills/gear up to PAR, and you certainly can't go to another zone without meeting the requirements 1st which is the classic theme park design to me.

What would be more interesting is if players could have slipped between all the zones right from the start, with varying levels of content in each zone, so that you had to return regularly to all of them, working what was level appropriate and avoiding that which was too strong.

They did a little bit of this, each zone had some content way over level, but not enough to take away the on rails feel, at least to me.

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7242

11/07/12 6:47:47 AM#10

The OP argument never made sense to me concerning TSW.  I never did any of the story, and skipped 3 zones. 

 

There are ZERO quest that you have to do in TSW. ZERO. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  MMOwanderer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/12
Posts: 417

11/07/12 6:51:29 AM#11

I don't think it would have made that much of a huge different. The content would still be the same, expect you could take it in any other. The complaints i've seen aren't about the actuall leveling experienc, including me, but what happens when you're finished with it. Endgame grind, apperantly.

I do wish TSW was a more sandbox/sandpark game, or had more system type cotent, instead of pure quet based stuff, but it is what it is.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7242

11/07/12 6:54:52 AM#12

...strange thread after all this time. I blame TSW marketing. 

 

There are no rails in TSW. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

11/07/12 7:05:09 AM#13
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Po_gg

Originally posted by Crunchy222 I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.
I'm with Crunchy, if you wanna see what's on-rail really means, you should check RaiderZ :)

 

I think TSW delivered what was promised. It's a great Ragnar game, with well-written npc's and story (though I think they made a step back from AoC's npc interaction, that was better), a new questing system with investigation and brainwork. Still a themepark, if you like to divide games between theme and sandbox, but definitely not one on the rails.




Yeah, I wouldn't call the game an 'on rails' game. I would still want a more open world feel, and less dependance on combat. But that's a preference...not a comment on how well the did the game.

 

I disagree, definitely had an "on rails" feel to me.  You start in a particular area and can't really explore even other areas of the same zone until you get your skills/gear up to PAR, and you certainly can't go to another zone without meeting the requirements 1st which is the classic theme park design to me.

What would be more interesting is if players could have slipped between all the zones right from the start, with varying levels of content in each zone, so that you had to return regularly to all of them, working what was level appropriate and avoiding that which was too strong.

They did a little bit of this, each zone had some content way over level, but not enough to take away the on rails feel, at least to me.

 

You obviously didn't make it past the desert. The last 3 zones are all the same QL level of content. There is also NM mobs in the starting area by the airport that require QL10 gear.

I wonder if you even played the game.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5159

11/07/12 7:15:18 AM#14
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I really like what they did with this themepark of removing character levels,

 

but in reality, its still there, and the world itself is still on rails.

 

This themepark MMO would have been much more interesting if the world was fully free to explore, free of on rail gates.

 

doesnt need to be a sandbox, but not so much on rails ether.

This game is not on Rails at all.   Sure it has a bit linear feel to it, that you have to progress your character before you can tackle content in the next zone, but you can still go back and do different missions or redo some nice missions and still get full XP for it!

In a fullblown themepark, like WoW, EQ2, LOTRO low level content will eventually just grey out and not reward you anymore.

Those games are far more linear than TSW. But they are still not on Rails.

On Rails is that you are locked into tight path and forced to follow it with no deviation, like SW:TOR, especially the space content! Now that is on rails!

Another example of an On Rails experience are the latest Final Fantasy games! In which you are locked into fixed path you cannot deviate from.

 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4752

11/07/12 7:29:31 AM#15
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Yeah, but then how would you deliver the all-important "story?" Because we all know that games are nothing more than something to do with your fingers while perusing the carefully crafted "story" made by experts (devs, not you).

This.

Since when do we need thier story? Why don't they give us tools to write our own stories?

 

FC had a great game in AO. Unfortunately it had a very bad start and never really recovered from that. But once they got it together, it was a great game up until LoX. Point is, the game is Mostly a Theme-park with sandbox elements. In spite of the game's many faults, it had also done many things well too. Shadow Lands had stories to tell, the way they did the questing felt like it was truly a quest and not a bunch of errands. It just seems like they had many things that were done right with that game, you'd think they could have borrowed some of the good ideas they had.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19083

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/07/12 7:41:01 AM#16
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Po_gg

Originally posted by Crunchy222 I really dont think you even understand what "on rails" means to be honest.  Yeah this games a themepark, but its certainly the least themepark of all the other themeparks out there.
I'm with Crunchy, if you wanna see what's on-rail really means, you should check RaiderZ :)

 

I think TSW delivered what was promised. It's a great Ragnar game, with well-written npc's and story (though I think they made a step back from AoC's npc interaction, that was better), a new questing system with investigation and brainwork. Still a themepark, if you like to divide games between theme and sandbox, but definitely not one on the rails.




Yeah, I wouldn't call the game an 'on rails' game. I would still want a more open world feel, and less dependance on combat. But that's a preference...not a comment on how well the did the game.

 

I disagree, definitely had an "on rails" feel to me.  You start in a particular area and can't really explore even other areas of the same zone until you get your skills/gear up to PAR, and you certainly can't go to another zone without meeting the requirements 1st which is the classic theme park design to me.

What would be more interesting is if players could have slipped between all the zones right from the start, with varying levels of content in each zone, so that you had to return regularly to all of them, working what was level appropriate and avoiding that which was too strong.

They did a little bit of this, each zone had some content way over level, but not enough to take away the on rails feel, at least to me.

 

You obviously didn't make it past the desert. The last 3 zones are all the same QL level of content. There is also NM mobs in the starting area by the airport that require QL10 gear.

I wonder if you even played the game.

Well, it's pretty obvious you didn't read my post.

No, I didn't make it past the Valley of the Sun God, you know the 3 zones you more or less have to complete after completing the 3 zones before it. (Solomon island) . And within each region you largely have to complete them one after another, 1-2-3, at least for greatest efficiency.

But somehow not having any linearity in Transylvania makes the title not linear?

And you'll note I mentioned that each zone had content way over level (like the Quarry area in Blue Mountain) but that alone does not make the title any less  linear feeling.

Are you sure you even played the game? I know I did, and it felt very on the rails to me.  Just my opinion.

 

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

11/07/12 8:09:26 AM#17

I will agree that in terms of character progression the game brings you from the easier stuff in Solomon's island to the harder stuff. Still, going from that point to the point where we cal on-rail any type of difficulty progression is misleading and quite a stretch.

TSW is by no stretch of the imagination "on rails" in the same manner WoW Cataclysm was or SW:TOR. It more closer resembles GW2, for example, or LOTRO. In other words it has a main story quest and beyond that you can roam and find anything you like, as long as you can deal with the difficulty. Think Skyrim type of themepark, with the two big differences the zones and that moving to certain zones requires some progression (only in Solomon's island) with the main quest, limitations that Skyrim doesn't share. Still, the overall feeling is the same.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4752

11/07/12 8:19:59 AM#18
Originally posted by Xasapis

I will agree that in terms of character progression the game brings you from the easier stuff in Solomon's island to the harder stuff. Still, going from that point to the point where we cal on-rail any type of difficulty progression is misleading and quite a stretch.

TSW is by no stretch of the imagination "on rails" in the same manner WoW Cataclysm was or SW:TOR. It more closer resembles GW2, for example, or LOTRO. In other words it has a main story quest and beyond that you can roam and find anything you like, as long as you can deal with the difficulty. Think Skyrim type of themepark, with the two big differences the zones and that moving to certain zones requires some progression (only in Solomon's island) with the main quest, limitations that Skyrim doesn't share. Still, the overall feeling is the same.

WoW and those like it

GW2 / TSW

The games aren't really on rails, but you are still in your controlled environments (your box) where you can roam around until you run into something.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

11/07/12 8:24:43 AM#19
Yes, but you can have Dragonage and Skyrim. Both are themeparks, but one is on rails while the other isn't.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19083

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/07/12 8:35:20 AM#20
Originally posted by Xasapis
Yes, but you can have Dragonage and Skyrim. Both are themeparks, but one is on rails while the other isn't.

I believe most people call Skyrim a sandbox style game...

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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