Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.

Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.

I don't think your analogy works here at all.

Kuppa: there obviously are things in the cash shop that you can't get ingame.  There are a couple items that at a point were in ingame stores in beta.  I criticized this, however, the rest fo what was ingame in all the beta period is ingame as of now.

The poster talks about glasses, gloves and other elements as if they weren't available ingame.  he even implies that all he can get was what he got in the Character Creator.  That's false.

My character got his CC outfit that i chose knowing i would complete with what can be bought ingame in London.  Which is a TON of stuff.  I have 3 pairs of gloves, several hiking boots, training shoes, jeans, formal pants, and several  coats/jackets.  3 pair of glasses 2 of which are sun glasses.   All that from London Pangeae clothing vendors.

There's quite a few of those in that place.

The, upon looking at my "dressing room" there are a shit ton of coats, that came from achievements, like one different coat or jacket for completing each of the inner abilities for weapons.  the shotgun one is quite badass, there are good options from this.

I have 3 caps, one for completing a series of misisons in kingsmouth, 2 from the "Secret War" FB game.  In fact from that i have 2 full costumes, dragon one and "neutral one" cap, jacket, shirt, pants.

I can change the look of my character for the ocassion, i keep on changing looks and re-visit Pangaea to buy more stuff, for my "hitman" look, for my Indiana Jones wanna be one... i can pose as a senior in Innsmouth Academy.  All without touching the cash shop.  And i'll be gettign stuff from the cash shop once i pay my first sub, without spending any more money than my usual 3 month sub.

There's not even much to get from the Cash shop, even.

And of course it is the "but that should be part of the game at no additional cost" which is exactly the same as stating that the extras in a car should be part of it with the base model price.  Developing art assets is not cheap, if they weren't getting extra revenue from it (or planning to) they wouldn't add much in those departments, cause that how business work.

people that don't like Cash Shops don't have to use it, there's absolutely no need to do it,  people that simply can stand the idea of a cash shop no matter what should probably abstain from using the game, if that's so big a deal for them.

Also they should actually see that very, very few things in reality are black OR white, and absolutes have been among the causes for some of our worst mistakes.  they also should also understand that there's a lot of people that's ok with it, and that there's even a lot of people that like it and are asking for more things to buy cause the selection is still quite limited.

I am not making this up, i know quite a few people that already have most if not all of the decent outfits and pieces available there, and want more, and there can be seen coments on this in groups and sometimes even on general chat.  Different people have different preferences.

Originally posted by Maitrader

So many haters bitch and moan about the cash shop in TSW.... the shop ONLY sells clothing, pets, outfits, titles.... all cosmetic shit that gives you ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE in the game ... there are ingame vendors who sell shitloads of clothing... theres a pet vendor.... so you cannot buy a title with pax..... who the fuck cares? unbelieveable that people say that the cash shop in TSW is ridiculous and a disgrace.. if you think its a disgrace that FC offers vanity items to those who can afford it, then move along, or get a better paying job that will allow you to be vain as well.

You pay for the client and a sub fee and you don't get everything in the game? And you think that is cool?

Also the idea that becuase items don't confer a specific combat or leveling advantage they don't matter is demonstrably false. An MMO is a game, people play for fun. If these cosmetic items make the game more fun (provable by the fact people do grind hard for these items or pay for them) then they have value. The very fact that these items have been selected by the publisher to be sold for real money, indicates their value. Value that should be included by the simple fact you've paid for the client and your sub fee.

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

 

 There is also a disturbing trend of increasing already generous profit margin's by charging extra for things that use to be free as a conveniance or an added service to your  customer's.

I remember a time when you woul go to a "service station" and they would fill your car, check your tire's and wash your window's. Now after I fill up my own truck with $150 worth of fuel they want to charge me $1 for me to put air in my tire's.

Things are a lot different today then they were yesterday and not always for the better.

This goes for gaming as well.

The best way for you not to see cash shops is stop playing mmos. single players you dont have to worry about it. becouse like it or not  cash shops are here to stay . ive never bought anything from a cash shop my self but if i ever get a wild hair up my arse to do so its my right. i  work hard for my money and if i want to buy fuzzy slippers in the game i can.

Originally posted by Gargola

Kuppa: there obviously are things in the cash shop that you can't get ingame.  There are a couple items that at a point were in ingame stores in beta.  I criticized this, however, the rest fo what was ingame in all the beta period is ingame as of now.

The poster talks about glasses, gloves and other elements as if they weren't available ingame.  he even implies that all he can get was what he got in the Character Creator.  That's false.

My character got his CC outfit that i chose knowing i would complete with what can be bought ingame in London.  Which is a TON of stuff.  I have 3 pairs of gloves, several hiking boots, training shoes, jeans, formal pants, and several  coats/jackets.  3 pair of glasses 2 of which are sun glasses.   All that from London Pangeae clothing vendors.

There's quite a few of those in that place.

The, upon looking at my "dressing room" there are a shit ton of coats, that came from achievements, like one different coat or jacket for completing each of the inner abilities for weapons.  the shotgun one is quite badass, there are good options from this.

I have 3 caps, one for completing a series of misisons in kingsmouth, 2 from the "Secret War" FB game.  In fact from that i have 2 full costumes, dragon one and "neutral one" cap, jacket, shirt, pants.

I can change the look of my character for the ocassion, i keep on changing looks and re-visit Pangaea to buy more stuff, for my "hitman" look, for my Indiana Jones wanna be one... i can pose as a senior in Innsmouth Academy.  All without touching the cash shop.  And i'll be gettign stuff from the cash shop once i pay my first sub, without spending any more money than my usual 3 month sub.

There's not even much to get from the Cash shop, even.

And of course it is the "but that should be part of the game at no additional cost" which is exactly the same as stating that the extras in a car should be part of it with the base model price.  Developing art assets is not cheap, if they weren't getting extra revenue from it (or planning to) they wouldn't add much in those departments, cause that how business work.

 

people that don't like Cash Shops don't have to use it, there's absolutely no need to do it,  people that simply can stand the idea of a cash shop no matter what should probably abstain from using the game, if that's so big a deal for them.

Also they should actually see that very, very few things in reality are black OR white, and absolutes have been among the causes for some of our worst mistakes.  they also should also understand that there's a lot of people that's ok with it, and that there's even a lot of people that like it and are asking for more things to buy cause the selection is still quite limited.

I am not making this up, i know quite a few people that already have most if not all of the decent outfits and pieces available there, and want more, and there can be seen coments on this in groups and sometimes even on general chat.  Different people have different preferences.

You keep trying to bring other real world examples but unfortunately they don't fit. Paying a box price and a sub is already above the competitions cost. Having me buy an item for extra money on top of that is just ridiculous for me. If you have tons of money and don't mind spending it then be my guest. Its simple enough to see that they are charging more than the competition and I value the money I have.

I know there are folks who don't really care about wether its a fair price, they just like it and want it. Thats fine, but saying that its fair price I don't buy it.

Someone said it earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it for emphasis:

"If you think you're "registering your protest" by not buying or playing a game with a cash shop, you are sadly mistaken"

The developer of the game has no idea why YOU (or the other 7 billion people on the planet) didn't buy their game. Until you send them an email and explain your reasons, they are free to assume you don't play their game because it's an MMO, or because it's not a shooter, or because you happen to be blind. They have no way of knowing you're boycotting their cash shop.

You may as well decide to start picketing the company by carrying a placard around in your basement.

Look at the bright side, when you see someone wearing a cash shop only item it makes it pretty easy to identify who you want to take advanatage of.

Sort of like a "kick me" sign.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.

 

Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.

 

I don't think your analogy works here at all.

Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the  option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.

F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.

Originally posted by colddog04

I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.

Because they want to use the horrible business model. I like cash shops with cosmetic only and i love the f2p and b2p models of business but when you add the monthly sub to any equation it always ends the same way, badly. They need to take that out. I think the only reason they have the sub in there is so that people won't freak out as badly about having a shop, because this is the model used by WoW and since they all look to gaining as many wow players as possible that's probably their plan.

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.

 

Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.

 

I don't think your analogy works here at all.

Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the  option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.

F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.

Can someone else just facepalm this for me?

Can you please name a restaurant that charges 50 cents per day, whether or not you go to the restaurant?

Originally posted by lifeordinary

If there is demand there is supply. Can't blame the companies alone. If you really want to see cash shops go away, stop spending money on them which is something impossible to do so cash shops are here to stay.

 Very well put. At the end of the day you need to stop blaming the guy selling the cow and start blaming those buying the beef.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by laserit

The reality of cash shops is:

That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.

Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.

It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.

And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.

You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.

You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.

Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.

The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.

The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.

I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.

 

Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.

 

I don't think your analogy works here at all.

Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the  option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.

F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.

Can someone else just facepalm this for me?

 

Can you please name a restaurant that charges 50 cents per day, whether or not you go to the restaurant?

Sure, I'll facepalm you.

Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.

But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.

How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.

Originally posted by Panthien

Sure, I'll facepalm you.

Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.

But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

 

The principal isn't the same at all.

In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.

You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.

Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.

Originally posted by Panthien

But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.

How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.

A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.

A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee. More like B2P with a cash shop.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.

How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.

A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.

 

A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee.

 The Gym is a better analogy. But I would equate it as paying your sub for your membership and then having to pay extra to use the bench press or the shower.

The only positive to a cash shop is for the developer.

I dont see getting a smile from your newly purchased pixel pant's... as a positive

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Panthien

Sure, I'll facepalm you.

Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.

But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.

 

The principal isn't the same at all.

 

In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.

 

You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.

 

Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.

Its funny you just acknowlage the principle is correct. You order your meal, it comes with potatoes(or fries) some vegetables, a salad and a piece of meat. You dont get a drink, you have to order and pay extra to get that.

Sticking with purely styles here, a game comes with for arguement sake, 2000 different styles and adds 20 new styles average per content update (new dungeon, missions, raid, pvp season) .  (We have ~15 years?? of mmo's to proof this)

Now they hire an additional team to design styles for the cash store, and now they are adding an additional 30-40 styles per week extra.

Wow, some of you should seriously be forced to enroll in AA (Analogies Anonymous).