Originally posted by Sorrow

Learned Hebrew last night to solve a quest... I mean seriously video games as a teaching tool :)

 

Which was easier than the quest that you needed a crash course in morse code to complete. :)

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Atlan99

Then perhaps the game isn't for you and other people whom the game stresses out. Not every game has to be made personally just for you.

Instead of trying to make the company change the game to suit you, why not play a different game that doesn't stress you out?

Instead of trying to make me look like the bad guy for espousing my opinion on what could make the game better for me, why don't you just stop being the Devil's Advocate on all of my posts here?  There are other parts of the game I really like but for the game to KEEP me, and lets face it, that's the problem with all of these new MMOs these days, then they may need to cater to those like me.  If not, I'll move on after the month I paid for is up.  It's not going to stop me from talking about it though.  So get used to it.

I doubt they are even trying to cater to people who are easily frustrated with this game. Do you not have enough selection of stress free mmos? I think there are few out there somewhere.

Personally, I was bored to tears with WAR, AION, Rift, SWTOR etc. before I hit the two week mark (some I never played further than beta). I said my peice about those titles but never stuck around trying to transform them (via powerful forum posts) into something that better suited me. Eventually ya gotta move the fuck on.

With the neverending ocean of easy ass mmos, I'd say there is a little wiggle room for something with a bit of challenge. Considering the terribly stagnated state of the genre, this is nothing but a good thing.

Originally posted by xDayx

Finally a themepark that is not made for 14 year olds with ADD.

So true !

I did 50% of valley of the sun god using 2 QL6 weapons and half QL8 talismans/half QL6 talismans. It was a little on the slow side but definitely doable. 

 

VoSG drops QL8 and QL9 stuff.  Maybe transylvania or some dungeons get real hard.  But with a decent build the main PVE game is not that bad.

Originally posted by xDayx

Finally a themepark that is not made for 14 year olds with ADD.

I just hope 30 year old losers that refuse to grow up aren't still playing this game when it releases.

Originally posted by xDayx

Finally a themepark that is not made for 14 year olds with ADD.

 Another "adult" whining about kids playing video games. lmao.

Originally posted by gessekai332

I'm currently at questing in the blue mountain area and i have to say this game can get pretty hard. theyr're not just hard in one specific way either. Theres one i encountered that was a brutal DPS check, one where you needed to figure out a way to climb up a mountain to get to an npc, and another where you needed to sneak past some guards and then figure out a way to distract them so they leave their guardpost so you can get past them. it actually keeps me interested in the game because its an actual challenge, im not just grinding the same shit over n over again. however, there are times when i do just wanna grind and relax and the game lets me do that to which is pretty nice (repeating previous dungeon to get more skill points).

 

Anyone else finding stuff hard? Like questing in egypt or transylvania?

Hell yea and I love it!  No face roll to level 85 here!

Once you get to the Shadowy Forest in Transylvania then you'll start having a bit more challenge. The Nightmare mobs there can be difficult, you can't really brute force your way through them.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by elocke

 

Not everyone wants to play a GAME and get stressed.  Rather the opposite.  I play a GAME, notice the emphasis, so as to relax and DE-stress.  Just saying, the OPTION should be there for those of us who don't want to study the solo instance bosses for hours on end to group up in order to complete the content.  That's all.  You lose nothing and players like me gain a choice.  Win/Win.

Then perhaps the game isn't for you and other people whom the game stresses out. Not every game has to be made personally just for you.

Instead of trying to make the company change the game to suit you, why not play a different game that doesn't stress you out?

Instead of trying to make me look like the bad guy for espousing my opinion on what could make the game better for me, why don't you just stop being the Devil's Advocate on all of my posts here?  There are other parts of the game I really like but for the game to KEEP me, and lets face it, that's the problem with all of these new MMOs these days, then they may need to cater to those like me.  If not, I'll move on after the month I paid for is up.  It's not going to stop me from talking about it though.  So get used to it.

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I feel the same as you, I too play games to relax and de-stress and like you I feel TSW is stressing me too much. I also wish it would support more playstyles than people with an e-sports mentality who play games to prove something to themselves. And I wish we could discuss that without some people attacking us. Oh my.

 

For instance, why are there so many jumping elements? I suck at jumping, and I wish there were just alternative ways to solve a quest. Or why are the solo story instances locked to other players? In SWTOR I could take in a buddy when my story instance boss was too hard. Here, if it doesn't work I am stuck, end of story. Happened to me now too often, and it beats the idea of a MMO, when you just can't take some help along in vital parts of a game! And stuff like morse code... sorry, it is my idea of riddles and puzzles that you can solve them with logic, with your own thoughts not some external decoding software or external info. That's just BS. I want ingame clues to riddles and be able to solve a riddle by thinking, not by consulting some website or program or what.

Originally posted by Elikal

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I welcome you to try and make an MMO that caters to all different playstyles and still manages to not annoy everyone.

It just doesn't work that way. We need different MMOs that each cater to a specific playstyle, thus ensuring that a) the players playing it feel at home and b) the ones who don't like that certain playstyle stay away.

 

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Elikal

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I welcome you to try and make an MMO that caters to all different playstyles and still manages to not annoy everyone.

It just doesn't work that way. We need different MMOs that each cater to a specific playstyle, thus ensuring that a) the players playing it feel at home and b) the ones who don't like that certain playstyle stay away.

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by elocke

 

Not everyone wants to play a GAME and get stressed.  Rather the opposite.  I play a GAME, notice the emphasis, so as to relax and DE-stress.  Just saying, the OPTION should be there for those of us who don't want to study the solo instance bosses for hours on end to group up in order to complete the content.  That's all.  You lose nothing and players like me gain a choice.  Win/Win.

Then perhaps the game isn't for you and other people whom the game stresses out. Not every game has to be made personally just for you.

Instead of trying to make the company change the game to suit you, why not play a different game that doesn't stress you out?

Instead of trying to make me look like the bad guy for espousing my opinion on what could make the game better for me, why don't you just stop being the Devil's Advocate on all of my posts here?  There are other parts of the game I really like but for the game to KEEP me, and lets face it, that's the problem with all of these new MMOs these days, then they may need to cater to those like me.  If not, I'll move on after the month I paid for is up.  It's not going to stop me from talking about it though.  So get used to it.

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I feel the same as you, I too play games to relax and de-stress and like you I feel TSW is stressing me too much. I also wish it would support more playstyles than people with an e-sports mentality who play games to prove something to themselves. And I wish we could discuss that without some people attacking us. Oh my.

 

For instance, why are there so many jumping elements? I suck at jumping, and I wish there were just alternative ways to solve a quest. Or why are the solo story instances locked to other players? In SWTOR I could take in a buddy when my story instance boss was too hard. Here, if it doesn't work I am stuck, end of story. Happened to me now too often, and it beats the idea of a MMO, when you just can't take some help along in vital parts of a game! And stuff like morse code... sorry, it is my idea of riddles and puzzles that you can solve them with logic, with your own thoughts not some external decoding software or external info. That's just BS. I want ingame clues to riddles and be able to solve a riddle by thinking, not by consulting some website or program or what.

Exactly!  You said it much better than I ever could. While I enjoy the varying degree of quest types in TSW, making them have only ONE solution makes me feel like I'm playing a Single Player console game.  I too suck at the platforming quests and have logged off in frustration numerous times already because I hate having to keep trying over and over and over instead of being given the option to change tactics and try a completely different way.   

I agree about the Investigation quests, too.  They aren't based in logic but on your internet research skills.  Makes it more like a job then a game.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Elikal

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I welcome you to try and make an MMO that caters to all different playstyles and still manages to not annoy everyone.

It just doesn't work that way. We need different MMOs that each cater to a specific playstyle, thus ensuring that a) the players playing it feel at home and b) the ones who don't like that certain playstyle stay away.

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

 

Utter crock. WoW didn't cater to sandbox playstyle, nor to those who like the tough, unforgiving and hard playstyle as seen in older MMO's like FFXI or EQ or the FFA PvP environments of some MMO's. Just to name a few MMO's. WoW crafting was no delight for true crafting fans, nor was there the option of creating your own home and decorating it like even an EQ2 had. All different playstyles that MMO gamers might like. None of them in WoW.

SO stop rewriting history to some 'oh, but WoW that I loved very very very much was soooo much better and had EVERYTHING than any MMO gamer might want', because it's a lie. WoW was accessible, smooth and the gameplay it had - which didn't cater at all to all different kinds of playstyles as shown above nor were its features the best ever done - was fun, accessible and entertaining enough to a considerable part of the mainstream population. Lowest common denominator, just like when a tv show or pop music artist or music trend gets hugely famous, it isn't because they're so varied, it can be a small set of things it offers, only done well appealing enough to appeal to a broad mainstream population.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Elikal

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I welcome you to try and make an MMO that caters to all different playstyles and still manages to not annoy everyone.

It just doesn't work that way. We need different MMOs that each cater to a specific playstyle, thus ensuring that a) the players playing it feel at home and b) the ones who don't like that certain playstyle stay away.

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

 

It did try it's very hardest. WoW is the very deffinition of what you get when you try to cater to everyone. A bland and flavourless game with skinner conditioning tricks galore. You can keep your games which cater to the 99% and shove them, they are what is wrong with this genre, stop trying to break every god damn aspect of my hobby down to the lowest possible denominator.

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Elikal

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

 

Utter crock. WoW didn't cater to sandbox playstyle, nor to those who like the tough, unforgiving and hard playstyle as seen in older MMO's like FFXI or EQ or the FFA PvP environments of some MMO's. Just to name a few MMO's. WoW crafting was no delight for true crafting fans, nor was there the option of creating your own home and decorating it like even an EQ2 had. All different playstyles that MMO gamers might like. None of them in WoW.

 

SO stop rewriting history to some 'oh, but WoW that I loved very very very much was soooo much better and had EVERYTHING than any MMO gamer might want', because it's a lie. WoW was accessible, smooth and the gameplay it had - which didn't cater at all to all different kinds of playstyles as shown above nor were its features the best ever done - was fun, accessible and entertaining enough to a considerable part of the mainstream population. Lowest common denominator, just like when a tv show or pop music artist or music trend gets hugely famous, it isn't because they're so varied, it can be a small set of things it offers, only done well appealing enough to appeal to a broad mainstream population.

 I almost fell out of chair laughing when he said that WOW catered to many playstyles.

• Players who like setting up house don't like WOW.
• Players who like crafting and an economy run by players aren't going to like WOW.
• Players who hate fantasy aren't going to like WOW
• Players who like a good story aren't going to like WOW
• Players who like free for all PVP aren't going to like WOW

I never got into it because the questing was so monotonous and boring. WOW succeeded because it had a big fanbase from it's IP and did what it did well. But a game that catered to many playstyles? Give me a break.

Originally posted by elocke

Exactly!  You said it much better than I ever could. While I enjoy the varying degree of quest types in TSW, making them have only ONE solution makes me feel like I'm playing a Single Player console game.  I too suck at the platforming quests and have logged off in frustration numerous times already because I hate having to keep trying over and over and over instead of being given the option to change tactics and try a completely different way.   

I agree about the Investigation quests, too.  They aren't based in logic but on your internet research skills.  Makes it more like a job then a game.

 Yeah...I'm not real sure why eli and you play mmos anymore. All I ever see you doing is complaining about them. Doesn't seem to me like anything will satisfy you after your honeymoon period is over.

Having only one solution to a quest makes it feel like a single player game? Care to tell us what mmo allows for several different ways to complete a quest? Can't say I can think of any.

Far as investigation missions go. What do you want them to be? They're pretty much exactly what they always said they would be.

...and there are puzzles involved in some of them. Just ask those that have thrown their monitor through a window over the crystal one in "The Big Terrible Picture"

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Elikal

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

 

Utter crock. WoW didn't cater to sandbox playstyle, nor to those who like the tough, unforgiving and hard playstyle as seen in older MMO's like FFXI or EQ or the FFA PvP environments of some MMO's. Just to name a few MMO's. WoW crafting was no delight for true crafting fans, nor was there the option of creating your own home and decorating it like even an EQ2 had. All different playstyles that MMO gamers might like. None of them in WoW.

 

SO stop rewriting history to some 'oh, but WoW that I loved very very very much was soooo much better and had EVERYTHING than any MMO gamer might want', because it's a lie. WoW was accessible, smooth and the gameplay it had - which didn't cater at all to all different kinds of playstyles as shown above nor were its features the best ever done - was fun, accessible and entertaining enough to a considerable part of the mainstream population. Lowest common denominator, just like when a tv show or pop music artist or music trend gets hugely famous, it isn't because they're so varied, it can be a small set of things it offers, only done well appealing enough to appeal to a broad mainstream population.

 I almost fell out of chair laughing when he said that WOW catered to many playstyles.

• Players who like setting up house don't like WOW.
• Players who like crafting and an economy run by players aren't going to like WOW.
• Players who hate fantasy aren't going to like WOW
• Players who like a good story aren't going to like WOW
• Players who like free for all PVP aren't going to like WOW

I never got into it because the questing was so monotonous and boring. WOW succeeded because it had a big fanbase from it's IP and did what it did well. But a game that catered to many playstyles? Give me a break.

WoW covered a lot of different tastes, and the fact so many play it is proof beyond any narrow minded critique. Sucess is better proof than words, unless you are a cynic who believe all people but you are dumb sheep.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Elikal

Since games expect us to pay, that is a reasonable enough stance. I never could understand this "then game isn't for you"-mentality. Should MMOs not cater many playstyles and many different strokes and wants? Why narrow a game down to only one kind of player? How is that a good concept?

Really, I wish MMOs would just stop forcing us down only ONE path and ONE playstyle.

I welcome you to try and make an MMO that caters to all different playstyles and still manages to not annoy everyone.

It just doesn't work that way. We need different MMOs that each cater to a specific playstyle, thus ensuring that a) the players playing it feel at home and b) the ones who don't like that certain playstyle stay away.

 

It is the one thing the famous 99% just didn't get about the success of World of Warcraft. The only magic it had was, it catered many different playstyles, and it was NOT narrowed down to only one sort of player. That is THE main reason why most MMOs after WOW failed, the emphasized on ONE strength at the entire neglectance of every other part. Sure, thos games have their niche audience, but they also passed into obscurity all too soon. As long as people don't get it, there is little hope we see a triple AAA MMO that offers something for many people.

And is not even our taste as individuals changing? One day I want a hard and difficult PVP battle and the other day I want to be an entertainer to make music, and the other day I just want to explore. Even I alone have such a multitude of daily changing wants from my MMO. Why do we need 5 MMOs for 5 different wishes of one person? Would it not be ideal, if we had all these things in ONE MMO, as WOW had? And before you say "go back to WOW", I played it enough. It's old.

Go back to WoW..

Originally posted by Elikal

WoW covered a lot of different tastes, and the fact so many play it is proof beyond any narrow minded critique. Sucess is better proof than words, unless you are a cynic who believe all people but you are dumb sheep.

 WoW's success was because of a multitude of different things. Besides one of the things many balk and reason for games failing or not living up to their potential is that they're too WoW like or a WoW clone. Haven't I even heard you use this complaint before?

Now you want this game...one that some amusingly say is a WoW clone within itself to be more like WoW.

Must be great to be a dev.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Elikal

WoW covered a lot of different tastes, and the fact so many play it is proof beyond any narrow minded critique. Sucess is better proof than words, unless you are a cynic who believe all people but you are dumb sheep.

 WoW's success was because of a multitude of different things. Besides one of the things many balk and reason for games failing or not living up to their potential is that they're too WoW like or a WoW clone. Haven't I even heard you use this complaint before?

Now you want this game...one that some amusingly say is a WoW clone within itself to be more like WoW.

Must be great to be a dev.

As one who can differentiate between my individual whims and wishes and what works with a large and diverse crowd, I would not say WOW was my fav MMO. My fav MMos were SWG and EQ2. I loved housing and being entertainer. But WoW has not been this tiny, overspecialized sort of MMO we have almost only seen since WOW.

And see how exceptions run well, Lotro and Rift have also been more broad MMOs. No, of course they have not covered *everything*, and not even most things I as individuals would love, but much more than SWTOR or TSW which both basically rely on one strength, story + VO in the case of SWTOR and puzzles + setting in the case of TSW. I don't think a MMO has to cater EVERY possible MMO player, but is it conveivable that a MMO does offer more than just one solution, one crowd of players? I say that is the true hallmark of a grand MMO, not overspecialization.

Of course it us much easier to mindlessly bash WoW, knowing you will get enough applause with nihilistic cynism in our days.

 

"The cynic is a parasite, who lives only from the civilization he attacks."

- José Ortega y Gasset