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The Secret World Forum » General Discussion » Does the combat still suck?

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42 posts found
  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

10/07/13 9:51:02 AM#21
Originally posted by Kimikaze
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Actually i agree with the OP...

 

 

This game does many many things best in buiseness...

 

However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

 

...

Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...


 

And what game would that be? I would love to play a game with no set rotation, where I have a lot of skills at my disposal to use in any situation I am forced to adapt to. Please I am dying to hear about this.

One recent example could be Neverwinter witch has a far more active reactionary approach to the combat. Even Guild Wars 2 has it with it's dodging implementation. 

This is such a fallacy that I cant stay silent.

TSW has dodge as well, which is absolutely CRITICAL to most of the end-game fights. If you stand at one spot for more than a few seconds, you usually die to some AoE boss mechanics. You have to be aware all the time of the surroundings; this is one of the most reactive and action-based combat out there. The skills does not root you to the ground and everything, including your DPS or healing rotation, requires perfect timing TOGETHER with moving around avoiding boss's abilities.

This game has few skills? This game has over 600 skills. From aoe stuns, through short-distance teleports, threat-reducers, dots, crowd control, chained reactions, impairs, buffs, debuffs, dispels, speed buffs to all kinds of healing, temporary regenerations, mitigation bonuses and EVERYTHING ELSE you actually see in other games, which YOU CAN COMBINE any way you like AND on the run (you don't need to see a trainer, you can switch abilities anytime when you're out of combat even inside a 5-man instance). 

YOU take tactical decisions what sorts of abilities you will need for the upcoming fight. Apart from 2 obvious single-target DPS, you have 6 other slots for UTILITY abilities like AOE, BUFFS, DEBUFFS, aggro utilizers or whatever abilities you think will help you. You are able completely rebuild your character from one boss to another, IF THAT doesn't give you enough TACTICAL OPTIONS, then I don't know what does, and I URGE you to mention at least game you think have sufficient tactical options.

REALITY CHECK

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 860

10/07/13 2:26:38 PM#22
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually i agree with the OP...

 

This game does many many things best in buiseness...

 

However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

 

Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

 

 

Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

Yeah, only you have like five options lol

Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

10/07/13 4:55:21 PM#23
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually i agree with the OP...

 

This game does many many things best in buiseness...

 

However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

 

Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

 

 

Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

Yeah, only you have like five options lol

Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

Ok but there are actually 7 active and 7 passive slots, not 5. You actually have 8 active slots when you start using the aux weapons. Let's at least be accurate about what is possible. With 525 abilities that can be slotted in the deck, you actually have room for a lot of combos and variety. Work in active and passive synergies and there's quite a bit of depth there.

Dodging and moving is a big part of combat too. Fine if you aren't interested in learning how to create an interesting deck, but plenty others are having fun with the system.

  TheRealDarkeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 273

“I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

10/07/13 6:56:36 PM#24
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually i agree with the OP...

 

This game does many many things best in buiseness...

 

However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

 

Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

 

 

Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

Yeah, only you have like five options lol

Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

Yeah, another poster said it but there are seven active slots and seven passive slots.  That makes 14 slots.

 

And the tactics comes from matching synergies and creating the right build for the right moment.  I don't see how Two rows of action bars on each side of your screen and a huge action bar on the bottom as tactical.  Lol, you end up using the same rotations in games with more slots too....

  FlyByKnight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 488

10/07/13 7:18:08 PM#25

I've never heard the words "Too few skills" and The Secret World used in a sentence before. That's a new one.

 

The combat is actually decent and is a cool mix of "action" and tab target. If it were up to me things would be a bit less traditional and a little more action. The game could use way better animations though and more variation of them. Things need a bit more balancing as well.

 

OP talked about wanting "auto attack", so I can what mentality they might have. Combat doesn't suck my friend, it's just not for YOU.  You want macros and to stand in one place while you chat and eat snacks. I don't judge you.

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1001

10/07/13 8:03:43 PM#26

My only issue with combat in this game is that the combat animation feels disjointed...

 

Other than that there is nothing wrong with the mechanics or the system itself.

  Reehay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 178

10/07/13 8:51:00 PM#27

ya to be bluntly honest.. the combat is mediocre at best. Not fluid, not interesting, animations and effects are poor.

You play The Secret World for the cool story and setting... not for the combat. 

  BlahTeeb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/09
Posts: 628

10/07/13 9:04:47 PM#28

There are a lot of tactics in the game. However... when you don't use the tactics, the gameplay is still nearly identical. I've taken multiple characters that I have never played (one of my girlfriend's, and one of my sister's) and the gameplay requires very little tactics. They are there, but they are far from being needed. They are just there to shorten combat by 10 or 20 seconds.  

Like many have said on top, the theme is the best in the genre. The stories are the best in the genre. The entire idea and concept is the best in the genre. The animations and combat though, are incredibly dull and boring. 

  FlyByKnight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 488

10/08/13 5:45:40 PM#29

If you play PVP you'll understand how awesome messing with builds is.  I'm never satisfied.  I'm always tweaking and messing around.

 

I hope other developers borrow and refine Funcoms concept.  It's great. 

 

I could only imagine how great TSW would have been with better animations and more attention to detail.

  TribeofOne

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 973

10/08/13 5:48:59 PM#30
I doubt we'll ever see major improvements to combat or animations. read some of Joels responses in the forum q&a TSW is down to a bare skeleton crew, everyone who could do the work is working on their Lego game.
  TheRealDarkeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 273

“I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

10/08/13 8:38:33 PM#31
Originally posted by TribeofOne
I doubt we'll ever see major improvements to combat or animations. read some of Joels responses in the forum q&a TSW is down to a bare skeleton crew, everyone who could do the work is working on their Lego game.

And that is the tragedy really.  One of the best MMO games out there and only the minimum of support.... 

  Kimikaze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/12
Posts: 10

10/11/13 11:06:10 AM#32

I can partly agree with some of the counter arguments. There is definitely room for creating fun decks/builds or boring, but effective (or boring and completely ineffective) decks in the system. Dodge is a more active ability that breaks your dps rotation and you have to use at the right moments, but I feel like it is better implemented in other games. Can you really dodge out of anything in PvP? It's really only used to give a small speed boost when you need it. The cooldown also feels like it's far too long to be a important part of the combat. I would like to see improvements to dodge, and more active abilities like it.

When it comes to the ability to move and cast at the same time, that only takes away a important decision you have to make in some other games. Should you attack, or move to keep alive? Taking away this choice/dilemma might have given the combat a action feel to it, but has it really made the combat any better. I feel like they should have added other important decisions to make during combat to compensate for this. Decisions that breaks up your dps rotations more and makes timing more important then the perfect dps rotation. A simple example from fps games would be when to reload your weapons. A simple concept that adds a important decision you have to make and time. I feel like TSW is like a fps where you don't have to reload your weapons sometimes, or at least can't chose yourself when to reload.

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

10/14/13 4:15:02 AM#33
I found circle straffing got me through most things though I did not get to 'end game'. What I'd like to know is whether the combat is much 'crisper'? Leaving the mechanics aside I found the implementation felt a bit unresponsive. (Though nowhere near as bad as the recent FF for example). I'm considering another try, I'd like to get to 'the end' at some point.
  Kimikaze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/12
Posts: 10

10/14/13 10:38:04 AM#34
Originally posted by Gorilla
I found circle straffing got me through most things though I did not get to 'end game'. What I'd like to know is whether the combat is much 'crisper'? Leaving the mechanics aside I found the implementation felt a bit unresponsive. (Though nowhere near as bad as the recent FF for example). I'm considering another try, I'd like to get to 'the end' at some point.

Don't think there has been any changes, but that unresponsive feel might not be a problem for all weapons, so might be worth checking out other weapons. Also the ability queue system can make it feel a bit unresponsive, but that is something you can get used to, or simply turn off in settings. There is a lot of cool content in the game so I would recommend giving it another try 

  Pekish79

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/06
Posts: 90

10/14/13 1:32:28 PM#35

I am surprise people cannot see both side of the problem... maybe they don't play it much

 

I can easily see why they say is unresponsive and chuncky

as easily as i can see why many conside it very good.

 

 

let's start with why people see it unresponsice/chuncky

 

part because of the animation but moslty because of the waiting time after you press the button before u need to press it again even in istant skill... make it feel like ur character is not doing what u are telling him to do

 

add to it the fact that there is a queue by default "on" and if u double/triple smash the button too fast the queue tend to overlap the command and ignore some of them player feel clueless of what happened!

 

have u ever tried to push "slight of hand" (SOH anti CC) because u see the enemy animation of his impair but your toon is still doing the consumer and it won't let you "SOH" in time this is why lot of people hate this system. They feel they have no control they feel they need to wait = chuncky

 

there is a time a rythm that go with the battle that is not "smashing" type u dont need to 1-1-1-1-1 in .3 second and if you do 1-1-1-1-4-5-1-1-7 in .7 second u have a high chance that 4 never happen or 7 will happen in the next 2 second ehehe even if u wanted it NOW

 

Add to the fact that some skill has a fairly slow target check (like Pull the string for example) and you push it and nothing happen because due to lag or ping ur enemy is not exactly in the right position... I hear your frustration! I do totally understand why people (smashing button crowd) really really hate this combat BUT...

 

So many time i dance my way to pull the string  (5 resource) and nothing happens and start smashing it like if that could make it magically happen but it deosn't since my target moved out of the los and let's not count the time i push immutable that has a quite insane long time to activate... (plus sometimes the cooldown bug show button not more grey even if still in cooldown!)

 

BUT...

 

on the ohter hand as much as it does piss me off here and there i love the rythm it require i love the slow/fast peace it require and i love the fact u cannot just base the fight on ur reflex but you need to anticipate and calculate when to use what

 

knowing that both in pve and in pvp if u start a consumer it has a certain time required as it should be (you cannot deal the most damage thinking is as istant as the lower damage) and u need to keep in consideration that in that half second u will be vulnerable and focused in doing that big damage and u cannot expect it to be able to dodge and SOH at same time

 

There is some sort of skill that is not only Monkey-Reflex skill needed some rythm of the battle some premonition of what's going to happen next... strategy that go behond the action/reaction of a fps.

 

So i totally know WHY some people feel the combat "slow/chuncky" but i hoentsly like it because of it.

You need to understand the combat to like it some people don't or perhaps is not what they are looking for! I personally hate FPS and i am so sad to see all MMORPG going away from strategy gameplay to please that Monkey-Crowd, also known as "i win because my ping is 20 and i can push a keyboard botton in 0.03sec vs urs 0.05.."

Graz! u should write that in ur curriculum vitae

 

I am happy that TSW is one of the last strategic combat system around in a world of fps-style mmo and i understand why some people hate it ^_^ too bad for you as i love it this way

  sinbsd

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/05
Posts: 4

10/14/13 9:31:13 PM#36

Love the combat. The lore in this game is super interesting. I'm so tired of grinding constantly in other mmo's. This is just an outstanding game with great visuals, fascinating stories and challenging tasks. One of the few F2P games out there that I decided was worth subscribing to anyways. Yes, I'm happily paying $15 / month even though I don't have to but I'd rather do so and have the game continue than have them run out of cash.

So much love for this game and the combat that it's ridiculous.

  iridescence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/31/13 12:35:00 AM#37
Originally posted by Thillian

I find the combat to be among the best in the genre, and it's the main reason why I still play the game.

The combat is extremely fast and/or slow and everything in between depending on your build and choice of gear.

Can you give an example of some skills I should go for if I want slower paced combat?  The combat in games like GW2 annoys me with its speed. Often I feel like I'm just hopping around like a retard in that game rather than thinking and reacting. Would like to play a newer game with slower paced tactical combat.

 

 

  Pekish79

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/06
Posts: 90

11/03/13 11:38:53 AM#38

is not about skill is more about role

the fastest role is probably Melee-DPS you are down there in the center u have to move a lot and you die quick

the slowest role are tank as you don't die fast at all but you depend a lot from the healer and the assist range dps (not the glass cannon type)

you have range u stay out observe the fight and pick the right target... it's very important you pick the right target to kill that is not always the healer (like you may think if u play other MMO where healer goes always first)

Here healer can be heal-tank or glance-heal full-heal etcetc... and if u don't have the right set of skill you end up healing them more then damaging them with ur dps

 

Is not a chess game u still have to move around to a certain degree of speed but is very much strategic in the sense that u cannot shoot randomly the enemy and it always work if u have the highest dps... a lot depend from the composition of your group and their group and tactic must change accordingly

problem is to really appreciate it you have to have a build flexibility that is not possible for beginners i have like 7 builts 4 tank built 2 dps 1 healer all of them with purple gear that allow me to change role if needed by my team

This is obviously impossible to do for new player so the curve to start pvp right now is quite steep as you are very dependent to the single role you decide to invest first and you may be very ineffective vs one specific enemy, and if you meet him there is nothing u can do (other then change built but u cant as you don't have gear nor open skill yet)

  Bjelar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/12
Posts: 383

11/04/13 1:31:37 PM#39
Originally posted by Pekish79

I am surprise people cannot see both side of the problem... maybe they don't play it much

 

I can easily see why they say is unresponsive and chuncky

as easily as i can see why many conside it very good.

 

 

let's start with why people see it unresponsice/chuncky

 

part because of the animation but moslty because of the waiting time after you press the button before u need to press it again even in istant skill... make it feel like ur character is not doing what u are telling him to do

 

add to it the fact that there is a queue by default "on" and if u double/triple smash the button too fast the queue tend to overlap the command and ignore some of them player feel clueless of what happened!

 

have u ever tried to push "slight of hand" (SOH anti CC) because u see the enemy animation of his impair but your toon is still doing the consumer and it won't let you "SOH" in time this is why lot of people hate this system. They feel they have no control they feel they need to wait = chuncky

 

there is a time a rythm that go with the battle that is not "smashing" type u dont need to 1-1-1-1-1 in .3 second and if you do 1-1-1-1-4-5-1-1-7 in .7 second u have a high chance that 4 never happen or 7 will happen in the next 2 second ehehe even if u wanted it NOW

 

Add to the fact that some skill has a fairly slow target check (like Pull the string for example) and you push it and nothing happen because due to lag or ping ur enemy is not exactly in the right position... I hear your frustration! I do totally understand why people (smashing button crowd) really really hate this combat BUT...

 

So many time i dance my way to pull the string  (5 resource) and nothing happens and start smashing it like if that could make it magically happen but it deosn't since my target moved out of the los and let's not count the time i push immutable that has a quite insane long time to activate... (plus sometimes the cooldown bug show button not more grey even if still in cooldown!)

 

BUT...

 

on the ohter hand as much as it does piss me off here and there i love the rythm it require i love the slow/fast peace it require and i love the fact u cannot just base the fight on ur reflex but you need to anticipate and calculate when to use what

 

knowing that both in pve and in pvp if u start a consumer it has a certain time required as it should be (you cannot deal the most damage thinking is as istant as the lower damage) and u need to keep in consideration that in that half second u will be vulnerable and focused in doing that big damage and u cannot expect it to be able to dodge and SOH at same time

 

There is some sort of skill that is not only Monkey-Reflex skill needed some rythm of the battle some premonition of what's going to happen next... strategy that go behond the action/reaction of a fps.

 

So i totally know WHY some people feel the combat "slow/chuncky" but i hoentsly like it because of it.

You need to understand the combat to like it some people don't or perhaps is not what they are looking for! I personally hate FPS and i am so sad to see all MMORPG going away from strategy gameplay to please that Monkey-Crowd, also known as "i win because my ping is 20 and i can push a keyboard botton in 0.03sec vs urs 0.05.."

Graz! u should write that in ur curriculum vitae

 

I am happy that TSW is one of the last strategic combat system around in a world of fps-style mmo and i understand why some people hate it ^_^ too bad for you as i love it this way

 

I recently bought a decent enough laptop (MSI GX60), and I finally got the whole "TSW combat suck" thing.

Combat really does suck, playing TSW on my laptop :(

I am 90% sure that explains 90% of the critisism against TSW combat. I`ve been scratching my head since launch, trying to understand how so many people could find the fluent, elegant TSW combat "cluncky". Now I understand.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

11/04/13 4:47:07 PM#40
Originally posted by Bjelar
Originally posted by Pekish79

 

 

I recently bought a decent enough laptop (MSI GX60), and I finally got the whole "TSW combat suck" thing.

Combat really does suck, playing TSW on my laptop :(

I am 90% sure that explains 90% of the critisism against TSW combat. I`ve been scratching my head since launch, trying to understand how so many people could find the fluent, elegant TSW combat "cluncky". Now I understand.

I wonder what percentage of the combat criticisms are due to:

- Dislike of animations (even with a high-powered PC)

- Underpowered video card/CPU

- Default settings too high (DX11/high settings vs DX9 or lower)

- Misunderstanding the ability wheel and deck system

- Server lag

- Builder/consumer mechanic

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