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The Secret World Forum » General Discussion » Dispelling some myths

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80 posts found
  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

1/30/13 3:53:57 AM#21

This is not a good game, it's a niche game and for people that enjoy it fair enough.  But just accept the fact that it has no major appeal. They missed the mark on this from all sorts of angles and are paying the price (restructuring).   This isn't a game that the majority of gamers just don't get, this is a game that for the majority of gamers has little to no appeal.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1765

1/30/13 4:36:39 AM#22
Originally posted by Aeonblades
I couldn't even make it past the first paragraph without feeling nauseous. What a condescending turd, good to know the Steam forum has them too! TSW is a good game, but this doesn't help lol.

This. (Though I red it through all the paragraphs). Rant won't help at all :) "Sometimes I want to choke people. When I hear this rant it becomes one of those times." man, this dude's got serious issues... not a surprise, with a name like that :)

 

Ortwig's list about the weak initial sales is well-detailed, only I think among those the top problem was the lack of information/marketing. I had the same experience as KeithDragoon, when the game was already live and launched its first free weekend I tried to get some mmo-playing friends into it. Almost every reaction was "TSW? what's that?" (with a couple of "that's the new failcom stuff? no thanks" but you can't help those people anyways :) )

As far as I remember, besides some e-mails (as an AoC player) and the beta events (also as an AoC player, don't know if it was announced publicly at all) there wasn't much advertising of the game pre-launch. Seriously, I received more ad-mails from Funcom about that crappy Bloodline champions than TSW... Ok, there was the Secret war, but it was on facebook... who uses facebook? :)

And after launch the situation didn't evolved much, the game got great reviews from sites, and... that's it. They should've flood the web with those review results, gaming sites, etc. The End of world ARG was a great help in spreading the word, just like Joel's bunker adventure and b2p. The biggest impact (just a personal experience, so it's not a fact) was the nVidia TXAA, a lot of people were reached by that driver, even those who never played mmo's :) (the trial was up by then, I know 2 guys who tried TSW just to check TXAA... sadly they don't subbed)

 

Edit: my bad, the beta was open with Illuminati... and mmorpg gave a t-shirt, that counts as promoting as well :)

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

1/30/13 5:32:57 AM#23
Agree with OP, the nitpicking regarding combat are totally misplaced. Also if anyone says questing in TSW is boring has obviously never played other MMOs. TSW quests are real adventures with story chains and cool puzzles, best mission design ever seen in any MMO, period

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


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The Return of ELITE !

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2255

"Free to play, pay to win""

1/30/13 5:37:01 AM#24
Originally posted by FromHell
Agree with OP, the nitpicking regarding combat are totally misplaced. Also if anyone says questing in TSW is boring has obviously never played other MMOs. TSW quests are real adventures with story chains and cool puzzles, best mission design ever seen in any MMO, period

This, combined with your avatar, made my day. Cheers!

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  Draemos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1448

1/30/13 5:56:14 AM#25
Originally posted by KeithDragoon

The poor sales was due to failure of marketing, 95% of the people I mention this game to even to this day reply first with "I never heard of it" and then "Is it any good?". That alone says alot about why the game did so poorly. Aside from me watching it from the day it was announced until the day it launched there was little to no adverts save the occassional website adds which would be blocked by any decent ad-blocker.

Also the recent success this game has shown with the B2P model also strentghens the point that the game is good just poorly advertised. I have yet to meet a single person I got into this game that didn't liek it and my firends are very picky and dislike 80% of games I throw at them. Game needs some work but is far from bad and very close to fantastic.

While I don't think their marketing helped, I'd say TSWs biggest hurdle is that is doesn't give a great first impression.   The intiial combat feels clunky, the character creator is mediocre with limited clothing options,the animations are uninspired, and the polygon count on NPCs in some of the early cutscenes are distractingly low, and the UI and inventory has a amateurish feel and look. 

i started playing this game no less than 3 times and quit playing within the 1st hour.  It wasn't until I buckled down and forced myself to play it for a full day that I came to truly appreciate how amazing the game is, regardless of its flaws.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4107

Trolls will be ignored

1/30/13 7:54:38 AM#26
It's interesting how for years players complained about WOW clones and yet when a game comes along that doesn't do things the WOW way, they gripe about it. I thought RAIDS were one of the big things that players were tired of? So why complain about the lack of RAIDS?  The quests in TSW are the most challenging I have ever played in an MMO. Unlike WOW, where you have long boring text that doesn't mean anything. Games like SWTOR and TSW are finally making questing more interesting yet players complain about cutscenes while saying "It's all the same thing." Sometimes I think players just don't know what they want. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  NortonGB

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 284

1/30/13 11:46:10 AM#27

If TSW had been released by NCSoft there would be twice the amount playing, while Funcom might not have the same global profile or presence there is potential for this game to be a classic

When you consider that there is still a lot of people playing WoW this has to be on a par with the best PVE mmos ever produced.

There is every chance The Secret World will continue to grow, something that not many do after the initial 6 months, it really is quite good imo.

  EvilGeek

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1237

My freedom relies on yours

1/30/13 1:29:07 PM#28

Playing TSW has been the richest PvE experience I've ever had in a game, from a story, questing and atmosphere perspective it blows the competition out of the water as far as I'm concerned. I don't PvP so have no comment to make on that, the combat though does have its flaws, the animations have improved since release but it still misses that feeling of connecting, there's little weight to it. A user over on the official forum used RP to get over that one: We're not hitting with blades and bullets, we're hitting with our Anima. That doesn't work for all of us though :) I'd still like to see improvement.

Skill system is great, yes some skills overlap, that's inevitable with this kind of system, otherwise using different weapons would be either gimp or over powering. The thing with it is that it gives you plenty of choice in how to approach encounters and build decks to meet different situations, you're never locked in to a role or profession. It uses the trinity system, that's fine, it maybe a little tired but it does the job.

I think, from a PvE/Story perspective it does an absolutely amazing job.


  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4107

Trolls will be ignored

1/30/13 2:40:33 PM#29
Originally posted by fallenlords

This is not a good game, it's a niche game and for people that enjoy it fair enough.  But just accept the fact that it has no major appeal. 

I would think that most who enjoy this game are glad for it's niche appeal and could care less about being the most popular kid on the block. There are more than enough MMOs out there that cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry that TSW wasn't another boring level and text based easy mode game for the ADD crowd. For the rest of us, games like these are a blessing. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1350

1/30/13 3:43:32 PM#30
Originally posted by Ortwig

Here are some of the big myths I see being thrown out about TSW:

  • The combat "sucks" (left intentially vague, because that's the usual amount of detail)
  • It's a grindfest at endgame
  • Only one raid, so there is no endgame (heh.)
  • Nothing special about the investigations -- you just Google the answer
  • Nightmare dungeons are full of elitist jerks, and newbies are never welcome; the community "sucks"
  • You can finish all the content in 3 days
  • It's full of kill X rats quests, just like any other MMO
  • PvP is hopeless
Did I miss anything?  ;D

 

Myths? Half of these are stone cold facts.

PvP is horrible, it IS hopeless, pointless and just a laughable and frustrating experience in it's current form (you have to laugh at how bad it is).

I love TSW's pve, the missions are ace, the setting is really well done but there is no way anyone can defend the pvp, it's awful. Harping on about potential and how no mmo's do pvp well in their first year is utter nonsense and completely irrelevant, justify this statement or stop making such claims.

Endgame isn't exactly a grindfest in the traditional sense, it's more an escalator you ride for no reason other than to get to the next level, which is exactly the same as the previous level save for a few extremely minor additions and shinier kit. There is no grind in the conventional sense, it's like grinding without the grind but with a comparable time sink....hard to explain really.

There is no end game in TSW, it's just more of the same over and over. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, but it's the truth.

It IS full of "kill X" "go to Y" missions, to claim otherwise is a straight-out lie. Sure it has some great storyline missions, some awesome lore missions and the investigation missions, but it is still packed full of the generic mmo staples.

As for finishing the content in 3 days, yep thats a load of baloney, takes most players 2-3 months to complete everything the game has to offer.

Investigations are amazing, but yes many people will just run to youtube or google for the solutions, shame really.

Combat sucks, well thats a matter of opinion, i quite like the combat in TSW but it gets repetitive and boring really fast. Worse still certain builds are simply too good not to use for tanking, healing and DPS. For a game with so many possibilities for builds, the effectiveness of certain skills and combinations renders this mute quickly, not every build is viable for high end, it's a horrible truth. Reality is you can play with builds but eventually you go back to the same basic abilities because they are just so damned good.

Nightmare dungeon PUG's certainly have their fair share of elitist jerks, but obviously not everyone is like this, just most of the more vocal PUG players.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  Ortwig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

 
OP  1/30/13 6:38:02 PM#31

Well, now since we have a conversation going, let me go ahead and put down my own take.  I’ll put in the bad with the good, but, there’s no doubt I love this game, and I’ll argue any blanket, overly generalized statement about TSW.  They are called myths because they don’t tell the whole story. 

The badge-carrying Funcom Haters (I’m looking at you fallenlords and gamesrfun), can ignore the post and continue trolling your absolutes about Funcom to your Funcom-hater audience.  For those who actually have an open mind, well here goes – just skip to the section you want if you don’t want to read the whole tl;dr!

 

“The combat sucks.  The combat is clunky.”

Apart from the people who played 1 hour in beta and say this, what most people are talking about here are the variety and differentiation in animations, the sound effects, and the feedback and reaction of mobs and toons while in combat.  The truth is that the animations are good – I actually feel really heroic while battling it out with my blades/chaos build vs. the cultists and mummies and ghouls that roam the landscape.   Fire off a hot bolt with the Quantum Brace, use Chaotic Pull to reign something in, lay down an Impair with Stunning Swirl, then scorch the earth with Reality Fracture.  It feels damn good.  The movement, the dodging, the getting down in health when it's a tough opponent – finally taking him down (barely).  Combat is challenging and fun -- it’s not an FPS, but few MMOs are.

But many feel there needs to be more variety and differentiation between the abilities on the wheel as well as more “connection” to the character during the combat.  This comes from some long threads on the TSW forums, where it was really necessary to pry out the details from the “combat sucks” people, who don’t seem to know how to articulate their dissatisfaction.  While I agree it could be even better, there’s nothing here that warrants a blanket “combat sucks.”

 

“The combat is just a bunch of button mashing, builder/consumer style”

Combat in TSW is different, has a bit of a learning curve, and requires more study than many MMOs.  You can equip 2 (3 with an aux) weapons, but you also have the entire pool of weapons types (9 + 3 aux) currently) and abilities (over 500) at your disposal, and can eventually have abilities unlocked in ALL of them.  However, what many people do is get their one deck built, and then stick with it through the entire game, basically giving up the freedom they have to try out new weapons and abilities.  Or they just stick the same types of abilities in the same slots in the name of “efficiency” and do the same thing over and over.  It’s amazing how people ask for freedom, but when they get it, they revert to their comfortable patterns.  There are other special abilities that are not builder/consumers, and there are plenty of ways to mix up your rotation, your weapons, and your entire role – any player can dps, tank or heal, and anything in between.  While you are limited to 7 active and 7 passive equipped slots, players have a pool of over 500 abilities they can switch up within that deck.

Bottom line: Animations are decent, and could be even better with some additional variety and tweaks to the animation engine.  The dev team has committed to improving this.  The ability wheel and the variety of builds you can make are very deep.  I know of no other game that allows you to create as many variations in your equipped build, and give you the complete freedom to create awesome (or sucky) decks.  With the freedom you get from TSW, you also have the learning curve difficulty in deciding what to do. 

 

“PvP is Hopeless”

The truth is that it’s a work in progress, but far from hopeless.  Here are the problems:

  • Balance issues in Fusang: the 3 factions – Dragon, Illuminati and Templar – tend to dominate their respective battlegroup (well, not the Dragon), and so the queue system to prevent complete dominance by one faction.  The problem there is that the queue times for the dominant faction can be long.  Dragon will always have an easy time getting into Fusang, and will almost always be the underdog
  • Queue times for the minigames: Getting into the minigames is difficult since there is no way to select all three (Fusang, El Dorado and Stonehenge) queues.  It is very hard to get into El Dorado, although this is one of the most fun battlegrounds
  • The reward system has been nerfed due to the balance issues, and so currently it is difficult to progress in gear thru PvP
  •  Matchmaking is missing from PvP is general, so grizzled vets are often thrown in against complete newbies and crushing them.

So that’s the bad news, but the reason PvP isn’t “hopeless” is that the devs are actually listening and making improvements:

  • The queue for PvP in the next Issue will include queues for all 3 arenas, so if you can’t get into Fusang, you can do El Dorado or Stonehenge.  You’ll actually be able to queue for the minigames from within Fusang as well, freeing up players to get into the arenas more easily all around
  • The reward system will be returning once balancing and numbers are reviewed
  • Matchmaking and PvP ranks are being introduced in the next Issue, which will help with the gear and experience imbalances within the arenas. 
  • While the current Fusang takes a while to get into, you can actually have fun matches today if you get similar experience and gear in at the same time (admittedly a roll of the dice.)  But see the previous bullet.
  • New PvP features coming are open world flagged PvP events, where the factions compete over relics in the zones.  PvE will be unaffected by the open world matches.
  • PvP also has the Fight Clubs for dueling and group matches.  The community schedules monthly matches in these, with prizes handed out for the winners.

Bottom line: PvP, while imperfect, has enough improvements on the way that it cannot be said it is hopeless.   And even with today’s imperfections, there are regulars who participate in PvP regularly, looking for good ways to match (and beat) the other guy’s deck.  They are certainly vocal enough on the forums, so they care enough about PvP in this game to keep things going.

 

“There is only one raid – no endgame”

Endgame is the not just the New York City raid (yes, it’s hard), but add to that the 8 Nightmare Mode dungeons, which are as hard as just about any raid anywhere.  Add to that the 8 Lairs, which are the open world bosses, and you have a decent amount of endgame content.  Farming areas for QL10 geared characters looking for signets are available in most of the zones.

“Puzzle raids” are something they are looking at in future updates, so more endgame to come.

Bottom line: There’s plenty to do at the high end of the game for those power gamers.  But even if you go through all that content, the game is B2P, so take a break and come back later if you want!

 

“Endgame is nothing but a grindfest”

Well, the grinding is completely optional.  If you don’t feel like doing the same nightmare dungeon over and over, don’t!  People do these primarily for the incremental gear improvements at high levels, but since progression pushes out to more horizontal at those levels, you’ll only get modest upgrades.  Quality Level (QL) 10.5 is the highest available currently, but if that’s the way you progress, go for it.  TSW is better than most games at ensuring that gear alone won’t win everything for you – you also have to have created a good set of decks for use in different situations, so while gear is good, you can still get owned if you have created a sucky deck.

Bottom Line: Some people like grind, some don’t – TSW has it if you want it, but it’s not mandatory.

 

“It’s full of kill X quests, just like any other MMO”

There are kill X quests in the game, but they are not as prevalent as in other games, to the point where they are almost a nice break from the thinking quests.  And even with the kill X quests, you may have other obstacles you have to work around before you can get your numbers.  Nothing in TSW is quite as straightforward as it seems.  You may have to figure out how to remove a buff before you can tackle a particular mob, or you’ll get your butt handed to you.  There is an element of thought in all aspects of TSW that is largely missing from other MMOs.

Bottom Line: There are kill X quests, but they are not overpowering, and all the missions have a little something different than your standard MMO quest.

 

“The investigations missions are nothing special – just Google the answer”

Well, why do anything then?  Get someone else to play the game for you while you’re at it!  The investigations are there to challenge your brain and possibly teach you a little something along the way.  Plus they are fun – the rush from figuring out a tough puzzle on your own is very similar to beating a tough boss, and it’s one of the most innovative aspects of the game.  Translate some Egyptian hieroglyphs, figure out the reference to a Bible passage, unlock the secret door given clues from a passage in an Edgar Allen Poe novel.  If you hate this sort of thing in an MMO, then I would definitely give the game a pass, but if you have always liked ciphers, puzzled and Myst-like gameplay, TSW does an excellent job of challenging you.

Bottom Line: Investigations are fantastic and something that’s been missing from the MMO genre.

 

“You can finish all the content in 4 days”

Sure.  You can finish it all if you play 24x7 and Google all the walkthrus.  Or just farm all the stuff and skip all the content and go straight to endgame.  If you are a content locust, or hate missions or story, I’d recommend staying away.  This is a PvE game with some of the best story and atmosphere around – if you want to trash all that on your way to endgame, be my guest, but don’t diss it for the people who like the journey.

For those counting though, there are approx. 60 missions each in 8 zones with each missions ranging from  1-6 tiers, each tier being a significant step.  Plus 8 dungeons (normal, elite and nightmare mode), 8 Lairs, 1 Raid, RP content with the Albion Theater.  Tokyo is coming in 2013.

Bottom line:There is plenty of interesting stuff to do as long as you slow down long enough to enjoy it.

 

Nightmare dungeons are full of elitist jerks, and newbies are never welcome; the community "sucks"

There are elitist jerks in every MMO, and TSW is no exception (especially in Agartha).  What is different, however, is that the TSW community actually has cabals and groups who are open to newbies and casuals to do things like nightmares.  General chat is filled with helpful people explaining stuff to new people without the attitude.  Checkout the noobmares group on the forums if you are looking to start up nightmare dungeons and get your feet wet.

Bottom line: If you raise your hand and ask to do casual or newbie stuff, there are folks who will respond.

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

1/31/13 5:09:34 AM#32
Originally posted by ktanner3

I would think that most who enjoy this game are glad for it's niche appeal and could care less about being the most popular kid on the block. There are more than enough MMOs out there that cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry that TSW wasn't another boring level and text based easy mode game for the ADD crowd. For the rest of us, games like these are a blessing. 

Fair enough it being niche, if that was the aim.  But Funcom went out to make a mainstream MMO with major appeal.   It didn't work, as a result the company is suffering and has had to alter it's whole strategy.   

 

Threads like this dispel no myths, people have played the game.  The 'majority' of people interested in MMO's didn't like the game.  No innovation, dull gameplay, nothing special about the game at all.  Just a lot of reworked principles based loosely on a Lovecraftian themed backdrop that is about as scary as a cuddly teddy bear.  It pushes no boundaries, has mediocre industry reviews and  is nothing more than an 'average' game.

  Ortwig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

 
OP  1/31/13 9:20:27 PM#33
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by ktanner3

I would think that most who enjoy this game are glad for it's niche appeal and could care less about being the most popular kid on the block. There are more than enough MMOs out there that cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry that TSW wasn't another boring level and text based easy mode game for the ADD crowd. For the rest of us, games like these are a blessing. 

Fair enough it being niche, if that was the aim.  But Funcom went out to make a mainstream MMO with major appeal.   It didn't work, as a result the company is suffering and has had to alter it's whole strategy.   

 

Threads like this dispel no myths, people have played the game.  The 'majority' of people interested in MMO's didn't like the game.  No innovation, dull gameplay, nothing special about the game at all.  Just a lot of reworked principles based loosely on a Lovecraftian themed backdrop that is about as scary as a cuddly teddy bear.  It pushes no boundaries, has mediocre industry reviews and  is nothing more than an 'average' game.

Plenty of innovation with thinking quests, no levels, the ability wheel, and the openness to equip every weapon and ability in the game. Good reviews, both from mainstream press and from users (Metacritic Users 8.2):

 
Also receved 2 awards in 2012:
 
 
If you like the X-Files and Indiana Jones, you'll like TSW.  
  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/01/13 4:44:55 AM#34

Again you are defending mediocrity.  

 

Funcom actually blamed the poor performance of TSW on the initial Metacritic score.  For it now to be used in a promotional vain is quite bizarre.  They even blamed the drop in share price on Metacritic.   The fact it's improved since probably means somebody, looking at nobody on here in particular,  has been very active to bump it up.

 

Both IGN and Gamespot give TSW a very average score, 7.0 and 7.5 respectively.  

 

Awards voted for by the press writing the articles, kind of brings into question how much advertising revenue they are receiving or any under the table deals.   An award such as the Golden Joysticks where actual people vote I always find is a better true reflection.   World of Tanks won best MMO,  runners up League of Legends and Star Wars the Old Republic.  TSW was on the list but alas won nothing.

  Ortwig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

 
OP  2/01/13 8:19:43 AM#35
Originally posted by fallenlords

Again you are defending mediocrity.  

Funcom actually blamed the poor performance of TSW on the initial Metacritic score.  For it now to be used in a promotional vain is quite bizarre.  They even blamed the drop in share price on Metacritic.   The fact it's improved since probably means somebody, looking at nobody on here in particular,  has been very active to bump it up.

Both IGN and Gamespot give TSW a very average score, 7.0 and 7.5 respectively.  

Awards voted for by the press writing the articles, kind of brings into question how much advertising revenue they are receiving or any under the table deals.   An award such as the Golden Joysticks where actual people vote I always find is a better true reflection.   World of Tanks won best MMO,  runners up League of Legends and Star Wars the Old Republic.  TSW was on the list but alas won nothing.

Or maybe they just liked the game -- you should really play TSW, you'd love all the conspiracy theories.  User scores on Metacritic were always high.

Oh, and please stop speaking for 'everyone.'  While you may find it hard to believe, people actually do have minds and can decide for themselves.

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/01/13 9:06:21 AM#36
Originally posted by Ortwig

Or maybe they just liked the game -- you should really play TSW, you'd love all the conspiracy theories.  User scores on Metacritics were always high.

Oh, and please stop speaking for 'everyone.'  While you may find it hard to believe, people actually do have minds and can decide for themselves.

I understand what your mean now about Metacritic, the user score is 8.2.   But isn't the score that really matters is the 73 out 100 from the critics?  I mean user scores are mostly biased anyway.  For example I would score TSW about 3/10 but I have not bothered to go onto Metacritic.   Isn't it the critic score the one that pops up on Steam and the one that most games are judged by overall?  Not being a user I don't fully understand the scoring. 

 

I have played TSW and I saw no innovation at all.  It's a fair game, but nothing grabbed me.  I consider myself an average gamer and  I like the popular games.  There are very few occasions when a gem of a game gets under the general gaming radar, TSW certainly isn't one of those.  For those that like TSW then fine.   But to make out like peoples original reasons for disliking the game are not justified. To term them as 'myths' makes it look like their reasons where fictitious which is just false.  At the time the majority of the criticism was totally justified in my view.  Nothing was imagined for example TSW might have a raid now but it didn't launch with a raid.  So it wasn't a myth TSW had no raids, because it launched with no raids. A myth is something that has no determinable basis of fact.

 

And why am I speaking for everyone? If anything you are the one trying to dispel what you consider to be popular belief not me.

 

  Ortwig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1023

 
OP  2/01/13 10:17:08 AM#37
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by Ortwig

Or maybe they just liked the game -- you should really play TSW, you'd love all the conspiracy theories.  User scores on Metacritics were always high.

Oh, and please stop speaking for 'everyone.'  While you may find it hard to believe, people actually do have minds and can decide for themselves.

I understand what your mean now about Metacritic, the user score is 8.2.   But isn't the score that really matters is the 73 out 100 from the critics?  I mean user scores are mostly biased anyway.  For example I would score TSW about 3/10 but I have not bothered to go onto Metacritic.   Isn't it the critic score the one that pops up on Steam and the one that most games are judged by overall?  Not being a user I don't fully understand the scoring. 

 

I have played TSW and I saw no innovation at all.  It's a fair game, but nothing grabbed me.  I consider myself an average gamer and  I like the popular games.  There are very few occasions when a gem of a game gets under the general gaming radar, TSW certainly isn't one of those.  For those that like TSW then fine.   But to make out like peoples original reasons for disliking the game are not justified. To term them as 'myths' makes it look like their reasons where fictitious which is just false.  At the time the majority of the criticism was totally justified in my view.  Nothing was imagined for example TSW might have a raid now but it didn't launch with a raid.  So it wasn't a myth TSW had no raids, because it launched with no raids. A myth is something that has no determinable basis of fact.

 

And why am I speaking for everyone? If anything you are the one trying to dispel what you consider to be popular belief not me. 

I don't know -- how does any review matter?  I tend to read the both the professional reviews and the user reviews -- the ones that are better written, or that make more sense to me tend to get more weight than badly written ones or reviews that feel as if the reviewer didn't do his or her homework.  In a nutshell, if I feel the reviewer (professional or not) gave the game a fair shake, played the game for a decent amount of time, and really looked at it from all angles, then I'll take it into consideration.  But most of all, I'll play the game and decide for myself.  Rarely does a review postiive or negative prevent or impel me to play/not play a game.   For those who really are on a tighter budget, I can see how reviews or free trials make a bigger difference.  

 

Metacritic User Reviews I think are just as valid as any other, and I thought it was silly when Funcom pointed to the Metacritic reviews when they obviously got good reviews many other quarters -- I listed the real reasons I think TSW didn't do so well earlier in this thread.  Since that time (and with more players giving the game real playing time and a fair shake), we're seeing more people saying things like "hidden gem" but hey, people have different priorities and tastes.  One guy I posted he had tried on 3 separate occasions to get into it, and couldn't, but only when he forced himself to play a full day did he see how good the game was.  TSW is not a grab-you-by-the-lapels kind of game -- it grows on you.  The best quote I have seen:

To use a Hollywood analogy, GW2 is a summer blockbuster, and TSW is a Sundance festival indie film. The first is fun and light entertainment, and definitely worth seeing once. The second is much more than that, and worth watching over and over.

I like both GW2 and TSW myself, but I lean more to TSW because its a genre I love, and I needed a bit of a break from fantasy in general.  /shrug

 

Myth to me means partial truth.  In my tl;dr post above I put down plenty of the bad along with the good about TSW.  I never said PvP was perfect, but I also say that there are good aspects to it.  But what I really dislike are these memes that get started based on mob mentality -- sort of a piling on -- where users basically parrot what other people have said -- hence "myth."  What I care about is giving the game a fair shake and telling both sides of the story.  You played it an didn't like it -- fair enough.  Maybe it's niche.  That's okay too -- but to blanket say that the game wholly sucks (or is wholly perfect) does everyone a disservice.

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/01/13 2:36:40 PM#38
How does any review matter?  Reviews are a to most gamers a fundamental part of the buying process.  Because the majority of time you buy a game without truly testing the finished product.    Reviews are even more important when it comes to average games.  Because they are harder to judge.   Theoretically industry reviews of a product are suppose to be done in an impartial journalistic nature, though that doesn't always happen.    User reviews are always biased.

 

Lets face it a game such as TSW is a marmite game.  Some people are going to love the game while others hate it.   Some games are just like that. it doesn't intrinsically make a game good or bad, but it does have a massive impact on perceptions.  You play the game loving it you see a different world, to playing the game hating it.  Doesn't mean either perception is wrong or right.  

 

As far as I saw the so called myths were a checklist of what I found wrong with the game.  I could add initial opening sequence that made me feel suicidal, I want to play a game not watch cut scenes. As for the Hollywood blockbuster, Sundance analogy.  TSW was billed and launched as a Hollywood blockbuster, just because it bombed I am not so sure that it then fits in with the indie analogy.  Failed blockbuster to my mind, and to to most of Funcoms share holders I would think.

 

I think if you remember TSW is a marmite game then everybody can have a better understanding of the general perceptions.   In this issue I am totally biased, it would have had to have been something special like an  a MMO Skyrim to have floated my boat.  Because Funcom as a company had a lot of making up to do overall.   This needed to be a special game and I think it missed the mark for a lot of people.

 

 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4107

Trolls will be ignored

2/01/13 4:48:56 PM#39
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by ktanner3

I would think that most who enjoy this game are glad for it's niche appeal and could care less about being the most popular kid on the block. There are more than enough MMOs out there that cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry that TSW wasn't another boring level and text based easy mode game for the ADD crowd. For the rest of us, games like these are a blessing. 

Fair enough it being niche, if that was the aim.  But Funcom went out to make a mainstream MMO with major appeal.   It didn't work, as a result the company is suffering and has had to alter it's whole strategy.   

 

 What about TSW makes you think that Funcom was trying to reach a mainstream audience? The complicated missions? The skill tree? The almost non-existent marketing for the game? Just what is it about TSW that makes you think Funcom was going for a mainstream MMO?

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  cura

Elite Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 855

2/01/13 4:54:41 PM#40

Someone paid you for this post? 90% of quests are exactly just like every other MMO fetch quest and combat sucks however you portray it.

 

EDIT: Sorry, i forgot its a repost. Feel free to repost my answer ;-)

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