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The Secret World Forum » General Discussion » The Secret World or The Secret Rip-Off?

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67 posts found
  User Deleted
12/03/12 4:45:55 PM#41
Originally posted by RandomDown

Do we need more people complaining about prices and such? The 15 dollars haven't risen with inflation like everything else so its an understandable way of doing things. 

Do we really need a subscription fee for anything in game? Nope, it's been proven time and time again by two other companies that subscriptions are not only not necessary to run a game and put out content for it and support it, it's not even used for bandwidth costs or server upkeep. So yeah people need to complain about it more.

Just because it hasn't risen doesn't mean it wasn't originally a rip off in the first place, which it is btw. There are plenty of other non-pay to win non-DLC ways of charging people for mmo's that are proven already to be effective money makers.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

12/03/12 4:56:00 PM#42
Originally posted by dannicus
 

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

No. You can always decide NOT to subscribe to cable tv. It is not a necessity, nor a right to watch cable tv, you know.

I know we all want stuff for nothing. But don't you think the cable company has the right to charge whatever they want, and run their business anyway they want (say with commercial)? You can always decide not to do business with them.

  Draron

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 1009

12/03/12 4:56:25 PM#43
With the pace of monthly updates, they can put all the cosmetic items in the shop they want. They just added a Leet pet from AO too, was thinking on getting it.
  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

12/03/12 4:59:32 PM#44

It comes down to choice. Some choose to play games with a sub and some don't.

All the "cheap I want to play for free" players need to just be content with what Perfect World has to offer. They have a whole stable of games you can play for free.

 

 

  User Deleted
12/03/12 5:14:24 PM#45
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian

 

Please be more specific. I don't see any overlapping abilities. Each keyword (penetration, hit, glance, block, defense, evade, leech, heal, critical chance, critical power, health, hinder, impair, affliction.. did I forgot any), has about 4-5 active and passive abilities, and all abilities are kinda different. 

 That is the fact you are talking about how the abilties fuction, while i am talking on how they look an feel while in combat. For me playing either a blood or choas dps-mage felt too similar as both apply a condition an than gain a buff or aguement to their abilties. But as i said above a blood mage-healer would largely shield their target an heal an that is well the sole focus of the blood healing. I think they could have added more depth an veriety to differing schools to make them have more ways of proforming thier duties. Also many fo the elmentalist attacks look much like they were re-skinned from other attacks in the other parts fo the wheel or even school. Like the thor hammer spell (might be wrong ont he name it is an elite skill.) looks rather uniue but feels somewhat similar to the fireball spell look.

There is no difference between Chaos and Blood Mage as a dps-er?

Now I doubt you played it longer than a few hours. 

There is a huge diffference between Chaos and Blood in feel and mechanics. Chaos is almost totally melee-based focused on impairs and high burst instant damage and defense abilities (evade), whereas blood dps is based on ranged - slow affliction (dot) damage and penetration hits. Lots of blood abilities may also be paid by your health-pool instead of the usual resources, whereas chaos is strickly based on resources. Those are two opposing 'schools' in fact in mechanics and in overall feel.

 Mage means they do not use a weapion, like a sword or gun or such, but use a fetish or a a lighter or use another thing as a focus for thier magic. Second yes one is focused on using affliction, while the other is about well using imparment, but in the end they both are about applying a status (impairment or affliction both have a different effect, but are mandatory to the function of the build at large.), Yes you can use blood abilties at a cost of your own health, which is novel really for a game to do allowing you more room to play. Yet in the end it is the same concept for both you apply your status affect (affliction or impairment) an then spam your attacks gaining buffs an effects passives bassed on what happens with your abilties. You are still talking about how the abilties function not the fact that the combat is simplistic in that you move out of issue areas, or dodge attack, apply your status affects, and spam your abilties on the run (unless you have a channel or attack that needs you to stand still.). In many ways this is true of all the schools that you apply your status, spam your attack, and gain buffs from your attacks based on crit/pentrating with hits or applying more status effect. All this is also done with movement happening alot as a important factor, and so i am not surprized the system is pretty simple in what you do in combat.

  User Deleted
12/03/12 5:34:39 PM#46
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by RandomDown

Do we need more people complaining about prices and such? The 15 dollars haven't risen with inflation like everything else so its an understandable way of doing things. 

Do we really need a subscription fee for anything in game? Nope, it's been proven time and time again by two other companies that subscriptions are not only not necessary to run a game and put out content for it and support it, it's not even used for bandwidth costs or server upkeep. So yeah people need to complain about it more.

Just because it hasn't risen doesn't mean it wasn't originally a rip off in the first place, which it is btw. There are plenty of other non-pay to win non-DLC ways of charging people for mmo's that are proven already to be effective money makers.

 Why is that? because they do not want to put forth the  money to play a game  that will cost them quite little per-day to play? That the sub cost denies them entry into the game, because they do not wish to pay for the sub? That they are okay with paying or haviing others pay in teh shop  to have them play the game? Someone is going to be paying money to keep the game running, and to pay bills, employees, equipment, and just profit for the company (i mean that is what they do is make profoit, not debt or atleast that is the idea.). Sub, F2P, B2P, or what not are all good options for the devs gain money to pay for the work they put intot he game you play, along with the cash-shop to reward the player for paying more than they already have for more products from them, but to say that one of those methods should not be used or is unethical or wrong is in itself wrong.

Also go find a deal for entertainment that is better than what you pay by day or hour of play you gain by paying 15 dallors a month for a game.  Which is mind you like paying 50 cents a day to watch any movie in a theater whenever you like, for largely how ever long you like (save for afew hours each week to do maitance on the game.). So no really it is not a rip off unless you play less than an certain amount per day or month, and at which point you can un-sub from it and save that money.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

12/03/12 5:42:23 PM#47
Originally posted by dannicus

 I just started playing this game, it has some nice features but so far little to none group involvement and it's pretty boring. Anyway I'm sure the game becomes more interesting and group involvement as you play but the issue that bothers me is the combination of an item-mall and a pay to play subscription. 

Not only is the game about 15 dollars a month but many of the appearance changes, titles, pets, wardrobe and even a haircut cost extra real life cash. That to me is ridiculous and unethical capitalism. This game is definitely not worth it when it cost you over a dollar USD just to change your toons lipstick.

Shame on Funcom.

I'd like all the people complaining about TSW's cash shop to raise their hands if they play WoW.  Because TSW has EXACTLY the same model -- sub with all cosmetics, pets and no "pay to win" store.  Not even XP buffs.  Here's WoW's cash shop, if you don't believe they have one:  

http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33

So, if you play WoW and complain about TSW's shop, you're a hypocrite.  You're allowed to bitch and moan about all cash shops (and be pure and holy) if you cancel your WoW sub immediately.  

As far as grouping goes, there's plenty of ways to find people -- cabals, the forums, group chat in Agartha, PvP.  It's the same as any other MMO, if you speak up, you'll find friends quickly.

  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

12/03/12 5:51:21 PM#48
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian

 

 

There is no difference between Chaos and Blood Mage as a dps-er?

Now I doubt you played it longer than a few hours. 

There is a huge diffference between Chaos and Blood in feel and mechanics. Chaos is almost totally melee-based focused on impairs and high burst instant damage and defense abilities (evade), whereas blood dps is based on ranged - slow affliction (dot) damage and penetration hits. Lots of blood abilities may also be paid by your health-pool instead of the usual resources, whereas chaos is strickly based on resources. Those are two opposing 'schools' in fact in mechanics and in overall feel.

...unless you have a channel or attack that needs you to stand still.). In many ways this is true of all the schools that you apply your status, spam your attack, and gain buffs from your attacks based on crit/pentrating with hits or applying more status effect. All this is also done with movement happening alot as a important factor, and so i am not surprized the system is pretty simple in what you do in combat.

Unfortunatly, you're wrong and it further proves you haven't really played the game apart from a few hours from the early beta. There is not a single ability in the entire game, during which you need to stand still. All channelling abilities -- and I mean all -- allow you to move around while you cast them.

No point talking about the other parts. If you think that Chaos Mage that is a melee based spec with high survivability and impairs (i.e. stuns) and high burst damage and Blood Mage that is a ranged based spec with slow dot afflictions and penetration effects are the same, just because they both apply some debuffing status, then there is hardly any open ground for further discussion.

 

REALITY CHECK

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

12/03/12 5:58:13 PM#49
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Thillian

 

 

There is no difference between Chaos and Blood Mage as a dps-er?

Now I doubt you played it longer than a few hours. 

There is a huge diffference between Chaos and Blood in feel and mechanics. Chaos is almost totally melee-based focused on impairs and high burst instant damage and defense abilities (evade), whereas blood dps is based on ranged - slow affliction (dot) damage and penetration hits. Lots of blood abilities may also be paid by your health-pool instead of the usual resources, whereas chaos is strickly based on resources. Those are two opposing 'schools' in fact in mechanics and in overall feel.

...unless you have a channel or attack that needs you to stand still.). In many ways this is true of all the schools that you apply your status, spam your attack, and gain buffs from your attacks based on crit/pentrating with hits or applying more status effect. All this is also done with movement happening alot as a important factor, and so i am not surprized the system is pretty simple in what you do in combat.

Unfortunatly, you're wrong and it further proves you haven't really played the game apart from a few hours from the early beta. There is not a single ability in the entire game, during which you need to stand still. All channelling abilities -- and I mean all -- allow you to move around while you cast them.

No point talking about the other parts. If you think that Chaos Mage that is a melee based spec with high survivability and impairs (i.e. stuns) and high burst damage and Blood Mage that is a ranged based spec with slow dot afflictions and penetration effects are the same, just because they both apply some debuffing status, then there is hardly any open ground for further discussion.

 

In 100% agreement with you about the combat itself -- lots of variety and chances to use different tactics as the situation requires.  Many never understood it with a short play during beta.

I think he really just doesn't like the animations -- which is fair; I think they're good and match the setting, but he's entitled to his opinion.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

12/03/12 6:00:53 PM#50
Originally posted by erictlewis

It was fine until I got to transilvania, at that point it became what kind of content to repeat every 3 days, while grinding out the wheel. 

Combat animations were boorking and half the time my toon with AR looked like his hands were empty and playing air guitar.  Then you load up fist weapons and it was the same 3 animations.  

So yes the game was good for a couple of months after that well it became a repeatable grind, and this so called stuff the added like the theater, did nothing to entice me to come back to play.  They honestly need a lot more content.   The rocket launcher mission only took 1 hour and boom done, then just more grind on the wheel, I am sure the chainsaw was the same.

If you like repeatable daily grinds then you will love this game otherwise stay away. 

 

If you're a content locust, then yes, stay away from TSW.  It's not a game to be rushed through.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17007

12/03/12 6:19:55 PM#51
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by RandomDown

Do we need more people complaining about prices and such? The 15 dollars haven't risen with inflation like everything else so its an understandable way of doing things. 

Do we really need a subscription fee for anything in game? Nope, it's been proven time and time again by two other companies that subscriptions are not only not necessary to run a game and put out content for it and support it, it's not even used for bandwidth costs or server upkeep. So yeah people need to complain about it more.

Just because it hasn't risen doesn't mean it wasn't originally a rip off in the first place, which it is btw. There are plenty of other non-pay to win non-DLC ways of charging people for mmo's that are proven already to be effective money makers.

well, do the math.

given salaries. bonuses, rent, insurance, legeal fees, equipment, maintenance contracts, taxes, recruiting costs, and all the little fees that go into keeping a game business (or ANY business) afloat, charging "nothing" per month and expecting the company to thrive just might not do it. And I imagine there are still some bandwidth costs. Oh and employee benefits to boot.

So what do they do without a sub? they implement the cash shop which only a small amount of players will use regularly.

Even Aion is having a bad time of it because it's not bringing in the money that they hope it would with their cash shop.

And think of it this way, if you sell a game that is supposed to be around for a while and because the initial sales aren't great they can't cover costs, let alone initial investment then they are going to have to shut down and you essentially have a bunch of players who paid their box costs for not much longevity. So the monthly fee helps with keeping that game around.

In any event even GW2 has it's cash shop, so it's not all about box fees. The hope is that over time enough will use it. The hope. Not that i think GW2 will "go under" but I'm curious to see what they start offering over time.

And as I recall in an interview one of the reasons they didn't continue aggressivley putting out guild wars expansions was because, with all the changes to the game in each iteration, it was becoming too expensive to continue in the manner they were working. That was one of the things that started the whole "hey, we could make a sequel and make some changes that would make it more financially viable to develop."

But, in the end, there are only enough sunglasses and armor skins that players will buy.

 

  niceguy3978

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1977

12/03/12 6:26:48 PM#52
Originally posted by dannicus

 

I just started playing this game, it has some nice features but so far little to none group involvement and it's pretty boring. Anyway I'm sure the game becomes more interesting and group involvement as you play but the issue that bothers me is the combination of an item-mall and a pay to play subscription. 

Not only is the game about 15 dollars a month but many of the appearance changes, titles, pets, wardrobe and even a haircut cost extra real life cash. That to me is ridiculous and unethical capitalism. This game is definitely not worth it when it cost you over a dollar USD just to change your toons lipstick.

Shame on Funcom.

I understand why you don't like the double-dipping, I don't really like it either, but there really aren't many mmos that don't do this anymore.  Really, only the indy mmos don't do this, I can't think of one of the more popular games that doesn't have some form of cash shop.  Rift has a cash shop but I think currently it doesn't have anything in it (at least that was the last I read on it way back), though they do have that bit where after a couple of months at release they started to allow people do buy "upgrades" to their account from the CE.  Am I missing a major monthly pay mmo that doesn't do this in some way?  

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1696

12/04/12 3:17:21 AM#53
Originally posted by dannicus

 

I just started playing this game, it has some nice features but so far little to none group involvement and it's pretty boring. Anyway I'm sure the game becomes more interesting and group involvement as you play but the issue that bothers me is the combination of an item-mall and a pay to play subscription. 

Not only is the game about 15 dollars a month but many of the appearance changes, titles, pets, wardrobe and even a haircut cost extra real life cash. That to me is ridiculous and unethical capitalism. This game is definitely not worth it when it cost you over a dollar USD just to change your toons lipstick.

Shame on Funcom.

I do not care not even minimally for group play. I love SOLO leveling. Not because asocial, because have other things to do in life then spend days and days planning for group play. When leveling is done of course one need group play and I'm fine with that. If I will not will simply move to another game to level alts there. Simple as that.

Great soludion had SWTOR. You could solo up to end or doing only flashpoints or in general group content.

  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

12/05/12 9:55:14 AM#54

Ooookay...

So I've looked through the actual Cash Shop in TSW and I can't find anything - not one thing - that says 'You must buy this in order to play the game better'.  I'm seeing some nice cosmetic items, some pets... but nothing that I *must* have.  Actually, this is the first time in months that I've even looked into the Cash Shop - I had to hunt around to actually figure out how to open the UI since I've forgotten all about it, honestly.

Now, I take a trip to Pangea in London and look at the cosmetic items - there are a LOT of cosmetic items - that are all available via in-game currency... not one real-world penny required.  Deck my character out in some killer threads - and once again, not one real-world penny was spent.  Damn, I look pretty good... why don't I look this good in real life?

If the OP doesn't want to play TSW, then they don't have to - but let's be clear here... the Cash Shop is OPTIONAL.  There's not one thing in it that gives you an unfair advantage over other players - hell, some of the outfits at Pangea are actually better than what I see in the Cash Shop, and again, no real-world money is required at Pangea.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 996

12/05/12 10:00:29 AM#55

do you REALLY care about the stuff in the cash shop?  This cash shop specifically, because the sub+cash shop ship already set sail years ago with sparklepony in WoW, tens, if not hundreds of thousands bought the that and other $25 unique mounts since then. 

 

I was able to put together a few outfits from the in game shops that I liked just fine.  the game is 100% fully playable without buying anything.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 947

12/05/12 10:04:33 AM#56

I will wait until they offer a free trial again and level up enough to determine if the game is a rip-off or not.

First 30 days into the game I quit because of the lag the game had that might have improved though.

 

I however do feel that their FC points shop is a Rip-Off because they only allow trading currency one way right its not like GuildWars trade in game cash, or sell in game items for FC points which is dumb I never found out if it was like this or not.

  User Deleted
12/05/12 10:12:03 AM#57
Originally posted by dannicus

 

I just started playing this game, it has some nice features but so far little to none group involvement and it's pretty boring. Anyway I'm sure the game becomes more interesting and group involvement as you play but the issue that bothers me is the combination of an item-mall and a pay to play subscription. 

Not only is the game about 15 dollars a month but many of the appearance changes, titles, pets, wardrobe and even a haircut cost extra real life cash. That to me is ridiculous and unethical capitalism. This game is definitely not worth it when it cost you over a dollar USD just to change your toons lipstick.

Shame on Funcom.

As other posters have said, you don't need anything from the shop, its all appearance, and to be honest you can get better looking stuff by actually playing. After you do 30 missions they even give you 1200 points for free which is enough to buy an outfit.

No grouping at low levels? Yep, not sure what else you expected. You cant even get low level groups in WoW anymore except immediately after a new race / class release. Most themeparks have the same issue, once you have leveled up there is no incentive to do old dungeons to help new players out. GW2 fixes that to an extent, except people would prefer to run them with level 80s.

So yeah, like most games its grind to cap, then grouping. Or take a pre-made group of friends for the leveling experience, thats pretty much your options.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2828

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

12/05/12 10:15:29 AM#58
I'm personallym with it being called a rip off. You have a sub model for a reason. When your charging for stuff AND have a box cost AND a sub, theres a big problem. I have no problem charging for cosmetics, but you better not have the game costing a monthly fee if your going to do such.
  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1147

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

12/05/12 10:20:58 AM#59
Originally posted by RandomDown

Do we need more people complaining about prices and such? The 15 dollars haven't risen with inflation like everything else so its an understandable way of doing things. Maybe not wise or w/e but the shop is cosmetic so its not a huge issue anyways.

 

The game had great story and I like the skill wheel but it really is just a straight grind at later levels unfortunately when you start running HM dungeons.

It rose quite enough when it went from $9.95 to $12.95 and then $14.95 back with Ultimata Online, FFXI and WoW respectfully.

I've always been against Box Price + Monthly Fee + In game cash shop and personally think it's a rip off.  But I also don't subscribe and understand that many do think it is worth it and are okay with being asked for month left and right for a game that they genuinely enjoy.

I've bought more than my fair share of collector's editions because I enjoy a game.  :)

Hope it gets many more expansions and patches to keep it entetaining to those who like the game.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  User Deleted
12/06/12 2:44:23 AM#60

Like AOC - not much of an MMO by any stretch, but the content that is there is worth playing through at least once.

I'm okay with my purchase of TSW and had enough fun doing all the quests, seeing the world to justify the cost. Two weeks of solid 8h+ a day play is a fair price for $39 or whatever it was.

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