Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Zooce

Fun while it lasted.  Best quest content I've ever experienced.  Played each mission at least once, have repeated the final three zones three times now...It's just becomming boring as fuck.  http://chronicle.thesecretworld.com/character/Zouce

 

Great story, but once you are "on vacation" good luck staying interested.

Well said and right on target.  Thank you for linking your chronicle as well.  Game could have been phenomenal but isn't worth a monthly sub right now.  It's too SMALL.  Rift has the same problem as an example of another game that has vast potential but is so small it's pointless to play for any type of longevity. .  Right now.

 MMOs need to be built with longevity in mind and not promises of more content to keep me paying(although this should be a given, it's what MMOs do, if they are smart).  You need a good track record first, IMHO.  Funcom does not have that.  Neither do many other companies, especially YOU, Blizzard.  Charging people a monthly fee when the last content update was over a year ago or more.  So sad. Trion is the ONLY company to have NOW proven they can add content on a consistent and rapid basis, yet the game is still small and I still lack things to do.  TSW seems to have followed the same build idea.  Wonder if they can keep up with the monthly content updates they plan and how much they will expand the game.

I'm not opposed to trying it out again in 6 months to a year to see how it's grown, that's for sure.  The game has potential.  But then, SWG was always touted as having massive potential and they wasted that endeavour.

Sorry, but tell me about an MMO that is able to sustain powergamers who play 10-16 hours a day in front of a PC for longer than the first month?  Some extreme Asian grinders aside.  Which I can't call exactly fun, having to mindlessly kill a million mobs to advance one level. /shrug

You simply CANNOT design a fun and lasting game for these type of gamers. Not even a well designed sandbox can keep these people entertained for long. Period!

Like many people already mentioned, the vast majority of people are still playing on Solomon's Island and now barely started trickling into Egypt.

Those are the main audience and they have plenty of content to go still for months to come.

Why are you assuming that this player and myself are power gamers who play for 10-16 hours a day?  I've played maybe 4 hours a day on average and for 2 weeks have hit transylvania.  1 more week and I would have completed the rest of Transylvania and the main story quest.  Leaving the only thing left to do is to repeat content.  Even Rift kept me for at least 2 months and that's a small game.  I also remember WoW at launch keeping me with 1 character for 3 months to cap.  Then I was able to make 2 alts and have completely different leveling experiences with them, the only repeat content being pvp and dungeons.  I still remember being amazed at finding new content out in the world in WoW up and through BC.  These games can and have launched with enough content to keep people quite happy for enough months to pop out more content.

28 hours a week on a single game is a lot and quite above average. It's not hardcore yet sure.... but it's still a lot.

I am talking about those people that have maxed out everything already within 3 weeks. They have played at least 10 hours a day straight! Period.

How many AP have you spend? How many SP have you spend? How many builds have you tried?

And these powergamers claiming they have done everything. I am pretty sure they haven't  geared up through nightmare mode yet.

Nor have I seen a single zone boss being unlocked yet. Yet alone a region boss or even a world boss. Who is suppose to drop the best stuff available ingame.

The above IS Endgame! And it will keep you occupied for quite some time to master it, unlock it, collect it, etc, etc.

And saying it's repeating content..... well hello!  Is that any different than other MMO's like WoW, EQ2, Rift, LOTRO, etc??

Nope..... welcome to MMO's.

I never repeated WoW content until my 4th character and/or endgame.  What you mention as endgame is endgame for some player types.  For example Raiders.  They have quite a few games to give them what they want.  I'm not one of them, therefore a Raiding endgame isn't an endgame to me.   So, world bosses, that isn't an endgame mechanic I would ever do, hence not endgame for me.  But you miss the point.  I'm not picking apart what it does have, but what it doesn't have and should have.  Game is too small, it's not a hard concept to understand here, folks.

WoW was in development for more than 5 years with a huge dev team and quite an epic budget for that time.

EQ2 was in development for more than 5 years with a huge dev team and quite an epic budget for that time (especially with all the voice overs and epic music that went into it).

Game studios don't have that luxury anymore these days. They get 3 years tops these days to launch an MMO. That's it.

Just look at SW:TOR and how much money was spend on that turd of a game? Rest my case.

For what has been pushed out over the past 5-6 years post WoW, EQ2 and LOTRO.... then both Rift and The Secret World are one of the best releases of these past 5-6 years.

Originally posted by JeroKane

WoW was in development for more than 5 years with a huge dev team and quite an epic budget for that time.

EQ2 was in development for more than 5 years with a huge dev team and quite an epic budget for that time (especially with all the voice overs and epic music that went into it).

Game studios don't have that luxury anymore these days. They get 3 years tops these days to launch an MMO. That's it.

Just look at SW:TOR and how much money was spend on that turd of a game? Rest my case.

For what has been pushed out over the past 5-6 years post WoW, EQ2 and LOTRO.... then both Rift and The Secret World are one of the best releases of these past 5-6 years.

The Secret World apprently has been in development for over 5 years before they released it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_World

 

The Secret World (formerly known under the working titles Cabal and The World Online)^[6] is an MMORPG from developer Funcom (makers of Anarchy Online and Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures), the development of which has been officially confirmed on March 6, 2007

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by elocke

Why are you assuming that this player and myself are power gamers who play for 10-16 hours a day?  I've played maybe 4 hours a day on average and for 2 weeks have hit transylvania.  1 more week and I would have completed the rest of Transylvania and the main story quest.  Leaving the only thing left to do is to repeat content.  Even Rift kept me for at least 2 months and that's a small game.  I also remember WoW at launch keeping me with 1 character for 3 months to cap.  Then I was able to make 2 alts and have completely different leveling experiences with them, the only repeat content being pvp and dungeons.  I still remember being amazed at finding new content out in the world in WoW up and through BC.  These games can and have launched with enough content to keep people quite happy for enough months to pop out more content.

Doesn't change the fact and what others have been saying that majority of players are still on solomon island or have started to enter Egypt . I entered Trans 2 days back and zone is dead compared to Egypt and solomon island. So for those who can spend 4 hours or more daily maybe the content isn't enough but i bet a lot of players would take few more weeks till they finish trans, lairs, dungeons on elite and nightmare difficulties.

WOW when launched didn't have that much content as you are trying to show. Only difference is that games like EQ and WOW artficially slowed down the leveling.  Doesn't mean it had lot of content. I played WOW at launch and at times leveling used to feel like a huge grind. I am glad devs don't use artifical means to slow down preogression anymore.

The next victim of content locusts is going to be GW2. Forums are goign to explode with same topics from power gamers.

Yes, WoW DID have that much content.    I could roll a night elf, take him to level cap via Kalimdor quests.  Done.  I could then roll a Human.  Take him to level cap via Eastern Kingdom quests.  Done.  Then I could do 2 races on the horde side, completely different experience.  On the 3 or 4th character there started to be some overlap but it was diverse and fast enough and by that time new content was in the game.  This was vanilla WoW.  

Played vanilla WOW at release even before a single expansion was released. WOW was thin on content and it suffered from same problem of replayign the same quests on alts except for the starting areas quests. You are just making up stuff to prove your point now. I did every single quest in vanilla wow and amoutn of XP required to level was huge hence the low leveling speed.

I disagree about GW2 for a few reasons. One, it's awesome and has kept me interested even over 3 months of beta weekends, never had a game keep me excited while playing beta.  Two, no monthly sub and therefore I'm not feeling robbed if I, for some reason, end up with no content to keep me occupied.  Third, the replayability is very high as each race has their own starting area, content scales to level, and there is no kill stealing or ninja looting.

Yes ofcourse you disagree about GW2 no surprise there. Personal bias is a big factor behind rigid opinions and views and that is why even after repeatdely being told that majority of players have not even reached Trans or finished entire content game has to offer, you refuse to listen. Good for you that GW2 kept you busy for 3 months so did TSW for many players during entire closed beta and now at release.  What does that mean? while TSW appeals to a lot of people it doesn't appeal to you in similar manner. Scaling is a good idea but you are running through same areas once out of starter zone. I did lot of DE's and after some time the novelty starts to wear off because the repetition sets in. But that is nature of MMOS so GW2 is not going to get a free pass on this from content locusts.

Monthly sub is irrelevant because if a MMO is free to play or B2P  players wouldn't keep logging in if they have consumed all the content . Replayability in GW2 largely depends upon DE's and we will see how long before people start complaining about repetition and doing same thing over and over again.

But hey why argue? wait for few more weeks, if you didn't  see similar posts on GW2 i will openly admit i was wrong.

Finally, to your first point.  Ok, so CASUAL players are still on Solomon or just now entering Egypt.  Great, good for them.  Game seems to be built for the ultra casual player.  Glad they have one to play.  A good MMO caters to both hardcore gamers and casual.  Or at least semi hardcore, which I would put myself in.  Again, I don't hate this game, it's not a horrible game, it's just too small and too short.  I'm coming from many games, my tops being FFXI, WoW, Lotro, SWG and I never had those game lose me due to lack of content or world size in less than a months time.    It's definitely an issue with TSW whether it's an issue for casual players or not, it doesn't make it any less real.

Yes TSW is meant for casual players as well those who enjoy a good challenge, hardcore doesn't only mean 'i can spend 10 hours a day in front of PC'. I don't even know what you mean by hardcore. It is funny though that i am seeing this trend that a lot of GW2 supporters make passive aggressive posts about TSW regarding beig thin on content and that it caters to casual players. What is GW2 then? it is as causal as it gets.

You must be living in denail if you think people like OP won't chew and spit all the content GW2 has to offer within couple of weeks. Just wait and watch.

 

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by godpuppet

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Aerowyn

you guys blow through this stuff way to fast.. i been playing since CB and even still I'm just only about to hit blue mountain

Actually the OP is about right. During all phases of beta, working 40hrs a week, I was able to complete all the content prior to the wipe for open beta in a week. The game IS simply that short.

 

You seem to be going at a snails pace, or taking everything in, than everyone else. Not a bad thing mind you, but claiming others are going through stuff way too quickly isn't correct at all.

if you guys are expecting the content to last while playing 8 hours a day everyday you have unrealistic expectations from a themepark MMO.

 

oh also most themeparks are released with no raids and raids were added in time...

True, but then food for thought. Most people play what, 4 hours a day. Thats only 2 months. Ive checked the upcoming update announcements. There isnt going to be anything massive to provide greater endgame content in the next patch.

 

So while im saying it now, in a month, month and a half, people are going to be saying the same thing.

 

If its taken then 3-4 years to get to this point. I really dont see any massive changes coming in the next 30 days.

well in a month GW2 wil be out and will give people something else to play if they are tired of TSW:)  but look at games like Rift they added a ton of content in a very short time.. it honestly doesn't take long if the developers do it right.

 

Trion are uniquely productive. There aren't many companies capable of producing what they output in a month within a year, just look at SWtor or DCUO (for example) both games that promised loads of new 'stuff'.

Originally posted by Gorilla
Trion are uniquely productive. There aren't many companies capable of producing what they output in a month within a year, just look at SWtor or DCUO (for example) both games that promised loads of new 'stuff'.

People said the same thing over a year ago about Trion Worlds.  Mainly Rift fans had to deal with SWTOR/TERA/GW2 fanboys talking trash about the game constantly.  We see now how all of it played out.  The ball's in Funcom's court now.

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Played vanilla WOW at release even before a single expansion was released. WOW was thin on content and it suffered from same problem of replayign the same quests on alts except for the starting areas quests. You are just making up stuff to prove your point now. I did every single quest in vanilla wow and amoutn of XP required to level was huge hence the low leveling speed.

WoW at launch had multiple zones per level range. You could take 2 characters from the same faction and follow 2 completely different leveling paths.

Don't take my word for it, though. This information is freely available on WoWWiki.

Who's making up stuff now?

What more do you need than this: There are 3 factions and one starter zone.

I think by end-game the OP just means the new-age definition of end game, which is 100% raiding content and nothing else.  This is an example of why WoW ruined the MMO culture.

Pre-WoW end-game mean so much more then just raid raid raid raid raid and then when you finished that raid hope another raid is released.

Work on crafting, Lore, PvP, Mini-bosses and world Boss, grind out more Skill Points and try different builds (you might be suprised of what you find), or what I sometimes do, just run around the talk with the NPC's and get there stories about things.

This game can be played two ways, like an easy, fast skin through MMO, which is still fun, or read like a book, with its own story and characters that are more then just a static quest giver and nothing else.

This is what happens when max leveling speed is too fast.

Originally posted by jmhart

This is what happens when max leveling speed is too fast.

There are no levels in TSW. You gain "xp" through questing and dungeons to purchase skills.

The "max levelling speed" is only as fast as you make it, people who blow through games like this use the walkthroughs, they never bother to play the actual game and TSW is one of those games where the fun is in very much the playing, not the rush through. Some investigation mission take hours to figure out for most people, a walkthrough will get you finished in a few minutes, but they haven't achieved anything and so miss out on that enjoyment.

Originally posted by jmhart

This is what happens when max leveling speed is too fast.

Kinda.  I would've preferred a much slower vertical progression, but here again, I am not thier target 2hour per day audience.  I had a 60 of each class in Vanilla WoW, before TBC was released.  I have multiple max level characters in every game I enjoy playing.  I sub'd WoW for years because it actually kept me entertained.  I sub'd Lotro for months because it kept me entertained.  I sub'd Rift for a couple months because it kept me entertained.  I sub'd AoC for the first year when everyone else was quitting, because it kept me entertained.  TSW, bored after two weeks.

For me the game lost much of its appeal when vertical progression halted and I was no longer finding upgrades- only sidegrades.  The tokens you get from questing are largely useless after Egypt (the zone majority of players are just now reaching according to stats).

By the time you unlock around 30ish % of the ability wheel, you definitely have at least one perfected main build.  After that, you have completed all the story and mission content at least once.  I found little enjoyment spending AP to unlock horizontal progression.  Sure it's novel at first- using completely new skills to grind the same missions, but I found it was less efficient than the build I had been using for the ENTIRE game.  I suppose if I had made some shitty primary build to start with, horizontal progression would be very exciting and make me feel more powerful, but going from Blade/ Chaos to anything else I tried after finishing the story content feels like a downgrade.

Also, if anyone is curious what the endgame feels like I suggest making a character on Testlive server.  Max your skills and fill out the full ability wheel, grab a set of q10 greens and evaluate the excitement playing TSW brings you.

TSW is just a gear grind in the end, full of progression barriers (lockout timers, bugged content, overnerfed droprates) same as AoC was at launch (except minus 3 buggy and exploitable raids).

 

*edit- I am also a HUGE crafter.  That keeps me happily entertained on its own.  I played Darkfall and sub'd for years just because I enjoyed the PvE and crafting.

The crafting in TSW is beyond shit.  Crafting in TSW is nothing more than a conversion system.  I had accumulated well over 300 of each sacred-level material with absolutely nothing to use it on.  No need to craft at any point in the game, you will find all the gear needed from killing mobs, rewards, and dungeons.  The crafting kits are the biggest pile of shit.  If they were able to be upgraded (5 q7 glyph kits = 1 q8 glyph kit, 10 q10 green weapon kits= 1 q10 blue weapon kit, etc. ) the system might have held my attention.

As many already noticed, TSW is too much themepark : it's SWTOR syndrome all over again and it wont work because both games lure people with "stories" and "unique setting" (star wars/lovecraft) and puzzles (only in TSW) which is very nice BUT ALL THIS STOP ONCE YOU FINISHED THE MAIN QUEST LINE.

So you end up with customers that have only dungeons/pvp left to do. How can this work for the long run? (hint: it can't)

I'm currently playing the game (just started egypt) and althought i suggest every horror fans to try it; as i expected i won't renew my sub. For that TSW should have focused more on social interractions. The game is all about conspiracy with 3 factions: why didn't they had politics in the mix? Why is the crafting so limited? Obviously it will also appeal to a more mature audience, people that read a lot, can take their time etc. So why 99% is combats? I came for the riddles but to be honest, there's one every 2000 zombies.


So well... it's a nice refreshing game that will untertained me until GW2/MoP but its imho a wasted opportunity.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Played vanilla WOW at release even before a single expansion was released. WOW was thin on content and it suffered from same problem of replayign the same quests on alts except for the starting areas quests. You are just making up stuff to prove your point now. I did every single quest in vanilla wow and amoutn of XP required to level was huge hence the low leveling speed.

WoW at launch had multiple zones per level range. You could take 2 characters from the same faction and follow 2 completely different leveling paths.

Don't take my word for it, though. This information is freely available on WoWWiki.

Who's making up stuff now?

You are? i don't need the link to wiki because i played WOW. For completeonist who like to see all content had to go through same quests, how many players do you think skippedi the quests considering the amount of XP was required in vanilla WOW to level up.

I had 3 alts back then and other than the starter area quests i was pretty much running through same quests on every character. There was no  alternate way to level in vanilla wow.

Originally posted by Ryowulf

What more do you need than this: There are 3 factions and one starter zone.

And only 8 zones that have around 500 missions in total.  With about half being side missions that take no more than 1-5 minutes to complete. :(

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Played vanilla WOW at release even before a single expansion was released. WOW was thin on content and it suffered from same problem of replayign the same quests on alts except for the starting areas quests. You are just making up stuff to prove your point now. I did every single quest in vanilla wow and amoutn of XP required to level was huge hence the low leveling speed.

WoW at launch had multiple zones per level range. You could take 2 characters from the same faction and follow 2 completely different leveling paths.

Don't take my word for it, though. This information is freely available on WoWWiki.

Who's making up stuff now?

You are? i don't need the link to wiki because i played WOW. For completeonist who like to see all content had to go through same quests, how many players do you think skippedi the quests considering the amount of XP was required in vanilla WOW to level up.

I had 3 alts back then and other than the starter area quests i was pretty much running through same quests on every character. There was no  alternate way to level in vanilla wow.

WTF are you even talking about? You didn't need to complete all of the quests in all zones to get to max level in WoW. If you went back and completed other quests because you're a completionist, that's your problem. The game offered multiple leveling paths per faction. Every level range had multiple zones and most of those zones had enough content to bring you to the next level range.

I played WoW at launch as well. I know for a fact that you are wrong and the link I provided proves it even further. Keep trying to deny it though.

Originally posted by heartless

 

WTF are you even talking about? You didn't need to complete all of the quests in all zones to get to max level in WoW. If you went back and completed other quests because you're a completionist, that's your problem. The game offered multiple leveling paths per faction. Every level range had multiple zones and most of those zones had enough content to bring you to the next level range.

I played WoW at launch as well. I know for a fact that you are wrong and the link I provided proves it even further. Keep trying to deny it though.

one big difference is "quality" of content.. sure in wow I could level 4 guys and not repeat the same content but most of it is still just kill X  with some variety thrown in here and there but not much. 

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by heartless

 

WTF are you even talking about? You didn't need to complete all of the quests in all zones to get to max level in WoW. If you went back and completed other quests because you're a completionist, that's your problem. The game offered multiple leveling paths per faction. Every level range had multiple zones and most of those zones had enough content to bring you to the next level range.

I played WoW at launch as well. I know for a fact that you are wrong and the link I provided proves it even further. Keep trying to deny it though.

one big difference is "quality" of content.. sure in wow I could level 4 guys and not repeat the same content but most of it is still just kill X  with some variety thrown in here and there but not much. 

I'll keep that in mind next time the quest asks me to destroy 7 locust nests, with each nest spawning 6 mobs. After killing 42 mobs and 7 nests and then killing the boss locust, even the infamous Nesingwary quests don't seem that bad.

On a more serious note, WoW actually has some of the more interesting and varied quests in the industry, still. TSW may have the NPCs talk artistically for 15 minutes, but then it goes back to the whole click on this, deliver this and kill x of this nonsense.

Originally posted by heartless but then it goes back to the whole click on this, deliver this and kill x of this nonsense.

Not many quest were unlike this, the game copied every other MMO for the most part.  If someone kept score TSW has more quest like this than other MMOs, or even other RPGs.  Such a boring game and I know I am not alone as most players felt the same way.

Originally posted by heartless

WTF are you even talking about? You didn't need to complete all of the quests in all zones to get to max level in WoW. If you went back and completed other quests because you're a completionist, that's your problem. The game offered multiple leveling paths per faction. Every level range had multiple zones and most of those zones had enough content to bring you to the next level range.

I played WoW at launch as well. I know for a fact that you are wrong and the link I provided proves it even further. Keep trying to deny it though.

I don't have to deny it because people often look at things in past with rose colored glasses. When i said no alternative path for questing means there was no other option then to level through quests.

Originally posted by heartless

I'll keep that in mind next time the quest asks me to destroy 7 locust nests, with each nest spawning 6 mobs. After killing 42 mobs and 7 nests and then killing the boss locust, even the infamous Nesingwary quests don't seem that bad.

On a more serious note, WoW actually has some of the more interesting and varied quests in the industry, still. TSW may have the NPCs talk artistically for 15 minutes, but then it goes back to the whole click on this, deliver this and kill x of this nonsense.

And yet you  support and defend GW2. What else is DE's and heart events? collect x, kill y, defend this, escort that, click on Z, pick that up, run back go back again.. DE done, rush to next..rinse and repeat. Last time i checkd WOW didn't have sabotage, invetigation and puzzles. So i don't know how you can say with straight face that WOW quest system was more varied.

Stop seriously, your bias is quite clearly showing now. I think this picture best describes players like you...

 

You would scoff and make fun of games like TSW but have no problems doing these monotonus tasks in GW2.