Originally posted by Vutar

Anyone thinking of getting TSW make sure to play the BWE this weekend. Do not take this thread at face value. Play the game yourself to see the combat. Maybe you will be okay with the combat as many here are, but there is a reason that in every poll posted over 50 percent say they aren't buying the game.

and the reason is that 75% of the MMORPG.com population are fanatical about GW2.. of that, 45% smash. bash, and mash any positives by those in the CB see as an amazing game. Whenever there is a poll asking such questions, the network of GW2 trolls come out enmasse to shoot this fantastical game down as much as possible.

Originally posted by raven29

Originally posted by Saxonblade

What I do not get is I have never played a game where the ease of two weapons was like this. Just follow me on this for a second.

GW2:

Have to be level 7 (I think) to unlock weapon switching, but you still have to hit a key to do this.

WoW:

Does not have it unless you consider switching talent builds as a way to do that, I do not.

SWTOR:

Does not have it.

Rift:

Again swapping roles but not really two weapon combat.

TERA:

Locked into one weapon period

 

TSW:

Just use that weapon ability, so very simple and seemless, I found the combat to be fun and using two different weapons added even more to the fun factor. I can be ranged or melee and never have to change specs what so ever can anyone else tell me a game that does this?

 

 

LOL.

You have to press a key to switch between weapons? Thats your complaint? Who knew THAT was game changing.

 

Where did I ever say it was a complaint, please do tell?

Originally posted by Saxonblade

TSW:

Just use that weapon ability, so very simple and seemless, I found the combat to be fun and using two different weapons added even more to the fun factor. I can be ranged or melee and never have to change specs what so ever can anyone else tell me a game that does this?

The ease of use is nice. However, I don't like how in many cases the 2ndary weapon is there more of a stat /unlock item rather than anything else.

For example: I went ele / blood for this last BWE. Not once did I use my blood item (looks like a spellbook) to cast any of the blood spells. It was just kind of there. I know this is less of an issue when it comes to firearms, or some of the active melee abilities.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Saxonblade

TSW:

Just use that weapon ability, so very simple and seemless, I found the combat to be fun and using two different weapons added even more to the fun factor. I can be ranged or melee and never have to change specs what so ever can anyone else tell me a game that does this?

The ease of use is nice. However, I don't like how in many cases the 2ndary weapon is there more of a stat /unlock item rather than anything else.

For example: I went ele / blood for this last BWE. Not once did I use my blood item (looks like a spellbook) to cast any of the blood spells. It was just kind of there. I know this is less of an issue when it comes to firearms, or some of the active melee abilities.

See I used both my sword and Hammer finishers in conjunction with each other,not sure if everyone knows you can do that or not,but as you gain your 5 builders by using say hammers it also builds your 5 swords. Then you can use for lack of a better term your finishers back to back and really put out some dps.

Originally posted by maitrader

Originally posted by Vutar

Anyone thinking of getting TSW make sure to play the BWE this weekend. Do not take this thread at face value. Play the game yourself to see the combat. Maybe you will be okay with the combat as many here are, but there is a reason that in every poll posted over 50 percent say they aren't buying the game.

and the reason is that 75% of the MMORPG.com population are fanatical about GW2.. of that, 45% smash. bash, and mash any positives by those in the CB see as an amazing game. Whenever there is a poll asking such questions, the network of GW2 trolls come out enmasse to shoot this fantastical game down as much as possible.

you are judging that based on the very early combat in the early levels. Much the same could be said for TSW as its very basic until you get higher up and have a slew of abilities at your disposal

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Saxonblade

TSW:

Just use that weapon ability, so very simple and seemless, I found the combat to be fun and using two different weapons added even more to the fun factor. I can be ranged or melee and never have to change specs what so ever can anyone else tell me a game that does this?

The ease of use is nice. However, I don't like how in many cases the 2ndary weapon is there more of a stat /unlock item rather than anything else.

For example: I went ele / blood for this last BWE. Not once did I use my blood item (looks like a spellbook) to cast any of the blood spells. It was just kind of there. I know this is less of an issue when it comes to firearms, or some of the active melee abilities.

This is an issue with the Magical items moreso.

I mean for Chaos and Elemental it's understandable. Chaos attacks create their own weapons or are practically a martial art. Elemental's "Weapon" is an object that resides at your side, like a chain. The book sitting on your back though for Blood is quite stupid. I hope they change that. 

Hammer, Sword, Claw, Assault Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun don't follow that.

FWIW I rocked Chaos primarily with Pistol (at first) and Shotgun (later).

Originally posted by Saxonblade

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Saxonblade

TSW:

Just use that weapon ability, so very simple and seemless, I found the combat to be fun and using two different weapons added even more to the fun factor. I can be ranged or melee and never have to change specs what so ever can anyone else tell me a game that does this?

The ease of use is nice. However, I don't like how in many cases the 2ndary weapon is there more of a stat /unlock item rather than anything else.

For example: I went ele / blood for this last BWE. Not once did I use my blood item (looks like a spellbook) to cast any of the blood spells. It was just kind of there. I know this is less of an issue when it comes to firearms, or some of the active melee abilities.

See I used both my sword and Hammer finishers in conjunction with each other,not sure if everyone knows you can do that or not,but as you gain your 5 builders by using say hammers it also builds your 5 swords. Then you can use for lack of a better term your finishers back to back and really put out some dps.

That's pretty much how I played my ele / blood build tbh. It was based off of crit & afflictions, so was geared more towards damage, with the option of some support healing if it was necessary. So, I would usually setup a spike w/ Thor's Hammer, (Which I then later swapped out) followed by a blood spike. Ended up doing a few K dmg in just a couple seconds. Worked really nice, even though I was a bit squishy at times.

EDT: BTW I just wanted to give prop's to colddog's post a few pages back on the combat / issues with the game. Even though it's been burried a bit, I think it's a very well-constructed & insightful post on the game. I share a lot of the same gripes & concerns about the game, and am definitely having a hard time justifying paying the asking price for it, even though I was enjoying the game to some degree. I definitely liked the storyline for one. And I think he kinda hits the nail on the head regarding combat homonotization. There is a lot of customization, but it's all so similar in type that there's not a lot of difference in feeling between one weapon to another. Some of this could be fixed by making weapons feel more impactful in different ways, but I think that overall the weapons just work in much too similar a fashion.

Originally posted by aesperus

...snip

That's pretty much how I played my ele / blood build tbh. It was based off of crit & afflictions, so was geared more towards damage, with the option of some support healing if it was necessary. So, I would usually setup a spike w/ Thor's Hammer, (Which I then later swapped out) followed by a blood spike. Ended up doing a few K dmg in just a couple seconds. Worked really nice, even though I was a bit squishy at times.

 

EDT: BTW I just wanted to give prop's to colddog's post a few pages back on the combat / issues with the game. Even though it's been burried a bit, I think it's a very well-constructed & insightful post on the game. I share a lot of the same gripes & concerns about the game, and am definitely having a hard time justifying paying the asking price for it, even though I was enjoying the game to some degree. I definitely liked the storyline for one. And I think he kinda hits the nail on the head regarding combat homonotization. There is a lot of customization, but it's all so similar in type that there's not a lot of difference in feeling between one weapon to another. Some of this could be fixed by making weapons feel more impactful in different ways, but I think that overall the weapons just work in much too similar a fashion.

If you read his post you saw mine below... He didn't even hit the nail. It's kinda like he hit his thumb.. To be honest it really showed a extreme lack of knowledge. I don't think it was intentional, but you can't explain the wheel using past expirences. There's been nothing like it.  If  you didn't see it,  here you go.

Originally posted by colddog04

 

4. Homogenization of skills. I think you could pretty much put all the "non-elite offensive" skills into these categories:

Direct Damage Builder 

AOE Builder

DOT Builder 

Direct Damage Finisher 

AOE Finisher 

DOT Finisher 

 

Melee single  builder

Mid single builder

Rabge single builder

Magic single melee builder

Range single melee builder 

Melee chain builder

Mid chain builder

Range chain builder

Magic melee chain builder

Magic range chain builder

Range frenzy

Melee frenzy

etc...

Add consumers to all of these and remeber all consumers are not full concumers

GTAoE

PBAoE

Single target heals

Chain heals 

Hots

AoE heals

Stuns 

Silences

Knovk downs

Snares 

add range, melee, and mid to all CC plus magic or phisical

Offensive CDs

Defensive CDs

Multi Hit attacks

Leeches

I'm missing about 6 or 7 others....  If you don't take these things into consideration you just might gimp yourself pretty good :)

Originally posted by bcbully

If you read his post you saw mine below... He didn't even hit the nail. It's kinda like he hit his thumb.. To be honest it really showed a extreme lack of knowledge. I don't think it was intentional, but you can't explain the wheel using past expirences. There's been nothing like it.  If  you didn't see it,  here you go. 

I read his quote. I read your quote. I played in the last beta.

I still think his post is dead-on accurate. You can't come close to equipping all the abilities you mentioned because you only have 7 active slots. So you pick a Builder or two. You pick some Finishers or Utility/Buff Abilities. A Heal (or more if you are going dedicated Support). An Elite. And you're done.

So you tailor different builds to different situations... so what? My Blood Magic attacks didn't in any meaningful way feel different than my Auto-Rifle ones. It was impossible for me to be a "Pure Blade" Healer because their "open and flexible" system said I needed to use Claws for Melee Healing.

Like others, I don't think it's horrible but it's not this "super-awesomesauce" system of awesomeness either. To me there was far too much combat in a game that really shines in mystery, exploration, and investigation.

And proclaiming that we don't know what we're talking about because we aren't in the CB mere weeks before release? After AoC?!? Yeah I'll be in the BWE this weekend, but FC has to proove to me, actually show me things are better, not talk about shiny NDA-protected stuff.

This final beta weekend will be my first for TSW. I've been so pre-occupied with that other genre redefining game I managed to miss the previous TSW events. I probably won't tackle this with any where near the zeal, I'm not expecting 36+ hours of play testing for this event, but I am going to shoot for at least 20. No character hoping, so I'm hoping I can get a fair idea of whether or not the game is worth a purchase while waiting for the other title.

I do hope this is a good game and I hope it does represent innovation that pays off in compelling game play. There no way I can't end up comparing it to the other game, but I will try to do so objectively, because I want to see innovation in the genre and when that innovation results in an improved game play experience then the game should be lauded for it, even if it's not the game I've been devoting most of my attention to.

While waiting for an MMO worth playing, I've been playing some completely different games for fun. Games like Saints Row the Third. You kno what? The animations are pretty horrible in that game and I can find a lot to criticize about the combat and the game engine, but I'm still having fun playing it. The point being that I don't find nit-picking what some find to be less than stellar attributes of game Y, if game Y is a blast to play on the whole.

I want combat to be at least decent here. I don't want animations that are groan worthy, but I'm actually more interested in how the game looks and feels on the whole, how fun is it to play, how much content is there and how big is the game world. Oh, and how is content delivered? How linear is the game?

I don't want answers from others, I'll play test this weekend and try to form a some what solid first impression of the game. I want it to be good, even if I'll be dropping everything else for that other game when it finally releases sometime this year. (I was unltimately disappointed with AoC, so I'm in the position of having to give Funcom the benefit of the doubt here, with a bit of weariness. However, I played Anarchy Online for 18 months, which puts it among the top five MMORPGs for me for MMO longevity, so it's not like there isn't anything positive I can pull up when I think of Funcom).

I know next to nothing about the game or it's mechanics, so I'll be going in as a long time MMO vet, but a complete TSW newb. At least it should be interesting...

First off I am a big fan of TSW and GW2 but saying that GW2 combat is better ( Animation wise) then TSW is so full of crap.

GW2 target monster, hit 1 auto attack , and spawn buttons 2-7 yawwwn at least in TSW you have to " Think " on what your strat is going to be, and what abilities you have, plus there's no auto attack LOL

The animations in GW2 is not that great either, sure they " Look " ok but not fantastic, I think the reason why people are complaining about TSW is because they find it to hard, thats ok this game is'nt meant for everyone, more meant for the hardcore mmorpg vets like people from Madden,UO,EQ,DAoC , shadowbane ect, I found myself, GW2 to be very very easy to learn and understand which I think is ok because it's nice o play a game like that once in awhile that requires no thinking, but if I am going to pay a monthly subscription fee, I'll give it to TSW , if GW2 was asking for that same fee I'de pass really fast on that game.

Just to sum these things up, TSW animations are not bad at all, if you look at GW2 and take a HARD Look at the combat with certain weapons you'll see what I mean, so bash TSW based on those animations  well I can say the same about GW2, I personaly liked the animations in SWOTOR they were smooth and fluid, granted TSW is'nt AS Fluid yet, nor is GW2, and before I get smoked by someone Lol ( GW2 Fanboy ) it's pretty stupid to judge a game on animations before the game is even out, and lets say if both games stay the same in regards to combat animations, then one is'nt better than the other, they are both different.

to put it bluntly the only way anyone can judge whether they will enjoy the game is to get hold of a beta weekend key and try it. I am happy that I did, even though the game was not for me. Game enjoyment is a objective opinion and a matter of personal taste.

Originally posted by Entropy14

 

 

 

one good thing to say about funcom, is that they do tend to make the RIGHT choices after release, despite their poor record on launch.

 

 

we saw that in AoC..and look where it is now....

Originally posted by Aeolron

First off I am a big fan of TSW and GW2 but saying that GW2 combat is better ( Animation wise) then TSW is so full of crap.

GW2 target monster, hit 1 auto attack , and spawn buttons 2-7 yawwwn at least in TSW you have to " Think " on what your strat is going to be, and what abilities you have, plus there's no auto attack LOL

The animations in GW2 is not that great either, sure they " Look " ok but not fantastic, I think the reason why people are complaining about TSW is because they find it to hard, thats ok this game is'nt meant for everyone, more meant for the hardcore mmorpg vets like people from Madden,UO,EQ,DAoC , shadowbane ect, I found myself, GW2 to be very very easy to learn and understand which I think is ok because it's nice o play a game like that once in awhile that requires no thinking, but if I am going to pay a monthly subscription fee, I'll give it to TSW , if GW2 was asking for that same fee I'de pass really fast on that game.

Just to sum these things up, TSW animations are not bad at all, if you look at GW2 and take a HARD Look at the combat with certain weapons you'll see what I mean, so bash TSW based on those animations  well I can say the same about GW2, I personaly liked the animations in SWOTOR they were smooth and fluid, granted TSW is'nt AS Fluid yet, nor is GW2, and before I get smoked by someone Lol ( GW2 Fanboy ) it's pretty stupid to judge a game on animations before the game is even out, and lets say if both games stay the same in regards to combat animations, then one is'nt better than the other, they are both different.

still can't see how people love SWTOR animations. They to me feel static and uninspired. Not to mention the melee animation only look decent if you can't still and trade blows with the enemy if you move around they are all over the place.

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Combat is not bad.

It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.

To me its better combat than wow & swtor

How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.

Because it's being compared to the other MMOs that are just being released (or close to it), specifically Tera and GW2... both which have significantly better combat and significantly better animations in my opinion.

It also doesn't have better combat than SWTOR or WoW, mostly because of sloppy targeting, mob AI and pathing.

TSW has really good excel sheet/theory crafting combat for things like figuring out the best synergy.  A year or two ago that might have been enough, but the demographic for people that dig that sort of stuff is small and strinking.  

^^fixed it for you.

 

I think Tera (*giggles*) and GW2 have significantly worse animations, because, unlike you, I'm not a fan of overly dramatic animations and "lightshow" effects. I also don't like technicolor worlds that are filled with rainbow and neon colors just because they can be. I actively dislike Tera's art style, whereas GW2's art style I just find too "rich". It gives me "visual heartburn".

But that's just my opinion 

 

No. That's like saying 80s movies have better effects because you don't like CGI. You might not like the style, but that has nothing to do with the actual quality.

Exactly. Animation quality is mostly objective as it is easily measured. Such as how choppy it is, how much it looks like a natural movement etc.

Now if you dont like alot of effects is one thing but that does not make the lack of such automatically good animations.

Originally posted by Yamota

Exactly. Animation quality is mostly objective as it is easily measured. Such as how choppy it is, how much it looks like a natural movement etc.

Now if you dont like alot of effects is one thing but that does not make the lack of such automatically good animations.

Now you might wonder how Funcom made the animations? Well, they used motion capture.

I would say that if you think something like animations are good are a mostly subjective matter, because there are no objective criteria you can use to measure it. You are mentioning objective criteria like "how good it looks". How good something looks is entirely subjective.