Originally posted by ictown

its not a free skill circle, why don't people just say its a tiered skill ciricle just like gw2 tiered traits/skills

indeed, its 2 tiered, outer and inner wheels.

whats freeform is what you take and when you take it. it only takes a small amount of AP to complete the inner wheel, the outer wheel is where it fleshes out your chosen weapons

Originally posted by Kaaz

Originally posted by ictown

its not a free skill circle, why don't people just say its a tiered skill ciricle just like gw2 tiered traits/skills

indeed, its 2 tiered, outer and inner wheels.

whats freeform is what you take and when you take it. it only takes a small amount of AP to complete the inner wheel, the outer wheel is where it fleshes out your chosen weapons

That freedom is a illusion.

The way the game is designed to be played is you pick two weapons early on and stick with them until you nearly max them out.  When I say designed that way it's because of how quest/zone progression is laid out.  If you don't do that and instead work around the inner wheel before going to the outer wheel you will quickly hit a wall progression wise as you won't have any of the higher level abilities the higher level content is designed around.  Of course you could go back and do all the repeatable daily content until you max out the inner wheel but given that it's all static content who would want to do that.

The Synergies thing is also a two sided sword in a lot of ways.  It really limits the number of useful combonations of weapons you can have at anyone time.  Very few people are going to mix weapons that do different debuffs because the higher tier abilities depend on them to operate at max effectivness.

I'm sure the developers have very good reasons to do what they did in this system but it's kind of disapointing when you really start to dig into the system how limited it really is.  At this point I'm not really seeing a huge difference between Rift's abiliy to have builds that you switch between and TSW's ability to have builds you switch between other than Rift has four base classes where TSW only has one.

the higher lvl content requiring penetration to get rid of barriers (etc etc) is late in the game, ie elite/nightmare modes + mob camps. since your abilities improve from your talismans, as long as a mob didnt require penetration (or a different trigger thing) you could still kill them. and by the time you reach elite/nightmare modes you'll have fleshed out abilities anyway

Originally posted by Kaaz

Originally posted by ictown

its not a free skill circle, why don't people just say its a tiered skill ciricle just like gw2 tiered traits/skills

indeed, its 2 tiered, outer and inner wheels.

whats freeform is what you take and when you take it. it only takes a small amount of AP to complete the inner wheel, the outer wheel is where it fleshes out your chosen weapons

the outer wheel is still tiered the same way for each section though you just have more sections than the inner wheel.. you have to unlock ability A to get to ability B to get to C and so forth in that perspective tier

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Even though I liked the skilled system overall, only for pve though, I felt like I wasnt really choosing skills as freeform as it seemed at first glance. Its more of selecting areas to specialize in rather than skills themselves. It would have been nice to be able to pick specific skills inside the areas. I also don't like that you have to fill out all the areas before moving on to the next ring.

I also find that because of how it works its really impractical to mix and match too many areas. Focusing on verticality rather than horizontal progression is the way to go which is also is a bit of a bummer.

sort of agree I would find builds liked but having to take both sides on the lower tier to unlock the higher tier is sort of a let down.. many times I had no use at that time for any skills at all in one side of the lower tier but obviously have ot unlock them all to unlock anything higher. Once you get all unlocked obviously it doesn't matter I just think it would make progression more fun if you didn't have to unlock both sides to go up to the higher tier but say you unlocked one side of the lower tier this would open up corrisponding higher tiers.. for me that would be more fun for progression.

That takes about 1 hour in the starting area you know? About 30 mins in harder zones, but this a let down?

You had no use because you had no OTHER weapon abilities. Those abilities you didnt need at first will be linchpins for builds in the future.

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by Kaaz

Originally posted by ictown

its not a free skill circle, why don't people just say its a tiered skill ciricle just like gw2 tiered traits/skills

indeed, its 2 tiered, outer and inner wheels.

whats freeform is what you take and when you take it. it only takes a small amount of AP to complete the inner wheel, the outer wheel is where it fleshes out your chosen weapons

That freedom is a illusion.

The way the game is designed to be played is you pick two weapons early on and stick with them until you nearly max them out. 

The lack of knowlede about his game is amazing. That's not even close to how it's designed... You will be so gimped like that.

Originally posted by ictown

its not a free skill circle, why don't people just say its a tiered skill ciricle just like gw2 tiered traits/skills

This is the silliest thing I ever heard about this game. This system is NOTHING like GW2. GW2 doesn't have 1/3 of the freedom. Your class will always be the same in GW2, with a few predetemined builds....  

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Even though I liked the skilled system overall, only for pve though, I felt like I wasnt really choosing skills as freeform as it seemed at first glance. Its more of selecting areas to specialize in rather than skills themselves. It would have been nice to be able to pick specific skills inside the areas. I also don't like that you have to fill out all the areas before moving on to the next ring.

I also find that because of how it works its really impractical to mix and match too many areas. Focusing on verticality rather than horizontal progression is the way to go which is also is a bit of a bummer.

sort of agree I would find builds liked but having to take both sides on the lower tier to unlock the higher tier is sort of a let down.. many times I had no use at that time for any skills at all in one side of the lower tier but obviously have ot unlock them all to unlock anything higher. Once you get all unlocked obviously it doesn't matter I just think it would make progression more fun if you didn't have to unlock both sides to go up to the higher tier but say you unlocked one side of the lower tier this would open up corrisponding higher tiers.. for me that would be more fun for progression.

That takes about 1 hour in the starting area you know? About 30 mins in harder zones, but this a let down?

 

You had no use because you had no OTHER weapon abilities. Those abilities you didnt need at first will be linchpins for builds in the future.

1 hour, 30 minutes or 30 seconds its all relative. The point is not how much it takes but the fact that you have to get them in the first place.

Many times it's just that you are not interested in those skills, but non the less you have to get them to progress. The game only opens up in skill selection once you have them all unlocked. At that point you can call it 500 freely selectable skills.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Even though I liked the skilled system overall, only for pve though, I felt like I wasnt really choosing skills as freeform as it seemed at first glance. Its more of selecting areas to specialize in rather than skills themselves. It would have been nice to be able to pick specific skills inside the areas. I also don't like that you have to fill out all the areas before moving on to the next ring.

I also find that because of how it works its really impractical to mix and match too many areas. Focusing on verticality rather than horizontal progression is the way to go which is also is a bit of a bummer.

sort of agree I would find builds liked but having to take both sides on the lower tier to unlock the higher tier is sort of a let down.. many times I had no use at that time for any skills at all in one side of the lower tier but obviously have ot unlock them all to unlock anything higher. Once you get all unlocked obviously it doesn't matter I just think it would make progression more fun if you didn't have to unlock both sides to go up to the higher tier but say you unlocked one side of the lower tier this would open up corrisponding higher tiers.. for me that would be more fun for progression.

That takes about 1 hour in the starting area you know? About 30 mins in harder zones, but this a let down?

 

You had no use because you had no OTHER weapon abilities. Those abilities you didnt need at first will be linchpins for builds in the future.

1 hour, 30 minutes or 30 seconds its all relative. The point is not how much it takes but the fact that you have to get them in the first place.

Many times it's just that you are not interested in those skills, but non the less you have to get them to progress. The game only opens up in skill selection once you have them all unlocked. At that point you can call it 500 freely selectable skills.

Yes there is an order in which you buy abilities... Would you agree that once you unlocked all of the you can freely choose?

Yes many times you wont need them AT that time. Later you will. Unlike GW2 system that has a limited number of points you can use and abilities you can pick, in TSW there are no limitations.

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Even though I liked the skilled system overall, only for pve though, I felt like I wasnt really choosing skills as freeform as it seemed at first glance. Its more of selecting areas to specialize in rather than skills themselves. It would have been nice to be able to pick specific skills inside the areas. I also don't like that you have to fill out all the areas before moving on to the next ring.

I also find that because of how it works its really impractical to mix and match too many areas. Focusing on verticality rather than horizontal progression is the way to go which is also is a bit of a bummer.

sort of agree I would find builds liked but having to take both sides on the lower tier to unlock the higher tier is sort of a let down.. many times I had no use at that time for any skills at all in one side of the lower tier but obviously have ot unlock them all to unlock anything higher. Once you get all unlocked obviously it doesn't matter I just think it would make progression more fun if you didn't have to unlock both sides to go up to the higher tier but say you unlocked one side of the lower tier this would open up corrisponding higher tiers.. for me that would be more fun for progression.

That takes about 1 hour in the starting area you know? About 30 mins in harder zones, but this a let down?

 

You had no use because you had no OTHER weapon abilities. Those abilities you didnt need at first will be linchpins for builds in the future.

1 hour, 30 minutes or 30 seconds its all relative. The point is not how much it takes but the fact that you have to get them in the first place.

Many times it's just that you are not interested in those skills, but non the less you have to get them to progress. The game only opens up in skill selection once you have them all unlocked. At that point you can call it 500 freely selectable skills.

Yes there is an order in which you buy abilities... Would you agree that once you unlocked all of the you can freely choose?

 

Yes many times you wont need them AT that time. Later you will. Unlike GW2 system that has a limited number of points you can use and abilities you can pick, in TSW there are no limitations.

i would agree there but that's a long long way down the road... i enjoy the skill system just wish it was a little more open in progression as it is now. Overall though it works.

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by cooper85

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Even though I liked the skilled system overall, only for pve though, I felt like I wasnt really choosing skills as freeform as it seemed at first glance. Its more of selecting areas to specialize in rather than skills themselves. It would have been nice to be able to pick specific skills inside the areas. I also don't like that you have to fill out all the areas before moving on to the next ring.

I also find that because of how it works its really impractical to mix and match too many areas. Focusing on verticality rather than horizontal progression is the way to go which is also is a bit of a bummer.

sort of agree I would find builds liked but having to take both sides on the lower tier to unlock the higher tier is sort of a let down.. many times I had no use at that time for any skills at all in one side of the lower tier but obviously have ot unlock them all to unlock anything higher. Once you get all unlocked obviously it doesn't matter I just think it would make progression more fun if you didn't have to unlock both sides to go up to the higher tier but say you unlocked one side of the lower tier this would open up corrisponding higher tiers.. for me that would be more fun for progression.

That takes about 1 hour in the starting area you know? About 30 mins in harder zones, but this a let down?

 

You had no use because you had no OTHER weapon abilities. Those abilities you didnt need at first will be linchpins for builds in the future.

1 hour, 30 minutes or 30 seconds its all relative. The point is not how much it takes but the fact that you have to get them in the first place.

Many times it's just that you are not interested in those skills, but non the less you have to get them to progress. The game only opens up in skill selection once you have them all unlocked. At that point you can call it 500 freely selectable skills.

Yes there is an order in which you buy abilities... Would you agree that once you unlocked all of the you can freely choose?

 

Yes many times you wont need them AT that time. Later you will. Unlike GW2 system that has a limited number of points you can use and abilities you can pick, in TSW there are no limitations.

Yes, I do agree. That is what I said in the last sentence. 

Big problem with that is that the game needs to be good/fun all they way  up until you get all abilities. Otherwise you will never get to that "free selection". 

GW2's system is completely different. It is as we all know, class based. You are limited to the skills in your class, but with those you are free to play around the same way you would in TSW. Not sure what you mean by points, as those can be moved around.

I still prefer GW2 because of many other factors aside from skill  selection.