Originally posted by Charlizzard

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I can't think of a themepark with no classes
Or with the minecraft style crafting

So that's two things.

The quest system is more like old mmos, not wow like, in that there's no hubs.

There's a few other things that make it non wow clone for me. The combat, free moving, collision detection, being able to break los. 3 factions too I guess, although that seems to be the latest mmo craze.

They don't have classes, but they added "decks" which obviously you don't have to use, but I suspect that they may be optimized builds. And at some point theorycrafters will publish "ideal" specs, though again you don't have to use these.

I thought, initially, that the 3 factions were incredibly cool and would at times be working together, and at times be working to sabotage one another. Apparently, there is no diffference in gameplay, abilities, quests, or anything of the sort between the factions and that they are simply there for "flavor". I found this incredibly disappointing.

As a hardcore Min/Max'er of most MMO's ive played I can assure you that those decks are no where near as good as you can get, just looking over them at a glance and as as an example the Warlock build is pretty bad, it even usses a Passive ability that buffs an active one that the deck does not use.  Many similar mistakes can be found in those pre-set "decks".  They are jsut a building block for the noobs whove never tinkered with coming up with decent builds on their own,  You know the old 71/0/0 Paladin Builds from pre-Cata WoW.

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Charlizzard

The theory is sound, but in practice the combat leaves much to be desired. Spam 1 button to generate combo points. Ugh.

Look, TSW has a lot of strengths, combat is not one of them.

The lore, the environment, some of the puzzle quests, the main storyline, all terrific. The constant annoying clumps of mobs detract rather than add to the experience.

Completely agree,

 

I am going to buy TSW, and play it (atleast for the included month) But I must admit, when I got in the weekend beta (And I will be rolling Temps when it's live) the only combat that was any fun for me was shotguns. And thats pretty limited.

 

TSW was fun for me, but more inspite of the combat not because of it. Fortunately, the other parts of the game were fun enough to overcome the average experience I had with the combat.

 

I do think TSW has alot of features and aspects that set it above other games, but combat it prob not the feature anyone needs to be pointing attention to. 

 

Just my opinion.

I'm banging my head on the wall here. It's almost like people are saying "Yeah I see puddles on the ground, storm clouds, lightning, thunder and rain falling from the sky,  but I'm not going to say it's storming."

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Charlizzard

The theory is sound, but in practice the combat leaves much to be desired. Spam 1 button to generate combo points. Ugh.

Look, TSW has a lot of strengths, combat is not one of them.

The lore, the environment, some of the puzzle quests, the main storyline, all terrific. The constant annoying clumps of mobs detract rather than add to the experience.

Completely agree,

 

I am going to buy TSW, and play it (atleast for the included month) But I must admit, when I got in the weekend beta (And I will be rolling Temps when it's live) the only combat that was any fun for me was shotguns. And thats pretty limited.

 

TSW was fun for me, but more inspite of the combat not because of it. Fortunately, the other parts of the game were fun enough to overcome the average experience I had with the combat.

 

I do think TSW has alot of features and aspects that set it above other games, but combat it prob not the feature anyone needs to be pointing attention to. 

 

Just my opinion.

I'm banging my head on the wall here. It's almost like people are saying "Yeah I see puddles on the ground, storm clouds, lightning, thunder and rain falling from the sky,  but I'm not going to say it's storming."

I don't get what you mean, sorry.

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Charlizzard

The theory is sound, but in practice the combat leaves much to be desired. Spam 1 button to generate combo points. Ugh.

Look, TSW has a lot of strengths, combat is not one of them.

The lore, the environment, some of the puzzle quests, the main storyline, all terrific. The constant annoying clumps of mobs detract rather than add to the experience.

Completely agree,

 

I am going to buy TSW, and play it (atleast for the included month) But I must admit, when I got in the weekend beta (And I will be rolling Temps when it's live) the only combat that was any fun for me was shotguns. And thats pretty limited.

 

TSW was fun for me, but more inspite of the combat not because of it. Fortunately, the other parts of the game were fun enough to overcome the average experience I had with the combat.

 

I do think TSW has alot of features and aspects that set it above other games, but combat it prob not the feature anyone needs to be pointing attention to. 

 

Just my opinion.

I'm banging my head on the wall here. It's almost like people are saying "Yeah I see puddles on the ground, storm clouds, lightning, thunder and rain falling from the sky,  but I'm not going to say it's storming."

I don't get what you mean, sorry.

This is what I'm saying ;) We have now come full circle. Nice talking with you.

What you are saying is wrong. No two ways about it. These are SOME of the attack types. Some. Now you are free to spam one button though...

Melee (magic & physical) - single target builders & consumers
Mid range - single target builders & consumers
Range - (magic & physical) single target builders & consumers
 

PBAoE - AoE's centered around you body
GTAoE - Standard ground targeted AoE 
Chains - Attacks that jump from one target to another
Pet Summons - Orbs and turrets and stuff
CC - snares, stuns, silences, knock backs, knock downs
Heals - HoT's & direct single target group and AoE heals 
Shields - group, single & PBAoE
Cleanses - single & multiple buff and debuff
Cool downs - offensive & defensive single and group
Elites - Seem to blend catagories

Each of the 500+ fall into one of these catagories. Remember this is not a complete list.

Today I make a build that focuses on Cleanses and CC. I will make a melee cleanse/cc build.

The next day I might make a melee deck that focuses on shields and chain attacks.

Next week I make a build focused on GTAoE and defensice cool downs.

on and on and on.

Now that I like a build I'm going to refine it even more. My melee shield/chain attck build will use hinders and weakens, or maybe penatration and stuns., or maybe....

Is there another game that I can do this in? Am I missing something? Maybe you are missing a little something ;)

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Charlizzard

The theory is sound, but in practice the combat leaves much to be desired. Spam 1 button to generate combo points. Ugh.

Look, TSW has a lot of strengths, combat is not one of them.

The lore, the environment, some of the puzzle quests, the main storyline, all terrific. The constant annoying clumps of mobs detract rather than add to the experience.

Completely agree,

 

I am going to buy TSW, and play it (atleast for the included month) But I must admit, when I got in the weekend beta (And I will be rolling Temps when it's live) the only combat that was any fun for me was shotguns. And thats pretty limited.

 

TSW was fun for me, but more inspite of the combat not because of it. Fortunately, the other parts of the game were fun enough to overcome the average experience I had with the combat.

 

I do think TSW has alot of features and aspects that set it above other games, but combat it prob not the feature anyone needs to be pointing attention to. 

 

Just my opinion.

I'm banging my head on the wall here. It's almost like people are saying "Yeah I see puddles on the ground, storm clouds, lightning, thunder and rain falling from the sky,  but I'm not going to say it's storming."

I don't get what you mean, sorry.

 

This is what I'm saying ;) We have now come full circle. Nice talking with you.

 

What you are saying is wrong. No two ways about it. These are SOME of the attack types. Some. 

 

Melee (magic & physical) - single target builders & consumers
Mid range - single target builders & consumers
Range - (magic & physical) single target builders & consumers
 

PBAoE - AoE's centered around you body
GTAoE - Standard ground targeted AoE 
Chains - Attacks that jump from one target to another
Pet Summons - Orbs and turrets and stuff
CC - snares, stuns, silences, knock backs, knock downs
Heals - HoT's & direct single target group and AoE heals 
Shields - group, single & PBAoE
Cleanses - single & multiple buff and debuff
Cool downs - offensive & defensive single and group
Elites - Seem to blend catagories

 

Each of the 500+ fall into one of these catagories. Remember this is not a complete list.

 

Today I make a build that focuses on Cleanses and CC. I will make a melee cleanse/cc build.

 

The next day I might make a melee deck that focuses on shields and chain attacks.

 

Next week I make a build focused on GTAoE and defensice cool downs.

on and on and on.

 

Now that I like a build I'm going to refine it even more. My melee shield/chain attck build will use hinders and weakens, or maybe penatration and stuns., or maybe....

 

Is there another game that I can do this in? Am I missing something? Maybe you are missing a little something ;)

I am wrong.... Ahhhhh, ok, so I did enjoy the combat. Forgive me, it just didn't seem like I enjoyed it is what I meant. Thanks for clearing it up for me. 

(/sarc off)

Ok, all I mean is this, TSW may be the most complex combat system in history, under the hood, but when all of that translates into the actual feeling of combat when you're playing the game, it ends up being average fun at best FOR ME.

Thats all I meant, the system may very well be super complex and awesome built upon greatness and heroic uberness. But none of that was overly fun for me, except blasting them with the shotgun.

You are still limited to only doing one or 2 things well at the same time, if you try to be too diverse you will die. You will also have to carry all the weapons and all the different talismans to switch into to get anything from the different builds. You cant just switch your skills without switching weapons and Talismans.

@Chopsticks

One more thing, I am not knocking TSW, I am really looking forward to it, and will def play, I just don't think the combat play (actually playing the game in combat) is as fun as some other games. And I think TSW has ALOT of other areas where it really outshines any other game out there.

I mean, take AoC combat system and put it in TSW with everything else TSW has, and you have the greatest game ever made in my opinion.

Shrug. You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

If people can't see that the option to form your own collection of skills offers way more flexibility and freedom than you'll encounter in class based MMO's, then they can't really be helped.

Imagine that you'll have all the available skills in WoW, or EQ, or LotrO or GW2, but they're not restricted to 1 class, instead you can pick any skill from any class to form your own preferred build and role.

Now, picture that many of these skills have additional effects added, that are triggered by what other skills do: these additional effects could be triggered when a target is knocked down, or slowed, or burned, or its health dips below a point, or a player gets buffed or cursed etc etc. And those trigger effects could be all kinds of things as well, increase of damage, a DoT, an AoE debuff, a HoT buff, an PBAoE shield boost, etc etc.

Add to that things like collision detection, dual targeting and weapons that aren't so much depending on tab targeting a mob but use a point blank AoE cone effect (like anything within a 2-3 m radius in front of the player gets hits no matter what mob was targeted, sort of like AoC's melee combat where good positioning could have you strike 3 targets at the same time instead of 1), and to me it looks like a sufficiently deep combat system with quite the freedom and flexibility in tactics and theory crafting. Certainly more than what's possible in most other MMO's.

Originally posted by Quicksand

I mean, take AoC combat system and put it in TSW with everything else TSW has, and you have the greatest game ever made in my opinion.

I agree that AoC's combat, especially its melee combat, is 1 of the best combat systems I've played. Especially the feel of the combat, with its fatalities, directional shields that you had to pay attention to, and the skill combos with finishers, it all felt very visceral.

I still think that had they from the start given all the classes the flexibility of the revamped ranger class, where you could decide what effects you'd add to your skill combo finisher by using the directional white attacks or if you'd just use the combo finisher w/o additional effects, it'd have been the best combat system around.

TSW's combat system is different, less visceral and in the moment in its feel compared to AoC's melee combat, but its system offers layers and an added dimension in its free format role building and larger synergy in skill interactivity, that has its own merits. AoC's skill/combat strength lay more in the action based, operational level of things, where as TSW's skill/combat strength lies more in the tactical level of things.

Watching the newest trailer for Core Blaze, the combat looks pretty awesome if you're looking for deep combat in a game.

The quote below from the "Feature > Combat" section on their official website (sorry can't deep link to it) gives you an idea of how deep it's going to be:

"Core Blaze features a high degree of freedom in weapon selection, and players can choose different weapons at will right before assaults on a battlefield. Players can, for example, adopt an offensive strategy to equip the Sword & Shield today, switch to the Great Sword tomorrow and change to the Long Bow in group missions. Along with equipment and combat skills, the attributes that players acquire after they gain more experience will become core elements affecting combat effectiveness on the battlefield. Immediate actions that players take in a battle, tempos of attacks, angles of attacks and even supportive actions to go with your teammates' moves are all keys to winning in the adventure."

Originally posted by achesoma

Really?!  Deep combat?   Combat is by far the weakest element of the game.  The puzzle quests and stories are really what this game has going for it. 

Yes, the combat skill design looks interesting, and the advertisting video is good, but it's executed poorly. Funcom at it's best.

First the recent post about the "deepest crafting I have ever seen" and now this one...

Oh gawd zzzz...

Extremely similar system like Gw1. Collecting ability cards. And I actually love that system. Even though It looks slow paced, making hundreads of posible builds is major plus from me.

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Ambros123

And what fundamentals of RPG are these?  TSW provides nothing all that new that others haven't delivered countless of times.  New atmosphere and a breath of fresh air but nothing innovate or really different than any other themepark MMO thats been released.

Customization. No two characters should be a like.

Actually I think a lot of characters will be alike. You see, its not full on skill picking. You select a focus and there are way less than 500 focuses in the game. With that said, there is still going to be a lot of options. Just not as many as I thought there could be when they say 500 skills.

7 active 7 passive. 

Unlock then pick and choose as you please.

Thats the problem,  you wont unlock all of them until the very end. Even then people will be using the outer rings mostly.

Outer ring abilities are not upgrades. For example a inner ring ability may do 110 dmg while an out rinf ability does 105 dmg but if the target is impaired it does 115. 

 

So If you have a impair in your build then it would be wise to use the outer ring if not you would use the inner ring or find an ability that leaves the target impaired.

That's how these things usually work. That is what I call an upgrade. Now I look for an impair ability in order to use the more advanced ability that will be better.

Woozerman's Ability Picker

http://www.nine-swords.com/directives.php?d=60

If you were wondering what type of abilities you have access to in TSW here is all 500+  A Top notch app from a top notch community member.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's not a problem carrying extra weapeons and equipment - huge inventory and a gear manager.

Regarding Aoc, yes the double tap movements and fatalities would be excellent, I'm not convinced on putting combos in though.

They are adding the double tap dodge, I doubt they will put in the same fatalities. In AoC you got animation locked and immune to damage when you did a fatality. I doubt that fits into TSW gameplay. Kind of neat on my Bear Shaman though since I was always running 2-3 hots a fatality would get me up to at least half health while I was immune to damage. :D

Originally posted by letsxhat

Woozerman's Ability Picker

http://www.nine-swords.com/directives.php?d=60

 

If you were wondering what type of abilities you have access to in TSW here is all 500+  A Top notch app from a top notch community member.

Are you guys looking at the decks mmorpg is showing?! I hope people are starting understanding the size and scope of the ability wheel, and what it allows you to do. 

What ever you can think of you can build.  If you craft you deck from scratch there is no chance of someone having the exact same deck as you. Unless you copied someones... Why you would do that, I have no idea. 

This is the truest form of freedom the mmo genre has seen (EVE disclaimer..) In a time where little by little games go the way of WoW, by simplifing, and restricting freedom, TSW has went the complete opposite direction. 

Great video thanks OP,  builds are going to be interesting to muck around with. Everything looks great but man those combat animations, does everybody have arthritis or maybe just senior citizens on the war path.

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Chopsticks

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Charlizzard

The theory is sound, but in practice the combat leaves much to be desired. Spam 1 button to generate combo points. Ugh.

Look, TSW has a lot of strengths, combat is not one of them.

The lore, the environment, some of the puzzle quests, the main storyline, all terrific. The constant annoying clumps of mobs detract rather than add to the experience.

Completely agree,

 

I am going to buy TSW, and play it (atleast for the included month) But I must admit, when I got in the weekend beta (And I will be rolling Temps when it's live) the only combat that was any fun for me was shotguns. And thats pretty limited.

 

TSW was fun for me, but more inspite of the combat not because of it. Fortunately, the other parts of the game were fun enough to overcome the average experience I had with the combat.

 

I do think TSW has alot of features and aspects that set it above other games, but combat it prob not the feature anyone needs to be pointing attention to. 

 

Just my opinion.

I'm banging my head on the wall here. It's almost like people are saying "Yeah I see puddles on the ground, storm clouds, lightning, thunder and rain falling from the sky,  but I'm not going to say it's storming."

I don't get what you mean, sorry.

 

This is what I'm saying ;) We have now come full circle. Nice talking with you.

 

What you are saying is wrong. No two ways about it. These are SOME of the attack types. Some. Now you are free to spam one button though...

 

Melee (magic & physical) - single target builders & consumers
Mid range - single target builders & consumers
Range - (magic & physical) single target builders & consumers
 

PBAoE - AoE's centered around you body
GTAoE - Standard ground targeted AoE 
Chains - Attacks that jump from one target to another
Pet Summons - Orbs and turrets and stuff
CC - snares, stuns, silences, knock backs, knock downs
Heals - HoT's & direct single target group and AoE heals 
Shields - group, single & PBAoE
Cleanses - single & multiple buff and debuff
Cool downs - offensive & defensive single and group
Elites - Seem to blend catagories

 

Each of the 500+ fall into one of these catagories. Remember this is not a complete list.

 

Today I make a build that focuses on Cleanses and CC. I will make a melee cleanse/cc build.

 

The next day I might make a melee deck that focuses on shields and chain attacks.

 

Next week I make a build focused on GTAoE and defensice cool downs.

on and on and on.

 

Now that I like a build I'm going to refine it even more. My melee shield/chain attck build will use hinders and weakens, or maybe penatration and stuns., or maybe....

 

Is there another game that I can do this in? Am I missing something? Maybe you are missing a little something ;)

......and after all this ocean of skils...combat system is like ...let me think... :) yes KARATEKA