Originally posted by Kazuhiro

Originally posted by Doomedfox

The second you activated the code is when they have every right to charge you since you did buy the product and used it.

Its a good way to stop all this kids from just wanting a sneak peek and than cancel the order all that causes the company work and no win whatshowever so saying once you used the code you are beeing charges is fine by me.

I preordered the weapon bonus set and planned to decide afterwards if ill upgrade or not after beeing invited to beta and playing for a week i updated to Grandmaster and couldnt be happier i dont understand why someone who doesnt know if he will really like the game or not would get the Grandmaster edition to begin with and than after using the product even gets pissed cause he cant get his money back oh well guess there really are ppl of all kinds out there.

While your wrong on most points. I will agree no one should have bought the grandmaster pack unless they were damn sure they wanted it.

But it makes perfect sense to pre-order a game these days in order to see if a product is worth buying. Then cancel it if it doesn't meet expectations. However I think this should only be used in the event that beta is limited to pre-orders only.

the way i see it, if the game offers early beta access as part of the pre-order, and you buy it and use the early beta, you should not be able to get a refund because you have used what you bought. If you wanted to try the game without paying for it, then you should wait for the open beta and not the early access to closed beta. Just because someone doesn't like the game they bought, doesn't mean they should be able to get a refund for it.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Yalexy

First off, the FAQ on their page told you, that if you're using your preorder to access the beta then you'll be charged, as you've activated the code.

Secondly, you could've gained access to the beta-weekends either through taking part in the Secret War or by getting a free key from another site.

Last but not least, I think that it's unethical to preorder a game to access beta and then do a refund.

With all that said, I'm glad that you've to bite the bullet.

And i'm glad he doesn't.

A "beta" is not considered a "product" under credit card agencies rules.

A beta is a test, not a released product. As such, it is refundable regardless of what Funcom or any other company tries to do on their own end in regards to their "rules".

If he'd played AFTER release and then tried to do a charge back/refund, THAT would be "unethical" and he would not be allowed ( unless he can show proof that the product was irrefuteably different than what he was promised or massively broken such as when people got refunds for Vanguard, Darkfall, and other beyond shitty releases ).

Until Funcom actually ships/releases a "complete" ( as in out of testing phases and released as a 'ready for consumption" product ) product, anything they do to try to deny refunds is null and void. One day, Funcom will realize tricks they use in Norway will not fly in the U.S. and other parts of the globe.

Interesting. I wonder what people will have to say about another game that is selling a game based only on beta access and no visible launch date any time soon, namely GW2.

The life time sub has nothing to do with a preorder, it is a seperate package so I have no idea why they wouldn't refund it.  Life time sub is a subscription option you can opt in before your free time expires.  Is a seperate package.  The beta came with the game, the other offers can't be used yet because the game isn't out.  Other offers being a pay to win weapons pack or pay to win gear with life time subscription.

Just file a complaint with the BBB.

I have no idea why they would do it that way as every other preorder, even of TSW through other places can be canceled.

Originally posted by Angrah

you are absulutely sure that want it. After preordering last month (AND being charged in full for the game) I downloaded and participated in this weekends beta.  The game is kind of lame and boring so I asked for a refund and was told no they do not do refunds.

 

So my warning to you all do not preorder from Funcom unless you are 100% sure you want the game.

 

Angrah

You could have got a free beta key and tried the game.

Only one to blame is yourself.

And after playing the beta I am going to be buying this game.

Originally posted by Searias

Why are you guys pre-ordering a game just to try it out? There are other ways to get beta access. OP what you are trying to do is basically the same as going to a restaurant and ordering something to eat; eating most of it and saying give me my money back, because I didn't enjoy it :P. The beta was part of the pre-order package if you use it you buy it, that's my motto :P. 

So you think that, even though someone may have every intention of buying and subscribing becuase they love what the devs have claimed the game is, they should not have the right to get their money back after being allowed to see ( though beta access ) the game is either not what they were told or is otherwise not what they were expecting? When there has been NO PRODUCT RELEASED therefore there is NO PRODUCT TO SELL?

A pre-order is not a product, it is a promise that there will be a product in the future. You cannot sell a promise, you can only sell a product.

I really can't believe how people are just willing to bend over, grease up, and open wide nowadays.

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Ill preorder tomorrow.

Beside of the fact that Funcom has served my fun nearly 10 years for my solid AO subscribtion, i also played countless hours as fr00b so i feel more then satisfied with them when it comes on entertaining me.

What i saw from the TSW BetaWeekend on youtube was also nice and i hope it will all went well and i can put a step into the game on this weekend.

AO was my first serious experience with this kind of games.

Everything that came post my AO times, was mostly terrible.

Im still with Funcom ^^

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Tell the credit card company you are returning it because you don't like it. They wont give you your money back. But if you lie and say they didn't give you what they said they were then yes they will do the charge back.

And yes if the credit card company starts to see a trend of charge backs they will cancel your cc for abusing it.

If you are pre-ordering without the intention of keeping the game, you always need to look at the return policy.  A lot of games will let you cancel even if you participated in the beta (Tera being a recent example).  Other games do not let you return it after beta acess is used. Its just a life lesson - always find out before you buy.

  I had e-mailed them asking them if they would let me return the product if I did not like the beta and they said that was not their policy.  Which was fine.  I was lucky enough to get a key and trialed it this past weekend.  I enjoyed it so I will be buying it.

---

Originally posted by Zarriya
If you are pre-ordering without the intention of keeping the game, you always need to look at the return policy.  A lot of games will let you cancel even if you participated in the beta (Tera being a recent example).  Other games do not let you return it after beta acess is used. Its just a life lesson - always find out before you buy.
  I had e-mailed them asking them if they would let me return the product if I did not like the beta and they said that was not their policy.  Which was fine.  I was lucky enough to get a key and trialed it this past weekend.  I enjoyed it so I will be buying it.

---

Sticky.

Originally posted by Angrah

you are absulutely sure that want it. After preordering last month (AND being charged in full for the game) I downloaded and participated in this weekends beta.  The game is kind of lame and boring so I asked for a refund and was told no they do not do refunds.

 

So my warning to you all do not preorder from Funcom unless you are 100% sure you want the game.

 

Angrah

With any preorder you take a risk that you won't like it.  I never preorder.  I'd rather wait for it to come out, get some reviews based on the finished product (not the beta), and maybe wait for a free trial.  I find it funny when people preorder,don't like the game, and then get pissed at the publisher. 

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Tell the credit card company you are returning it because you don't like it. They wont give you your money back. But if you lie and say they didn't give you what they said they were then yes they will do the charge back.

 

And yes if the credit card company starts to see a trend of charge backs they will cancel your cc for abusing it.

And if a company gets enough people doing charge backs, that company starts getting fined and can even lose the ability to accept that vendors ( MasterCard, VISA, etc. ) card. And it's real easy to tell them the truth. Product does not come out for another month, no product has been released yet, and the person no longer wishes to purchase it when it does release. That's all the CC company needs to hear. Again, CC companies do NOT consider "beta test" to be a valid purchaseable product. Noone pays to test a game.

I found TSW was as i expected for a funcom game that is releasing in a month and it has funcoms dna all over it which will make the villian easier to identify when the mass exodus starts to happen a couple months in...

Its not the game many think it is but funcom games never are.

Nevertheless it is a very fun game for what it is and certain gamers will love it but like most funcom games many will not like it so much after a short while..

The idea of pre-ordering/pre-purchasing the game is that you are going to BUY it.

It's not for trying the product and then returning it.

The only reason people are allowed to return/cashback pre-orders is because people are rather stupid in general and the consumer protection laws are quite sturdy regardless the country. 

If you pre-order a game to try the included beta access and then cancel your pre-order it basically means you are just abusing the system.

It's the same as ordering a dish at a restaurant and after it's brought to the table you decide you wanted the other dish instead or you are not hungry and don't want to pay for it. This is completely doable but in the end it's just about abusing the system and getting refunded because consumers are generally stupid.

Sure there could be something wrong with the product and you are entitled to get refunded but if the fault doesn't lie in the product instead it's in the consumer it just falls to the stupidity of the consumer.

Cancelling pre-order is either caused by A) The consumer not doing enough study before the purchase decision or B) The business lieing to the consumer about the pre-order.

So I'll conclude this rant with saying that people who cancel pre-orders are mostly stupid and I'm happy FC has made it rather difficult to do.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Tell the credit card company you are returning it because you don't like it. They wont give you your money back. But if you lie and say they didn't give you what they said they were then yes they will do the charge back.

 

And yes if the credit card company starts to see a trend of charge backs they will cancel your cc for abusing it.

And if a company gets enough people doing charge backs, that company starts getting fined and can even lose the ability to accept that vendors ( MasterCard, VISA, etc. ) card. And it's real easy to tell them the truth. Product does not come out for another month, no product has been released yet, and the person no longer wishes to purchase it when it does release. That's all the CC company needs to hear. Again, CC companies do NOT consider "beta test" to be a valid purchaseable product. Noone pays to test a game.

The company wont get any flack if they aren't doing anything wrong as in this case. Funcom has delivered what they said they would deliver as part of the purchase. The only time Funcom or any other company would get fined is if they were promising one thing and then giving the customer something else. Which is not the case in this scenario. Hence the reaon why the OP isn't getting their money back.

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Tell the credit card company you are returning it because you don't like it. They wont give you your money back. But if you lie and say they didn't give you what they said they were then yes they will do the charge back.

 

And yes if the credit card company starts to see a trend of charge backs they will cancel your cc for abusing it.

And if a company gets enough people doing charge backs, that company starts getting fined and can even lose the ability to accept that vendors ( MasterCard, VISA, etc. ) card. And it's real easy to tell them the truth. Product does not come out for another month, no product has been released yet, and the person no longer wishes to purchase it when it does release. That's all the CC company needs to hear. Again, CC companies do NOT consider "beta test" to be a valid purchaseable product. Noone pays to test a game.

The company wont get any flack if they aren't doing anything wrong as in this case. Funcom has delivered what they said they would deliver as part of the purchase. The only time Funcom or any other company would get fined is if they were promising one thing and then giving the customer something else. Which is not the case in this scenario. Hence the reaon why the OP isn't getting their money back.

 

I'll leave you to your beliefs then, as wrong as they may be. I suggest you actually look into how credit card companies work when you get a chance. Final answer: yes, the OP will get his money back.

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Pre-Order....you are pre-ordering the game before it officially hits the shelves. You are buying the product in advance.

 

As part of that purchase is access to the betas. Once you played the beta it was the same as taking the product out of the package.

 

If  I was the credit card company I would cancel your credit card as it is obvious you are not responsible enough to be using one.

 

Funcom gave you everything they advertised...returning something because you decide you don't like it is the fault of the customer.

Good thing the credit card companies, and most sane non-fanbois, disagree with you.

Tell the credit card company you are returning it because you don't like it. They wont give you your money back. But if you lie and say they didn't give you what they said they were then yes they will do the charge back.

 

And yes if the credit card company starts to see a trend of charge backs they will cancel your cc for abusing it.

And if a company gets enough people doing charge backs, that company starts getting fined and can even lose the ability to accept that vendors ( MasterCard, VISA, etc. ) card. And it's real easy to tell them the truth. Product does not come out for another month, no product has been released yet, and the person no longer wishes to purchase it when it does release. That's all the CC company needs to hear. Again, CC companies do NOT consider "beta test" to be a valid purchaseable product. Noone pays to test a game.

The company wont get any flack if they aren't doing anything wrong as in this case. Funcom has delivered what they said they would deliver as part of the purchase. The only time Funcom or any other company would get fined is if they were promising one thing and then giving the customer something else. Which is not the case in this scenario. Hence the reaon why the OP isn't getting their money back.

 

Didn't a company representitive say animations "500 animations will be redone" and didn't a company represenitive say "no powers for sale".

Cool you bought the game on those claims, and after finding out they are untrue you can void the contract.