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Darkfall Review: Darkfall Online Review - Edit
6
| Pros |
 
|
 Good concepts Non-Standard design Well designed world |
| Cons |
 
|
 Clunky controls Huge lack of polish Little content Very niche audience Very poor interface |
Many MMOs that get released tend to follow a pretty standard formula. They appeal to the masses and tend to follow whatever the top game on the market happens to do. That title used to belong to EverQuest, and now it belongs to World of WarCraft. Some games, however, tend to target niche audiences with the hopes of winning over people that are not as interested in the more mainstream titles. In some cases, this has proven to be a very successful strategy, as shown by the ever-increasing subscriber-base of EVE Online. In some cases, however, this tends to fall short, such as what happened to ShadowBane.
Darkfall is a game much like the two mentioned above. It focuses on an open-PvP environment, player-controlled territory, sieges, and guild/alliance wars, with harsh penalties abound. It does not follow the mainstream design for most MMOs, even if it does take place in a fantasy setting. If anything, I would say that it is closest to ShadowBane in design, but with plenty of departures. The question is, does this niche game actually stack up to have a chance at surviving?
Reviewing Darkfall is not easy. I'll be completely honest: at one time, I fit this target demographic and would have loved every concept put forward by this game - and still do like the sound of it quite a bit. However, time (and necessity) can change taste and Darkfall is an unforgiving game that requires a lot of dedicated time if you expect to do anything. If you are a casual gamer, like solo play at all, or aren't keen on losing all of your equipment on death in a completely open-PvP environment... Well, don't touch this game. Period.
For the rest of you? I had a chance to play on the European server both before and after the last major patch to get a feel for this game, so feel free to read on.
Graphics and World
When I first logged into Darkfall with my Human character, I was pretty surprised. Other than the screens that popped up for what was passing as a tutorial - which wasn't much, but it did tell me how to play the game - I was oddly immersed into the world. This was probably in part because the game starts you out in a first person view and you are also locked into this view unless you draw a weapon.
)
The other reason for the immersion, I think, is the way the world is built. In all honesty, every time I saw a screenshot of Darkfall while it was in development, I was always very underwhelmed. In fact, both the character models and the animations are, at least in my opinion, anywhere from 'below average' to 'poor'. The world, however, was a different story. It isn't graphically or technically impressive or anything, but it looked nice in spite of that. A lot of the world simply seemed natural. From the way that towns were set up, to the way the wilderness was constructed. I had the very distinct impression that the world builders really put some love into their creation, and it showed through. On a side-note, every tree, every rock, every bush I saw was harvestable for crafting, I swear. That was awesome.
Of course, if you are a new player hoping to start out with some PvE content before hopping into PvP, the construction of the world may not make you entirely happy. One of the reasons I think the world seemed so believable is that there simply are not a lot of mobs littered around. Realistically, when you walk through woods, you probably are not going to see a lot of life outside of plants, and that is true for Darkfall as well. Mobs can be spaced pretty far apart, so expect to do some exploration to find good hunting grounds.
Controls and Interface
After you found some mobs though, you might start to notice that Darkfall doesn't necessarily play like a normal MMO. There is no auto-attack, for one. You click to attack like you would in an actual action game, and you have to aim your attacks at the target manually. You don't just click on something and start spamming off special abilities like you do in most games. This is also true for all types of attacks. You click to swing your sword, and you manually aim your arrows and spells before firing. In a way, it really does almost play like an 'Oblivion Online'.
Regretfully, the controls aren't set up as well as they could be. For the most part, everything seems pretty normal. Left click to attack, WASD to move, etc... However, there are a few puzzling choices to me. I really have no idea why they chose 'v' for parrying and blocking, and had to quickly remap that. While I really had few issues with the keyboard controls, I wouldn't be surprised if some people found some of the choices awkward.
)
The interface over all is strange and doesn't stick to conventions. First off, since you are always in a mouse-view, you need to open up your main interface to fiddle with the things you might do in a GUI on an MMO. When doing any of these things, you lose the ability to control your character, but it frees up your mouse. You can then check any UI window, and with another quick button press everything vanishes and you are in control of your character again. It almost sounds elegant, and it almost is elegant. However, in what I found to be a trend when it came to Darkfall, it falls short. Essentially speaking, the interface itself is horribly ugly and extremely clunky. I honestly can't think of an MMO with a GUI that I've disliked more, and I've played some with nasty ones (I'm looking at you, DDO!).
How you interact with the environment also feels very strange and will turn off a large number of people, but I do admit that I understand some of their choices. The best example of this is looting. When you kill something, it drops a grave that holds the items the character or mob possessed, and anyone can loot it. To loot it though, you have to put your weapons away, and then click on the grave. You then have to drag each item over into your own inventory window one by one. That alone would be enough to irritate an awful lot of people, but this is a niche game after all. I understand why the developers decided to do that: it means that looting a corpse is something that has to be approached tactically, or else you're likely going to take a sword to the back of the head from another player.
What did bother me was the inventory screen. It isn't a list of items. It isn't even a grid where you have to fit things into some bag. Instead, it is just a window that holds sprites of inventory items that features no way of sorting through them at all. Items also just appear where ever you drop them, even over other items. This was just irritating, and as someone who insists on a neatly organized bag, I spent way more time than I care to think about sorting through inventory.
The summary is my feeling exactly. Good review and bang on IMO.
I think the 6 was a tad generous.
Another review of this game where the text doesn't alligne with the score.
If you read the review you imagine a score below 6 instead you find a 6.
I was thinking the exact same thing once I read the review. Especially his wrap up. Just didn't seem to really match the score it was given. But, after playing it myself, I can agree with the text of the review for the most part. Personally, I thought the world was not well done either, too much clipping of placed items. And yes, don't need to be tripping over mobs, but walk in a forest and there will be birds, small scurrying animals, insects etc. Darkfall feels almost lifeless when you are out on your own.
It is really too bad the game turned out as it did, with most of the niche games there will be a make or break period that decides which people stay and which people go, the hardcore/niche community may stay through months of bad stability and bugs, while the crowd who come just to test a new type of game probably will go back to their old game when met with bugs and unfinished content, the reputation the game while have after that usually scares of anyone who is ''on the brink'' of testing it, lowering the income of the company which usually kills the chance the company has of bettering the game.
Funny other than "his wrap up" he mostly like the features, world graphics, combat etc and i thought the review was very accurate and honest....but i agree the write up didnt match the score, was expecting a higher end 6 maybe touching 7 :)
Oops didnt realise i pressed quote! i wasnt meaning to mate :)
/agree
Reviewers are soo afraid of a hellstorm because of they predominantly are a business. If they give a too low score then they are afraid to piss of the fans so they don't come back to mmorpg.com or piss of companies that could potentially bring in revenue i the future.
Giving a game like Darkfall with antiquated graphics, lame gameplay mechanics and total lack of pve a 6 is a joke.
Maybe a clarification is in order on the score. I thought it was on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being unplayable while 10 it was completely playable and perfect.
If you read his article, the 6 would fit based on the above logic; however I don't remember if that logic applied to reviews or it was used only in other parts of the mmorpg.com website.
They aren't afraid of "pissing off fans." lol
If you think that, you haven't seen some of the things they feature, write, or link to. I mean, in this very article he basically says that Vanguard had more polish than Darkfall. If that isn't asking for players to respond strongly, I don't know what is.
Beau
They aren't afraid of "pissing off fans." lol
If you think that, you haven't seen some of the things they feature, write, or link to. I mean, in this very article he basically says that Vanguard had more polish than Darkfall. If that isn't asking for players to respond strongly, I don't know what is.
Beau
Because they know a rave review or anything remotely like it would spark even more hate on the forums. I really doubt anyone can seriously give it a 6 / 10 if you aren't a diehard fan.
Look at this:
Final Score
6
Acceptable
Pros
Good concepts
Non-Standard design
Well designed world
Cons
Clunky controls
Huge lack of polish
Little content
Very niche audience
Very poor interface
Consider:
What game could possibly then get a 1, 2 or 3? Or even a four or five?
This is not serious reviewing.
Well, I don't really agree with the reviewer I have been playing DF since release on EU and now I am on NA. I can't go back to the cartoon games ever again, DF graphic are very cool I think the down side is most people don't have a power house machine to turn up the graphic past medium it really is the next GEN in graphic games. I played wow for 4 years and many others and I just couldn't get past the graphics, but then again these are things I value, maybe most readers look for quest where I personally couldn't give a dang about quest. DF world is so huge I keep finding new things all the time.
is it a niche game maybe, but I enjoy it. Like the reviewer said if you don't have the stomach for losing your stuff then don't play it. but for the most part understand that your stuff will come and go, As for the banking system you use bags to organise your items. the bank is endless in size and free at the get go. you used colored bags to organize your stuff.
They aren't afraid of "pissing off fans." lol
If you think that, you haven't seen some of the things they feature, write, or link to. I mean, in this very article he basically says that Vanguard had more polish than Darkfall. If that isn't asking for players to respond strongly, I don't know what is.
Beau
Maybe because Vanguard was when it launched. I played Vanguard at launch and I happen to get a chance to play DFO a few times on a friends account and vanguard was way more finished and polished compared to DFO. So don't even go there.
I think that review was truly terrible.
The PvP is impressive? 90% of PvP is well-equipped more experienced players killing naked ones. At best it could be described as humorous.
And the racial alignment penalty system.... nice how he just completely glossed over the many and varied ways that this is exploited.
Personally I really enjoyed the combat system in this game. FPS was a nice change. I do miss it.
But the fusion of heavy skill-grinding and full-loot open pvp makes a joke of this game. PvP isn't about castle sieges or big, impressive battles - it's just a non-stop gankfest.
This is a game where the devs turn a blind eye to macro'ing and botting, because going afk for several hours while other players hit you with a sword is apparently good game design....
This game wont ever get better then a 6 or 7, and it does lack polish, and the melee fighting at the moment is dull, also the time sinks are a bit of a pain or the fact that you can master everything.
But I like the game, and I am one of those niche that fell in love with it.
Thanks for the laugh!
6? Sheesh, sorry, but thats an entirely political rating if I may say so, not to aggravate anyone too much. Bad enough for the haters, not too bad for the fanbois. Sorry, but compared to other sixes DFO is NO 6 at all. Period.
A score of 5 would be generous, 6 is charity.
Right because 6 for you is based on nice and pretty butterfly worlds and no actual gameplay or risk.
People who like conquest, PVP, FPS, will like this game.
Only thing I think needs changing, is a few mechanics, the grind(or skill cap added) and more depth in melee combat.
Everything else is perfect to me, I did not come here to "Quest" for you mentioning that you should hear the line GO BACK TO WOW.
{ Mod Edit }
WoW did not even have current generation graphics at launch. There are mmos older than WoW that have better graphics than WoW.
Also DF does not have next gen graphics. It has current/sub current graphics. Mostly for large pvp battle streamline reasons yes? Though it DOES look much better than WoW. (Though that's not saying much.)
Right because 6 for you is based on nice and pretty butterfly worlds and no actual gameplay or risk.
People who like conquest, PVP, FPS, will like this game.
Only thing I think needs changing, is a few mechanics, the grind(or skill cap added) and more depth in melee combat.
Everything else is perfect to me, I did not come here to "Quest" for you mentioning that you should hear the line GO BACK TO WOW.
I'd stay away from making broad comments as you'll usually find you're wrong. I like conquest, PvP and FPS games but I don't like Darkfall. And yes, I've played it to know that I don't like it.
Is it just me or did the reviewer actually say more good things than bad about it? and that he actually enjoyed most of what he talked about untill the very end of his review? did i miss a page or something? it seemed he enjoyed most of the game but scored it down mainly due to lack of fulfilling potential!
In this respect giving it a 6 compared to his review seems fair to me! and being a player myself thought that the game although had some good features and did some things well...just wasnt for him and didnt deserve a well rounded 7...so well done to him, honest and well write.
Maybe because Vanguard was when it launched. I played Vanguard at launch and I happen to get a chance to play DFO a few times on a friends account and vanguard was way more finished and polished compared to DFO. So don't even go there.
He can't help it. He has a personal axe to grind with Vanguard, so I'm told, lol! But I agree with you, Vanguard was more polished than Darkfall (not that that is saying much) relatively speaking at respective launches.
I'd stay away from making broad comments as you'll usually find you're wrong. I like conquest, PvP and FPS games but I don't like Darkfall. And yes, I've played it to know that I don't like it.
I wonder if you are one of those unlucky ones that had it the first month, or played in beta. Lol the game changed, and judging by a lot of the comments in this thread it seems, most of them have not played it the last few months.
The game changed, they had a rockey launch, name a game that did not?
Also name one other game that has conquest/pvp/fps in a mmorpg?
Sorry but this is another carebear OPINION, which has no siege or raiding, no talking about combat on mounts, archery, killing dragons, fighting on boats/war hulks, sorry but this is a premature review from a flawed reviewer.
I have to totally disagree with this. WoW's graphics are stylized and very well done. The animations are top notch compared to most MMORPG's - because Blizzard reworks them if necessary to get them right. I've played DFO and the animations are not fluid and sometimes down right ugly. DFO is a good game, but it is nothing to brag about.
Show me anything in DFO that comes close to being this cool and you win.
Bigger Pic <<< clicky here
I have to totally disagree with this. WoW's graphics are stylized and very well done. The animations are top notch compared to most MMORPG's - because Blizzard reworks them if necessary to get them right. I've played DFO and the animations are not fluid and sometimes down right ugly. DFO is a good game, but it is nothing to brag about.
Show me anything in DFO that comes close to being this cool and you win.
Bigger Pic <<< clicky here
Graphics or 100 vs 100 combat, let me choose, O here is a fun fact DFO IS A PVP game lol.
Just for the sake of conversation:
LoTRO was perceived to have a pretty smooth launch. At the time, there were no end of forum posts commenting as much.
As for your second question...perhaps Planetside would fit the bill.
Just for the sake of conversation:
LoTRO was perceived to have a pretty smooth launch. At the time, there were no end of forum posts commenting as much.
As for your second question...perhaps Planetside would fit the bill.
O ya because in planetside you risk a a lot in Pvp, lol only thing that would come close is EVE, and eve's combat gets boring fast, not saying DFO wont either, but atm its nice and the more I get into it the more fun I have.
Only thing that will look remotely like DFO is MO, but that will probably have too much fluff/graphics to have any real large scale battles/conquests.
I would not give DFO a higher then a 7.5 still, but if they made the grind less tedium(and add in a skill cap or prestige classes) and made melee combat more in depth then it would be a 9 TO ME(as for polish who gives a sht, I did not come to play DFO for little wildlife animals, I came here for a competitve game, that you have risk vs reward)
I'd stay away from making broad comments as you'll usually find you're wrong. I like conquest, PvP and FPS games but I don't like Darkfall. And yes, I've played it to know that I don't like it.
I wonder if you are one of those unlucky ones that had it the first month, or played in beta. Lol the game changed, and judging by a lot of the comments in this thread it seems, most of them have not played it the last few months.
The game changed, they had a rockey launch, name a game that did not?
Also name one other game that has conquest/pvp/fps in a mmorpg?
Sorry but this is another carebear OPINION, which has no siege or raiding, no talking about combat on mounts, archery, killing dragons, fighting on boats/war hulks, sorry but this is a premature review from a flawed reviewer.
I played the first month, yeah. I can't think of another MMORPG that has conquest. PvP and a mandatory FPV. Which is why it's a shame for me. If it had had the production pocketbook (money) of a AAA company it would have been more polished and I'd probably be still playing.
As for the reviewer's opinion, it's his opinion. No need to flame him because you disagree. The way you're sounding the only thing you'd accept is a non-critical review of the game with a 9 or 10 rating. Truth be told, the game does have many flaws and is not polished (and I say is because AoC taught us that in truth there are no miracle patches). Is it playable and enjoyable for some? Sure. You like it. That's cool. But just because someone else doesn't, calling them "carebear" doesn't prove anything about them or invalidate their opinion. Just makes you look bad, that's all. *shrug*
Graphics or 100 vs 100 combat, let me choose, O here is a fun fact DFO IS A PVP game lol.
Umm...I play on a PvP server in WoW. DFO's so called FPS type combat is a joke. AV said numerous times that their combat was going to be awesome and even went so far as to say it was like Mount and Blades combat. That was an out right lie. LOL! You have one vertical attack and one horizontal attack for melee. Shields cannot actively block anything - they just add to mitigate damage. Not like Mount and Blades where shields really can block swords, arrows and what not. DFO's combat is a joke. The archery in the game sucks. The sounds for the archery sucks. OMG when I played the combat sounds were the worse I'd ever encountered in a game. Anyway, when DFO gets combat like Mount and Blade - then come talk to me. Until then, it is a psuedo FPS wannabe combat.
God I should do a review on DFO - I would not be so nice as MMORPG.com was. Game would be lucky to get a 4 from me.
Graphics or 100 vs 100 combat, let me choose, O here is a fun fact DFO IS A PVP game lol.
Umm...I play on a PvP server in WoW. DFO's so called FPS type combat is a joke. AV said numerous times that their combat was going to be awesome and even went so far as to say it was like Mount and Blades combat. That was an out right lie. LOL! You have one vertical attack and one horizontal attack for melee. Shields cannot actively block anything - they just add to mitigate damage. Not like Mount and Blades where shields really can block swords, arrows and what not. DFO's combat is a joke. The archery in the game sucks. The sounds for the archery sucks. OMG when I played the combat sounds were the worse I'd ever encountered in a game. Anyway, when DFO gets combat like Mount and Blade - then come talk to me. Until then, it is a psuedo FPS wannabe combat.
God I should do a review on DFO - I would not be so nice as MMORPG.com was. Game would be lucky to get a 4 from me.
Lol if I rated WOW I would call it the dullest game alive? your point? we both have different opinions, ya melee is not in depth, and it does screw up the immersion, but for people who say it does not take skills are ignorant. And for the above you poster, No wonder why you though DFO was a disaster, no doubt they released it way to early.
Try Na now, lots have changed, have you fought on a mount with DFO btw? lol dont know what mount and blade is like, but the mount combat is extremely skillful, and archery is too, magic is skillful up to a extent, unless you got those giant AOE's but those do only do good damage when you have a group of 10 casting them at other groups.
I bet most of you are basing dfo combat off the 2her combat, which is why you premature review this game, It needs work, and they changed and fixed a lot, but How long was it before EVE actually had a large playerbase and started getting reviews pass 5-6?
retract fast mate or you take the risk of talking about something you dont have a clue about...shilesd block around 95% damage, which is like taking a hit from a 40 kilo sowrd in real life and catching it on a shiled...Fact is it will still hurt you :) so give AV credit for that one!
Very good review, best I have read on MMORPG for a looong time.
No...sorry. Want to compare how Mount and Blade handles combat and DFO handles combat. Play Mount and Blade and tell me it is the same as DFO. Because it isn't even close. LOL!
Here...download and try Mount and Blade <<< download here.
Sorry DFO's and Mount and Blades combat are not the same and shields in DFO are not like shields in Mount and Blade.
No...sorry. Want to compare how Mount and Blade handles combat and DFO handles combat. Play Mount and Blade and tell me it is the same as DFO. Because it isn't even close. LOL!
Here...download and try Mount and Blade <<< download here.
Sorry DFO's and Mount and Blades combat are not the same and shields in DFO are not like shields in Mount and Blade.
Not saying they are friend sorry if i came across like that.
I just meant that the shields usage in DF is rather well done and quite realistic in game terms. sorryi came across wrong :)
Wow you play on a pvp server in wow, damn that's so cool
Sorry my good man, shields do actively block. "V" is the default button to do this, seems you was to much of a noob to find it. Archery is very good. The FPV system is actually one of the absolut best features in DF, one of the few things the managed to do well. The sounds is awful yes, and there is alot of other stuff wrong with DF also. I know I will get accused for being a fanboy, but the truth is faaaaaar from it.
{ Mod Edit }
Well I like the truth of this reviewer..And he said>>Darkfall is a game that is filled with great ideas and good intentions. Darkfall is a game that seems to fall short on just about everything it has, too. For having been in development for so very long, the game simply felt like an early beta build when I played.
To bad he lied on the score of 6..I am sure his real intention would a been allot lower..SO i believe the rating of Euro gamer gave ...a 2/10
Actually, I already went there.
I know how VG was at launch, my point (too subtle I guess) is that there are a few things that people will take as the truth, despite not seeing themselves, and one of those things is that VG was literally unplayable at launch. I know because after doing a Vanguard podcast for a year I heard those people, over and over, even after VG was chugging along just fine: "You mean you can actually PLAY VG?"
In other words, by saying that (the comment about VG) he could have sparked off more "controversy" than anything else he said.
And there is a difference between "polished" and "working." Vanguard STILL has probably more bugs than most games out there. Doesn't mean it's bad, and doesn't mean that it's unplayable (in fact ,the opposite) that just means that it has more than most.
Beau
Nice generous score of 6. So this game falls in-between a 2 like poop from Eurogamer and 6, as in mediocre, from mmorpg.com.
That about sums up the breadth, depth, and content for this experiment in shadyness and scam called Darkfall.
Wow you play on a pvp server in wow, damn that's so cool
Sorry my good man, shields do actively block. "V" is the default button to do this, seems you was to much of a noob to find it. Archery is very good, you probably have the aim of a 85 year old woman and therefor think the system sucks when it is infact you that sucks. The FPV system is actually one of the absolut best features in DF, one of the few things the managed to do well. The sounds is awful yes, and there is alot of other stuff wrong with DF also. I know I will get accused for being a fanboy, but the truth is faaaaaar from it. I just cant stand morons lie and spreading untrue rumours.
LOL! I am dying here.
O ya because in planetside you risk a a lot in Pvp, lol only thing that would come close is EVE, and eve's combat gets boring fast, not saying DFO wont either, but atm its nice and the more I get into it the more fun I have.
Only thing that will look remotely like DFO is MO, but that will probably have too much fluff/graphics to have any real large scale battles/conquests.
I would not give DFO a higher then a 7.5 still, but if they made the grind less tedium(and add in a skill cap or prestige classes) and made melee combat more in depth then it would be a 9 TO ME(as for polish who gives a sht, I did not come to play DFO for little wildlife animals, I came here for a competitve game, that you have risk vs reward)
Planetside has everything your original question stated as far as I am aware. If you want to add conditions to your quesiton after asking it, then sure, the looting in EvE is closer. That said, combat in EvE is just about completely opposite of DF. Since combat/PvP is such a significant part of either game, I believe Planetside would be a more direct comparison due to combat mechanics. But hey, just my opinion. You asked two specific questions and got two specific answers.
As far as MO, a lot remains to be seen and it's not really the time to compare it to DF yet. On paper, it sounds like it will give DF a run for its money in some areas. On paper, DF was going to be received a lot better though. Only time will tell....
Actually, I already went there.
I know how VG was at launch, my point (too subtle I guess) is that there are a few things that people will take as the truth, despite not seeing themselves, and one of those things is that VG was literally unplayable at launch. I know because after doing a Vanguard podcast for a year I heard those people, over and over, even after VG was chugging along just fine: "You mean you can actually PLAY VG?"
In other words, by saying that (the comment about VG) he could have sparked off more "controversy" than anything else he said.
And there is a difference between "polished" and "working." Vanguard STILL has probably more bugs than most games out there. Doesn't mean it's bad, and doesn't mean that it's unplayable (in fact ,the opposite) that just means that it has more than most.
Beau
Maybe for you. It played fine on my gaming rig. I even posted fraps vids to prove it back in the day when everyone said it was not playable. So do you really wish to go there. Not only was my gaming rig playing Vanguard, but running fraps at the time. Yet, Vanguard was unplayable. ::shakes her head::
Maybe for you. It played fine on my gaming rig. I even posted fraps vids to prove it back in the day when everyone said it was not playable. So do you really wish to go there. Not only was my gaming rig playing Vanguard, but running fraps at the time. Yet, Vanguard was unplayable. ::shakes her head::
I think you two are on the same team on this one...
I have to wonder at the validity of any review from this site. This is compounded by the fact that you have recently changed your review criteria from being set to subjective.
Your older reviews had 8 set values you reviewed and scored. These were:
Graphics
role-play
fun
performance
sound
value
community
service
Now that has been replaced with a rather general pros and cons section. Worse reviews typically do not support the scores you give games. Have you guys actually scored a game badly in the past 6 month... by bad I mean a 4 or less. Even neosteam managed a 6 on your scale. If you refuse to use the whole scale when grading a game then that scale and your review becomes meaningless. TCoS ranked a 7.7 and yet has almost completely failed... one thing not addressed in your review was the fact that the development company was shaky at best. Something that ultimately killed the game.
You did not touch on sound, community, or service in this review. Other criteria like performance, fun, and value were vaguely addressed at the conclusion with nothing substantive about them. For a review that was worked over quite a bit (from a previous mods post responses) it lacked substantive content.
I could care less about what you grade DF as it is all subjective anyways, but I do care if the grading is substantive and above all consistant. You use to have consistancy. Now though you have thrown that away to be more vague. Your reviews seem to be more about appeasing publishers then informing the players.
Please go back to your old criteria and address things like community and service. This latest review was pointless and rather uninformative.
This review was very generous for as serious as many of DFs failings are.
As mentioned before, the comparatively "bad" community and the shady nature of how AV has operated thus far, deserved mention and should be included to offer prospective players more complete information. Those things could be the difference between having someone on the fence get upset for wasting their money or being grateful to this site for stopping them from making a bad purchase.
Beyond debate is that the DF community is one of the worst (not welcoming, not helpful) in recent memory for a newly released game, and that AV and Tasos have gone back on their word about allowing 1 toon per server to 1 toon per acct, forcing NA players on the EU server to shell out another $50 to play on the NA server. Too Bad MMORPG decided to give DF a free pass on those, not even mentioning them in passing.
As a player who only played on other people's accts for a limited time, and considering these overlooked points, this game deserves no better than a 4.
i think Morpg are inteelegent enough to realise that NA players only have to shell out 50 dollars more if they dont have the patience to wait for transfers friend...so why would they mention it lol? look up previous forum threads and youll find thats been exhausted...even more so now that Tasos has came and anounced that its looking like they might not need any restrictions on transfers :) But you can understand why they didnt mention it.
Im suprised that after 3 months he didnt mention raiding and sieging though! i mean arent they meant to be this games selling points?
lol or not, u know nothign about Darkfall. I am sure u never played it..
First of all you have more then 2 kind of mele strikes
- Normal attack (horizontal and vertical)
- Power strike (affecting with DOT, but the effect is different for the differnet kind of weapons )
- Knockback attack (makes your opponent jump back when u hit him)
- Whirlwind attack (character spins arround hitting all nearby targets)
- Seize attack (pulling the enemy towards you)
you have this strikes for all weapons..
- Blocking DO WORK! ..and works very well if you know how to save stamina. Some people say its overpowered, because drains stamina of the attacker..
- Archery sucks?? its exactly like on Mount and Blade so wtf you complain about?? .. its the best skill in the game
- Magic: fireballs, wall of fire, acid rain, buffs and stamina/mana/health management spell makes every battle different!
but i guess all this menace nothing to you since you never played the game....why are you talking about something you obviously have no idea about??
Because they know a rave review or anything remotely like it would spark even more hate on the forums. I really doubt anyone can seriously give it a 6 / 10 if you aren't a diehard fan.
Look at this:
Final Score
6
Acceptable
Pros
Good concepts
Non-Standard design
Well designed world
Cons
Clunky controls
Huge lack of polish
Little content
Very niche audience
Very poor interface
Consider:
What game could possibly then get a 1, 2 or 3? Or even a four or five?
This is not serious reviewing.
Um let me count the ways....Superman 64 for the Nintendo 64, Castlevania 64, Several "Myst" games, And probably a host of other F2P MMOs.
Oh and lets not forget the worst made game of all time: E.T. for the Atari 2600.
So yeah, the 6 was a bit generous, but then again, the game does exactly what it was designed to do, which is provide a place for all those gankers to go and run around naked.
Because they know a rave review or anything remotely like it would spark even more hate on the forums. I really doubt anyone can seriously give it a 6 / 10 if you aren't a diehard fan.
Look at this:
Final Score
6
Acceptable
Pros
Good concepts
Non-Standard design
Well designed world
Cons
Clunky controls
Huge lack of polish
Little content
Very niche audience
Very poor interface
Consider:
What game could possibly then get a 1, 2 or 3? Or even a four or five?
This is not serious reviewing.
Exactly.
i mean he put in the pros Good concepts and Non-standard design, come on those two points are the most vague pro i have ever read.
And anyway how good concepts can be a pro when in the review it's clear that those concepts failed to be applied into the game?
If it's a niche game why not rate it for the niche audience? I would give this game an 8. I absolutely love it.
Of course it gets low scores from places that rate WOW high.
I think it deserves at least 1 more point for making these forums what they are! if it wasn't for darkfall these forums would be boring so it's official
Darkfall scored 7!
Games such as Command & Conquer 1 and Elders Scrolls 2 Daggerfall are better then Daikatana online. Shut up and BAW else where over your OMG LOW SCOREZZZZZ. If close to everyone is rating the game low then close to all those millions are either on crack or JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND DA GAME? No moron your all living in a fantasy world. It's called go outside.
Exactly, my point.
If you like it you like if you love it you love it and if you hate it you hate it.
And you review will be based on your feelings for it, this review was terrible, but the question is can you review such a game, because If I reviewed I wil give it around 7.5(or did) and a 8.5-9 if more diversity and melee combat was better.
To me everything In DFO takes some type of player skills and character skill, which is a mix between MMOFPS and MMORPG.
I love dfo, obviously this guy does not, which is why he gave it aroun da 6 , because he knows its for a niche, but still this review is flawed to say the least.
Exactly, my point.
If you like it you like if you love it you love it and if you hate it you hate it.
And you review will be based on your feelings for it, this review was terrible, but the question is can you review such a game, because If I reviewed I wil give it around 7.5(or did) and a 8.5-9 if more diversity and melee combat was better.
To me everything In DFO takes some type of player skills and character skill, which is a mix between MMOFPS and MMORPG.
I love dfo, obviously this guy does not, which is why he gave it aroun da 6 , because he knows its for a niche, but still this review is flawed to say the least.
Because we all know that if the score doesnt agree with your professional one then its flawed. You guys are funny and this is why I check the DF day after day.
As far as Shadowbane goes, its only downfall was server lags & nothing else. Graphics were a bit outdated but not at launch. The only game to date where smarts, skill & a cool head could cause 1 player to destroy a whole group of enemies. I remember taking on 5 peeps at once with my high defense shade warlock 2 months after release & killing 3 b4 the other 2 ran. I was sold for life. No stupid WoW can give you that feeling of accomplishment.
Exactly, my point.
If you like it you like if you love it you love it and if you hate it you hate it.
And you review will be based on your feelings for it, this review was terrible, but the question is can you review such a game, because If I reviewed I wil give it around 7.5(or did) and a 8.5-9 if more diversity and melee combat was better.
To me everything In DFO takes some type of player skills and character skill, which is a mix between MMOFPS and MMORPG.
I love dfo, obviously this guy does not, which is why he gave it aroun da 6 , because he knows its for a niche, but still this review is flawed to say the least.
So first you fanbots want the reviewer to spend alot of time in game. This reviewer did.
Now, that's not good enough. Since you didn't get a good score, you raise the standard higher by claiming the reviewer has to love the game in order for it to be a valid review, claiming that different gaming mindsets will inevitably taint the review with bias; in this case, bias toward Darkfall because it's a sandbox game, and you assume the reviewer is some WoW themepark noob who didn't like the game because of that reason.
You guys are ridiculous, but your posts are funny.
omg its darkfail again
Umm...I play on a PvP server in WoW. DFO's so called FPS type combat is a joke. AV said numerous times that their combat was going to be awesome and even went so far as to say it was like Mount and Blades combat. That was an out right lie. LOL! You have one vertical attack and one horizontal attack for melee. Shields cannot actively block anything - they just add to mitigate damage. Not like Mount and Blades where shields really can block swords, arrows and what not. DFO's combat is a joke. The archery in the game sucks. The sounds for the archery sucks. OMG when I played the combat sounds were the worse I'd ever encountered in a game. Anyway, when DFO gets combat like Mount and Blade - then come talk to me. Until then, it is a psuedo FPS wannabe combat.
God I should do a review on DFO - I would not be so nice as MMORPG.com was. Game would be lucky to get a 4 from me.
You should.
So first you fanbots want the reviewer to spend alot of time in game. This reviewer did.
Now, that's not good enough. Since you didn't get a good score, you raise the standard higher by claiming the reviewer has to love the game in order for it to be a valid review, claiming that different gaming mindsets will inevitably taint the review with bias; in this case, bias toward Darkfall because it's a sandbox game, and you assume the reviewer is some WoW themepark noob who didn't like the game because of that reason.
You guys are ridiculous, but your posts are funny.
So if me, someone who hates games with classes and linear gameplay were to rate warhammer, wow, or AION people wouldn't get mad when I gave them a 5?
Of course they would.
Get someone who's favorite type of game is a sandbox, skill based game with good pvp and you'll have an honest review.
As it is now you're having a wine reviewer rate beer. Same category, but a lot different.
Incidentally, I think these x out of 10 reviews don't work. I mean, really, what IS the difference between a 7 and an 8?
It should be out of 5
So first you fanbots want the reviewer to spend alot of time in game. This reviewer did.
Now, that's not good enough. Since you didn't get a good score, you raise the standard higher by claiming the reviewer has to love the game in order for it to be a valid review, claiming that different gaming mindsets will inevitably taint the review with bias; in this case, bias toward Darkfall because it's a sandbox game, and you assume the reviewer is some WoW themepark noob who didn't like the game because of that reason.
You guys are ridiculous, but your posts are funny.
So if me, someone who hates games with classes and linear gameplay were to rate warhammer, wow, or AION people wouldn't get mad when I gave them a 5?
Of course they would.
Get someone who's favorite type of game is a sandbox, skill based game with good pvp and you'll have an honest review.
As it is now you're having a wine reviewer rate beer. Same category, but a lot different.
I think all reviews that judge by score all stupid IMO.
And No to the above 6th page post I never said he has to love it(get yourself checked out, you are hearing voices)
I am just simply stating that a reviewer will give WOW a 10 out of 10, and DFO a 4 out of 10, because its not their cup of tea, they should just state facts about the game, and how they played it and how they liked/disliked it, and leave the score out, and generally point towards the people who Might find it interesting.
I do not think Dfo is perfect, and the devs are way off from perfect. But it is still a game I love and will continue to play until something of its genre gets developed better.
I find it fun, challenging and tactical, while the next man may find it boring,annoying,sloppy.
Its all what your cup of tea is, obviously someone who will rat WOW a 10 will not rate DFO a high score nor would someone who rates DFO a 10 will rate WOW a high score.
And not to mention you did not cover the full game at all, and I am not a fanboy, I always post about the negatives of this game(so much I got banned from DFO forums for always posting negatives about the game), But I still love this game and post because I want it to appeal to more of the SHEEP, so me and other wolves can have you for dinner in game.
Do I feel DFO needs work? (skill cap/grind/more rpg/pve/crafting content,better melee combat) Yes, But what I think needs more work some may think perfect.
Reviews of games are pure opinions nothing more nothing less. Most of the niche crowd know this.
I think a 6/10 would convert to a 2.5 or a 3 out of 5.
This from the review:
"In fact, I just couldn't find it playable in any enjoyable way."
And yet the game garners a 6/10, which is 'acceptable'. If the reviewer finds that the game was not enjoyable in any way, that does not seem acceptable at all. I think there was a disconnect between the rating and what the reviewer said.
Maybe for you. It played fine on my gaming rig. I even posted fraps vids to prove it back in the day when everyone said it was not playable. So do you really wish to go there. Not only was my gaming rig playing Vanguard, but running fraps at the time. Yet, Vanguard was unplayable. ::shakes her head::
Oh dear sweet Lord, Teala.
I am saying that is WAS NOT unplayable. I am refering to this "universal truth" that people still seem to believe. That's why I said that people would still ask me if I was able to PLAY VG after I had done a podcast for a year about the game, talking about how wonderful it is. And did you not notice THIS part:
"
and doesn't mean that it's unplayable (in fact ,the opposite) that just means that it has more than most.
"
As a matter of fact, I too have made videos (from a long time ago,) showing VG being played on MY cheap, cheap system.
http://www.gaxonline.com/video/1511077:Video:55745
Next time I will break it down slower.
And where did anyone hear I have a "beef" with Vanguard? It must have been the fan-cast, the interviews and the blogs I continue to write about it being one of my favorite games.
Beau
Sorry, but eating shit is a "niche activity", and except for shit-eaters it is not considered nice.
And a gamer can play a "themepark" and a "sanbox" and discern whitch one is good or bad.
Maybe for you. It played fine on my gaming rig. I even posted fraps vids to prove it back in the day when everyone said it was not playable. So do you really wish to go there. Not only was my gaming rig playing Vanguard, but running fraps at the time. Yet, Vanguard was unplayable. ::shakes her head::
Oh dear sweet Lord, Teala.
I am saying that is WAS NOT unplayable. I am refering to this "universal truth" that people still seem to believe. That's why I said that people would still ask me if I was able to PLAY VG after I had done a podcast for a year about the game, talking about how wonderful it is. And did you not notice THIS part:
"
As a matter of fact, I too have made videos (from a long time ago,) showing VG being played on MY cheap, cheap system.
http://www.gaxonline.com/video/1511077:Video:55745
Next time I will break it down slower.
And where did anyone hear I have a "beef" with Vanguard? It must have been the fan-cast, the interviews and the blogs I continue to write about it being one of my favorite games.
Beau
and doesn't mean that it's unplayable (in fact ,the opposite) that just means that it has more than most.
"
OK fine. We can agree on this. :) LOL! Forgive me, for being so quick to respond incorrectly, I should have followed my own rule and wait a day before commenting on things I know I will hotly debate. Forgive me for jumping the gun. I am sorry. ^_^
I think someone else said you ahd a "beef" with Vanguard. Because I did not. Anyway, ..."we're fine here, everything is fine...umm..we seem to have a reactor leak...." lol
I'd be careful about wanting a true sandbox style gamer to review Darkfall. It would likely get lower than the 6 mmorpg.com generously gave it.
FYI, DF is not a sandbox MMO as much as an open PvP game. There's too much of it that's static for it to be considered a sandbox, especially cities.
edit: Before you fanboys start insulting me like all the post launch mindless fans do, please realize I followed the game for years before it released and played for a few months after launch so I actually do know the game mechanics and can tell when you're bullshitting, like earlier when someone tried to play off the completely worthless in real combat melee skills as different melee styles.
This is true. There is also not enough to DO in the game. A little crafting, some exploring and hardly any role-play are not enough to make it anything but a slightly fancier FPS.
Don;t get me wrong, for being a slightly fancier FPS, it is a good game. Just don't expect any other than that. Within a year or two, though, who knows how it might be doing? I think that graphically it;s set up pretty well, now they just need to add something to do besided jumping around.
EDIT: I am not going to correct my typos. Let this be a lesson to you guys: never type while on the way out the door! :)
Beau
What exactly did Bulger not like?
"the controls aren't set up as well as they could be"
So rebind them. Big deal.
"the interface itself is horribly ugly and extremely clunky."
Ugly? Opinion. Clunky? Why not just bind a key to each and every interface window? M for map. B for backpack. etc? Usually when I read reviews about a interface I hear words like functionality and design.
"You then have to drag each item over into your own inventory window one by one. That alone would be enough to irritate an awful lot of people.."
"What did bother me was the inventory screen...This was just irritating, and as someone who insists on a neatly organized bag"
Do don't like manual loot we get it. I am not sure what the inventory screen is but lets assume it's the backpack/bank. It wasn't to your liking. Fine, you're OCD about all your pretty little trinkets. Get colored sacks and bags and organize your little heart out. This is such an insignificant aspect of the game, to waste 11 lines on it is ridiculous.
"...hunting in PvE can be a pretty slow affair with few mobs in the world, and a sizable enough grind to get your skills up. "
This either says to me, 1) you never left the starter city, or 2) you never got into a group of 3-4 other people. There are a lot of monsters in this game, and most are killable with a small group.
"You'll be fighting the same things for long stretches of time."
Yea, if you're solo. Darkfall is not designed for a solo gamer.
"While I crashed slightly less than I did when Vanguard was first released, I actually felt that even that game had received more polish."
You cannot compare polish to stability.
"there's painfully few quests - although the gameplay is about straight PvP anyway - the interface is horrific, the animations are sub par and not well varied. Combat, as nice as it might sound, even felt pretty clunky."
Quests are fluff as they have no place in a FFA PvP large scale sieging game. Again with the interface, I assume you are bagging on inventory management? It is impossible to have elaborate animations and effects when you have a hundred people running around on your screen. Clunky again. We get it, you favor polish over functionality.
I find it amazing that you don't mention sieging at all. Did you ever enter a player city or hamlet? Did you join a clan? You more or less preface your review by stating that "It focuses on an open-PvP environment, player-controlled territory, sieges, and guild/alliance wars" but then fail to mention your experience with any of it.
You say that you "had a chance to play on the European server both before and after the last major patch" but then mention nothing of the new content or your experince with it.
Were you a red or a blue? Did you do any mounted combat? Did you do any crafting? Did you get on a boat? Did you particiapte in a siege? A raid? What did you think about archery? Magic use? Did you feel anyhtign was overpowered? Did you get ganked? Did you gank? Did you witness cheaters? Did you see macroers? Did you feel you had to macro? What do you think of bloodwalls? Did you like the chat interface? Do you like the improvements they have been making to the game? What about transfers? You're playing on EU, would you wait to transfer or buy a new client? What do you feel about the lack of a skill cap?
Honestly, what kind of review was this? You didn't seem to do any more than the 1st Eurogamer fool did, but you gave it a score 3 times better. There are numerous issues, good and bad, with this game that need to be discussed. This review does nothing but regurgitate the same crap that anyone with WoW background can relate to. Can anyone in the industry competently review a game anymore?
Well what do you expect from this site? You should know by now not to expect much. It's still a good time killer now and then... to check out the forums.
"As much as I wanted to like Darkfall when I had first heard about it, I simply have to be honest: it isn't a polished game. In fact, I just couldn't find it playable in any enjoyable way." --Direct Quote from the Review.
Someone explain to me how that is a 6 out of 10. I expected a fair and honest review, this definitely isn't one, and Jon Wood and the fellows here need to reassess their scoring.
Total copout, anti -Eurogamer review. Boo.
One random note.
The "description" (in this case 6 / Acceptable) word we use with each review is probably outdated. As far as our editorial guidelines go, we look at this kind of like school (9 is an A, 7 is a C, etc.).
Thus, to us, 6 is a D. Acceptable is not really the correct descriptor word (we're working on that).
Then grade the games on a letter scale.
The problem is Dana, this crap is going to get picked up by Metacritic, etc, which use a 1-10 scoring metric, of which, 6 is acceptable.
It's your guys site, do what you want, but I'm telling you right now, at first appearence, the use of a 6 gives the game way more credit than it is due. The review itself reflects a D-, barely passable. Your review score should be the same.
Then grade the games on a letter scale.
The problem is Dana, this crap is going to get picked up by Metacritic, etc, which use a 1-10 scoring metric, of which, 6 is acceptable.
It's your guys site, do what you want, but I'm telling you right now, at first appearence, the use of a 6 gives the game way more credit than it is due. The review itself reflects a D-, barely passable. Your review score should be the same.
And a six is a D, so we basically agree. We're debating revised descriptions now. The problem with using letter grades is that the entire world doesn't actually use them, so while Americans might get it right off, some others would not.
I am just letting you guys know the guidelines we gave the writer. I honestly hadn't realized it still said acceptable (that part is auto generated when we enter the score) until the review went live.
The review was generous to say the least. I aslo found the UI to be more than clumsey. My favorite game was UO before all the changes and I was hoping that Darkfall could provide something close to that experience. While Darkfall has more features it on the whole can't even compare to uo 8 years ago. Now that is sad.
The most important fact missed by the review, this game is a hackers, exploiters delight and Aventurine has done very little to control it.
So if you like to play a fairly cheat free game like I do, this one is not it. And don't try to tell me they don't exist, a friend of mine has a powerful mage built by exploits on the European server and is now well on his way to doing the same on the NA one. So the playing field is not level at all.
AFAIK D is a 5
AFAIK D is a 5
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
"Darkfall is a game that seems to fall short on just about everything it has"
Yet it gets a 6.0? To me, a game that falls short in everything it has is an utter failure as a game. And potential doesn't count. An mmo has to have it at launch, not the potential of being good 1-2 years after launch. I'm long gone after that. Either the score is too high or this is a poor choice of words to sum up the game. Either way, I won't be playing it.
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
I agree... Like others have said the review seems pretty accurate when you read it, I just don't know how that translates to a 6. Reading the review gives the impression that the game has some good ideas, mostly executed poorly... but somehow it's above average. My question is, how bad does a game have to be to get a 5 or below from you guys. What is the point of a rating scale that really only goes from 5 to 10? Does a game automatically get 5 points just for firing up and running?
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
Same question
This is quite clever from MMORPG, they mention the pros (and mostly) cons giving a good general impression of what you can expect for your 50$'s but then give a middle of the road score so they don't alienate either spectrum of the community or goad the wrath of another bad review nerd rage from Tasos the almighty.
Its what they have been doing with the moderation of the Darkfall forum section for a long time and I think its worked out quite well for all concerned, Aventurine and their lackeys excluded of course.
When a reviewer mentions "good concepts and non standard design" as 2 of the 3 pros you know their really struggling.
Been following this thread, and had to create an account here to just express what I've played of Darkfall Online
Aventurine have expressed this and so has this review, the game is for a niche market. people who want to have open world pvp with full loot tables and it does delivery well on this. I've been playing Darkfall online since release and can see why so many people think this is a poor game but many people are basing the entire point of their argument on the graphics.
Darkfall's graphics are good, the're not awesome and not bad they are simply "ok". and I have learned a long time ago that if the graphics are good enough it isn't a hinderance to the gameplay, and graphics have to be pretty bad for me not to enjoy a game.
Gameplay is all that matters to me and Darkfall delivers, gives me the option to do what I want and have a good time.
I cant also help but notice this was a very brief review, some key points were missed out on what Darkfall offers.
- Naval Combat
- Tank combat
- Mounted Combat
- Trading
- Villages, player housing, siege warfare, large scale combat etc...
You simply cant review darkfall without spending alot of time in the game, and I'm talking a month or two. also joining an active guild is essential.
IMO Darkfall reviewers need to get involved with an allianced guild to experience the more assets as stated above darkfall has to offer. as if you are reviewing the game on it's early points you may be disillusioned.
DF is the first sandbox that seems to have certain requirements before you can start having fun. Interesting way to go about it. So to say that the reviewer must do this and that first sort of proves its not really all that sandbox otherwise they could do what they want and have fun with it.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
6 is the score mmorpg gave to the game...
If all mmorpg users would agree with the score i would cut my balls out and eat them ..full of joy
DF is the first sandbox that seems to have certain requirements before you can start having fun. Interesting way to go about it. So to say that the reviewer must do this and that first sort of proves its not really all that sandbox otherwise they could do what they want and have fun with it.
It doesn't have any requirements. If you have not played it you wont really know.
You can build a ship if you want to but it's going to take an awful lot of time on your own, their is only a certain amount of things you can do on your own before you'll need the help of other people. as with any mmo.
put simply if you want to experience the high end things in Darkfall, you dont need to grind your skills up. You just need to join an active guild within an alliance which already has access to most high end things.
Any mmo you cant do what you want, but you can do more with other people. Kind of defeats the object of an MMO if you're not grouping up.
Not suprise by the 6 coming from this site. Their review is always biased. Game sucks and they give it a 6. I cant wait for real reviewer (like Xplay) to review this game. At least they are not afraid to say it SUCKS when it does. I'm sure Darkfall review on Xplay will get a maximum of 2 out 5.
6/10 is not ACCEPTABLE. 6/10 is PASSABLE.
In my book it should be something like :
10/10 Perfect
9/10 Awesome
8/10 Very Good
7/10 Good
6/10 Passable
5/10 Bad
4/10 Very Bad
3/10 Dont Bother
2/10 Horrible
1/10 How come this was release ?
For me this Darkfall deserves a 4/10.
Yes this was all what I was thinking as I read the review. I don't see how you can play the game for 3 weeks and not have experienced the core of the game which is world PVP and territorial conquest. What about mounted combat? What about sieges? What about boats? What about all the new expansion content?
If I were reviewing EVE and didn't experience 0.0 fleet combat or low-sec piracy or any of its other sandbox gameplay I would rate it a 2/10 because it too has almost no quests, awkward controls, initimidating interface, and vast areas of seemingly empty space and copy'n'paste stations and interiors. But that wouldn't be really reviewing EVE the game, would it?
So it is with this review of Darkfall. It's as bad as those reviews of A.o.C. were where they only played up to the end of Tortage and gave it a great score. If you aren't going to experience the core features of the game you're reviewing I just don't see what the point of reviewing is.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
We gave it a six because that's what the reviewer scored it as. The guy who wrote the words applied the score.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
The review seems good, but it does make it sound far worse than a six. Havent played it myself (and wont be the more I hear) but it does seem weird that you read the review and would expect that to be a four or five (maybe). I guess there is some compromise going on here
[quote]Originally posted by MortalStrike
[quote]Originally posted by panchoe
Exactly my sentiments, Eve, Darkfall, Mortal online etc are very in depth games and some of the redeeming features are far into the game. They are easily accessible through alliances if you join one after getting used to the combat etc.
Hey everyone - This debate has gotten me thinking. Honestly, I think our score matches our text, at least as far as our guidelines go, but I also see how they fail to sync up at a glance to some people.
So, I've put out a call for ideas and feedback. Please keep the discussion limited to the topic of review scores and not argue about this particular one ;)
See this blog post.
im not really sure what to say.
i dont think the review went into the scales of combat enough, i dont think a games review should omit the community, or the developers who support the game.
i feel like it didnt bother to hit the high end features, or the low end features, yet stayed middle ground going "the idea is good, the execution, not so much." for most of the review.
After reading what Dana wrote as what their scores mean... i get it.
however metacritics and other sites that review using a 10 point system..... dont require you to be the worst game in existance to fall into a 4. MMorpg seems to be.
i dunno, i felt the words were fair, but the score didnt reflect the words.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
I rate this very well written review 2/10
Nah, that was silly. A six or five for DF sounds about right. Apparently there ARE people in there having a good time yet it has many flaws and subpar aspects it seems. And a 6 isn't ALL too generous either, and especially not for a subscription based game.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
Agreed.
I just sent your post around as part of our discussion on this. Liking your idea. Cannot say for sure if it is practical/will work for a thousand reasons, but I do appreciate some well thought out feedback when I see it.
Sean clearly approached this review with a genuine attempt to be fair and with no agenda. Of course, any person reviewing any game can only be objective to some extent, afterall, how they personally "feel" is valid and always part of the review.
While it is certainly not necessary for one to have experience playing Ultima Online Pre-Trammel, or Darktide in AC1, to enjoy DFO, it is very clear that Sean never played either. Things that bother him about DFO are aspects of the game many of us not only enjoy, but have a deeper understanding of why they exist and therefore less concern over the result; for example Sean really dislikes losing control over his character while looting, taking one item at a time.
Sean talks about graphics and compliments World Building, but fails to provide his system specs. I don't know about you, but I fail to understand how any person can comment on graphics and not state what video card, resolution and monitor is as reference.
Sean says "how you interact with the environment feels ""STRANGE"".." That's true, but only to the extent you understand how to do it. /baffled
He tells Casual Gamers to "Avoid DFO like the Plague". I don't know if this is just Sean, or trauma from having played from the start on EU. On the NA server we have very casual gamers in our guild and we take them hunting and on PvP raids, and they have just as much fun as any one else and definately contribute.
Sean appears to be the typical MMO gamer in many respects, so to that extent the review probably has meaning and mirrors what some would experience. Unfortunately on so many levels, DFO is just not for Sean in the areas that he finds "strange", and he draws conclusions that are extreme and flat out wrong.
After all the posts, debates and reviews it is quite obvious that DFO is one of those games you simply have to try yourself to know if it's for you. For some it sucks, and for others like myself, it's the best game I've played since UO. I've met people in game and on the boards who absolutely love DFO and find the graphics awesome, and expected the reverse.
Sean makes some very good points and constructive criticism. I can only hope those reading it understand this is merely one persons opinion, and conclusions are projections based upon his personal experience alone. I can't relate to Sean's review, as my experience is quite different and far more favorable.
-CC
FIX THE REVIEW SYSTEM
This is a complaint against the current reviewing system.
I think a 6 is fair from a PvP-MMO player's perspective - especially as this game is breaking new ground and is reviewed from the blinkered perspective of the level/themepark MMO market. Please note that I am not saying the reviewer is blinkered but that the system of grading is. He has to compare it to games such as WoW because that is how the system works.
There is definitely a fundamental flaw in game reviewing. I hate WoW because it has levels but it gets a 9 or whatever. As someone that wants to play an MMO I would think "ok great" that is a good score. However, the score is for a type of genre, or sub-genre, which is different from a game such as Darkfall. Yes, Darkfall and MMO are not in the same genre. MMO's are far to diverse to all lump into one group. At the very least a numerical score should come with a lot more specific details such as whether it is level based, FPS, quest driven, size of developer etc. Say 9L would be WoW's score - L donating its very specific sub-genre and Darkfall would get a 7.5F or something. People can then evaluate the number relative to the genre and the base quality available. Did you love Shadowbane more than other level based MMOs? Well Shadowbane got a 6F (for arguments sake as I don't know) and Darkfall gets a 7.5F. That is a lot more helpful. You know that this is an improvement for your chosen sub-genre.
Think about it. What other semi-sandboxish, FFA-PvP, conquest MMO are out there? Not many and none of AA quality. So Darkfall is practically the leader it its field regardless of its faults. How can you compare WoW polish and newb-friendliness with Darkfall? You can't because Darkfall is breaking new ground with a limited budget. Obviously polish and other finishing touches will go astray as they try to iron out the kinks in a revolutionary game. Sure there are complaints about customer service etc. Fine, but this whole booha about Darkfall and "misleading" reviews is because we are trying to grade apples in the matured meat category.
Level and FPS MMO proponents get in each others face so viciously because they hate each others sub-genres. Many WoW-lovers would not like Darkfall even if the game was smooth, had outstanding graphics, good CS etc. They would never countenance such a game getting any score remotely close to their beloved MMO, and vice verca.
I played all the way from beta up to a month ago which is much much longer than I played WoW. That lasted maybe 2 weeks before I went "wft? levels are dumb.". That does not mean WoW's score is not deserved - but that the score does not give enough information. Darkfall is innovative and deserves credit for that. Does it fail to deliver on things, sure, but needs to be in perspective that this is a sub-genre that is beginning with very few previous tried-and-tested systems and design.
The reason I am not personally going back is because there is not enough sandbox elements to the game. To heavily PvP-orientated for my taste - but I only realised that now. That is my personal choice and not Darkfall's fault. So please put sandbox/PvP in a different category.
FIX THE REVIEW SYSTEM!
If you want a real honest review, have 3 people review it and post their compiled reviews in one article.
Try to select someone for each slot who encompasses one group of mmo player.
The people who are even remotely interested in Darkfall do not care what someone who plays WOW thinks of the game. They want to hear from someone who loved UO and Shadowbane.
Bums on seats !!!! One must think of 'bums on seats' !!!!!
When the overall player rating is 6.7 one can't afford to go against the public opinion.
I read the review and i overall agree with it,even though you do have a point there if anyone tries to translate the words of the review into numbers they definitely don't translate into a "6".
Pretty bad review imo. How come you don't write a word on naval combat & different siege engines. Did you join any clan & sieged another city? Did you handle a siege engine? Did you gank anyone in their own city? Did you lose a town in a siege? Did you kill an epic monster? Did you navigate a ship? Did you sink an enemy ship? Did you build a house?
You failed to even mention some of these features who are pretty new to the genre & the ones you mentioned you failed to describe. Why didn't you ask AV to help you out with finding a clan giving you some real good gear so you could experience some of the end game & real content. Cuz let's face it, MMO gamers have no life, so there's no such thing as a casual gamer, especially here in these forums. A casual gamer will try & play sometimes a free MMO, because he doesn't want to pay monthly for a game he knows his wife won't let him play. If you base a review of a MMO on only single player content, that is a big fail & it goes against the principle of the genre, against the name itself.
One of these days I'd like to see a review of WoW that doesn't mention quests, epic monsters & the rewards you get from them.
A 6 is a shit score, stop complaining about the rating and just be happy it got such a crap score.
Personally a 6 is fine, the game needs tons of love.
Now rereview WAR and Lotro both are rated way too hi.
ya know, as much as I hate AV for their acam-artist tactics....and as much as I have to admit that DF could have more polish and content....at the same time, I have to say that a 6 is a bit low.
I played the game for quite a few months. I got to see every aspect that the game had to offer. To be honest, if not for the NA server debacle, I'd still be playing.
I never got poor performance, even on a mid-range machine. I never, EVER crashed....not even once.
Never had problems with the inventory.....I looked at it like this: you're carrying a bag. When you loot shit, you're throwing it into that bag. I've never seen a BAG with little slots to put everything neatly in order....it's a fucking BAG.
IMO, people who bitch about things like this are just not used to realism in games.
I dunno....maybe I just "get it" when I'm playing this kind of game, or maybe I just like more challenging games where I'm not playing a glorified game of connect the dots, while supported by all-too-convenient artificial mechanics (such as inventory sorting, safe zones, looting rights, color-coded enemies, and the like). But I understand Darkfall and games like it, and I certainly wouldn't give it a "6" due to intended features that I simply didn't agree with, or write a "review" which leaves out the majority of the game's content.
Bums on seats !!!! One must think of 'bums on seats' !!!!!
When the overall player rating is 6.7 one can't afford to go against the public opinion.
I read the review and i overall agree with it,even though you do have a point there if anyone tries to translate the words of the review into numbers they definitely don't translate into a "6".
Maybe he is not thinkin gof himself, and realize that some people may like it, and the people it caters to will like it, I mean he did put I and not Everyone when he said he could not find it enjoyable way, Maybe its because hes used to having his hand held and quests telling him what to do when and how many times.
Dfo just gives you the tools, you choose from there, It is not a complete sandbox game when it comes to all elements of a MMORPG but it is truly a sandbox. It needs more content/features and a few fixes and I will say it will be up with EVE. Might be a while before a lot of stuff gets added in, they are a indie company afterall.
He did not explore the whole game, but it takes time.
He barely touched the game to be honest, and not understanding the looting process is just Laughable, People dont know that if you want to loot a player corpse it takes some time, not like wow where you can just do a Select all loot button.
But someone who would of player UO SB AC would understand this.
Well said, I don't agree with the "scam tactics", but respect your feelings.
-CC
Whats all this about fanboys, say that we like the game and then be accused of being a fanbot? Is that supposed to be an insult? Because that's what some of you are trying to make it sound like. So many posts in this thread consist of people insulting each other for their opinions. There are barely any constructive posts that talk about the game instead of arguing over whos right and whos wrong.
I even saw a post here that stated that this game should get lower than a 4 because of the bad quests, PVE, and interface. Seriously it's a PVP game and that is the focus in the game. This is ridiculous, reading posts that have no credibility. Sure these are opinions but that's just a wrong statement.
I love all the fanboys coming out and getting angry about the review. (you know who you are)
MMORPG was extremly nice on giving this game a 6. Want to know what the upside to having a North American server is? The fact that it's open season for every gaming site to review this game now. I bet you any amount of money that not one legitimate gaming site will rate this game acceptable.
Great review MMORPG, I have always vauled your reviews and now I know this MMO is not for me.
Man your mom should have been proud of you, when you came back from school with a 60% score on your exam. I guess she says, Great Son, that's ACCEPTABLE.....
your totaly missing the major points of the review and the main reasons WHY the reviewer gave the score he did, my understanding of the review indicates the aspects of the game that damaged the score the MOST was the simple fact is that it is far from finished and lacking alot of polish. He didnt rate it low because of the gemeplay, but because of its current state of development. I think this review was very unbiased and quite fair, you would review DF on emotion and that alone, the reviewer in question put feelings aside and reviewed the game based on FACTS, not feelings. The game is not even close to done, hence it scored lower than youd like, sorry bub.
Man your mom should have been proud of you, when you came back from school with a 60% score on your exam. I guess she says, Great Son, that's ACCEPTABLE.....
See earlier post where I flat out said that the descriptor words under the reviews are outdated and we're changing them ;)
Again? Just throw out the word and call random people fanboys. How mature. I'd rather they give a 4 or 5 because that is what many people think it should be so they don't accuse mmorpg of giving a false score and then throw out more about fanboys and whatnot.
Sorry but this is just another example of a themeparker reviewing a sandbox game.
De ja vous. Once again DF gets a poor review. Once again DF die hards go bonkers and cry all over the place. Once again DF is found to be lame. ... If SO many people and reviewers give DF a poor score there is obviously something wrong with it.
Izure, its either going to be a niche fan or themeparker who reviews so either way "fanbots" or trolls will be angry. And how are we crying? Can you hear us over the internet?
Is it any different then critics getting labeled troll/failtroll/etc? I mean, its easy to be the martyr, but this is a knife that cuts both ways as there seems to be little room for middle ground on this game.
Honestly though, each new review rehashes the same arguments no matter whether you agree with it or not:
Attack the reviewers credibility.
Attack the length of the review.
Attack the time played for the review.
Attack the credability of the site hosting the review.
Now, sprinkle with random insults, references to "themepark/sandbox", call people "carebear/hardcore". Cook for about 5 minutes (if you're lucky), and let drama ensue.
Maybe he is not thinkin gof himself, and realize that some people may like it, and the people it caters to will like it, I mean he did put I and not Everyone when he said he could not find it enjoyable way, Maybe its because hes used to having his hand held and quests telling him what to do when and how many times.
Dfo just gives you the tools, you choose from there, It is not a complete sandbox game when it comes to all elements of a MMORPG but it is truly a sandbox. It needs more content/features and a few fixes and I will say it will be up with EVE. Might be a while before a lot of stuff gets added in, they are a indie company afterall.
Some of the points are accurate but for the most part I see the review as biased with added inexperience to the environment this game presents. When you list "very niche audience" as a con when that was the developers' intent, something is off. Also a few other points like the non-sortable inventory are the way they are for specific reasons that the reviewer obviously isn't keen on.
He cannot be reasoned with so no use in trying. He however knows how to call everyone a child.
Why not just post some text saying that you disagree with his opinion instead of showing a lame picture trying to be humorous
Ya the 2 reviewers = SO MANY people and reviewers, why dont you go fail on your own time k?
Every review besides eurogamer or mmorpg(even some people on mmorpg reviews like it a lot) gave it a good score.
So where you your facts from must be because this site and eurogamer caters to carebear(themepark games)
while other sites like sandbox or judge themepark and sandbox as equal.
So this guy wrote a nice opinion I would of added the actual key elements of this game, and not left out 80% of the game that shines, sorry but this is a failed review.
Was this even post-expansion(big patch)?
This.
Dana had posted at www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/244178/page/6 that the review started pre-patch and continued post.
Izure has been playing for about 4 or 5 months now and so have I. We have both experienced almost every feature in the game. To see people derail Darkfall and talk about the wrong aspects is insulting if you are in my point of view. Especially with the randomly added words "fanbot" "failbot"
Serious question here. How in a supposed sandbox can you talk about the wrong things? Again it would seem in this sandbox you have many options for fun. However the darkfall fans and hell some haters put requirements saying you have to do this and this to have fun and really review it. Based on the fact its a game based around doing anything you want then you cant really put these artificial requirements. Unless people are ready to conceed DF is just a fantasy combat sim with lil else of any actually substance then these points would be proper.
I dont think of this game as a sandbox at all. I don't care what this is labeled as. As long as it's fun to me.
here's a few things that I have done.
- Spy on the largest alliance for the alliance that I am loyal to in order to help bring it down, which worked in the end and Hyperion was dismantled forever. My intel allowed CoTC to know whatever the main guild in Hyperion was doing so we could stop them.
- Join CoTC and fought in large scale battles until we were brought down by various alliances, losing all our territory, our homes
- travel to two subcontinents with my clan to look for a new home
- Leave my clan that was failing and inactive to join a group of end game mages (my best decision ever) and now destroy almost everyone that we fight
"Sadly unrealized potential. This is the sad truth of the matter: Darkfall is a game that is filled with great ideas and good intentions. Darkfall is a game that seems to fall short on just about everything it has, too." - Bulger
This pretty much sums it up, I read the review twice and could say that he did play the game in didn't like it at all.
What broke me on Darkfall, was a fellow blogger U-streaming playing the game live. I didn't like what I saw and that put the dagger in Darkfall for me.
I think Mortal Online is going to be the last nail in Darkfall's coffin.
I'm reading about mortal online often now and when it is finished it will be a great game but right now it's far from completion. I've played on a friends beta account and it isn't that great currently
O ya because in planetside you risk a a lot in Pvp, lol only thing that would come close is EVE, and eve's combat gets boring fast, not saying DFO wont either, but atm its nice and the more I get into it the more fun I have.
Stop moving the goal-post.
You said "Also name one other game that has conquest/pvp/fps in a mmorpg?"
Conquest, PvP, FPS, MMORPG... Those are the criteria you presented. You said nothing about "risk". Based on your criteria, Planetside fits the bill. Changing the criteria after the fact is lame.
DF is not the only MMO to have FFA PvP with risk and some kind of "conquest" system, despite how much some of its fans like to pretend it is.
Well I am a UO veteran, I played from release until the Age of Shadows expansion. I have been looking for a game that offered at least somewhat of a similar experience. Full loot works well in a well designed game, Darkfall is most certainly not well designed.
This review is spot on. Darkfall does not even hold a candle to UO of old and UO was never close to as exploitable as Darkfall is. Personally I would be reluctant to give the game a 5, mainly because the developers come off as a bunch of clueless people fumbling in the dark.
There is absolutely NO excuse for the hodge podge the backpack is and few use the interface to pick things up, it is all macro driven which highly favors the macro users. Replicating that feature of UO is just taking absurdity to the utmost. The UI is worse than he says it is. Worst design I have seen in a MMO.
I don't even have to mention the exploitation factor which Aventurine conveniently ignores.
The problem with this game, it has major issues in the design. Not something that can be easily fixed with an expansion.
Just looking at Aventurines record says the chances of this game ever getting better are slim and none.
Its sad, the internet these days. That people that never have played the game it sucks because they read about it nothing else.
Its just a none ending shitface.
I bought Darkfall last week and I enjoy it like hell. Its a 9/10 for me. I followed the game for years, and listened to all the retards on forums and reviews and thought the game was shit, but its the win.
Guys just dont like the game cause it is challenging.. Its hard for real, not like WoW, having guides for every boss out there, its prety retarded and boring when everything is really easy. This game has a hard learning curve, so 20 hours of gameplay wont cut it if you want to play the game.
Im not a Darkfall fanboy, I just bought the game and from what I've read the most people shitting on the game havnt played it or they dont like that the game is advanced and hard, a normal mob in Darkfall requieres more of a brain than any of the Wotlk raid content has ever done, jeez.
There's proof that Darkfall is much better than before. Before the expansion there seemed to be no new players coming in. Then recently on the forums, I am seeing countless threads pop up asking questions and saying they are new. Others ask whether they should play or not.
I think the review was very well written, and that Darkfall deserves the "D". I would have liked the reviewer to comment on the community and Aventurine. I think those are important to some people, but looking at this thread, judging this game on its community would have been even more detrimental. And we all know that Aventurine isn't the "best" company to run an MMO. If those things were added the score would have been much lower.
The review pretty much matched my experiences in DF, I thought it was very fair although by the reviewers comments it actually deserved a 5/10.
Their failure to mention the massive amount of bot'ing and cheats was a real oversight on their part, though.
As others have noted, the fans of DF will just add yet another "condition" to a review, until they get the numbers they like.
First it was "the reviewer didn't play long enough"
Now it's "the reviewer has to grade it from a "niche" standpoint".
< shrug >
The game is what it is, it got a higher score than it deserved, ya'll ought to be happy.
If he had brought up AV the game would have gotten a 0/10
If he had brought up AV the game would have gotten a 0/10
Sadly, that is probably true.
MMORPG.com only uses a scale of 6-10. Therefore the 6 is extremely below acceptable. In fact, tell me one game since the new review system that has recieved less than a 6. The system as it is where basically only a broken game would fall under a 6 is laughable. How many companies ship a broken game? At least the game will work in some shape or form. By that standard I could release an MMO where everyone are little circles running around a large black surface firing lasers and I'd get a 6 or higher because it isn't broken and it works. Doesn't mean it's fun though.
Games need to be rated on polish. World of Warcraft was polished, Lineage 2 was Polished and Aion will be polished. These 3 games (and Lineage 1 but thats 2d so I'd rather not count it) are the top selling subscription based MMO's in the world. Even a game with the best concepts, if it isn't polished out the door it won't be successful. People will get frustrated over a small bug or a game crash or maybe a day of severe lag.
The review sounds pretty negative.
Was a mark of 6 given so that Sean Bulger doesn't get beat up by the Darkfall fanboys?
the subject of this game is seriously hilarious. i swear the crap never ends with this game, lol, I dont know who is worse, the fanbois or the detractors. at 6/10 frankly AV devs can shut up now that they no longer garnering a 2/10 or a 3/10. you got your 6/10 now shut up and go improve that squaller of a game.
As soon as I saw "Darkfall Review" on the front page I knew this thread was going to be good.
I completely disagree on the avoiding DF is your a casual or solo player. I play solo currently and have a ball, as for the casual part, that all depends on whether you want it all and you want it now, people overlook that MMO's can be played for years, UO being the prime example where players still play after 11yrs!
One or two people start saying why the reviewer didn't like the game that much and then you start calling all of us who play the game rabid fanboys. How about once someone attacks DF all of you are labeled as rabid trolls.
Newsflash: we've been labeled 'trolls" from the very beginning. Keep up with the program if you intend to debate, please.
that would be a change?
Everyone STOP your shit!
Pocahinha has a real proposition we should not ignore.
Seriously, who are we to stand in the way of this mans wish?
Lets all agree for the betterment of this discussion and move on to this guy cutting his balls out and eating them.
Please, lets make this happen. Thanks Pocahinha, cannot wait to hear how it ends.
Wyrd if I was to ever buy DF and play you would be someone I would want to play with. You seem to be a stand up guy and can respect some of the good will you have thrown out there. Javac, Darth, Izure they all deserve the title fanbot. You on the otherhand do not. And on a side note there is nothing rabid about me as I have had all my shots.
/fist in the air. Damn you Sean Bulger. :)
Couldn't he have written something about the sieges he was in & naval combat he was a part of? Not saying a word on those things raises some doubts about any quality game time this guy had. An answer on his part would clearify a lot, not that he gives a shit.
To all the darkfall haters; do you guys think it's too much to ask for a reviewer to write something about his experience with the major features in any game.
Can naval combat be considered a major feature? I know flying boats are cool and all though. But do enough clans have boats to have that. Havent seen to many videos posted by anyone other than afghan.
Well, speaking as somebody who has known Sean for a number of years, I can safely say as long as its not WoW he's reviewing - you can generally trust him...lol
Can naval combat be considered a major feature? I know flying boats are cool and all though. But do enough clans have boats to have that. Havent seen to many videos posted by anyone other than afghan.
You get the point though! And just because there's no vids doesn't mean there's no ships.
Since you're reviewing for MMORPG.com ask AV for a damn ship & navigate it around. Go fire some canons at a city. Build a house or something. Ask AV to show you & have you be part of the village system. Navigate those hovering siege engines & go burn some walls or the house you just built. then review the game
You get the point though! And just because there's no vids doesn't mean there's no ships.
Since you're reviewing for MMORPG.com ask AV for a damn ship & navigate it around. Go fire some canons at a city. Build a house or something. Ask AV to show you & have you be part of the village system. Navigate those hovering siege engines & go burn some walls or the house you just built. then review the game
I see your point but to this point AV has seemed fairly reluctant to do things for reviewers. Also it might unfairly bias the review.
For what it's worth, in case that was aimed at me at all...
There are a select few that I consider "rabid fans", and I think it's pretty well known who they are around here - they're the ones who refuse to acknowledge any flaws with the game, or those behind it. They're the ones who will spin, lie, obfuscate, change their arguments and contradict themselves as often as necessary to defend it from any and all scrutiny or criticism, at all cost.
Not everyone who plays and enjoys the game does that, so no, I don't consider anyone who plays the game a rabid fanboy.
Just wanted to clarify that :)
You get the point though! And just because there's no vids doesn't mean there's no ships.
Since you're reviewing for MMORPG.com ask AV for a damn ship & navigate it around. Go fire some canons at a city. Build a house or something. Ask AV to show you & have you be part of the village system. Navigate those hovering siege engines & go burn some walls or the house you just built. then review the game
What makes you think they even told Tasos and Aventurine that he was there to review the game? I think I'd prefer to have Tasos far away from any reviewer while they're ingame. Especially considering his apparent social instability.
You get the point though! And just because there's no vids doesn't mean there's no ships.
Since you're reviewing for MMORPG.com ask AV for a damn ship & navigate it around. Go fire some canons at a city. Build a house or something. Ask AV to show you & have you be part of the village system. Navigate those hovering siege engines & go burn some walls or the house you just built. then review the game
I see your point but to this point AV has seemed fairly reluctant to do things for reviewers. Also it might unfairly bias the review.
Ask & it shall be given you. I haven't heard from any reviewers, we asked but they didn't help us. There's nothing unfair about, "here, test drive this hovering Mad Max contraption" & let peeps know how you felt about it.
I see your point but to this point AV has seemed fairly reluctant to do things for reviewers. Also it might unfairly bias the review.
Ask & it shall be given you. I haven't heard from any reviewers, we asked but they didn't help us. There's nothing unfair about, "here, test drive this hovering Mad Max contraption" & let peeps know how you felt about it.
The last thing anyone making an impartial review is going to do is tell the population they're a reviewer. Because then the pop is going to go out of there way to give the best impression possible, rather than the truth. Which effectively makes the review pointless.
Rather than focusing on one review, Darkfall is a game that needs many reviews to be taken into consideration. Considering this the ratings can range from 20/100 to 80/100, implying that this is a game highly Dependant on the person playing it. Is it any surprise then that this review says exactly that, that it is for a specific "niche" audience.
Sry Zorban, I don't know you, but that's 1 of the most retarded posts in this thread. What kinda logic is that?
You Darkfall guys sure love the word "retarded". Starting to wonder if that means something.
And if you can't see the logic, then I really don't know what to tell you.
I remember back in the day when you had to get your computer reviews from magazines, most mags used a 100% scale to review the games, personally I always found this better as maybe you would get a 60% game and a 69%, but in the 10 scale MMORPG.com uses and alot of web review sites these days they would both be a 6, so no telling them apart its a really vague system. But really any game that would rate at around 60% was usualy garbage or flawed anyway.
seems fair enough
Great review but failboat+unplayable does not = 6, unless your missing the - key on your keyboard.
$$$ vs real review ??
What is it .....none will ever know
Very disappointed with this review, I find it too simplistic. Maybe they should have got someone with more experience in older MMO's to do it.
"if you are a casual gamer in any way, avoid this like the plague itself" - maybe in your opinion, but I have played this game casually since february and still enjoy it. As long as you don't adopt the ADD generation mindset of "I must be maxxed out straight away" and actually just play the game it is a fun game to play casually, either solo or in group events.
I hope this simple review does not prevent people from trying the game, because a large number of people will enjoy something thats not just another theme park. The best way to rate a game is to work out if you are yawning at 2 am while playing it, in WoW, Aion (first 20 levels anyway) etc, yep theres no adrenalin, in Darkfall you need your gameface on whenever you play, whether its casually or not.
This weekend I could play the Aion beta or play Darkfall, the choice is easy, Darkfall.
I don't want "polish", I want fun, a challenge, a good mix of politics and immersion.
Huh?
A game is a game, it either works well or it doesn't.
Saying that DF is "special" and needs a different type of review is just yet another in the long line of excuses that the game's fans make for the problems of DF.
Honestly, DF ended up nothing special, it's at the best a fair game and most of the reviews show that.
The company running the game did a fair enough job keeping people from playing. A average review from here will not discourage them anymore than already has been.
You Darkfall guys sure love the word "retarded". Starting to wonder if that means something.
And if you can't see the logic, then I really don't know what to tell you.
That Tasos is an anti-social maniac & that reviewers should stay away from him. That is dumb. All it takes is write their devs a nice e-mail, saying who you are, that you're writing a full review, so you're asking for assistance in a couple of little things. If he's an ass & doesn't want to help, then write his reply in your review. I frankly could care less about Tasos or Darkfall. Not playing it atm. But I found the review very odd & incomplete. That doesn't mean I don't agree with some of his points.
Huh?
A game is a game, it either works well or it doesn't.
Saying that DF is "special" and needs a different type of review is just yet another in the long line of excuses that the game's fans make for the problems of DF.
Honestly, DF ended up nothing special, it's at the best a fair game and most of the reviews show that.
If you bothered to read my profile you would find that I never have played Darkfall... where you get the idea that I am a fan I have no idea. I also can not see where I said it was a good game, I merely pointed out that some people would like it and many will not, all of which I based upon a large range of reviews.
If you bothered to read my profile you would find that I never have played Darkfall... where you get the idea that I am a fan I have no idea.
Sorry, I don't read poster's profiles when making a reply, ( actually, there's a poster in the DF forums that does that constantly, and I find it both creepy and borderline stalking, no offense to you of course ) I am replying to the message, not you personally here.
According to wiki; Mental retardation is a generalized disorder, characterized by subaverage cognitive functioning and deficits in two or more adaptive behaviors with onset before the age of 18. I hope this was helpful Zorvan
Apparently you have subaverage cognitive functions if you couldn't understand my comment about Darkfall people constantly using "retarded" in their replies. When i said "I wonder if this means something", I meant it presents a representation of those using the word, not the literal meaning of the word. Seriously, come back when you're capable of understanding the written word.
That Tasos is an anti-social maniac & that reviewers should stay away from him. That is dumb. All it takes is write their devs a nice e-mail, saying who you are, that you're writing a full review, so you're asking for assistance in a couple of little things. If he's an ass & doesn't want to help, then write his reply in your review. I frankly could care less about Tasos or Darkfall. Not playing it atm. But I found the review very odd & incomplete. That doesn't mean I don't agree with some of his points.
For the simple minded, I'll spell it out: telling Tasos or the players that you are a reviewer ends up with the reviewer being presented with "staged" events, not reality.
Apparently you have subaverage cognitive functions if you couldn't understand my comment about Darkfall people constantly using "retarded" in their replies. When i said "I wonder if this means something", I meant it presents a representation of those using the word, not the literal meaning of the word. Seriously, come back when you're capable of understanding the written word.
The correct way would've been: "I wonder if that says something", but since you didn't phrase yourself correctly, I thought to be kind enough & share with you that little piece of information.
That Tasos is an anti-social maniac & that reviewers should stay away from him. That is dumb. All it takes is write their devs a nice e-mail, saying who you are, that you're writing a full review, so you're asking for assistance in a couple of little things. If he's an ass & doesn't want to help, then write his reply in your review. I frankly could care less about Tasos or Darkfall. Not playing it atm. But I found the review very odd & incomplete. That doesn't mean I don't agree with some of his points.
For the simple minded, I'll spell it out: telling Tasos or the players that you are a reviewer ends up with the reviewer being presented with "staged" events, not reality.
Exactly right - you that kind of thing happen all the time in the food world.
Example #1:
A food critic goes to a restaurant and doesn't tell anybody who he is.
He gets served and treated just like any average customer.
He gets a more accurate view of how the average customer will view the food and service.
Example #2
A food critic goes to a restaurant and loudly announces that he's the food critic from such-and-such food magazine. The restaurant owner will fall over himself to ensure that the critic gets the absolute best food and service.
The critic leaves happy and well-fed, but has no idea how the average customer gets treated.
See the difference?
Pretty clear to me Zorvan. A staged cybering would ultimately sway even the most unbiased reviewer.
Think how different this review would be if the reviewer became aware the cybering was fraudulent!?! 0/10 I said it. Think that one over.
Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.
When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.
Using "your" analogy, the critic doesn't order fries and a soda, but he doesn't order the whole menu either. He samples parts and gives his opinion.
He also doesn't order everything on the menu that the restaurant has to offer, which would be more akin to trying all of DFO's "gameplay features". The one meal and the customer service is what the reviewer uses to base the review on.
I thought this was supposed to be a "sandbox." Shouldn't the reviewer play as HE wanted to play, not the way you want him to play. He played the game, he didn't like it. A lot of people don't like it. That's their opinion. They are entitled to such, just as you are entitled to your's.
If the reviewer was given a boat, doesn't that defeat the purpose of actually playing, which is what a review is supposed to be based on. Let's just give him the best gear, make him the leader of the best clan, max all of his skills.....kinda silly, right?
^^This
I would personally give it a 4 but to each his own
This brings up a point in that "barrier to entry" can be a measurable portion of the review. If the reviewer, in 'x' amount of hours, was unable to experience specific features of the game, then that would be indicitive of what another player might be able to expect. Now if 'x' was 2 hours, then that might not be a big deal. If 'x' were 40 hours, people might look and decide that the barrier is too high for them to invest the initial effort.
This is not to say one way or the other about DF, but just something that occured to me as an implied portion of the review.
" When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was"
I'm a Chef and I've been a food critic for a mid-sized city. My point of saying all that is that you have *no* idea what you're talking in regards to how a food critic operates in real life.
My brother in-law is a food critic. He orders a full meal; entree, 1st & 2nd course, dessert. At least 1 of the courses is a chef's special. It doesn't mean he'll eat the whole thing, but he'll definitely try'm. If a restaurant claims to have exquisite lasagna he'll order it.
If Darkfall claims to be mainly a PvP game & takes pride in their siege system, naval or mounted combat, player city building or whatever, how can you review this game without trying & writing about these. Keep in mind, these features are daily routines for darkfall players or something that you'll try at least once. No1 is asking him to try the impossible & to single handedly destroy a city.
Again, I'm not saying that the fries were good & the soda was cold. He's right about that. But he didn't try the lasagna & the ravioli & the tiramisu, which they pride themselves in serving. And then it's the other thing that not everybody likes italian. I, myself, am not feeling it much lately.
Everyone STOP your shit!
Pocahinha has a real proposition we should not ignore.
Seriously, who are we to stand in the way of this mans wish?
Lets all agree for the betterment of this discussion and move on to this guy cutting his balls out and eating them.
Please, lets make this happen. Thanks Pocahinha, cannot wait to hear how it ends.
I dont see the problem here. I liked the review. Its fair. But,
When someone desperately wants everyone to agree and is making a commitment to us. We damn well better get to agreeing for the sake of their sanity.
Suck it up guys! Please, Please, Please, lets do this. Everyone go back, edit your posts to say: I agree.
Damn, reading some of these beginning posts really makes me see why I havent been on here in a while. Sorry guys.
Your brother-in-law is doing it wrong, sorry.
Ordering that much for one person is an immediate tip-off that the customer is a critic ( unless they weight 400 lbs. ) and the staff is trained to contact the manager immediately when that type of an order comes in.
He might as well have yelled at the door "Yoo hooo! I'm a food critic, treat me special".
The best and most honest reviews come from smart food critics that know how to not draw attention to themselves with abnormal behavior. Going back for a second visit or taking a group and trying some of everyone's meal is the usual tactic that a saavy food critic will use.
Just an FYI........
Neways, it doesn't even matter. I'm defending a game I'm not even playing atm. I correct myself. I'm not defending the game. I'm simply saying that this review seems incomplete. Not saying it should be 8/10 or 2/10. I don't care about the result. I wanted to read from this guy that: I was in a siege & it sucked ass, because such & such. I tried some mounted combat & it was stupid, because such & such. I had the misfortune of getting aboard a ship. I started singing: I'm on a boat, I'm on a boat, take a good hard look at the motherF..ing boat, but then we drowned for no reason.
Just wanted him to write about these things & then I think; he knows what he's talking about, cuz he did it. A partial review is unfair to any game & player out there.
And sorry to be hijacking the thread, I know that this isn't the food channel....
You are wrong sir, and this is undisputable. One purpose of a review is to determine a game's playability. If the game sucks as bad as Darkfall, it will not take too long to discover this, and there is no need to play further if the game is not holding the reviewer's interest. If you went into a job interview, and demonstrated you were some kind of jerk off, the interviewer would see no reason to continue the interview and just tell you that they will contact you if they are ineterested later.
In other words, do you like the taste of turds? If you have never tried one, then go and drop a duece. Once you have done that taste it. But just getting a tad on your finger and trying it is not enough. You must eat the entire turd to really get a feel fo the texture, consistency, and taste in order to really give a propper review on it.
FYI I guess if you wanted to be impartial, stand behind someone else when they drop one with a catching device.
Your brother-in-law is doing it wrong, sorry.
Ordering that much for one person is an immediate tip-off that the customer is a critic ( unless they weight 400 lbs. ) and the staff is trained to contact the manager immediately when that type of an order comes in.
He might as well have yelled at the door "Yoo hooo! I'm a food critic, treat me special".
The best and most honest reviews come from smart food critics that know how to not draw attention to themselves with abnormal behavior. Going back for a second visit or taking a group and trying some of everyone's meal is the usual tactic that a saavy food critic will use.
Just an FYI........
He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any.
You are wrong sir, and this is undisputable. One purpose of a review is to determine a game's playability. If the game sucks as bad as Darkfall, it will not take too long to discover this, and there is no need to play further if the game is not holding the reviewer's interest. If you went into a job interview, and demonstrated you were some kind of jerk off, the interviewer would see no reason to continue the interview and just tell you that they will contact you if they are ineterested later.
In other words, do you like the taste of turds? If you have never tried one, then go and drop a duece. Once you have done that taste it. But just getting a tad on your finger and trying it is not enough. You must eat the entire turd to really get a feel fo the texture, consistency, and taste in order to really give a propper review on it.
FYI I guess if you wanted to be impartial, stand behind someone else when they drop one with a catching device.
Wish I hadn't read this post before dinner...NASTY...
"He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any."
Only those 400 pounders that I mentioned.......
He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any.
I'm beginning to wonder if you ever leave your basement. Plenty of people go out and enjoy dinner alone.
Back to topic:
Review was spot on with a "D".....
Go through and read every other MMO review here on MMORPG.COM. Do they cover the stuff you are mentioning?
I'll make it even easier for you as I made a table that shows the score and what MMOs have been reviewed here...
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2983158#2983158
Now after you have read every review (just the first original review... not the re-reviews) come back and tell us the percentage of those reviews that have the sort of stuff you are suggesting being covered for DarkFall.
For example:
In the EvE review does the reviewer give examples of space battles with Capital ships?
In the EQ review does the reviewer give examples of taking down Lady Vox?
In the LoTRO review does the reviwer give examples of the group content in Book 8?
The point is that all MMO first reviews are of the basic content. Later... if the MMO is around in a few years... it may be deserving of a re-review. At that time, the more advanced content is usually given a more thorough covering, as it is assumed the majority of the gaming populace will be experiencing that content then.
Anyway... if your research of all the other reviews does in fact point to me being wrong and you being correct... by all means come back and let me know. I'll check back from time to time in this thread. Good Luck.
The more this imortalis rants about this review the more I am thinking they work for AV or something. Some of this persons responses make no sense what so ever. Like that food critic thing. Weird.
so he is gonna order all 8 entrees on a menu and eat em?
If i buy a game do i need to try ALL the "entrees" before i can review it?
I been playing eve for 8 months, i know i havent experienced everything yet, but i could make a review and tell you i love it.....
I played other games for 5 months, i know also i havent tried everything, but i could make a review and tell you i hate it.
So if i hate it after 5 months...what would POSSIBLY make me think i am going to like it at higher levels/later in the game. If a game cannot attract you within the first few days, then the game is just going to be boring and dull up to the later levels.
I know games which start of awesome but then die off later on *AoC will be my example there*, yet i have never played a game which started off bad and got better at later stages....
And i severely doubt your brother in law is a food critic, i love how people all of a sudden know (or are) critics, programmers, devs, etc at the most opportune moments.
Ummm...he spoke the lingo well enough that I think that he's telling the truth.
And I've got both a Culinary degree and industry experience to base my opinion on...
please i could have saidthe same answer as him, does watching the food network make me an expert too?
and way to nitpick the closing line but not the "entree" of the post lol
please i could have saidthe same answer as him, does watching the food network make me an expert too?
If you watch Alton Brown's show "Good Eats" you could learn a lot about the science and preparation of many foods, I highly recommend his show.
But as far as becoming an "expert", you might specialize in just one food ( chili cooks are famous for this ) and just self learn and practice and actually become an "expert" in that one food.
But that's pretty shallow in my book, I'm glad that I sunk the money and time into school after my initial retirement.
Being a good Chef is a lot harder than people think.
Reviewer reflects my views exactly.
He mentions that it takes an inordinate amount of time to do pretty much anything - like ships/sieges. So even if they are cool (which they are not), they are a hardcore and thus niche feature. Besides, who cares if the boats are cool if the actual combat system which is the bulk of the game is clunky and unpolished?
i said nothing about being a good chef, nor was my post anything about being a good chef......my post was in regards to critiquing and reviewing something
stop making things up
The back and forth with the food critic analogies and all is pretty entertaining...
That said...
Did anyone really expect any other reaction than this?
MMORPG gave the game a less than glowing review.
So, predictably, the DF faithful must now find some angle to nit-pick it apart, finding anything they can to discredit the reviewer and the review. Didn't play it enough, didn't do enough, blah blah blah.. If the guy played 300 hours, did everything from PvE to PvP to sieging to politics, etc and they gave it a bad score, it wouldn't make a difference. Guaranteed someone would say something along the lines of "well they obviously didn't like the game so there was no point in them playing as long as they did, because the reviewer was obviously biased against it".
Guaranteed, and I would wager a month's pay on this, if the review came back with an 8 or better score, those same people would be praising the review as accurate and valid and none of the "issues" they're bringing up would even be given a moment's thought, much less discussion.
There are absolutely *zero* circumstances under which certain people around here would ever accept anything but a mostly positive review of DF. They know it. We know it. I'm sure the mmorpg.com staff know it. This is just more of the same from the usual suspects.
Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful and give you a more complete answer.
But I didn't realize that you're a jerk, so welcome to ignore.
wow...someone missed their bedtime lol
Darkfall is on the way up!!!
lols 2--> 4--> and now a 6 maybe soon this game will truly convince us all of its merits and we will all be playing this obviously 10 game!
Actually, I already went there.
I know how VG was at launch, my point (too subtle I guess) is that there are a few things that people will take as the truth, despite not seeing themselves, and one of those things is that VG was literally unplayable at launch. I know because after doing a Vanguard podcast for a year I heard those people, over and over, even after VG was chugging along just fine: "You mean you can actually PLAY VG?"
In other words, by saying that (the comment about VG) he could have sparked off more "controversy" than anything else he said.
And there is a difference between "polished" and "working." Vanguard STILL has probably more bugs than most games out there. Doesn't mean it's bad, and doesn't mean that it's unplayable (in fact ,the opposite) that just means that it has more than most.
Beau
That is unfair comparison. VG delivered a game with lots of things inside, from NPCs to quests, all coded and processed on the server side. DF delivers an empty shell with nothing but barren artwork, and lots of lazy codes delegated to client side processing.
Pretty much you are saying, someone delivers a shuttle to the moon and it has issues launching. You build a riding pony out of a broomstick and you feel proud you have the same delay issues launching your riding pony.
That depends on the basis of comparison.
DF falls very short, b/c the developer start with a wishlist of features that simply is not possibly to implement currently. If it falls short, its very acceptable. The real problem with DF lies in some areas, where it actually delivers much less than any current MMO at similar budget level (12million bucks).
If you look at the game alone, yes it is playable, meaning you can log in and the keys you pressed are responded by the game. The goodness begins to wane as you look beyond, from game design (hacks) to gameplay (endless afk macroing) to community (you know it), to producer honesty and integrity (Tasos ftw) to business practice (double triple charging, and so much billing issues it got to the top of the blacklist for credit card companies within a month of launch, you need to be a major mafia to achieve that, given the huge number of scammers gaining the attention of the credit card companies).
If you do look beyond just what you see on the screen, this game falls apart. A game is the total package of enjoyment. If you see your boat hijacked by hackers and flew away, you will not be able just to focus on the stillshots on your PC as you macro afk day on day off, waiting for the months-long skill grinding to get you anywhere.
No mention of sieging? Way to miss the main game feature there bud.
And was this before or after the expansion, because there is no mention of housing
EDIT: to above post, there are problems with darkfall but the hack problem is WAY overblown, please play the game before you talk. Though if you are referring to macro's yeah that's a a big problem, though if you want to keep up and you are a casual player, you will be doing it too.
Ok that is some logic. Conceptually there is no way you can tell how far the hacking goes. Good hackers leave little trace. Same for thieves. They leave so little trace the victims were seldom aware of it. What a normal victim can see are usually the tip of the iceberg.
For the tip of our iceberg, we see flying boats ( and this game is not Eve ), people running faster than mounted, swimmers swim up to catch a boat, ... you name it. If this is the tip of the iceberg, you can tell the immense dimension of the entire iceberg.
For a game as big as LOTRo, EQ, UO, ... (of course WoW, but you guys will die seeing the letter W-o-W), with so many players, so many potential hackers, and after so many years, I have yet to see one flying boat, flying mount, flying boss, flying NPC, flying city ... and yet within a couple months boats are flying in DF. If you do not smell trouble, good for you.
As for play before comment trick, sorry. I do not need to try it out to tell you I have doubts. Nor is it possible to try everything just to feel the hurts.
I never played Darkfall but FWIR here in review it looks like Ultima Online few years ago... skill based, full pvp, items in bags when you left them, etc... And its just good. I never ever played another game so immersive and real like UO. Actually even if its just 6/10 I may give it a chance.
Most players that have played UO and DF say that DF is *nothing* like UO.
1 picture= 1000 words, so basically i'm saving everyone a wall-text
Darkfall is still in early stage of the game, and with small company working on it, it will take a while for everything to be polished well.
However, 1 thing keeps me from playing is that the resource is way too slow.
You can only gather resource, and especially wood and metal ore.
The lost ratio for refining those 2 "critical" materials is way...... way..... too much.
It is almost impossible for solo player to train themselves.
That's 1 thing the game has limited its players.
i agree that inventory is a pain but is the way that should be
take a bag thrown stuff in it and u get the same result
They did try something new, which is so rare these days and it is a game which awards hard work so it has by vote there too.
But the harshness of the death penalty was what put me off, I would be eating my chair if I lost my equipment to some twat who killed me. A loss of xp, downtime, timed reduction in effectivness, all these and more are fine. But losing your best kit is OTT in my view.
Nice article but like a lot of the others I think that the final rating was a bit much.
Just wanted the throw my opinion out there.
What I find interesting is the enthuasium of the discussion for what I consider a sub par game -> 22 pages when I post this.
I feel robbed of my money by a shady company with shady practices. I now know that their little Queue fiasco back in Feb was a ploy and this NA launch / needing to acquire a new license to play the game thing is the same.
The game was marketed as this awesome and complete title and then presented as a PvP zerg fest.
Personally I think the euro gamer article (the Kieron review) was one of the best to date. This review's rating doesn't match up with the content of the review IMO.
Basically, IMO (which is just that) its a bad game with a misleading marketing campaign.
I felt the review was right on target.
The two things I'd add, one positive, one negative are that the game does build upon itself, meaning I think it will get better as political alliances grow and fail, and on the negative I'd add something about the nearly total lack of NPC's in towns.
It's one thing to be short of mobs in the woods, but there's no excuse for empty cities.
Still, I enjoyed the game a lot more than anything I've played in at least 5 years. I think even more than time the trick to enjoying this game is to find a good group of friends to play with.
It just keeps going and going....just let it rest people. DF got the score it deserved. It was not the revolutionary MMORPG that it was touted as. The UI is archaic. The graphics and animation have a lot to be desired. The combat is jerky and clunky. The game is not all that. In a couple of years if AV continues to tweak it and make it better - then maybe MMORPG.com will do a re-review. It's not the end of the world however. Enjoy your game and move on.
So, how was the server response, how was the community and how was customer service? Or does this game not have them?
SSHHHHH......!
j00 can haz cheezburger if j00 donz killz mi forumz pvpz plz
iz only thing Darkfall iz goodz 4
What was the score Dark and light got?
[quote]And not to mention you did not cover the full game at all, and I am not a fanboy, I always post about the negatives of this game(so much I got banned from DFO forums for always posting negatives about the game), But I still love this game and post because I want it to appeal to more of the SHEEP, so me and other wolves can have you for dinner in game.[/quote]
There's part of the problem with the studio.They're doing a "funcom ",i.e. the guys at FC were also locking/deleting overly negative posts at their forums. I'm not even getting into the ridiculous argument they had with Eurogamer ( they completely disregarded the #1 rule when it comes to reaction to negative review : you ignore it ) which became totally ridiculous .
I have read the entire review and think the reviewer in no way had some kind of biased view on how MMO's should be like ( he did point out the PROS of the game ) . He just thinks the game failed to deliver, even on its strong points , how can he possibly give a rave review if he feels that way ? I find this review to be totally respectable - they also didn't rush to post the first review or anything like that ,but waited for a while so the review would be more balanced - and think the score reflects this .
I would have given it a 2 cause the game is just so bland with poor graphics and animations. Why would you want to explore such a empty lifeless world like that?
OK.. 23 pages.. not reading them all.. but heres the deal:
He has a few fair points, but it also seems like he was the wrong type of gamer to review the game. Here's an example:
What did bother me was the inventory screen. It isn't a list of items. It isn't even a grid where you have to fit things into some bag. Instead, it is just a window that holds sprites of inventory items that features no way of sorting through them at all. Items also just appear where ever you drop them, even over other items. This was just irritating, and as someone who insists on a neatly organized bag, I spent way more time than I care to think about sorting through inventory.
This is EXACTLY the way we asked for the inventory. It's a real bag, not a spreadsheet that is sortable at the click of a button. Is it harder? Yes... but it definately adds to the game, just as this same system did to UO.
His points about the interface rung true to me.. as I still find it to be a pain in the rear but then he goes back to things like:
For having been in development for so very long, the game simply felt like an early beta build when I played. While I crashed slightly less than I did when Vanguard was first released, I actually felt that even that game had received more polish.
HUH? The only crash problem I really can remember are when the huge zergs of a few months back (Hyperion.. CC) would all move into an area at the same time causing some to lock up. TBH.. since day 1 I can probably count my crashes on 1.. maybe 2 hands.
Far and away though, the biggest hole in the review is a total neglect of the Political Game (second being city building). To me.. this is an unforgiveable ommision. This is what the game is all about.. PvP with a purpose. Claim your home.. build a city from scratch. Defend it from Sieges where people are trying to destroy your buildings and walls. Create alliances... watch them crumble.
THAT is Darkfall. Not pew-pewing the goblin spawn.
It really seemed to be written by a person who spent the game soloing.. or in a small clan without access to things like cities or even a massive ship to sail around the world...
Oh well.
Because Darkfall is the JR Ewing of the MMO world. It's something that people just love to hate and attracts drama and contraversy.
People like drama and contraversy.
I agree with some parts of the review, the game needs some changes in order to attract more players. Indeed DF is not casual player friendly and i would never recommend it to someone who can't spend 3-4 hours every day playing and -of course- after that leave his character resting at a blood wall in order to get some more resistance points.
If you don't play DF like that you don't stand a chance against other players who have high skills and resistances from macroing. Don;t forget that DF is a PVP game were the "weak" ones have less fun and apart from archery it's not so real skill based as many try to prove it is. Not to mention that magick has begun to remind me of the "glorious" days of Ultima where a couple of mages wearing thick armor (tank mages) were able to wreck havoc to many players without much effort.
However despite of these and other problems that DF has it was not mentioned that it is one of the very few mmorpgs left that can be categorized as massive. And this imo is the strongest feature of this game. If you want to get a feel of how it is to fight along with hundreds of players using many forms of combat (mounted, cannons, on boats etc) and don't care much about other aspects of an mmo there are no other games around like Darkfall.
This game may not be "ALL THAT" for the masses bt, it does appeal to those who live PvP and like it "en masse".
I think the review was fairly good and he pointed out a lot of things that are the high points in the game that most players have been looking for or attracted too. Just from the review it sounded like a true, modern UO in 3D and not one that has been "upgraded or streamlined".
Have I played the game? No.
Will I play the game? No.
Mainly because of the time requirements games like this have to be competative. Gone are the days when I can spend 4-5 horus a day and maybe 24-30 over the weekends. I think that was something the OP was saying as well. I believe if he had reviewed this game earlier in his life it would have received a higher score.
Didn't feel like the score matched the write up.
The way the review read to me I would of expected something around a 4 from the review.
I wouldn't have rated at 6 myself, and I agree with everything the reviewer said about the game.
I AM someone that this game should appeal to, but it just falls short on pretty much everything it does.
Shorter then a 6 for sure.
They give FF11 a 6.5 and this shite game a 6. >.<
Lol a casual themepark player again reviewed this game and review was realy awefull also i think he just watch eurogamer review and just copy some over.
What a terible reviewer and review 2 pages covered MAYBE of half what darkfall has to offer this aint NO REVIEW, man you reviewers dont stop at nothing, try destroy Darkfall HEY:(
TROLL /hater reviewer bah:(
Oh and to most replyers ill bet 95% did not even played Darkfall while they judge game and agree or say it even deserve a lower rate are also haters/trolls like the reviewer.
All of this gnashing of teeth and flailing of egos ... so much has been said for, and against, Darkfall that honestly I am now planning to buy it, just to see what the fuss is all about. And yes, i will use a limited life VISA rather than my main VISA, just in case some of the worse nay-sayers are right :P
The bottom line for me is that Darkfall, for all it's flaws, actually looks interesting. Who cares if 6 is generous, clearly there really is a game to be tried. WoW is plain boring now, and all the more recent WoW wanna-bes are thin, scripted, and ... boring. For less than the price of a meal at a nice restaurant, I'm more than happy to buy DF and see how much of a UO2 (pre-trammel) this really is, bugs, exploits, skill-based, player housing, mounts, boats and all.
And what ever happened to anti-gank squads? Did people forget how to do that since candylands became the MMO norm? The way to stop ganking in FFA PvP MMOs is to get organised, help new players start out in the world, and gank the gankers. It used to be a really nice way to build communities in UO: have we all been so brainwashed into the 'WoWized level to endgame' style where the game begins once you have leveled, rather than the game and community building starting when you first log in?
Actually, you can judge a book by its cover.
There's enough info out there for many players to determine the game isn't for them.
But you need to let go of the hate and go enjoy playing your game.
So your saying that because the reviewer only gave the game a 6/10, he hates it? That makes him a troll?
No, it's comments like yours that pours fuel on the fire, people who use words like "hate" to produce emotive responses.
I played it, i didn't pay for the privaledge, but i have played the game, if i rate it 6/10 does that mean i hate the game, does that make me a troll because i disagree with those who think this game is a 7, 8 or 9/10?
Only idiots pigeonhole others like that, the world is not black-and-white and neither are peoples personal opinions.
Show me when one of you "hardcore", non-themepark morons can present an unbiased, complete, and fair review which gives Darkfall the score it deserves. NOT IN YOUR EYES, but in reality. That day will never come, and you will keep complaining that the reviewer is some themepark carebear noob because he gave the game the score it deserves.
I first got interested in Darkfall something about 8 months before release.
The word before the game released was that this game was going to be much like pre-Trammel Ultima Online save the Combat system which was pretty clear it would be FPS like, not MMO like (UO had a point and Click system, with auto attack but no Tab Select, it required some twitch compared to sticky targets).
One of the issues here is that AV never really did any marketing Campaign, all of its publicity has been word of mouth over the years, and that is the message that the fans waiting for this game let out. AV did not mind because they had justification, they said they did not have the resources for a Marketing Campaign anyways, as they put all of them to the development of the game, plus, well it is nice to sell the "box" to as many people as possible anyways even if these with not continue a subscription past the first month.
I read the FAQ's I read the Forum posts, the Lore, everything, and waited with anticipation, if some of you remember Darkfall had been voted the Most Anticipated game of 2008 by MMORPG.com, the Hype was really high as the Message appealed to many styles of players, come launch many of us realised how wrong that Hype really was.
So launch day came, and a quarter of my guild, including myself were lucky enough to get in to it, and that is when we also realised how little we knew abut the game. nevertheless we gave it a fair chance, we stuck with it for 3 months till we all decided to leave the world of Agon in utter disgust and great disapointment.
Sure the game had the same Chaotic Setting as UO, relatvely safe starting towns and a completelly unsafe Wilderness where everything goes, FFA Full Loss Combat System, something that we were accustomed to from UO, yet even this aspect had its shortcommings.
It also sports the same Inventory and Banking system as UO, no grid to hold your "precious" loot, but most importantly, NO LIMITATIONS (except for weight, which depends on your character's stats, the stronger you are the more you can carry), I always disliked the limited Inventory systems of Game shat followed UO.
Dragging each item in a messed up way in your inventory is really not a problem, you can always take some time and sort it out when your back in a town with a bank, and you can organise your bank with various different bags, one for armor one for weapons one of materials one for reagents etc etc, your pick your choice, no system to dictate to you otherwise or ask you to pay for an expanded bank so it can force you out there grinding quests to get the necessary gold.
On the other hand, all items are useable , and you will use them up in all undertakings, since the game has full Loss mechanics you will also often lose them, and there aren't items that will stay in your Inventory for Months on end until you can get the chance to roll on peice #2 of a 6 part set.
All in all I am simply elaborating on this feature just to show how even a simple feature such as the way the inventory is setup in a game can say much about the rest of the design and how some other systems relate to it. There is a reason why many games have limited inventories and that is not for organisation purposes.
But enough said about that single feature, what imports in the end is how the game plays overall with all its features combined together.
To properly express this an analogy to UO needs to be made. As DFO, is really not UO in the end. In fact it is quite the Opposite.
First things first UO's focus as a game was Adventure, if UO had a and popular PvP emphasis it was because of the players not because of its design, yet that PvP was healthy in nature due to its design. DFO, has no Adventure focus at all. It is strictly focused on PvP, yet the unhealthy kind of PvP, as even the starting towns cannot be safe enough to permit players to lick their wounds or rebuild, unless you are unguilded, and since War declaration between guilds is one sided and emediate, people will declare war on your guild while you are crafting in a town as a way to by pass town security and in order to loot you.
The reviewer qualifies the progression of the Skill system as organic, and up to that degree I will agree, however, there is nothing organic about its implementation, in all actuality the Skill system in DFO is more Kin to a Level based Grind System, as it takes time, much time and effort, for everything, so much time in fact that once you finally master a Combat skill you stick with it and forget about the rest because you really are fed up by that time raising skills.
Which is very different from UO that had was designed for people to custom make their characters and change professions depending on trends and needs or tastes. There is no skill experimentation allowed in DFO, past a certain point it can be a mistake to change weapon focus. In UO you could drop a skill and learn another within a couple of weeks, for those that haven;t had the chance to play UO, maybe SWG (pre-NGE) will be a point of reference since it used the same system as UO.
To me, DFO is as far as the Progression of the character goes, more like EQ than UO in reality, combined with Shadowbane.
And like Shadowbane, it fails in that regard, those that did play Shadowbane must remember how intricate initially the Class system was meant to be, and also how it quickly was dropped, and the leveling enhanced so a person can level to 75 in 3 days, because it simply did not match with the PvP Focus of the game.
The Crafting System of DFO is a whole new issue. Which suffers not from the Long Progression Curve, it was relativelly long in UO to master a profession such as Blacksmith too, but from the fact that one cannot Progress in it unless they are part of a Zerg Guild that has each own town and Mining nodes, and can progress within its safety.
The alignement system of DFO is simply a joke, the game tries to combine a Factional Premise with FFA PvP, 2 thirds of the population are natural enemies to you at the same time as a very soft alignment system, where one can attack freely people of their own faction and take a hit but then turn around go inside a player town and work that alignment up again with their buddies, ready to ambush the next newbie that is trying to progress near a starting town. These are not the UO systems.
Additionally, these are not the UO times. In UO the population was made up of 80% to 85% lawfull players and 15-20% unlawfull players. As most were already used to play within the scope of Ultima Lore, in the 8 or so single player games that preceded UO where their role consisted of playing the avatar in his fight against evil, and quest to help good defeat evil.
In UO 3 out of 10 encounters would be with hostile players that wanted to kill you, and 7 out of 10 would be with players that wanted to befriend you. In spite of the chaotic setting, it worked because of that.
In DFO 9.5 out of 10 encounters is with Hostile players.
And the reason is because DFO has been designed to appeal primarily to that 15-20% of unlawfull players of UO. And while there is nothing wrong with making a niche game, or making a game that appeals to a niche play style. DFO falls short of in its visions due to this.
Why? Because you cannot expect an in game community to flurish from Community Destroyers. Plus,there is nothing in DFO that appeals to Community builders, it lacks the Tools for this, the Chat the Mechanics, the Conquest system, House ownership, Crafting Guild War mechanics etc, all of its systems and mechanics are counter productive towards community building and geared to community destruction.
You cannot go out there and Build a Village or a town, that flourishes and endures like in UO, from the get go, you have to plan Destroying someone else's Town in order to build yours upon its ruins, everyone is a potential enemy, even temporary allies, like a pack of hunrgy wolves that have to compete with eachother during a harsh winter and food shortage.
Even the recent expansion fails in that regard, they pretend that they add housing as people wanted it but the forget to mention which people wanted it that way. It is simply more bones for the wolves to fight over.
As such, DFO is nothing like UO even if its has some features that are similar, because Darkfall is in reality a game about Destruction, and UO was a game about Construction.
Two different schools of thought.
Therefore it should come as no surprise why DFO is being given such poor reviews. I personally give it a 4/10 overall.
And wishing fun to all those that like it, may you play it for many years to come, destroying one another.
I don't care about DF but honestly I wonder how an editor can call this a review.
If he was a troll he wouldn't have mentioned DFs good sides and he did. But you can't find any reviewer that actually play through 100% of a MMOs content. The only way to do that would be using huge fans of the game in question and have them write the review because it takes months to see all content of a MMO.
And if they used huge fans the whole review would be pointless because every single game would get 10/10, you must get someone who can be impartial to write it.
The review said that the game have a lot of potential but still feels like a beta, that is not something just aimed to destroy the game. But Avi shouldn't released the game until it was finnished, we already seen SOE, Mythic and Funcom losing a lot of potential customers because of that. If Avi fixes and polishes up the game the review score will improve in a re-review but you couldn't have expected them to make a 10/10 review in it's current shape, could you?
And writing how much care bear the reviewer is doesn't really help your thing either. Dfs community have some nice players but also some shouting trolls and your moaning looks more like trolling to me than the review. He actually had something to say and tried to explain why he thought as he did. A non troll would ppoint out the things they don't agree with him on in a civil matter, not accuse him of trying to destroy the game.
I think his score makes sense. I can also see how impossibly hard it can be to "Unbiasly" score a "Niche game". Especially if you once fit into the niche and now don't as much. So many factors to play into it. That's just the exterior, then we get into reviewing mechanics, playability, fun factor. Ect. ALL while having to find a in-between of 2 serperate mind sets. Dividing the Niche and the Normal. Honestly, I don't think I could find a proper score for this game if I tried unless I just went out and called out a number on my "Personal preference". Like I said, doing it unbiasly is the real kicker.
Personally, the game would probably geta 4 from me. I can see parts like large scale PVP being fun looking past all the glitches, and clunky sword swinging. But to someone who lives and breathes the great open world +sandbox and freedom and cares about the niche fun they find more than the setbacks, I can see it being up in the 7-9 zone.
good review thx
What campany took as much as risks as AV to deliver a DIFFERENT game at the far opposite of WOW ?
This game is a blast for those who love PVP. If you want adrenaline, give it a try and I'm sure you will stick to this game.
And that is why it receives DIFFERENT scores too.
There is nothing wrong with making a Different game, and this is not punishment for making a different game either.
But the truth is that the game is made for a small portion of the player community nevertheles, as you said, those that Love PvP of this form, and as such, when the majority of people review it that do not Like this form of PvP will score it according to their liking.
It is to be expected.
A game that receives a 10 on 10 would be a game that is liked by all, since all of its features are liked by all, the moment you have someone that does not like the game or a certain feature of the game, points are lost. Normal.
If you like the game fine, may you have fun in it, but do not complain on the scores, since the truth is that DFO is not liked by all.
Review scores are like the "average", you give it 10 and another person gives it 1, the average is 5.5.
Darkfall deserves a 6 and nothing less..
Why? Because it does something different, and in a MMORPG that seems to be unheard of now a days. I played Darkfall for a good 2-3 months and during that time I had more fun playing then I did in 4-5 years of any other game.
The amount of potential in this type of world is completely endless, The problem is the polish like the review said, if this game had a smoother interface, better graphic and audio quality, I guarantee this game could have killed half the competition.
Sometimes me and my friends would just aw at how amazing darkfall was, the design of the world, the view distance, 500 people in a single battle, sometimes even the graphics.. But then we cringe at the sounds that come from our spells and the actual look of the spells, or the look of some of the character animation..
In the end Darkfall was the best MMO I played in a good 4-5 years even though it only lasted a few months, and that's why it deserves at least a 6.
Image World of Warcraft as a faction based game like Darkfall, with no levels, you can make human factions, create a city, defend it, gather wood, gather stone, in a world as big as Darkfall.. that is what Darkfall proved possible.. is that not worth respect?
So at the end of the day, this is a game that is different (or tried to be different) and has lots of potential. All the goodies stops there.
What is actually delivered, the actual game itself, tries to be different, but failed at realising the potential.
To be honest, in order to really enjoy the game, I suggest waiting till the potentials are realised. That I presume is one of the reasons why the fan base drops from 300k to 3k.
As for the suggestion that WoW as a faction based with ... come on, WoW is big enough, with lots of NPCs and people to interact with. DF has close to no NPC and 3k players mostly afk macroing. Why must we imagine WoW when playing DF? Why not just play WoW and imagine DF. At least we have the game to play, not to afk macro and daydream about a better than WoW game.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
First about the sub numbers and player base. DF is a different beast when it comes to sub. You actually need ppl to play in order that there is a game in DF. Lets imagine, say 300k sub and only 5 person online. This will give AV enuf money, but no gameplay. DF need both sub and people online. It is likely that they still have 10k or so sub (which is pathetic already and bad for a developer with $12million to repay, plus interest), it is very likely that only 3k are online at any time and only 300 are actively moving, while the rest are afk macroing. This is the bane of this game. Not enough sub, no pve, everyone has to afk macro, and so no one around to pvp. So the true pvpers unsub, leaving behind the afk macroers. The cycle repeats, even less sub, most pvpers gone, the rest online are afk macroers. This may explain why the remaining fans are so active patrolling the boards, they are the afk macroers, who have nothing to do even ingame.
Second about the free trial, its like ad. You can bring people in with ads, but you need a way to retain them after the trial. Look at the paragraph above. What is the point of spending valuable money on free trial, if, at the end of the day, all free trials leave, spreading the word that DF is poison.
Key to DF now is retention. The game design, the actual game delivered, and the rabid fan base, all contributed to near zero retention rate. If they cannot fix it, all they have left in the sub base are repulsive players, with no one willing to go near them.
This is why Darkfall is a massive FAIL 3/10 or 1/5 in my opinion.
When you have to work your butt off and invest 1-2 months in a game before you can have fun- the game SUCKS.
When you have to join a guild to have fun or to even play the game to have a chance of winning- the game SUCKS.
When you can't jump right in and within 1 hour be PLAYING the REAL game- the game sucks and needs improvement.
MMO's could learn a lot from the consoles ability to pop a disc in, and immediately play the FULL, REAL, game- and thus have fun. Some people may have fun in those months it takes to get to the REAL game of an MMO- but most do not. Most want to play the fun part right away, because that's why they play games- to have fun, not work hard.
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This isn't just Darkfall though, this is a lot of MMO's- ESPECIALLY PvP MMO's.
Several things plague MMO's for me as a long-time MMO and video gamer.
When levels 1-10 are boring because they're trying to teach new gamers how to play- the game sucks, even if it's fun.
When it's not about skill, but about gear, twinking, or larger pops being major power players- the game sucks, for those with skill.
The older I get, the more I realize I have less and less time to WASTE spending 4 hours to play a game for 20 minutes. Grouping alone takes too long, let alone waiting for everyone to come back from afk, move on to the next objective, etc.
MMO's need to learn
In every game genre, I'm a good gamer, ranging from 6/10 to 10/10 skill level. I'm tired of being a gamer who can beat most players, but losing 50% of the time because I lack twink enchanted gear, uber gear, or i'm fighting 4v2 or 8v3 in games that that ONE extra character can and will equate to a MASSIVE amount of power (especially if they're a healer, and you aren't.)
Fortunately, I feel MMO's are beginning to balance out gear, nerf twinks, and make skill > numbers- BUT MMO's still fail for other reasons (like being a crappy copy of WoW. Don't copy something that good... because you can't beat it.)
UNFORTUNATELY- darkfall is NOT one of those games. The developers continue to "expand" the game by widening the power difference between the have and the have nots. Newbie weapons nerfed while epic weapons strengthened. Naked players (new/poor/unskilled) stand NO chance against an equipped player (rich, skilled, and mounted) or guilded players (10 vs 1-3, no chance since the 3 prob dont have mounts and the 10 almost definitely will).
I played Darkfall for 1 month, 8-12 hours a day. I had nothing else to do, and wanting to give it a chance- hoping it would get better as I skilled up and gained in wealth. NOPE!
Darkfall favors gear over player skill. Numbers over player skill. Twinks (24/7 macro character skills) over player skill.
The only thing a good player can do against a large group or geared group is run away... UNLESS they have a mount or arrows. Then you have a 100% failure rate, even if the town is right next to you.
Lol, you're comparing Darkfall to Lineage 2, even in terms of score? LOL.
Darkfall is shit.
/neednotsaymorewhathasbeenstatedtoomanytimesabouthisshitpieceofgreekcrap
6 is too high a score for darkfall.
more like a 2 or a 3.
Don't worry, your dear little game is not going to attract any serious number of real players, carebear or not. If all you want is to own the game and the digital landscape you got it. Just stay online and pvp whoever few left inside. Good to hear you feel great fighting each other in a big empty server.
As for the constant need to compare DF to other games in attempt to find some face saving, I would just ask, why bother. If you like the game you can play it even if no one else does. L2 has a huge following and has been a cash cow for NC Soft, enough for them to send some stupid guy to the space. AV, it would be lucky if they can pay their rent, they are going to default on the $12 million loan plus interest. Great way to show how successful AV by comparing DF to L2.
Does AV deserve credit, your view my view. Trying to tell us that AV tried something different is one thing, finishing the sentence by saying it cost its investors $12 million + 8 years and ended up with a product only a few thousand feels interested is another story. Hack if you give me $12 million I can try something very different. Everybody can, if they have $12 million to squander.
Being different, trying to be different is one thing, getting it to work at acceptable cost is another is another thing. Where do you think is the appropriate focus, appropriate way to judge. YVMV.
Most of the review was spot on except for the comment on sparsity of wildlife in RL(real-life)woods. I don't know what woods he considered a forest, but a group of trees in a city park doesn't count. Any real forest you go into today will be easily full of life from squirrels to wolves, bears, etc. Especially if you go further back in history before cities and towns, wildlife was even more abundant and overflowing, not to mention extremely dangerous. That being said, AV's view on making DF scarce on wildlife was idiotic at best in such a primal environment.
Oh, one other thing, just having a 1st person perspective does not make a game automaticly "immersive", lol. Saying you felt immersed only because the way it looked built also proves nothing. He really needs to expand on reasons for his opinion more. Like others have said, giving DF a 6 was beyond being nice.
Honestly I think the game wasn't given a high enough score. The game is the most fun I've had with a MMO in a long time.
an 8 or even 9 out of 10 is a more accurate score.
I sense the impression that he wanted to give it a lower score, but didnt want to join on the band wagon.
Notice how often he says "Personally I like this...." which means to say... "everyone else doesnt seem to like this.."
And I quote...
"I simply have to be honest: it isn't a polished game. In fact, I just couldn't find it playable in any enjoyable way"
Which means to me, 0 / 10
if they get rid of the FPS bullshit, maybe.
I give the game credit for trying to make a skill game. But games have done this before without making it so unforgiving. GW was a skill based game and its awesome! (just lacks content) I say this game is a DARKFAIL!
The game is a pile of junk in almost every way possible.
I wouldn't even play it for free.
The fact that they try to charge $15+ for what basically comes down to
a featureless contentless outdated poorly produced FPS that is barely in
Beta stages is borderline criminal.
Not to mention the fact that they had to dupe the foolish into buying
the same client twice probably to try and make any kind of money
before the ship sinks which is going to happen real soon.
This thing has been the biggest failure of a MMO ever. It was supposed
to be bread from the Gods.
You could literally go play free games that are much higher quality.
I have not seen a single reference to old school Ultima Online pre-T2A. Nearly all of his criticisms are a throw back to UO. The only thing new is the fps element.
Trying to judge this based on EQ/WoW criteria misses the point entirely.
word.
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I played DF in beta and I bought BF about 2 months ago and played maybe a week. I want to love the game but I couldn't find any incentive to log back on : /
My Personal Darkfall Review, where I've played for dozens of hours RECENTLY and still play. I recently posted this on DarkFalls official forum and was encouraged by clan mates and friends to post it here.
Now first of all, I wouldn't be here saying ANYTHING if it wasn't for the server being down for the expansion (Otherwise I'd be playing, duh)
Me:
Before I start I want to say that I'm 23 year old Canadian, I've been playing video games since the original Nintendo was in front of me when I was 3 years old. I've played every game genre out there. I started playing on computers when I was 7 and I continue to use both (Haven't touched my console for over a week now... I bought DarkFall)
My Equipment:
Intel i7 3.07 Ghz
Duel Nvidia Geforce GTX 275's
6GB Ram
300 GB Raptor Drive
Good Motherboard (Forget specs lol)
Good Case
I averagely run this game at 200 FPS and 80 ping on the NA server. I've seen 380 Frames and as low as 62 ping
My Experiance:
I've played Eve, UO, WoW and tried many others that tried to make it in the MMO market and failed.
I even heard about DarkFall years before its released and watched it carefully and unlike most never doubted the fact that the game was being made... I researched the company a little but I was still a little worried about if it would survive to launch. Obviously that worry was laid to rest for me on January 22nd like so many other doubters.
I am not the first guy to run in, I like to gather information.. study and learn... break game mechanics ect. So I watched and read the reports about DarkFall after its initial release and they scared me... so much in fact I threw this game away before I even tried it.
Why and who you ask? It came from so many complaints that I won't bother to remember as I'm sure anyone can find them on review sites and from people who played and left reports on the many different forums that talked about this game and left long ago.
Now I don't know about all of you, but I played many games before.. and I can say from experience that any great game will require a great amount of time to progress to any type of serious level. Usually the longer the better it gets... and I must say that I don't think people are investing the appropriate amount of time playing before judgment.
Before the trolls start saying "TO DO WHAT? GRIND?"
Well yeah, in my case at least I want to craft, and yes I'm aware of what that takes in this game and I am willing to do it. Why? I think DarkFall is the best damn game I've played in long while and I believe it will succeed.
However I'd point out that yes grinding skills takes a LONG time, and yes gathering materials for certain crafting skills does take a LONG time. However they have redone it so that its faster to grind your
Strength and Vitality (Main Attributes a Melee would use) from fighting in melee, hitting others and being hit
Quickness being raised by things like running, walking, sprinting, swimming, ect
Dexterity seems to be raised by a few things I saw best results with my bow.
Intelligence can only be raised through Spell casting (That I noticed)
Wisdom it seems is slowly raised by everything and for best results use fishing and herbing.
I have find alot of people tend to think that gathering and crafting will get your attributes further much faster. (While it does tend to be safer, depends on the other players on a day to day basis) That seems incorrect where yes gathering does increase stats, it is slower than fighting. Also note that you get more skill gain from hitting NPCs instead of players, so if you want to fight. Go fight, don't go mining for 3 days straight and bitch about a grind.
Know what your doing and why, if your trying to become the "Master of Everything" that is possible to do in this game (THANK YOU AVENTURINE FOR NO SKILL CAP, THATS AWESOME). Well I can't save you from yourself and your gonna burn yourself out crying in a closet somewhere about how horrible this game is. I'm gonna try for it, but I plan and hope to play for years to come.
Now before I get on even more people nerves I remind you this game is OBVIOUSLY unpolished, but give Aventurine a break, I don't know about you but I seriously looked into their company long before the game was released, and if you think for a second you could create this game with that amount of people in that amount of time and still create such a great game. Well I'd really go off but its just not polite.
Frankly I'm impressed, and now they got the gears grinding, getting more staff and stepping it up, remember the game can change and they can do it. It hasn't even been released ONE YEAR and we have a 2nd expansion being INSTALLED AS I TYPE. WITHOUT BEING CHARGED THE PRICE OF A NEW GAME. No one can argue the passion and devotion of this company and if you do, well your ignorant and simply stfu and gtfo.
Now this was the biggest thing for me, it truly made me the biggest fan of this game. The sound, I'll talk about the rest after but the sound is amazing. I use some fairly expensive surround sound headsets and I usually listen to music, not in DarkFall. Why? well if you've turned you audio settings down or you blast music you wouldn't know, but the sound is AMAZING.
Some of you who have never listened or have not played are staring at these words and saying to yourself "Your a moron" well listen young grasshopper.
I can hear you walking from a distance, running and mounts from much further. I can hear fighting from a tremendous distance, so far in fact I thought it was crazy. I can tell which direction thanks to my headset. So as I run around I hear you, mining, herbing or logging and I might scope you out and decide if your a juicy target (If your afk you are dead meat) meanwhile while I gather (CAUSE I DON'T AFK) I can hear you approach, hide and decide on what to do. It allows me to find you, evade you and truly pulls me into the game.
Now I'm gonna talk about Combat
The combat system is more than I had Imagined, being chased by goblins... seriously first time I logged in I got my quests and walked to do my first starter quests and I was relaxed and looking at the scenery.... a minute of combat made me realize... I HAVE TO PLAY... When someone told me you block it blocks, you hit it hits, if you can't aim it misses, I thought of Oblivion or games like that in the past.
Well if you are thinking the same, just hit yourself and realize that each game is different and DarkFall is different. I can't say it easily in text, or explain it with words. But lets say that it does indeed involve more player skill.
Its not really easy and my god that is a change from most games. A refreshing change, in this world most of us are too use to the easy way, fast food, delivery for everything, online banking, ect... Many are just to lazy. After some review I find some complaints come from this, cause we just are not use to working for what we get. For those of us who are use to working for what we get, it doesn't bother us and all and in fact is more rewarding in the end.
As anyone who has even started working on it can tell you, Magic is extensive and VERY EXPENSIVE to skill up, depending on the particular spell and type of magic... to be that master mage is going to take a while, but its possible and as any who has done it will tell you, its so worth it.
I've played many FPS games out there, and most nowadays (at least anyone who doesn't live in a cave) can say CoD MW2 is amazing, I played it for 5 days on Xbox live... I bought it a day late (day after release date) and in 5 days I was ranked 50,000th in score worldwide. I do know how to play and I am good. I expected I would be playing that game for a long long time. That is until I played DarkFall... now your thinking, "Why is he talking about that"
Well, its because of archery. It really reminds me of my countless hours shooting people in other games, the arrows move fast, and do good damage. They arc extensively at longer ranges and it does take practice, you have to lead your target and takes more skill & attention than most FPS games I've played. That is simply the best way I could think of to refer archery to those who have not played.
As for combat, you are the largest factor. Know you cant win? HIDE!. Think you got them? Ambush them or just attack...undecided, well DECIDE DAMMIT, and do it fast also friends make the difference, I've see a ridiculously overly done character (Skill and stat wise, although we were lucky he wasn't chaining nukes, which won't be possible after xpac) be killed by 3 really new players... thats awesome
Now to talk more about the game (I can only talk about what I've seen, done or been told and I refuse to use much of what I'm told). Ive only been online a week and alot of that was personal downtime.
Quests and Questing.
I find this part is mostly fine, in this style of gameplay and game world I can't imagine a whole lot of stuff for the quests, I think some larger rewards would be nice, and some would say "WHY?!" and I respond, equipment hardly matters at the beginning, I've been PK'd over a dozen times, with them almost always stripping my corpse down to nothing. I don't care, after only a week I have at least 20 swords and shield in my bank about 5-10 of each gathering tool and 1 of each of my crafting tools. Some sets of good armour and some crap stuff. It just doesn't matter, its true I get mad, but I have hidden from many others and even ran away and managed to escape... I'm so new and I've even killed a player 1 on 1, sure I used a bow and the environment and jumped his ass from behind lol
One of the biggest problems I've seen is safe zones. Now I'm gonna put on some armor cause I'm about to have this forum rip me a new one
..............
Okay I'm ready ... This is a idea, and I've thought it over good or bad you decide. The starter town defenses are effective (As I've watched it put down a noob pker a few times) but I find something missing, not so much in the starter towns but in the capital city.... ITS NOT SAFE...
I'm a Alfar, and I don't know about other capitals but in mine, you are so not safe... I've seen same race PKers IN TOWN killing people who are crafting or grinding. I've had to run and hide... the towers didn't kill them cause they were in the middle of town and out of range, really I don't know how they got into town or how they planned to get out, but that is just ridiculous.
I think some NPC guards would do the trick, mind you they don't need to be crazy, just mediocre skills, and they attack and chase people with negative alignment or enemy races for a short distance... Making them decent but not overpowered would be the trick and making so they don't respawn if killed for like 2 hours or something (so if a large group wants to raid a city its not impossible although I think the tower kinda makes it impossible anyway).
Nonetheless a Guard that could be killed, wouldn't respawn fast and in general would just make the cities a little safer, cause lets be serious. Would any Capital City of any race put up with murders right down town? HELL NO. How can the capital be so unsafe? its stupid in my eyes.
Especially when are turning in the wisdom/title achievement quest and the mats weighs you down so much that you are dead slow and then you gotta carry it in town to the guy, at this point your the Biggest most Juicy steak anyone has ever seen screaming "EAT ME" in front of the largest population of wolves that gathered online in one game in a while.... With no real measure of safety at all.... I mean seriously, its a little rough.
Now I don't want to make the game for "Carebears" and I don't want to make it easy... but a safe zone here or there is not terrible okay? Its not gonna make the game unplayable, it just mean don't go there. Or I'll quote it from wow "DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE" If your that into farming noobs, search outside of town at quest areas k?
Personally as I play the game I sometimes get almost completely paranoid... as I said I use the sound... and I hear something I respond fast always wondering who it is. While pulling me into the game is great (Something that has never been done to me so well as this game has, it makes me feel like this character is me, I'm the one fighting, scared... running through woods in this virtual world) as great as that is... give me a breather guys... I don't want to log out to feel like I can go use the bathroom without wondering if I'll be alive when I get back. The only place I could see becoming the safe zone would be the Capital and really a guard or two roaming the streets INSIDE the starter towns wouldn't be too bad either...
For those who don't understand technology things in a game can be changed... Alot, anyone who has played a single game that was updated regularly online for a few years can tell you that.
This game was made by a very small group (Comparing to almost any other game I can mention really... I don't know everything but I can't recall a game being made by a smaller crew that even compares to the scale of DarkFall) and now they are upgrading, and they will tweak, and change many things... test and add things... and really they can do alot from improving performance to making it better in graphics and changing gameplay so its more realistic or/and better overall gameplay.
They can add places to build stuff and new things to make or build. They can create abilities or skills. Really this game has the most potential I've seen in any game in my life. So if you have not given DarkFall a chance, do so and know what to expect. If you ran away a long time ago, come back its changing... Its not easy, its rough... but its more rewarding and fun than anything I've played before personally.
Now I'm gonna do a small amount of story telling... Why? Cause it gives you a idea of the gameplay and a true reviewer should be giving examples.
To give you a idea, I officially decided to buy the game after reading about "NEW" the clan on NA1 and seeing a cheap discount of the game I jumped at it deciding I've wasted more on 1 stupid night at the bar, why not?
It was worth every penny and more
So I attempted to join new once I joined the game world and it took about 40 mins for my application to be accepted. Now the tale of a noob.
I first explored my surroundings after some quick modification in the visual settings, set for my max resolution and turned off most shadows (except character shadows ) and I started to explore, the NPCs in the town were few and easy to find...
Each town I went to was unique, each location was indeed different and the game world is vast and varied. I heard people complain that its "Barren" HAVE YOU PLAYED? I couldn't imagine travel if there was creatures everywhere... my god I get surprised enough as I explore and many times I've ran for my life... and not succeeded...
Even in the barren areas doesn't mean there no eyes of a PKer watching your dumb ass run as he starts to run toward you on a mount laughing about stomping your ass. I'm happy for the extra room, more area to maneuver and hide not to mention all the tactical choices, shoot arrows from the hills or melee in the forest? spell cast of open plains? if there was stuff everywhere it would be retarded.....
When I went to do my first quest I was relaxed... not a second thought about strategy or anything... It was marked on my mini map and so off I went... I sprinted the distance (cause I read the beginning instructions, which are actually useful btw... cause these controls are something your not use to I guarantee it) and by the time I got to them I was almost out of stam ( I didn't know )
So I run in with my sword and start attacking, 3 swings later I can't swing and going (WTF IS GOIN ON HERE?!) well like a intelligent person I realized real fast the mistake I made... In fact you can't do much of anything without stamina it turns out and it something you should be very aware of, almost more so than you health... almost...
So I run away, break Line of Sight with the goblin and hide... Luckily I did figure out how to rest before I started running around and used it. thinking I was safe, I was surprised to get circled and attacked and I died....
Coming back at town with a rather surprising feeling that I was retarded or that was really hard... (for a starting quest I was shocked). I knew I had made such a bad mistake and decided to go at it a little more seriously, so turned off my music and put on my headset (on top of being awesome it blocks outside noise so I concentrate better) and I began again... this time saving stamina as I approached... and what do I hear? fighting the clashing of a sword and the casting of magic? My god what is this... (I started to realize the greatness of in game sound)
I crouch walk and approach (seriously read the beginning instructions) to see another starting character with the very goblins I died against, and he was having much greater success that I did. so with the goblins distracted I attacked from the back, and with stamina I was no longer handicapped and was able to defeat my targets... The story of how I met my first friend in game and entrance to the game.
The enemy will run when injured or to break distance to shoot arrows or magic, it will chase you... It will kite you... I must say its the first time I've been kited by a creature in a game... seriously it still has alot of health and keeps running away... and I chase and attack... all of a sudden more are on the left AND right and others coming up mid... I am being attacked heavily and I run... it dragged me in.. like a fool I was ambushed
Thats the story of my first PvE experiance.
Now I must mention the Clan NEW. I've seen alot of pkers in DarkFall since I started playing many leave me alone, many don't. Some seem to think NEW is too carebare-ish for this game, well let me tell you sir, its not easy
Especially when you got guys that are much more advanced camping you or griefing for no purpose other than for lulz... sure its DarkFall and I for one don't cry when I die, I feel like ripping off your head to get my stuff back
So while I work on that, go kill other decent players and get some real reward for the kills...
Some people take it too far, and that ruins other newer players experience before they have extra gear, or extra gathering equipment. Some are too new to know to bank VERY OFTEN and never carry more than your willing to lose.
Some even carry their best shit to go gathering, then use all their stamina gathering just to get pk'd after hours of gathering... seriously they need to break it up, deposit it every little bit and not use shit they are not willing to lose.
It sure doesn't help that they don't know, Its worse when you exploit that. I just want to see this game make it as big as I think it can be, and not screwed because the playerbase has so many jerks that we can't keep our new players.
BTW thank you to the many guilds who helped put NEW together and in doing so convinced me to buy the game.
Thanks again to those in those guilds for responding to PKers camping and donating items or gold to the players and to make the town that NEW occupies...
I'm impressed by the idea, more impressed that it was done... and well I'm kinda in awe.... I can't even thank you enough really...
In the end, all I can say is darkfall is worth buying, its obvious it will only get better and its already damn good.... Most things I've heard people complain about can be mostly or completely avoided by
1. Knowing what to do
2. Don't be stupid, Bank Often, Hide and play smart
3. If your on NA join NEW and ask questions, those answers help alot.
4.Get friends ASAP and move in groups, saves your ass many times over.
5.Do what you want, its a game... go enjoy it.
Sir, I wholeheartedly thank you for the time you spent writing this review.
The problem with a skill based system like Darkfall is that when you begin playing your character is the weakest it will ever be. It is the slowest at resting, the worst at fighting, the slowest at running away, will fail the most at gathering and crafting, and so forth. And combine that with the complexity (and non-intuitiveness) of the UI, and the general learning curve (who's idea was it to use command-line-style slash commands for things like adding waypoints to the map!?), and it's a very difficult game to get into.
Having played a couple of weeks semi-casually, I'm finally now noticing faster rest times, being able to sprint for longer periods, and am able to kill slightly harder mobs for slightly better rewards. So I'm finally finding incentive to play. But initially I was incredibly frustrated, and almost stopped all together.
Peoples responses to the review are just humorus.
Darkfall - PvP full loot, risk v reward
all you who try to trash the game, you just like levels, gloss, no risk.
Nearly 5 months on and this game is simply the best PvP MMO available. The population is healthy (at least it is in humanlands on EU1) and there are no other MMOs out that can give you an experience like this game can.
To be honest, I feel sorry anyone that was put off by Darkfall by a few bad experiences and are now missing the game as a consequence. Swallow your pride and give the game a go or you'll regret it in a few years time once the "glory days" are over. Many people consider the 'glory days' to be the beta and WW1/WW2, but there are a lot of highly skilled players currently active and due to the magic balance, many people including myself are having more fun than they've had in a game since UO).
This
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I really did not like this review at all . .. the game has changed a lot since then and it is obvious, being a Darkfall player myself, that he did not spend much time in the world of Agon at all. Doesn't anyone have a review of what it is like to play this game 'very casually' for 6 months?
He says in the end that you should avoid this game like the plague if you are a casual player . .. lol? I am a very casual gamer and this is by far, the most rewarding game that I have played. I love all games, but there is nothing else on the market like this one that will give me a similar rush. I am assuming that he said this because he sucks at FPS and at adapting and had his ass handed to him and thought, "ahh well they must live in their parent's basement and play this stupid game all day . .."
My GF and sister play it FFS and they have no FPS experience and do not care for PVP. They find it funner than other MMORPGs (like Wow and GW is their xp) and only play it casually . .. I think that it is how the PVE is more realistic and interactive than other games being what draws them to this game.
This is truly a game where you can put on your headphones and get absorbed into it without stupid ass glowing exclamation points above quest giver heads and gloating green arrows pointing you the right direction so that you do not try and go the other way and get stuck on some invisible wall . .. that shit is for children and continously reminds me that it is only a game. I think that a RPer would appreciate this game more than many other because of the real life feel that it has and no instances.
I tried it out because it reminded me of the Elder Scrolls series, but it turned out much funner because it is a full loot PVP game that brings you on an emotional roller-coaster.
Who gives a crap about someone's impression of a game if he has played it only a few weeks . .. I want to hear the pros and cons from someone who has actually played it how it was meant to be played. You cannot experience much of anything if you are going to try out the 1$ trial . .. one week is simply not enough to experience the epicness that is Darkfall.
If you are looking for a game that will give you a big rush, followed by either an elated feeling of success or a feeling of getting hit in the stomach, than I think that you should try out this game!
Hmmm. The amount of knee jerk WoW generation hate on Darkfall has convinced me to investigate the trial. Nothing will assure me quicker that the griefing 12 years olds are few and far inbetween in a game than a bunch of OMG THE PVP THE PVP I HATES IT posts.
Thanks, kids.
LOL
Haven't seen any 12 year olds in Darkfall yet . .. its too hard!
: P
Most people seem to be potheads in their 20s or in their 30s and work in IT
Almost every fan of Darkfall has played every major MMORPG out there it seems . .. but you really have to be able to figure out things by yourself quickly and be able to adapt and customize your own controls IMO. If you have any questions or need assitance during your trial, send me a tell in game (sid vicious NA server).
It is not for everyone and almost everyone who ends up loving it doesn't like the first week experience. Good luck!
Okay, signed up and downloaded... annnnnnd I can't patch because the servers are down. This already isn't very promising.
Right now both servers are down for patching. It's a small patch with some fixes so it should be up soon.
AFAIK, patching won't take long and even if the client does need patching the download speeds are pretty fast (1.5mb/sec).
Really? 20 min into patching I'm 25% done and it's failed, waiting to restart.... :/
EDIT: This game patches like old people fuck. I'm not even making any progress, it keeps failing, giving me error #21
Darkfall August expansion is gonna change EVERYTHING