Recently gave SWTOR a try and just can't warm up to it.  The low server pops and other issues have me waiting out my cancelled sub.  So, I'm looking for a new game.

Not a huge fan of TAB targetting, but have come to live with it in MMOs.  Don't really like the lack of futuristic / sci fi content in games like BF3 and COD.

I will say that I LOVED the kinetic effects in SWTOR though.  Tons of knockbacks, pulls and charges to keep things very interesting.  But like I said, not enough.  The game just has so many chronic issues.

So I've been reading up about DF.  Curious how bad the grind is.  I can only play one or two days per week for a couple of hours max.  Will I be frustrated?  I can't stand having a disadvantage in games simply because I don't sit around and grind.

How bad is it in DF?  I gather the skill system is not like EVE in that your skills only increase while you're playing / using them.

How long until a "new" player can take down a vet?  IE., how many skills (and how far up the tree do you have to go) are needed to be a viable PVP force.

Also curious if there are many roots, stuns and any kind of knockbacks in DF.

I would not recommend DF for your situation at all.

The grind it horrible. For solo PvP against other veterans it will take you 6+ months of intense grinding/macroing to get competitive. The game has no skill cap so you'll need to raise archery, magic, and melee along with your base stats. Basically if you only play twice a week for a couple of hours it will take you years to be PvP viable. There is an offline leveling system but it takes Gold to increase the skills so it doesn't really help new players too much as you'll barely have any gold, and even if you get gold it is still very slow.

On top of all this there will most likely be a full character wipe when they release their new game, Darkfall 2.0, sometime in the future. AV hasn't explicitly stated whether or not there will be a character wipe but there avoidance on the topic pretty much confirms that there will be one.

Darkfall is an awesome game with great combat mechanics but it's horrible grind just kills it for a lot of people, I'd suggest you just sit back like everyone else and cross your fingers for Darkfall 2.0.

As for combat I don't remember their being any roots or stuns, in a competitive aim based PvP game those type of skills are overpowered. There are skills that can temporarly blind other players in various ways and with some of the spells you can knock back and even juggle people in the air if your good enough.

The grind is endless and you'd be way, way behind.

The grind is terrible. Most characters are maxxed at this point. They should have made the 4x skill gain weekend permanent. You are probably looking at 6 months to match current players. Unless you buy gold you will be doing some serious grinding to pay for regeants and mediation bills.

You could probably shorten it to 3-4 months if you went destroyer. Either way it's a definite uphill battle. Especially when your opponents can kill you with you being barely able to scratch them.

Originally posted by Atlan99

The grind is terrible. Most characters are maxxed at this point. They should have made the 4x skill gain weekend permanent. You are probably looking at 6 months to match current players. Unless you buy gold you will be doing some serious grinding to pay for regeants and mediation bills.

You could probably shorten it to 3-4 months if you went destroyer. Either way it's a definite uphill battle. Especially when your opponents can kill you with you being barely able to scratch them.

When did they implement a skill cap?

Originally posted by Zekiah

When did they implement a skill cap?

When you go Destroyer it makes you do more damage to staff weilders restricts a ton of the magic schools so you basically become a  mage killer. The magic grind is reduced but it's a harder build to play solo as your limited on what you can use.

i think its more of a nuanced answer than the majority would leave you to believe.

The grind is bad if you look at it from a statistical/character stats point of view, meaning to catchthe top 25% you would have to play for a year at a minimum.

i will also add that I have seen some maxed characters get owned in PvP by someone with half their stats because player skill matters more in this game than in any MMO I have played. (well this was post patch that made early stat gains more influential than later gains ie going from 20-40 vitality gave u a larger base hp boost than going from 80-100).

That being said it is no easy world to survive in. Its full loot pvp (not a big deal imo) and that obviously attracts some griefers. I played the game and loved it and had more of my friends played it i would still be subscribed to this day. It takes a thick skin and at least one friend to even attempt (unless u join a guild right away).

Also while many ppl lament the need to max everything in this game it is not really a need if you have a good guild or group of friends playing.

So I guess my thought is play the free trial with a friend and if you enjoy the gameplay then consider it. The biggest detractor now is that there is no certainty anyones characters will exist in a years time.

Originally posted by Naxtor

Recently gave SWTOR a try and just can't warm up to it.  The low server pops and other issues have me waiting out my cancelled sub.  So, I'm looking for a new game.

Not a huge fan of TAB targetting, but have come to live with it in MMOs.  Don't really like the lack of futuristic / sci fi content in games like BF3 and COD.

I will say that I LOVED the kinetic effects in SWTOR though.  Tons of knockbacks, pulls and charges to keep things very interesting.  But like I said, not enough.  The game just has so many chronic issues.

So I've been reading up about DF.  Curious how bad the grind is.  I can only play one or two days per week for a couple of hours max.  Will I be frustrated?  I can't stand having a disadvantage in games simply because I don't sit around and grind.

How bad is it in DF?  I gather the skill system is not like EVE in that your skills only increase while you're playing / using them.

How long until a "new" player can take down a vet?  IE., how many skills (and how far up the tree do you have to go) are needed to be a viable PVP force.

Also curious if there are many roots, stuns and any kind of knockbacks in DF.

When I played Darkfall the grind was awful.  I spent most of the time in game hitting afk players in the guild city to increase weapon skill.  I would swim and run afk at night and despite doing these things, I wasn't able to pvp at all.  When fighting other players my hits would do zero or imperceptible damage and they could kill me in 1 or 2 hits.  I really like FFA full loot pvp, but not when I can't even hurt my enemies.   The grind is the only reason I quit Darkfall.   

Just thought I would add. If you are going to try Darkfall, do some research first to find a guild. At least with a guild you can get some guidance and if your lucky, access to city amenities.

Originally posted by Atlan99

Just thought I would add. If you are going to try Darkfall, do some research first to find a guild. At least with a guild you can get some guidance and if your lucky, access to city amenities.

Yeah make sure you get in a guild that will show you how to setup all the scipts you are going to need because you will need a ton of them if you want to be any good at pvp.

1. if you leave an MMO for Darkfall because of low population you will be in for an unpleasant experience.

2. this will sound strange but here it goes. If you join DF for PvP the grind will be very hard. If you join for the world, pve etc it will be a much better experience starting out. Ironically as a 'PvE game' Darkfall is actually very good. If you just learn to take your loses when killed by PvP the PvE part of the game is actually remarkable compared to other MMOs.

The grind in darkfall is indeed pretty awful IF you want to be able to compete against the top hardcore veterans (Who have played for more than 3 years) in the game on a 1v1.. Although I would argue that <1-2 months of pretty casual grinding can still make you a pretty usefull addition to teamfight/clan

Im i the only one not grinding in DF?

I just play and have fun, skills slowly builds up over time, nothing to worry about.

But im also just a casual player that just want to have fun with friends/clan.

I really enjoyed lvling my character in Darkfall..

I had around about the same amount of time to play as you and that was before that last skill gain increase. It probally took me 3 months before i could really get stuck into PVP and a few more to get good..

Last nov i believe they inscreased the skill gain even more..

I started a new account up just to test and within a month i was at the same point as my main character was after 3 months..

The main thing with Darkfall is join a good guild and start grouping up and going out with them, Darkfall is no a gam for solo play really and if you go into it knowing your not gonna be able to kill that vet thats been playing for years then you will be ok..

Accept the fact you will die and loose all your gear its ok its not hard to get especially if your in a good guild :)

Also accept the fact that this game does have a time investmant its not somthing you can press a button and be maxed out that just takes the fun out of it..

Start up a trial and just start playing the game, dont play it to max out your character just enjoy your time game and you wont even realise how much of a time sink it can be..

Also there is now offlnie meditation where at the end of the day when you have finished playing you can pop some gold into meditation and it will level over night whiel you are sleeping and working..

Darkfall is not for everyone tho, if your expecting an easy ride and to have your hand held with loads of tutorials then the game is not for you..

Also roll on the american server as there is more population there at the moment..

As for a possible character wipe.. yes this could happen but i dont think they will just wipe everyone to 0 and start again lol all the vets would quit.. at the most they would reset skills to 0 and give you a ton of meditation points to reallocate the skills into the new skill trees for Darkfall 2.0

If you goal is to be max stats and a pvp beast as soon as humanly possible.  THen yes, the grind is unbearable and you also fail at mmorpgs.

If your goal is to have fun, creating your own needs in game (this is a sandbox kiddies...be prepared please) then there isnt a grind.

I found basic gear crafting at the start was a good task to aid in me killing stuff.  I saved all my enchants (skining every single mob i killed).  The enchants ended up being worth a ton, since i had bulk, enough to get my enchants to decent levels and sell the rest, feathering tons of helm i made.

Since i was not into enchanting i knew specifically what enchants sold well and which ones i found usefull.  Now i had a reason to go to far away mob spawns and really farm.

With extra money i was able to buy stuff.

In the end i was crappy at pvp, but enjoyed the game enough to keep playing for years.  I now have a near max character that would dominate in the right hands.  Ill stick to clan seiges, im trash at 1vs1.  The game was fun enough to keep a bad pvpers entertained in a full loot enviroment.  None of it was a grind for me.

The community has a huge role in it.  One of the best mmorpg communities since the old anarchy online community.  Even the trolls are fun...not like most mmorpgs where its all lame kids trying to be funny.

With that said, im waiting to see how 2.0 goes. Once you are maxed out, theres not a whole lot to keep you playing, which is why i see it taking such a long time as a good thing.  If your good at pvp then thats all you really have, other than farming for stuff ect. If 2.0 is as easy as they hint it will be, im not sure ill be interested.  Its the long progression and fun pve that kept me for all that time.

The grind in Darkfall is the worst you have ever encountered in any mmo. Some will say the grind is fine, but those players have most likely macroed none-stop for several months. I gave up maxing my char after 3 years and more than 30000 NPC killed.

If you like to run around like a noob and kill NPCs, the grind is fine. If you like PVP, stay away from this game.

The grind is awful.

If you are a newbie then you don't really realize how bad the grind is for probably a few days because skills actually move when you use them in the begining. You also are not really involved in any real pvp fights so you do not know what skills/spells that your character is missing/needs.

So I could see a total newb being fine for a few days. Then when he figures out what he must do to acutally start using some cool magic or  making nice armor/weapons etc he will probably /wrists.

Even macroing 24/7 cannot overcome this insane grind of a game with the lowest population of any MMO.

An MMO with low playerbase isnt very fun.

Add to that. The dev team ignores fixing bugs, creating content and addressing issues and you have a blackhole of wasted time for a paying subscriber.

It as if AV thinks that their current game is already FREE to Play and don't even attempt to do anything but give its subscribers some text on a blog every 1-2 weeks.

Have you ever put ape bones in a blender?

It's like that

Originally posted by Hotjazz

The grind in Darkfall is the worst you have ever encountered in any mmo. Some will say the grind is fine, but those players have most likely macroed none-stop for several months. I gave up maxing my char after 3 years and more than 30000 NPC killed.

If you like to run around like a noob and kill NPCs, the grind is fine. If you like PVP, stay away from this game.

I maxed out (well im close, enough to be considerd maxed out since the gains are nominal per point) in about 1.5 years of casual game play.

Theres medatation, and if your able to farm about 5k gold a day (very doable aside from a fresh character) you can have your stats maxed out in a few months of casual play.

PvP is great in sieges, however im genetically horrible at FPS games and i suck, and i still had fun.

Like i said, if your goal is to be maxed out fully and dominating in pvp in a month or three forget it.  This game is an epic PVE game masked as a pvp game.  Theres plenty of pvp once you know where to look, joining an alliance guantees it, and theres plenty of non grifing areas near NPC towns to level up stuff.

Most did macro, i think the only thing i did that was cheating was over night swimming a few times, and that was before medataion.

If you enjoy the game, enjoy sandbox pve in a potentially risky enviroment, then its going to be a game you like..if your thinking its going to be some kind of full loot world of warcraft and everythings going to be handed to you in a month or two your going to rage.

If you do join and do choose to rage over the "grind" please do so in chat, its very entertaining to the rest of us.

And yeah, lots of people do macro.  Im the wierdo that didnt macro and also was bad at pvp..yet some how i managed to enjoy the game.

Originally posted by Naxtor

Recently gave SWTOR a try and just can't warm up to it.  The low server pops and other issues have me waiting out my cancelled sub.  So, I'm looking for a new game.

Not a huge fan of TAB targetting, but have come to live with it in MMOs.  Don't really like the lack of futuristic / sci fi content in games like BF3 and COD.

I will say that I LOVED the kinetic effects in SWTOR though.  Tons of knockbacks, pulls and charges to keep things very interesting.  But like I said, not enough.  The game just has so many chronic issues.

So I've been reading up about DF.  Curious how bad the grind is.  I can only play one or two days per week for a couple of hours max.  Will I be frustrated?  I can't stand having a disadvantage in games simply because I don't sit around and grind.

How bad is it in DF?  I gather the skill system is not like EVE in that your skills only increase while you're playing / using them.

How long until a "new" player can take down a vet?  IE., how many skills (and how far up the tree do you have to go) are needed to be a viable PVP force.

Also curious if there are many roots, stuns and any kind of knockbacks in DF.

.............RUNNNN!!! RUNNNN FOREST RUNNN!!!!...............

WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE FUCKING GTFO BEFORE U START DA NERD RAGIN AND DA FOAMIN EVERR WHERE.

*Lol, so yea, Darkfail 1.0 sucks epicly, if u not Vet, then GTFO thats what AV is sayin, if you wana try Darkfall, wait for 2.0, but no big hopes. What? you say u still want a sand box game?

Mortal online, Awakening, wait for that, try it out, Mortal online right now is a little better then Darkfall due to the grind, but both are unique in there own way.

Besides that..............Minecraft.

(And soon, Starforge)

Guild wars 2 is soon too.  Beta weekend june 8th =]