Originally posted by Grahor

Those who want Skyrim mmorpg are sadly mistaken in their desires. There is absolutely nothing in what makes Skyrim great that can be moved to mmorpg model.

 

The main great thing about Skyrim is that every little thing you do sticks. You kill somebody - it does not respawn - the Story is changed - it will not change back. Can't be done in mmorpg setting.

 

Everything else is pretty trivial. Plus, I've learned that I hate snow-filled... things. I have snow behind my windows 4 months a year, if I'll have snow any more around me, it's the direct road to suicide. Gimmi greenery!

have you even played skyrim or just trolling as usual

They are two completely diffrent games.

Elder scrolls is an epic storyline sandbox, theres no full loot as there are no other players.

They share the same mechanics in progression and similair  base combat mechanics is about all they have in common.

I cant get into single player mmorpgs for the simple reason that im hooked on the full loot risk while playing.  I dont mind epic sandbox storylines (story unfolds based on what you do).

Im not sure full loot, ability to attack NPC's that could change others story lines and pvp can work given people could wreck other players storylines ect.  If they could figure out how to merge a DF type game and elder scrolls i would play it.

Darkfall did take a big pop hit when skyrim came out, most are back for the weekend event however. I expect most will eventually bore of the lonely single player enviroment and those who played DF will be back.  Its not that people played skyrim over DF because one game doesn satisfy something, its just that one game is brand spanking new and the other is in limbo while everyone waits for its "upgrade"  perfict time to hop in a single player game for a while if thats your thing.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by bobfish

Whilst the ideal would be FFA PvP and full loot, in a single player game like TES, the AI has rules that it follows and the player is generally always more powerful than those around him/her.

 

In an MMO with FFA PvP and full loot, the players don't have rules, they drop to the lowest basic instinct of kill and grief. They do as they please with no consequence and it drives people away. Human behaviour just destroys any chance of it being the world that idealists want it to be.

WAIT

 

Isnt that the same thing as the Bandits in Skyrim?!

 

its the same thing!! they kill you without question

Bandits in skyrim are mindless blobs of electrons.

Real life PvPers are not mindless, in fact many are highly intelligent and are blobs of electrons, protons, and neutrons.

Two important differences...

1.) Getting killed and "fully looted" in DF or other similar MMos feels not only dirty but like Professor Moriaty did it, absolutly creepy if you ask me, and...

2.) It's the Protons and Neutrons that really hurt.

Having just resubscribed for 4 months after a one year hiatus, I'd say it's because Darkfall is just not that good of a game and Elder Scroll games are overall pretty damn good and very fleshed out games. I know that sounds asinine after saying I just paid for a multiple month sub. But, there just isn't any other game out there (mmo-wise) that satisfies you the way a Darkfall type game does. And no Mortal (Unreal Mod) Online isn't even close.

There are many times I'll be playing and say to myself this just isn't that good of a game. But I'm still able to get fun out of it so it's not horrible and it's not good... if that makes any sense.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

 

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

 

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

 

fill me in somebody

For me personally.

I didnt like darkfalls interface, to say it was terrible would be an insult to terrible games. It was beyond horrible.

I didnt like darkfalls skill system, it was originally designed to simply take an absolutely sickening amount of time and unlike games like eve untill you put in a rather crazy amount of time you couldnt compete. At least in eve after 3 weeks I can fly a frigate capable enough to fit a vet in a frigate.

There were simply so many bugs that were just game breaking and their way of handling it was just poor. I remember at launch there was over 16 hours of downtime with 0 dev interaction to the players. No msg's no updates zilch.

How bout the town claiming bugs where you can wardec yourself and contest your own city to keep the enemy from touching you?

How bout the completely broken economy?

The unfun crafting

The terrible AI that is annoying to fight not fun or challenging

The rampant cheating including teleports, stick to back exploits, run speed hacks, aim bots...etc etc etc etc

Its pretty much the inbred bastard child of skyrim at best.

Originally posted by headen

Having just resubscribed for 4 months after a one year hiatus, I'd say it's because Darkfall is just not that good of a game and Elder Scroll games are overall pretty damn good and very fleshed out games.

This... Darkfall is terrible, period. Elder Scrolls is one of the best game series ever, and yes I hope to god that Bethesda makes an mmo...

I couldn't get past  DF's UI, it was like they purposefully made it odd/horrible.

I also didn't like that it seemed the norm. for people to have to macro, and the types of macros and other things...

I will admit, I could of gave it more of a chance, but if I have to make myself do something, to be 'fair', maybe I was right to not use the rest of the trial time.

I was interested in MO also, but it seemed to have even more problems.

Get a new AA sandbox even, that is fantasy, doesn't have everyone cheating/macroing, isn't pay to win, and I am there.  I will give others a look, but I prefer fantasy D&D type mmos.

Originally posted by Grahor

Those who want Skyrim mmorpg are sadly mistaken in their desires. There is absolutely nothing in what makes Skyrim great that can be moved to mmorpg model.

 

The main great thing about Skyrim is that every little thing you do sticks. You kill somebody - it does not respawn - the Story is changed - it will not change back. Can't be done in mmorpg setting.

 

Everything else is pretty trivial. Plus, I've learned that I hate snow-filled... things. I have snow behind my windows 4 months a year, if I'll have snow any more around me, it's the direct road to suicide. Gimmi greenery!

A game called Citadel of Sorcery may be worth a look at the game mechanics, generate all content so it lives only once ......

It can be done in an MMO it is just challenging; But if you have your instance of the world that you adventure in with peoiple you invite it I believe in theory can be done. All quest content is generated as you play....... And you only ever have one quest....

---

Originally posted by Grahor
Those who want Skyrim mmorpg are sadly mistaken in their desires. There is absolutely nothing in what makes Skyrim great that can be moved to mmorpg model.
 
The main great thing about Skyrim is that every little thing you do sticks. You kill somebody - it does not respawn - the Story is changed - it will not change back. Can't be done in mmorpg setting.
 
Everything else is pretty trivial. Plus, I've learned that I hate snow-filled... things. I have snow behind my windows 4 months a year, if I'll have snow any more around me, it's the direct road to suicide. Gimmi greenery!

---

It can .. sorta be done in an MMO .. it just would be the farthest thing from a standard themepark MMO that you could possibly find.

But what people want, is all of the single player aspects they love, in a setting where they can hope to prove how much better they are than others by walking around with better gear, or by being able to duel / pvp with them. Which is not at all what an MMO is actually supposed to be. In theory.

As for why darkfall doesn't satisfy the Elder Scrolls crowd, it's because darkfall isn't 1/50th as good a game.

Darkfall just looks like Elder Scrolls, the same way AOC sort of looks like Elder Scrolls, doesn't mean they are like Elder Scrolls. The top two rpg games people want an mmorpg made from are Fable and Elder Scrolls, both have a ton of NPCs and soloability.  Story is an overplayed element in this equation, it helps but people dont play elder Scrolls to hear the story, the NPCs in these games are dynamic and active. The real trick to making an mmorpg verson of Elder Scrolls or Fable and whatnot is making the player indistinguishable from the npcs. Because lets face it the modern mmorpg is a chat hub with hero toons beating each other to death. 

1.Free roaming

2. NPCs act or change according to your character

3. Town events and releationships with NPCs, see Glarthur from Oblivian and boxing matches in Fable.

4. Own your own stuff, I dont mean silk bags, houses, taverns etc. Most mmorpgs dont want to build towns that change or can be changed or let players own houses in favor of Diku mudding it. And when they do let you build towns they do it like Darkfall and turn it into a scorched earth Goon party. 

5. Other stuff to do besides level grind or gear grind. Thats right can you hunt a deer with your bare hands in most mmorpgs just to see if you can? NO. Are there strange berserker men also hunting deer in the woods with you who are going to try and kill and eat you? probably not.

6. Wildlife, all wildlife in mmorpgs is hostile and wants you dead and they also can detect you up to 100 yards.  

7. There are NOT millions or thousands of teenagers in Elder Scrolls games with characters named somthing like Legolas. 

8. There would have to be guilds or factions the player could join without joining a player guild. Or there would have to be a way for players to form their own super secret assassins guild, theives guild and whatnot,.. secret order or the pagan bear, doens't work in mmorpgs they want all guilds to be gear grinding dungeon guilds, how boring. 

9. mmorpgs dont have taverns with drunks and mysterious rangers checking you out, or totally insane assassins who have been stalking and following you for days or weeks. NPS in mmorpgs dont remember you or hold a grudge. mmo npcs are impersonal and belong to everybody so there are no one on one npc interactions and player on player interactions will usually result in a pvp battle or talking about their new GF or gossip over trade chat. 

Theres at least 100 other reasons Darkfall isn't anything like Elder Scrolls and how they screw up the rpg formula in mmorpgs all the time, but the intangibles would take forever to list. 

Everyone feels like a God eventually in Elder Scroll games . ... the PVE is easy and you can quickload it whenever you want while in Darkfall some people will always be cannon fodder compared to the most skilled players. Doing something that makes you feel like a hero in Darkfall is pretty rare compared to Elder Scroll games. I actually wish that the Elder Scroll games had more difficult AI so I would love it if I was playing online with other people but their UI would completely fail for an MMO. I am playing Skyrim now and so wish that they had a UI more like Darkfalls (pretty sad but totally true). It seems like I have a really hard time deciding on which favorites to choose when I can only have 8??!? I use every key on my keyboard when I play Darkfall and my toon has magic blocked so that definitely says something as there is no other game as fast-paced and with as many buttons to press. I customize every game that I play but it really sucks that I cannot choose different buttons for 1-10 keys in Skyrim for example and instead have to make macros do it for me . .... it would have been so simple to just add those to the control options! grrrrRRRRrrrRRrrrRrr!! Because of the UI I can honestly say that Darkfall feels more immersive for me since I do not have to open my gear screen or magic spells screen during combat like I have to wayyyy too often in Elder Scroll games. I am pretty disappointed in the amount of times that I have to do it in Skyrim because the graphics and sounds are amazing and it would be perfect if I didn't have so many interruptions reminding me that its just a game.

Skyrim is really buggy. I would say that its definitely buggier than Darkfall currently is by far. Everytime I go into a building there is a 30% chance that a bunch of noise can be heard from items bouncing around on their own. The other day in a dungeon when I forgot to save it I warped through a door before I could open it so was stuck in the dungeon . ...! When I first got the game I crashed every ten minutes or so and had a really bad problem of seeing solid yellow replacing most things. I fixed this mostly but it still happens probably every half-hour or so and turning down the graphics makes no difference. Daggerfall was also buggy as hell but so much that they were sued for it.

I have noticed that with the Elder Scroll series games, the newer they are means the less content and customization available. Daggerfall was a huge game! I don't even think I've seen a game come anywhere close to that big to this day. I loved how I could make my own spells and stuff but cannot do this kind of thing in Skyrim that I have seen. Also in Daggerfall there was a lot more clothing and stuff which is what the girls usually like.

The first time that I logged into Daggerfall I was awestruck! I would turn off all the lights in the house and put on my headphones to totally get immersed. This is one of the main reasons that I love Darkfall so much more than other MMORPGs because for me (someone who turns off the lights and puts on headphones) its simply the best one by far. I tried to do this in Mortal Online but it was just too buggy. To be completely honest, for me I am mostly excited for environmental sounds coming out in 2.0 over any other promised features. I am also scared that the combat wont be as fun. The sounds in Darkfall now are very primitive but I am someone who was so amazed with Daggerfall when it came out that I actually walked to towns at first (well that didnt last long lol but still thats really funny to think about when I play the game today).

I honestly do not understand why anyone who PC games would not totally love Elder Scroll games and Darkfall. Well I guess I do because I really hated Darkfall at first. When I play other games I get a totally different feel unless its a good FPS. Most MMORPGs especially are not kinds of games to put on headphones and get into for me because they have too many things visible that remind me that I am playing a game . .. floating exclamation points, question marks, numbers, names, few dozen icons, system and chat windows, red circles around mobs, etc. For non-Darkfall MMORPGs you can guarantee that I am listening to my own music, have the lights on, and may even be eating or watching TV while I play. I wish that there were a lot more MMOs like Darkfall in this sense. I have tried to turn off floating names or whatever if they have that option in other games but it just doesn't work and I realise most of the time that I need the stupid quest tracker up because all I am doing is going from designated point A to designated point B (or maybe C if I am lucky enough the game has more than one path).

Am I really that different from the people who are complaining about Elder Scroll series and Darkfall? When I see your posts it makes me think that you are all crazy. I understand that most people don't want to be griefed and don't want to play a FFA PVP full-loot game but the PVP is not nearly as often as other games and people like my girlfriend find safe PVE spots easily as well as being left alone by most people because she has played long enough that they know that she doesn't want to PVP and more people than the average shmo would guess respect that. There really is the two polar opposites in this game because she would not be able to avoid PVP in many other MMORPGs as easily because in most MMOs there is no sense of community like there is in Darkfall and you really do not remember people as they do not affect you as much. She has played for 2 years now and only one time was she camped so much that she couldn't play for an hour. In other games she would have to play on the PVE-only server by herself or with her dad because I wouldn't play that for very long at all.

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Originally posted by MMOExposed
why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?
 
what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?
 
I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.
 
fill me in somebody

---

Why don't you play the game and see by yourself.

If Df share some common points with Tes like immersion, its really just it. And i find it a bit funny when you say you can do everything you do in skyrim in any mmo, because its so way off reality. Not a single mmo offer the character customization Skyrim have, the immersion, the number and the variety of encounters, we will have to wait for the new gen to see if the story line is as good in the last mmo as it is in Skyrim, because its certainly so much better than any mmo today, and so on and so on. Give me mmo where you can hold your torch into a dungeon, guess what none. Then apart from DF not a single mmo have fps combat that worth it (and DF fps combat isn't very good imo), and if you played those games you would know Tes combat just blow up DF combat, but then there is a mmo/solo game stuff here. Its clear a 400 men siege need some combat tweak a solo game don't have to handle. Then the whole world and immersion, even if DF have the best immersion in any other mmo out there, its just so far from Skyrim. Ui and control in DF are awful compare to Skyrim, but again you can pause a solo game, you can't pause an mmo. All in all if they share some common aspects they are just miles away.
 
ANd its clear Df didn't had 1/10 of the resource Skyrim had. Bethesda make TES games since a decade or more now, and thats their main focus point for all those years, their IP evolved a lot since the first Tes, they also made an mmo i think. Its a pretty much unique characteristic even in gaming company you see, with maybe CCP and Eve, no wonder why their last Tes is that good. Darkfall have a brand new company behind, an indy one that never made any game title before in a country with pretty much no experience in gaming at all (apart from the nordic guys that launched the project). Still their game outperform most mainstream mmo in few domains like immersion by on long shot. But ye Skyrim is just miles away, no offense their, it really cannot be any different considering the circumstances. I just hope DF will hold enough to keep going, but the market is pretty harsh.

BECAUSE IT IS FREE FOR ALL PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing immersive in trying to advance a story or play a few hours before dinner then all of a sudden you're getting ganked and all your inventory gets taken away.  I play MMO's because I want to take a break from the daily grind of real life, not have some punk ass decide my fun should be ruined.  Players play PvE, not PvP.  PvP is and always will be the smallest common denominator and a niche.  Doesnt mean I dont enjoy PvP but it has to have its place, and I feel that RvR style PvP offers the best of both worlds, and as such is the only form of PvP I support.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

And its far worse made.

Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest

 

in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

 

so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

I don't think it's a matter of "is it possible to do it in a MMO", though of course there are things that would have to be altered to make it suitable for a MMO. Critical NPCs couldn't stay dead once killed, for just one example.

That said, I think it's more a case of two things:

1. The will to do it.

2. The ability to pull it off with as much polish and depth as Skyrim (or other TES games) have.

I think DF has a very TES feel already, in terms of the overall sorta "grim" look of everything, the First-Person perspective, real time combat. I'd said several times while playing it that it reminded me of playing Morrowind in terms of its overall "feel". But the "feel" of the game is where it ends.

What makes it fall far short is that it lacks in the degree of content, depth meaningful consequences that Morrowind (and other TES games) have.

Also, in a TES game you don't have highly developed and experienced characters hanging around the newbie areas ganking brand-new players "for the lulz" and then calling themselves "Hardcore"

For someone to claim that DF is in the same league in terms of content, depth, detail, polish and overall quality as a game like Skyrim is seriously reaching, though; fanboyism at its most deluded.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

 

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

 

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

 

fill me in somebody

Depends on the type of elder scroll player somewhat but here is my answer:

1. Darkfall is more like Morrowind in its world design and spirt of size (although its larger than Morrowind). Skyrim as I understand is about 1/4 the size of Morrowind world. So you can imagine Darkfall is crazy friggin huge by comparision.

2. The size of the darkfall world is what appeals to most of the old school elder scroll crowd but in all fairness there is also a ton of static things in the world so the interactive content is low for a world of its size.

3. The elder scroll folks who are very independent minded and like a good story are not pleased with darkfall however those that like the elder scroll series but ALSO like stradegy warfare and general excitement like darkfall.

if any of that makes sense.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

 

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

 

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

 

fill me in somebody

True, but then name just one MMORPG (btw RPG would have to be the first difference as modern MMO games hardly deserve RPG part). Just name one that has ALL those features not just some. I want to play just one game and I don't want to resign from any of Skyrim's (or going deeper in the past Daggerfall) features. Also that game would have to have a great or at least good story that isn't exactly kill X mobs in next cave (no such quest goals in Skyrim at all - eventually just kill some rare mob or something and that's it).

Also as others already stated in MMO games in most cases all mobs respawn while in Skyrim only wolfs, bandits and such. If you kill some particular named NPC then they are dead. Also while you play shape of the world changes at least a bit (and i don't mean here weather or in-game time).

And ofc such game would have to have ALL those elements or it simplu wouldn't be that game:) After all every single detail here counts.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD.

3. The elder scroll folks who are very independent minded and like a good story are not pleased with darkfall however those that like the elder scroll series but ALSO like stradegy warfare and general excitement like darkfall.

I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. At least not entirely. There is also a third kind of TES player such as myself. I play TES since Daggerfall and I don't really treat predefined stories as something that is mandatory to RPG however TES also at least once allowed to create nice and complex story for player's character and the whole world around it (after all player's actions always affected it). One could say that this i also something that is going on in MMO sandbox games however the fact is that in comparison to games such as Daggerfall no modern MMO delivers tools to do so that are at least nearly as good and fun as it was in case of Daggerfall.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

 

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

 

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

 

fill me in somebody

I can only share my expiriences with the game.

When I read about Darfall I said to myself, "this is exactly what I'm looking for in a game."

I tried it first when there was only an EU server. They only allowed so many people to join the game at a time so i got in late. I start with my character. I was supposed to kill some goblins. I went to the goblin village had fun trying to keep from dying by getting too many Goblins attacking me at one time. It was perfect. Challenging and fun.

Then a veteran player came and killed me. I had no chance of defeating him.

I tried again. I got killed by a veteran player once again.

I decided that I should avoid the Goblin village since it seemed veterans knew that was where the noobs would be and hung around there killing noobs. I went around collecting things, I tried fishing, mining and so on. Three veterans on horseback and in plate mail chased me down and killed me.

Since that just wasn't fun for me I quit.

After an American server came out, I figured I would try again. Basically the same thing happened again and again.

Darkfall is a great concept for a game but the veterans make sure to let the noobs know by their actions they don't want new players playing the game. I have no intention of playing a game where I am not wanted.

Darkfall players strangle the game by making the new player expirience so horrible they decide it isn't worth the fifteen dollars a month to just get ganked over and over again by people you have no shot at winning against.

If I were to recomend a sandbox to Skyrim players it would be EVE, you can learn the ropes of the game in Save Space, and then eventually venture out into low sec or  00, after you get to the point where you know what you can afford to lose.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

 

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

 

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

 

fill me in somebody

Depends on the type of elder scroll player somewhat but here is my answer:

1. Darkfall is more like Morrowind in its world design and spirt of size (although its larger than Morrowind). Skyrim as I understand is about 1/4 the size of Morrowind world. So you can imagine Darkfall is crazy friggin huge by comparision.

2. The size of the darkfall world is what appeals to most of the old school elder scroll crowd but in all fairness there is also a ton of static things in the world so the interactive content is low for a world of its size.

3. The elder scroll folks who are very independent minded and like a good story are not pleased with darkfall however those that like the elder scroll series but ALSO like stradegy warfare and general excitement like darkfall.

 

if any of that makes sense.

 

Nope it doesn't...lol

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by forest-nl

Both free roaming worlds and free to develop your character as you pleased and not force to follow the quest path you can leave the road as in both games.

Dungeons in Skyrim almost same as in Oblivion and dull???...are you playing a different game here?

A themepark is TOTALLY DIFFERNT from what Skyrim as game presents no comparison Mr. mmo(themepark)exposed:P

No it isnt. Have you actually played video games?

 

Oblivion played a lot like Everquest, or any other open world themepark. Huge open world with plenty of PVE content. Gives some alternate content that can be done as well.

 

SPG sandboxes like ES, Red Dead Redepmtion, and GTA play nothing at all like a MMO sandbox. You dont play Uncle Owen to win the game in them, and you sure as hell dont have to produce your own content as plenty of it is provided.

 

The reason they are called "sandboxes" is cause they give a player alternate content, but in no way/shape/form do you progress thru to the end of the game due to it.  No matter how much a player gets "side tracked", there is always a path to follow whenever the person decides to get back to it. MMO sandboxes provide no path.

Did i say Skyrim is sandbox(its sologame after all)no, but its for sure not even close to a themepark eather. Oh and there si no path in Skyrim your comepletely free how to play you can follow a path if you want but its not needed at all. You prolly have not played Darkfall or TES games thats obvious.

It's the AI that makes skyrim so enjoyable and how the world reacts to your actions, mmo's have terrible static AI that just stand around waiting to be killed so that they can respawn again.