Originally posted by kdchan

Do not trust vets. I have a 2 year old char (inactive) and i can tell you that stats matters, A LOT. Is because who have a end game char hit so hard.
100+ in quickness mean you swin more fast compared to people who have 50, STR is the same, every 10 points of STR you have a 1 point of damage increase, so if you have 110 is 11 points more per hit. Also quickness mitigate damage too. Int and DEX is the same as STR. Also i don't mention all the subskills that increment the damage/defence/regeneration a lot. Is a hard grind, meditation help but the best way is
to perform task AFK in macro because, for example, swimming increase 3 stats at the same time.

No matter how a vet told you that you can be viable from day 1, is a lie, they just say this because the game has very low population atm and they want more players to roll, and no matter how good you are, against a 2 year old maxed char you will lose even if you are more good to land hits because he need a lot less hits to kill you.

For all, wait for DF 2.0 where they claim you can be viable in your ROLE in a small amount of time. I think 2.0 will be the saviour or the apocalypse for this game. Hope they do it right this time because i like this game.

So much wrong with your stat "knowledge i dont even know where to start.

Gains are minimal and matter most at the end (for instance two character of equal player skill one with 5-10 less in some stats would lose more or less, equal geared)

You wont be viable in the leading charge of a seige at day 1 but cant offer some help after a week with supporting the maxed out fighters, such as healing /buffing and running supplies.

Ive seen many times where a lesser statted and skilled player has beaten a well statted player.  Im that guy with stats 80+ that gets beat by far newer characters.  Player skill matters most.  Stat and skill gains are minimal but add up over the long haul, getting stuff up to 75 is more than enough to compete with maxed out characters granted you as a player knows how to play.  Thats the largest determination on who wins, or who stays alive.

1vs1 seems to be reserved as friendly activites, not that occasion random 1vs1's dont occur.  Most fights are small group or zerg brawls where a whole new set of rules invole teamwork rather than who has more maxed characters.

Then theres the obvious fact that those good players dont frequent nooby areas to grief new players, they are either trying to recruit them into their clan or gifting loot bags to them.

Originally posted by Sid_Vicious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXkszFJliI

^ 3-day old character ^

He doesn't even have witchesbrew or sacrifice yet and he missed half of his attacks and he was not buffed. With more potions and something better than a transmuted sword he probably would have won at the end.

"your mastery of muscular has increased"     

TThats a 350+ hit point skill which is not currently possible to reach in 3 days. 

difference between self heal and WB is closer to 25.

AV changed the AOE size of WB, not the tick amount.

Anybody who says  " Training up healing spells is even less beneficial  " is not a vet because they would have their SH to surging which is amazing.

So again I'll ask, why do you think flaming real numbers from the game you claim to be a "vet" when its obvious you have no real idea of how things work in df.

Darkfall had some really great aspects like an innovative mob AI.  I'm glad I gave it a try.

That being said, Darkfall is too exploitable and too difficult for the average player to have a roll.  The macroing and 'bloodwalls' are a shame.  If it were up to me I would do away with ALL SKILL PROGRESSION!!!!  Why not?  You can't convince me that you have 'so much' invested in your character that you deserve an advantage (over those that don't macro).  If you hardcore players want 'fair fights' so damm much....give all characters max skills.  Just think for a minute. Instead of macroing all the time you could be PvPing more, and have more targets!!!  PvEers would still have gathering and crafting as everyone will still need gear.  

Darkfall is simply too difficult for the mainstream player.  One truly needs to have skills with Autoit and keyboard macroing and one hell of a twitch reflex to be competitive.  I understand that this is what the truly hardcore players want so I never QQ'd, I just stopped playing.  I freely admit that I don't have uber skills and I want to have the ability to walk away from the keyboard on occasion without having to strip off every damm thing I'm wearing.

In the end I hope Darkfall has longterm success.  Anytime a non-Wow clone has success it encourages other developers to go out on a limb and try something different, and we need different badly.

Originally posted by TigerDriver

difference between self heal and WB is closer to 25.

AV changed the AOE size of WB, not the tick amount.

Anybody who says  " Training up healing spells is even less beneficial  " is not a vet because they would have their SH to surging which is amazing.

So again I'll ask, why do you think flaming real numbers from the game you claim to be a "vet" when its obvious you have no real idea of how things work in df.

 

 

You obviously don't know what you are talking about when  you say that witches brew heals 25 more hp than heal self.  Anyone who plays DF could tell you that you are wrong.

btw, yes they did change the tick amount AND the AOE.

get your facts straight before you come in here with your narrow minded noobspeak of someone who doesn't even play the game, baddy.  The differences are minimal, yet still you continue to cry.  Even if it was 25 more HP every 45 sec, that is less than the difference of a single hit.  

  This just goes to show how ridiculous the people crying about vets really are.

Originally posted by unclemo

Darkfall had some really great aspects like an innovative mob AI.  I'm glad I gave it a try.

That being said, Darkfall is too exploitable and too difficult for the average player to have a roll.  The macroing and 'bloodwalls' are a shame.  If it were up to me I would do away with ALL SKILL PROGRESSION!!!!  Why not?  You can't convince me that you have 'so much' invested in your character that you deserve an advantage (over those that don't macro).  If you hardcore players want 'fair fights' so damm much....give all characters max skills.  Just think for a minute. Instead of macroing all the time you could be PvPing more, and have more targets!!!  PvEers would still have gathering and crafting as everyone will still need gear.  

Darkfall is simply too difficult for the mainstream player.  One truly needs to have skills with Autoit and keyboard macroing and one hell of a twitch reflex to be competitive.  I understand that this is what the truly hardcore players want so I never QQ'd, I just stopped playing.  I freely admit that I don't have uber skills and I want to have the ability to walk away from the keyboard on occasion without having to strip off every damm thing I'm wearing.

In the end I hope Darkfall has longterm success.  Anytime a non-Wow clone has success it encourages other developers to go out on a limb and try something different, and we need different badly.

Two remarks. First, if you remove all progression from an RPG what is left is something else. For Darkfall it would mean that the game would be nothing but a FPS. Second, there is nothing "hard" or "difficult" in Darkfall as it stands. Time-consuming does not make something hard, it makes it just time-consuming. If you want to see competitive FPS gameplay you are more likely to find it from blockbuster FPS games that have millions of players than in Darkfall with its few thousand players.

As a more general remark for the thread. If you need someone to convince everyone else is wrong and the game is a gem in hiding, there really must be something wrong with the game. Even the most silly things will get popular if they are well executed and generally interesting (see e.g. Minecraft). At present not enough people are suggesting the game to their friends and no amount of "vet talk" will change that. The reality or facts have no significance if those who try the game don't want to continue playing it.

As i said before the issue is the large amount of grind and cause this the miss of a true role, the game is unbalanced toward the hybrid battle mage because is the actual and only viable playstyle.
Why? Simply because the game is build in this way. Since the actual specialization is useless everyone (at least 95% of the actual playerbase) is a battlemage, because the game allow you to be competitive only if you have melee/archery/magic/crafting.

Think about it, melee 2h weapon is mandatory for close combat, archery because magic don't work underwater, and magic as closed range weapon on land. Also i don't mention all the buffs of every magic school that give you and advantage, blinds, roots and so on.
And the last one, the crafting, to protect your gear you have to raise maintenance through crafting. Crating is a time consuming because to do it you have to gather raw, and is a very slow and tedious work. Everything in this game is time consuming, always when you die in a battle is difficult to come back in a reasonable amount of time.

Tl;dr, everything is this game is linked, so there isn't a role at all but more skill you have more versatile and strong you are.

Is because people wait 2.0, where we hope there will be a deep role and specialization system and not the feel to raise every skill, no more hybrids, no more battlemages but a lot of different playstyles with dedicated armours. I still have hopes for this because i really like this game and i want it succed.

well, personally, I like that hybrids are dominant in pvp rather than one particular playstyle.  I think DF is well balanced in that regard because when you have a class based pvp game there are ALWAYS imbalances.  Classes are what makes a pvp game imbalanced.  In DF your role is defined by the armor and weapons you wear and your playstyle, not something you are stuck with because you picked a certain class on the character creation screen.

You would be amazed at how many people think they could be pro at a video game if they just took the time, they think all it takes to be good at a game like starcraft2 is time investment.  DF isn't just time investment training a character, you have to spend time getting good.  DF is obviously hard, the mobs are harder, the pvp is harder, and when things are hard, people will naturally cry about it.

Just because some cry about how hard the game is for them personally, doesn't mean the game is neccessarily flawed.  I actually think DF has become too easy, it is too easy for stupid players to make a good character.  I don't care about tons of subs from terrible players like WoW has, I would rathar know that the people I'm playing with have what it takes to be competitive and play a hardcore pvpmmorpg.  If i wanted to play with a bunch of instant-gratification babies, I would play any other mmorpg on the market.  Darkfall is such a good game that even the wussies and spoiled kids who it wasn't designed for want to play some aspect of it.  I'm very thankful that the people I meet in DF are, for the most part, quality.

Doesn't that just make perfect sense?

The tears will never stop and there is nothing AV can do about it without ruining the game for the people who it was meant for (non-wussies).

There are plenty of other posts in this thread that demonstrate the difference between the people who "get it", the people who DF was meant for, and the rejects who naturally feel the need to cry about something when they feel it is too hard for them.  This is what happens when a gaming company finally makes a game that caters to hard-mode players instead of the easymode, instant-gratification types that comprise the majority of the gamer demographic.  The differences are minimal, smaller than any other pvpmmorpg between newer player and vet, yet STILL some people continue to blame the game for why they suck at pvp. 

In any game that you find yourself dying in, It is always FAR, FAR easier to blame the game than blame yourself and try think of what you could be doing differently to become better as a player, instead of becomming a useless forum crybaby, complaining that things are too hard and differences are too great to overcome in a video game.

Here's the problem with Darkfall: By the nature of the game, 1/4th the players in it don't get to have fun. It's not possible, unless you enjoy being killed, being looted, being victimized, losing all your stuff... and essentially being a nonfactor anywhere you go.

Out of all the active players in the game, 1/4th of them are trash compared to the other 3/4ths. Any PvP encounter they have, they will die and not have fun. They are the noobs or the bad. Doesn't matter which: you play Darkfall, you won't have fun.

New players are extremely likely to be in this bottom 1/4th. So they leave and the game doesn't grow.

This is the MMO Credo: Successful MMOs are fueled by Veteran's tears... not Casual's. Darkfall caters to the best and gives the best player experience to the greatest skilled/developed character while carrying the unspoken expectation that those on the other end will allow themselves to have a miserable time and not leave the game.

If Darkfall 2.0 wants to make a splash - they need to FOCUS on making the gaming experience of the bottom 1/4th as enjoyable as possible. How they'll do that, I have no idea. I doubt they'll even try.

Originally posted by trashburnin

Darkfall is such a good game that even the wussies and spoiled kids who it wasn't designed for want to play some aspect of it.  I'm very thankful that the people I meet in DF are, for the most part, quality.

Doesn't that just make perfect sense?

The tears will never stop and there is nothing AV can do about it without ruining the game for the people who it was meant for (non-wussies).

Oh, I can see why this game is dead if you are indicative of the average person who plays.

You don't have to be a wuss not to enjoy a game that's set up to be a new/bad/casual player's hell. You just have to be a new/bad/casual player.  And the fact Darkfall probably has about 1-2k players left is a testiment to how ineffective their model was. You seem to have what you want though - a hardcore MMO with a dedicated, skilled and VERY elite/tiny playerbase. Why are you here, trying to court us wussies/spoiled children who played for a month or two and were just not "hardcore" enough to hack it?

There's a rumour circulating the tavern....darkfall vets are campaigning to bring in some fresh meat for the meat grinder.....shh......you never heard it from me

All jokes aside, 1st time i wanted to try darkfall i really did hear people saying this in the official forum. That added to the numerous lengthy adventurine betrayal folklore almost turn me off. But i did manage to secure back my meatball and give the game a trial.

For me as a new player experience feedback

"They need to improve the effing UI" 

Conclusion : Waiting for adventurine to finish betraying the player trust fund and release darkfall 2.0

PS. The "I can never be as good as those no life vet player or botter" mentality do sink in a little into my puddle of fear. 

Here is the truth:

I played DF since beta and am universally acclaimed the greatest DF pvp player ever.  People are in awe of me.  So when I say something about this game, you know that it's coming from a true authority.

There is no such thing as skill in DF.  It's all about how much you play.  DF takes absolutely no special talent or ability. 

Originally posted by xBlackBoxX

Here is what makes a DF pr0:

I played 13 hours a day.  My mom brought my meals to my room, and I showered at most once a week.  As I 0wned and pwnzd n00bs who only played a few hours a day, I  became  more and  more aware of my incredible talent and ability to sit in front of a screen and press buttons on my mouse and keyboard.  As much as others were in awe of me, I was even more in awe of myself.  I was so amazing. 

On ventrilo, I barked out orders to those idiots and losers who didn't play as much as myself: in truth they were mostly just in my way, but I allowed them to tag along because my awesomeness needed witnesses.   History needed to record the events that came from my sitting in front a computer screen pressing buttons  on my mouse and keyboard.  My talent, ability, and skill had to be known. 

I still look back on those days with pride and awe at myself. 

Pretty much this, we all know its  an attempt at being sarcastic and a little over the top, but he/she isnt far of the mark.

Originally posted by mrxennon

Originally posted by xBlackBoxX
stereotypical garbage

Pretty much this, we all know its  an attempt at being sarcastic and a little over the top, but he/she isnt far of the mark.

The game isn't about killing noobs.  Nobody actually does that except a few oddballs, and they are usually always terrible at pvp, that is why they pick on the weak.

This is a group pvp game, you fight groups and battles are always imbalanced in one way or another.  People who have played longer are naturally better, mostly in player skill but also in character.  Isn't that just realistic and natural?    1v1 is a rare occasion.

Character differences between vet and noob are not more than 100% in any area and in only one area in particular, melee.

Many people like long term progrsesion with minimal benefits, it keeps things interesting.  Why must every game be made for the instant gratification crowd?  Can't we just have one hard-mode game? 

Again, since you missed it.  60 str, 60 vit = 375 HP.  110 str, 110 vit = 435 HP. 

{mod edit}

Originally posted by trashburnin

Originally posted by mrxennon

Originally posted by xBlackBoxX
stereotypical garbage

Pretty much this, we all know its  an attempt at being sarcastic and a little over the top, but he/she isnt far of the mark.

The game isn't about killing noobs.  Nobody actually does that except a few oddballs, and they are usually always terrible at pvp, that is why they pick on the weak.

This is a group pvp game, you fight groups and battles are always imbalanced in one way or another.  People who have played longer are naturally better, mostly in player skill but also in character.  Isn't that just realistic and natural?    1v1 is a rare occasion and it would be smart to run with a group before trying to go out alone.

Character differences between vet and noob are not more than 100% in any area and in only one area in particular, melee.

Many people like long term progrsesion with minimal benefits, it keeps things interesting.  Why must every game be made for the instant gratification crowd?  Can't we just have one hard-mode game? 

Again, since you missed it.  60 str, 60 vit = 375 HP.  110 str, 110 vit = 435 HP. 

{mod edit}

 

I did,  I dont play it anymore, because of the reasons Blackbox has given, it isnt a skillful game, its a game based on more time available to play makes your character bigger and better (time = stat numbers go up with actions) I dont have that time you have, I need to make a living and give time to my family aswel.

And as to killing newbs, the starting areas were always under siege by groups ploughing in and player killing newbies.  So much so that I believe the devs had to make some changes.  And what do you consider being ignorant? as another thread you have replied to says you cant wait to kill the ignorant. in reference to DF2.

Originally posted by mrxennon

Originally posted by trashburnin

Originally posted by mrxennon

Originally posted by xBlackBoxX
stereotypical garbage

Pretty much this, we all know its  an attempt at being sarcastic and a little over the top, but he/she isnt far of the mark.

The game isn't about killing noobs.  Nobody actually does that except a few oddballs, and they are usually always terrible at pvp, that is why they pick on the weak.

This is a group pvp game, you fight groups and battles are always imbalanced in one way or another.  People who have played longer are naturally better, mostly in player skill but also in character.  Isn't that just realistic and natural?    1v1 is a rare occasion and it would be smart to run with a group before trying to go out alone.

Character differences between vet and noob are not more than 100% in any area and in only one area in particular, melee.

Many people like long term progrsesion with minimal benefits, it keeps things interesting.  Why must every game be made for the instant gratification crowd?  Can't we just have one hard-mode game? 

Again, since you missed it.  60 str, 60 vit = 375 HP.  110 str, 110 vit = 435 HP. 

{mod edit}

 

I did,  I dont play it anymore, because of the reasons Blackbox has given, it isnt a skillful game, its a game based on more time available to play makes your character bigger and better (time = stat numbers go up with actions) I dont have that time you have, I need to make a living and give time to my family aswel.

 

And as to killing newbs, the starting areas were always under siege by groups ploughing in and player killing newbies.  So much so that I believe the devs had to make some changes.  And what do you consider being ignorant? as another thread you have replied to says you cant wait to kill the ignorant. in reference to DF2.

I think the reference to ignorance is because you keep saying that you need high stats to do well in pvp and therefore player skill doesnt matter, when in fact, DF is quite to opposite.

Now if your in a 1vs1 melee only stand and swing DPS race then stats will determine the outcome (granted equal gear and the same weapon).  However such fights do not exist.

I can see where the reference to ignorance would be used, however perhaps a better way to put it could have been found.

There are a whole lot of good pvpers taking down max stat/skill players while under matched in skills and stats themselves.

Stats and skill gains increase damage/resistece/effect FRACTIONALLY and one missed shot can easily render your superior stats useless against a lesser character.

Truth is, below 75 you need to be VERY skilled as a player to do well in pvp, it can be done.  However it is very quick and easy to get what you need up to 75.  75-100 offers frational gains that are overshadowed by the need to know what you are doing to succeed.

And yes...most vets would be more likely to give you a loot bag rather than gank you unless your in an enemy clan, known and hated, or deemd a competator.  Seems blackbox's veiw on DF is both wrong and outdated.

Surging & fizzle mechanics are the major flaws in this game, get rid of those and u can compete vs a vet.

This game is the greatest game I've ever played, period. All the nitpicking you see on forums is by people who are so picky nothing would ever please them.

Originally posted by trashburnin

I saw this on the DF forums and thought it had some decent information that people might not be aware of.  I hear some people complaining that newer players don't stand a chance in pvp or that you have to grind for 6 months before you can pvp and it simply isn't true.  I've been pvping from day 1 and it isn't hard to find newer players to pvp against if you know where to look.  I've never felt like any other player was so impossible to beat that I couldn't take him down with a little help from a friend.  Darkfall character progression is meant to be long term but with minimal benefits. It is nowhere near the gap that you find in other mmorpgs with pvp.

 

a new player asks a question about viability, someone informs him incorrectly earlier in the thread and is corrected by a vet.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=5170760#post5170760

"You are wrong. Rays and buffs to 75 and 50+ intensifies are not basic requirements pvp, it takes an extremely long time to raise rays and buffs from 50-75. I doubt you even have all your rays at 75. I know I don't and I've been playing since launch. I do have most of my intensifies at 100 however and 110 int since before meditation.

The difference between 50 and 75, 75-100 ect., in self-buffs is .2 more protections with the exception of stoneskin, which is like .4 If i remember right. Also not something to be concerned about as a new player. Duration is the main benefit but yet haven't bothered to raise my self-buffs past 50 because I consider it to be negligible and not worth the cost, fights usually don't last longer than 10 mins unless it is a siege or you are facing 50 ping bunnyhoppers. It is nice to have some skills that you just want to raise naturally.

Unfortunately, a lot of players find it all to easy to blame not having those skills as the reason that they lost in pvp. I used to hear it all the time at the beginning of the game. "Ohh, those guys have maxed out rigor, otherwise we would have won!". "ohh, that guy had banded armor on and I just had studded leather".

The difference between 50 and 75 and 75-100 in a spell or weapon mastery is about +1-2 damage at most. I have two accounts and I have actually tested it. Nakeds take extra damage and that has to be factored into testing.

Intesifies are like 5% with archmage being another 5% and int is like +1 every 15 points or something like that. There is a little bit of RNG leeway with damage range but it is very small. Also, not many people are aware that there are crits in Darkfall, but the crits are very small crits, like 5%. Also defensive "crits" where you take less damage, probably due to skills like reflex and defense, again very small and infrequent.

It isn't like you can't pk people even if you are doing 10 less damage with a spell. This isn't rockem sockem robots and you can make up differences by catching people off guard and having better aim.

60 str and 60 vit = 375 HP, 110 str, 110 vit = 435 HP. Not that big of a difference.

I was beating people that had magic with bows up untill everyone started getting 100 in multiple magic schools, and that was pre-magic nerf, pre-mage killer specializations.

If you treat combat like a textbook, like it is rockem sockem robots and like you and your opponent are going to land every hit, yea those little stats do matter, but any good player knows he can usually make up the difference with skill.

Everything in the game is like that. Rigor and Ignore pain are two of the main defensive skills that give you .5 protection each, so when you have them both at 100, you take a whopping 1 point less damage from attacks.

Bad players, like TK123 likely is, tend to think you need to have a near finished character before you can pvp because they are so terrible at the game, they think it is the only way they can beat anyone at all. It is pretty obvious that is what is going on here, sadly.

Bad players should not give advice."

No matter what you try explain people these days wanne be uber in few weeks and kick ass with there super loot they easly get if they need to work for it they keep whining or quit, untill eather devs capitulate or games comepletely died.

People want fast skilling up safezones and toggle pvp on/off instance hold hands and pve with phat lewtz be left alone while pve'ing and with joucy flavor called EZMODE and lots of FLUFF thats what they get in all these disgusting themeparks so they want this also in hardcore sandbox darkfall.

And brag on forums how tough they are in mean while macro/afkmacro/exploit/buy gold/and hack thats the gamers of today, and most vetrans(few exceptions) have played like this thats sad story:(

Darkfall was doomed from beginning, there are just to many carebears from themeparks these days.

Darkfall is far from doomed and these nay-sayer trolls make me laugh.  Get better skill and you can play someday, until then keep crying.