I saw this on the DF forums and thought it had some decent information that people might not be aware of.  I hear some people complaining that newer players don't stand a chance in pvp or that you have to grind for 6 months before you can pvp and it simply isn't true.  I've been pvping from day 1 and it isn't hard to find newer players to pvp against if you know where to look.  I've never felt like any other player was so impossible to beat that I couldn't take him down with a little help from a friend.  Darkfall character progression is meant to be long term but with minimal benefits. It is nowhere near the gap that you find in other mmorpgs with pvp.

a new player asks a question about viability, someone informs him incorrectly earlier in the thread and is corrected by a vet.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=5170760#post5170760

"You are wrong. Rays and buffs to 75 and 50+ intensifies are not basic requirements pvp, it takes an extremely long time to raise rays and buffs from 50-75. I doubt you even have all your rays at 75. I know I don't and I've been playing since launch. I do have most of my intensifies at 100 however and 110 int since before meditation.

The difference between 50 and 75, 75-100 ect., in self-buffs is .2 more protections with the exception of stoneskin, which is like .4 If i remember right. Also not something to be concerned about as a new player. Duration is the main benefit but yet haven't bothered to raise my self-buffs past 50 because I consider it to be negligible and not worth the cost, fights usually don't last longer than 10 mins unless it is a siege or you are facing 50 ping bunnyhoppers. It is nice to have some skills that you just want to raise naturally.

Unfortunately, a lot of players find it all to easy to blame not having those skills as the reason that they lost in pvp. I used to hear it all the time at the beginning of the game. "Ohh, those guys have maxed out rigor, otherwise we would have won!". "ohh, that guy had banded armor on and I just had studded leather".

The difference between 50 and 75 and 75-100 in a spell or weapon mastery is about +1-2 damage at most. I have two accounts and I have actually tested it. Nakeds take extra damage and that has to be factored into testing.

Intesifies are like 5% with archmage being another 5% and int is like +1 every 15 points or something like that. There is a little bit of RNG leeway with damage range but it is very small. Also, not many people are aware that there are crits in Darkfall, but the crits are very small crits, like 5%. Also defensive "crits" where you take less damage, probably due to skills like reflex and defense, again very small and infrequent.

It isn't like you can't pk people even if you are doing 10 less damage with a spell. This isn't rockem sockem robots and you can make up differences by catching people off guard and having better aim.

60 str and 60 vit = 375 HP, 110 str, 110 vit = 435 HP. Not that big of a difference.

I was beating people that had magic with bows up untill everyone started getting 100 in multiple magic schools, and that was pre-magic nerf, pre-mage killer specializations.

If you treat combat like a textbook, like it is rockem sockem robots and like you and your opponent are going to land every hit, yea those little stats do matter, but any good player knows he can usually make up the difference with skill.

Everything in the game is like that. Rigor and Ignore pain are two of the main defensive skills that give you .5 protection each, so when you have them both at 100, you take a whopping 1 point less damage from attacks.

Bad players, like TK123 likely is, tend to think you need to have a near finished character before you can pvp because they are so terrible at the game, they think it is the only way they can beat anyone at all. It is pretty obvious that is what is going on here, sadly.

Bad players should not give advice."

The most important aspect of being competative is just having the skill to use, and being extremely skilled in what you use when you use it and how you use it.  Being able to aim while dodging as well.

Then i would say having basic attributes such as hp/stam/mp

At the bottom of the list are the numerous "fractional effect" passive skills being maxed.  There are plenty of garbage players running around with maxed stats and skills, and plenty of half way there players who could easily beat them.

If your a good player youll do fine after mabey a month worth of practice/skilling.

Taking advantage of fractional advantages though a few extra points in a passive pales in comparison with being competant in the player skill department.

These are not DPS races like in most games, where things like fractional advantages make or break encounters.  People come here from theme parks where it is a DPS race and expect that they will fail if they dont have the fractional advantage in stats.  These people are wrong about what kind of game this is.

Fact is alot of players are not very good and blame their char...

In Darkfall you need to get good at the game, its not all bout who has the biggest boots.

Player skill level is not why I don't play.  Lack of a skill point cap is probably the main reason.  That and it's not a sandbox that it tries to label itself.  It's completely unrealistic to master everything.  That's what DF allows you to do, and I think it's lame.  Quite a shame though, it has promise.  It would be so much more popilar if they actually added real sandbox elements.

The main problem is the grind to get skills available. Leveling up rays and stuff isn't so bad, that's kindda fun incorporating it into your killing. It's the silly defensive buffs that you have to buff over and over, just a hassle.

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Fact is alot of players are not very good and blame their char...

In Darkfall you need to get good at the game, its not all bout who has the biggest boots.

Getting good in DF only means nailing down all your autohotkey macros, that includes your auto fire rays as soon as you mouse your aim over a red name, or heal when passes over friend.  The pvp and balance is a joke, made even worse by these autohotkey scripts. This game is a utter waste of time as it now stands to put your time into to PVP, as its just one big waste of time.

Originally posted by IAmMMO

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Fact is alot of players are not very good and blame their char...

In Darkfall you need to get good at the game, its not all bout who has the biggest boots.

Getting good in DF only means nailing down all your autohotkey macros, that includes your auto fire rays as soon as you mouse your aim over a red name, or heal when passes over friend.  The pvp and balance is a joke, made even worse by these autohotkey scripts. This game is a utter waste of time as it now stands to put your time into to PVP, as its just one big waste of time.

I'd say you can be good in pvp using only in-game binds...  but you do have to set up a LOT of in-game binds and this is something new players have no idea about.  Any 'vet' post should mention this.

I see very few vets who claim to be helpful posting their binds publicly

But add autohotkey to the in-game binds and you are much more effective, no doubt.

Yeah, don't forget to make it clear that a new player will need all the autohotkey scripts setup and he should also have a good multi-button mouse like a razor. Better ping to the server helps also. Good gear, and all the skills needed trained up and then maybe....

O yeah and you should probably tell people that they are going to need lots of regents for when they macro their spells up and that is going to take a long time to get also.  Yeah , I spent more time farming for regents so I could macro my spells (or Krog)  than anything else. 

I'm sure I missed out on some dupe, so I am doing it the hard way right?

Originally posted by IAmMMO

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Fact is alot of players are not very good and blame their char...

In Darkfall you need to get good at the game, its not all bout who has the biggest boots.

Getting good in DF only means nailing down all your autohotkey macros, that includes your auto fire rays as soon as you mouse your aim over a red name, or heal when passes over friend.  The pvp and balance is a joke, made even worse by these autohotkey scripts. This game is a utter waste of time as it now stands to put your time into to PVP, as its just one big waste of time.

This is true, but for some reason cuz it wasnt always like that.

Rays didnt use to be instant. In fact, you didnt need even 1 ray to be viable before they made it instant cast. Mix that with the fact that one can be a master of everything. Truth is, to be a master of everything, you need macro/script in order to use everything. For example, with (F) only, i can cycle 4 nukes. With (V), i cycle 4 rays. You see the point. 2.0 will be different tho, since there will be class base on the gears you wear, so you probably wont need a script anymore. I cant wait for 2.0

Ho yeah, not to forgot, in order to be good in DF, you must learn to play with high mouse sensitivity.

About intensify, 50-75... Yeah, you need 75 on almost everything in order to be viable. The girnd from 50-75 is insane. Il tell you my secret, i got from 50-75 while macroing. Its not the only way to get it, but its so fast that you can get from 50-75 in a week on all your offensive spells.

As for intensify, yeah, they dont add much on their own, but there is more then intensify into account. There is almost quicken to cast fast, mana conservation and some other stuff that helps a lot more then intensify alone.

Only a troll would claim you needed intesifies to be pvp viable in Darkfall. 

Originally posted by trashburnin

Only a troll would claim you needed intesifies to be pvp viable in Darkfall. 

Grinding intensify alone is useless. Getting quicken, mana, conservation = magic spam. Thats why DF is so broken.

At this point, all you do is spam magic untill you die. Mana management is too easy for a vet.

You can be very quickly pvp  viable if you go the melee/archery route first.  Even as a mage you can now be very quickly viable since AV allowed players to meditate stats.  Only terrible players think you need every skill at 75 just to be viable in pvp.  Skills help very little in Darkfall.  If you are a competent player and know what to train up you can be killing "veterans" within a week.

{mod edit}

PvP viable is = melee mastery (GS or GA), archery skills (max'd), a bolt, two rays, fireball/magma (knockups), one 100 spell, one blind 

all need to be 75+. This is the base from which all hybrid players start to be viable (destroy/indy min the spells)

quickness needs to be @ 100 and required for destroyer/indy

Can you have fun with less then this? sure. Will you be "viable"? no fucking way. Its about DPS/blinds/knockups in df. The numbers above are a known fact, and if anybody tries to tell you otherwise he is either full of shit (because the game population is so poor) or incredibly uninformed. 

Hey Darkfall players.  How many people are playing your game?  Apparently something is wrong and it's not just the rest of us who are at fault here.  The time for excuses are over, why don't you hold Aventurine responsible for their mistakes instead of bad players?  There are millions of good players, very few of which are interested in Darkfall.  Bottom line.

Originally posted by DAS1337

Hey Darkfall players.  How many people are playing your game?  Apparently something is wrong and it's not just the rest of us who are at fault here.  The time for excuses are over, why don't you hold Aventurine responsible for their mistakes instead of bad players?  There are millions of good players, very few of which are interested in Darkfall.  Bottom line.

Darkfall has no adveritising and retains thousands of subs, your argument is invalid.   Darkfall is supposed to be a niche game.  That is why we say "Darkfall isn't for everyone". Darkfall isn't meant for pussies, that is why we have to hear so much crying about it.

Originally posted by trashburnin

Originally posted by DAS1337

Hey Darkfall players.  How many people are playing your game?  Apparently something is wrong and it's not just the rest of us who are at fault here.  The time for excuses are over, why don't you hold Aventurine responsible for their mistakes instead of bad players?  There are millions of good players, very few of which are interested in Darkfall.  Bottom line.

Darkfall has no adveritising and retains thousands of subs, your argument is invalid.   Darkfall is supposed to be a niche game.  That is why we say "Darkfall isn't for everyone". Darkfall isn't for pussies,  deal with it.

I'm not going to argue.  EVE is niche and they have hundreds of thousands of subscriptions, not just a couple thousand.  Don't sugar coat it, Darkfall has no more than 5,000 active subs.  Your argument makes no sense.  Why do fans seem to be blind of what is going on around them?  Don't like our game?  Leave.  Really, that's what you want?  You want your bad game to die faster because you are unwilling to recognize any flaws that it may have?  You want even less players in your game world than there currently is?  Well, no worries there brother.  It seems that AV wants exactly what you want.  lol..

EVE doesn't have advertising either by the way.

Originally posted by trashburnin

Originally posted by DAS1337

Hey Darkfall players.  How many people are playing your game?  Apparently something is wrong and it's not just the rest of us who are at fault here.  The time for excuses are over, why don't you hold Aventurine responsible for their mistakes instead of bad players?  There are millions of good players, very few of which are interested in Darkfall.  Bottom line.

Darkfall has no adveritising and retains thousands of subs, your argument is invalid.   Darkfall is supposed to be a niche game.  That is why we say "Darkfall isn't for everyone". Darkfall isn't meant for pussies, that is why we have to hear so much crying about it.

Right now I would say DF is starting to die off.

Im still subbed and have played since the day it was released. If AV dont start releasing updates VERY soon DF will DIE.

Problem these days is most players don't know how to enjoy a game from day one they all think first grind my way as fast as i can to end game or lvl cap then i can have fun.

I know players who are grinding for 8 months and where killed and quit becouse they have almost not played the game only macro macro and afk constantly so experience they almost dont have and think they only can play game with mostly all max character well your so wrong about that.

But you can enjoy games from day one, just remove all this bullshit from your mind that you have to be max to even accomplish something becouse thats not true.

I had a new character rolled mahirim on US server and just travelled to alfar lands and seek newbees there i was bind on chaostone and killed several newbees sure i was also killed few times but who cares i had fun i ganked newbees AS A NEWBEE why is that not fun on a free for all full loot server why?

And there are so many more things to have fun with like i also travel all the way to yssam as day one character and sneak around in tolenque or try escape those damn raptors.

I had always fun from day one and never had the urge to rush to endgame or lvlcap.

And i dont macro/afk/exploit or any cheat you can think of i play as it go naturally and honest.

Guys learn two play, learn to have fun again!

OP, whatever maths you provide (this gives only .2, this gives only +1), there is a fact:

A new (1 week, 2 weeks and so on into the game) player has ZERO chance to WIN or even SURVIVE a PVP against a vet.

I am wearing studded leather (that i can gather as a newb) and i am attacked by someone in bone. And some sword i no doubt dont have any money to purchase yet. I hit him like for 3 (THREE) times less than he hits me for (in terms of HP %). He can heal everything i hit him for with one spell. He moves faster than me and has stronger AOE spells. And he has a mount btw. And where do i meet him? In my newbie start location! Where i took some reagents out of the bank to go practice spells on the mobs. Yeah, now i have zero reagents and no spells were leveled up. Thanks, dude.

I tried Darkfall and love this game. I totally love the combat system, i totally love how first mobs can totally own you. I love that you can loose everything when you die, that death has real consequences. I love the PVP, I love the world. Its great. But the problem is - the game population problem screws everything.

Since there is nothing to do in this game for such vets at some times, they go noob hunting. They dont hunt their own kind - they hunt newbies. They know they can kill noobs 100%, with no chance to even flee. They have nothing to do, and THAT is the problem. As a consequence, new players have to constantly loose their resources to "vets". This is anal rape, since there is NOTHING a newbie can do against a vet here, no matter how skilled he is. And i dont want to play a game that makes me endure anal rape for some months until i'm allowed to compete.

I know that griefing in pvp exists in many games, even WoW, and you also die much faster and even 10 of you will never down a highlevel char, but in those games, you dont lose EVERYTHING when you get oneshotted. Here you do.

Once again, i totally love the game and i love the risks, and i love the loot system, but it would only work correctly when there would be something to do for the pros, if they would compete with their own kind. They would never go half a world to pwn a noob if they would have something to do in their own location. But they dont. And so this shit happens.

And no, you can do nothing 1v1 against them until you level up tons of spells. And while leveling those spells, you will be ganked and lose reagents for those spells. No thanks.

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

OP, whatever maths you provide (this gives only .2, this gives only +1), there is a fact:

A new (1 week, 2 weeks and so on into the game) player has ZERO chance to WIN or even SURVIVE a PVP against a vet.

I am wearing studded leather (that i can gather as a newb) and i am attacked by someone in bone. And some sword i no doubt dont have any money to purchase yet. I hit him like for 3 (THREE) times less than he hits me for (in terms of HP %). He can heal everything i hit him for with one spell. He moves faster than me and has stronger AOE spells. And he has a mount btw. And where do i meet him? In my newbie start location! Where i took some reagents out of the bank to go practice spells on the mobs. Yeah, now i have zero reagents and no spells were leveled up. Thanks, dude.

I tried Darkfall and love this game. I totally love the combat system, i totally love how first mobs can totally own you. I love that you can loose everything when you die, that death has real consequences. I love the PVP, I love the world. Its great. But the problem is - the game population problem screws everything.

Since there is nothing to do in this game for such vets at some times, they go noob hunting. They dont hunt their own kind - they hunt newbies. They know they can kill noobs 100%, with no chance to even flee. They have nothing to do, and THAT is the problem. As a consequence, new players have to constantly loose their resources to "vets". This is anal rape, since there is NOTHING a newbie can do against a vet here, no matter how skilled he is. And i dont want to play a game that makes me endure anal rape for some months until i'm allowed to compete.

I know that griefing in pvp exists in many games, even WoW, and you also die much faster and even 10 of you will never down a highlevel char, but in those games, you dont lose EVERYTHING when you get oneshotted. Here you do.

Once again, i totally love the game and i love the risks, and i love the loot system, but it would only work correctly when there would be something to do for the pros, if they would compete with their own kind. They would never go half a world to pwn a noob if they would have something to do in their own location. But they dont. And so this shit happens.

And no, you can do nothing 1v1 against them until you level up tons of spells. And while leveling those spells, you will be ganked and lose reagents for those spells. No thanks.

Just do what the best do.

Buy Gold or a character.

Macro.

Get good cheats

Spend your time ganking.

Seems to be the DF way.